I recently bought a new harman kardon AVR 335, after hearing good things about it from a few friends (sorry, I did not know about this forum until my friend pointed me to it today) - I guess I should have waited. I got a good deal at it online at circuitcity.com and grabbed it for $469.
Though it sounded okay, it did not seem to be very very deep for music. My friend owns a Denon 685 and we share the same taste in music (semi-classical type) and the same music sounds so much better, deep and I guess the word is "enveloping" on his system. I used the automatic setup to set it up with the RMS 6900 speakers I picked up at a local store (my friend has same set of speakers).
Wondering if Denon is a better choice, or have I not setup the 335 properly yet. Any tips?
HK should have a slight edge in SQ over Denon, one of its problems though is a fairly Byzantine user interface. You'll probably need to reread the users manual several times.
Also the other key point is what speakers your friend has. If his are better than yours that might be the main reason his system sounds so much better.
The learning curve is much higher on an HK than most others in its class. You have to study up to use an HK receiver effectively/optimally relative to the more straight forward controls on typical Denons/Onkyos/Pick-a-guy.
just trying
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Have you tried pressing the "tone-out" button while listening to music? This bypasses the treble/bass controls which could help. I also noticed that the H/K's seem to really shine when they get warm. Basically I mean they work best cranked up. I did not trust the ez-set speaker calibration either. You may want to adjust the speaker levels by ear or buy a good spl meter. If you have a surround setup the Logic 7 music mode will provide very enveloping sound granted your speakers levels are set equally. Good luck with it.
Ed, when you say HK should have a slight edge over Denon, do you mean becuase of power ratings, or because of better (D/A & DSP)?
The bad news is that the ez-set speaker calibration messed up. The good news is that after I setup the things by myself and fine tuned it, to suite my ears, I loved what I heard. I could hear the same clear, transparent music and each and every instrument, just like I remember hearing in Denon (to be honest, I have forgotten what Denon sounded like exactly, so I would not be able to make a fair comparison immediately). I'll spend next few days rewiring my speakers to Denon and comparing the two. Will keep you guys posted.
Thanks a lot everyone, for being with me. I see that a lot of similar questions get asked here and you all are always willing to go through the same process of explaining and comparing - patiently. Thanks once again.
I have no idea why HKs sound the way they do, though yest they are known to be more conservative in their power ratings than Denon...an HK listed at 50wpc is likely to produce 75wpc before clipping, whereas a Denon listed at 100wpc might actually only go up to 70wpc before clipping. I did recently find that HKs do have a bit of a built-in hum/hiss at moderate volume, probably because I have gotten used to my digital Panny having zero hiss/hum/distortion at ANY volume level.
just trying
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I told ya' that ez-set was crap. If I went by my ez-set's auto calibration my front's would be at +10 and my surrounds would be at +0, hehe, frikking thing set it up bass akwards. Well, I set it up with my surrounds only being +1 over my mains and now it's seemless.
As I've said before my HK AVR335 is completely silent when powered on but idle. Absolutely not even the faintest hiss coming through the speakers. If anyone purchases a receiver with this problem, first try some AC line conditioning and check for ground loops. If these methods don't resolve a hiss/hum issue,then return the receiver as it is probably defective.
I did recently find that HKs do have a bit of a built-in hum/hiss at moderate volume, probably because I have gotten used to my digital Panny having zero hiss/hum/distortion at ANY volume level.
Do you insinuate that all the HK's have the hiss or possibly just a few or perhaps solely one? How many did you audition at Fry's this time? Lol
Misleading citizens again aren't we?
Edster, possibly you heard the hiss because the HK was driving some Polks? You know how bright they sound don't you? ROTFL
Vader, having owned HK products for nearly a decade and having only one with with a minor problem I fail to understand these new quality,hiss/hum, difficult to use HK issues lately on this forum that seem to appear only recently. Personally, I find the HK's to be one of the easiest to set up and adjust. Every function and adjustment is available through the remote,and nearly all can be adjusted on the front panel as well and is displayed on the front panel with a fairly large alphanumeric blue display. To me the Denons seem much more difficult to set up and adjust with their multitude of tiny buttons and hidden macros only accessable by first pressing several buttons to get to the one function you wanted in the first place.
Eric, I totally agree with you, I was merely trying to convey a message to edser that you cannot generalize just because you have heard a faulty unit. I have owned some HK's myself and have been happy with them both Multi-channel and stereo. Hey, every manufacturer has its own flaws no question about it but it is not fair make such a raw statement, that is my point, nothing more nothing less.
really my boy, are you keeping up with your meds lately?
I have said elsewhere that it was not ONE h.k. receiver I heard that had this hum/hiss but every single one in that store...the 135, 235, 335, 435 and 635.
And don't pull out some lame excuse about their speaker selector causing this, because none of their Yamahas, Onkyos, or Pioneers had the same problem.
