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Axiom M60ti system...

 

New member
Username: Aogemini

Pasco, Washington Usa

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-05
I am planning to buy 2 Axiom M60ti as my front L/R channel speakers, 1 Axiom VP100 or 1 Axiom VP150 center channel speaker, 2 more Axiom M60ti as my surround L/R channel speakers, and 1 Axiom EP350 subwoofer. Can someone give me 2 or 3 recommendation on what to buy for my A/V receiver?...need brand and model #.

Thanks.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Xsound

Myrtle Beach, SC United States

Post Number: 39
Registered: Sep-04
What size room? What ratio of movies to music? What musical tastes? What receiver do you have now? What dvd and/or cd palyer? What features do you think are importantt on your receiver?

Answering some of these questions will help people give more informed opinions.

x
 

New member
Username: Aogemini

Pasco, Washington Usa

Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-05
X - Thanks for reading my request!

Currently, the family room size is 1225 cubic feet (17.5' W x 8.75' L x 8' H) for the immediate listening area. However, since the family room is opened to the kitchen, then the room size changes to (17.5' W x 16' L x 8' H) or 2240 cubic feet.

I watch more movies than music. The movies that I prefer are action and science fiction. The music that I prefer are techno, 80's new wave, heavy meatal, Seattle style grunge music, and vew few rap/hip hop music.

I currently do not have an A/V receiver. I would like to buy all my audio/video components in 3 stages:
First stage: A/V receiver and power conditioner (Monster Power HTS 5100). Second stage: Speaker system as desribed above and "quality" speaker cables (unsure yet on what kind of speaker cables). Final stage: Buy a new TV/Audio rack that would accommodate all of the system from the 1st and 2nd stage and a new TV - Panasonic 42" TH42PX25U HDTV Plasma or Hitachi 42" 42HDT51 HDTV Plasma.

My overall budget is less than $14,000 US dollars.

The Panasonic single DVD player that I have was