As for the Polks being bright, that's about the one half-accurate thing you've posted around here during your recent graduation from longtime "anonymous" poster to "Vader"---unfortunately it's another spectacular failure on your part since I was switching between different speakers as well as different receivers.
sheesh, Vader if you want to play the forum "expert" charade like some of the other Pannyphobes, at least try to grow half a brain first.
i have no hiss or hum from mine. also back to the original question, have you got your night time feature turned on. if you have turn it off it keeps your music/ movies from waking up people who may be sleeping.it would make a huge difference.
Hee hee hee, besides being a persistent moron with obvious signs of severe brain damage, you also have a lousy memory...probably too much glue sniffing from the sounds of it.
You are easily recognizable by your snide references to my listening to gear at Fry's...LOL were you born this thick or have you been working at it?
Vader you are the exact same chump who was doing all that queerr-baiting/bashing of Andy Summers the former film projectionist who used to post all the time around here. Your petty and loathesome personality comes out loud and clear, despite your recent adoption of this "Vader" name since the "anonymous" tag kept getting impersonated by others.
Even your choice of "edster little toy" fits your deeply repressed homosexuall tendencies which you used to take out on Andy.
> Edster's just dyslexic, delusional, and hasn't been taking his meds lately.
Kano at least learn to use your own adjectives. I own the trademark to "dyslexic" on this forum because I've used it many a time on you and a few of your P.E.C. co-idiots.
ah well what can one expect, Kano is a lame-o writ large and to the bone, tee hee.
LOL, one of your trademarks while you were an "anonymous" poster was your complete lack of originality, i.e. you are incapable of doing anything except copying the other person's words and expressions. Too bad you're too thick to know how to mask it, just like you were too thick to realize that your remarks about Fry's would be a dead giveaway.
my boy, you are starting to bore me.
Vader, why don't you start studying Nuck's postings to me? Maybe a little bit of his originality might actually rub off on you for a change. Try not to be so DULL, for Chrissakes.
Okay folks. I spent the weekend testing both, going back and forth between HK 335 and Denon 1705 (got one of those too) with my Polk Audio Monitor series speakers at home. I listened to same songs (one each of Rock, Instrumental (piano), Classical, Blues and Jazz) on both and compared on both.
For all of these above categories, Denon sounded far far better, lively, richer and "warm" (as I said, I am not an audiophile, but have learnt some terms on this forum ;-)). There were some notes that seemed to be missing absolutely on HK. Listening to same song in exactly the same room on both receivers revealed excellent details on Denon.
I also agree with everyone who said that HK power ratings are conservative. The difference is apparent at very high volumes (not typical for my home - I have a very small living room).
May be it was my speakers, but I fell in love with Denon. I was kind of disappointed though. HK has much better connectivity and definitely looks more handsome than Denon and I would have loved to keep it with me. But sound quality wise, I found Denon to pair very well with my Polk Audio.
just trying
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Well I am glad you are satisfied with your decision. You made the right choice by trusting your ears. Sorry to see your thread got so high jacked by the little boys.
I'm also glad you made a decision and were able to avoid the horseplay that ruins many threads on this forum. I would also like to add that I've heard both the Denons and HK's, low models to high models through Polks of several types,and other speakers and prefered the HK for a low to mid-level receiver. To me the lower end Denons, sounded like so many other receivers in sub $500 range. There was an over emphasis in the treble range which some people find more pleasing, as this is often mistaken for greater detail. The HK even the lower end models seem more neutral, "transparent" in their presentation through the Polk's and even other speakers. This is the sound I prefer,since the material is presented truer to it's recording. The middle to upper end Denons, 2105 and up were excellent however, and gave the same ranks of HK stiff competition.
Thanks, everyone! But I wonder if I am missing something (some setup in HK) after reading Eric's comment. I, in fact found the exact opposite - I found HK to have more treble and Denon to be more neutral (or slightly warm, if you will). I am just trying to give both Denon as well as HK a fair chance. I am reay to try all possible setups for testing.
Also, I forgot to mention that I sampled music in 5.1 channel stereo mode, for both receivers. When playing from a digital input (say an audio CD), does playing in 5.1 channel mode involve DSP, or is it just D/A.
Personally I like the HK's better than the Denons until you get to the higher end of their lines. I find the HK's more closely resemble high end gear relative to the quality of their sound. I like Marantz AVR's better than Denon and would choose either HK or Marantz over Denon. Keep listening until you are sure.
"Also, I forgot to mention that I sampled music in 5.1 channel stereo mode, for both receivers. When playing from a digital input (say an audio CD), does playing in 5.1 channel mode involve DSP, or is it just D/A."
I prefer the HK's DSPs for tv watching, always the Logic 7 though. With music I always use Surround off, although if you want a 5.1 presentation the Logic 7 Music DSP is quite good.
Best performance will come through the 6 channel direct connection hooked into a CD player. I use a Denon DVD/CD and the sound improvement is considerable between the CD and 6 CH Direct mode on my HK AVR430.
You may just prefer the Denon's 5 channel DSP to HK's, in a lot of applications I prefer some of Yamaha's DSPs, but it's sure not a good indication of the overall sound presentation, just a segment of it.
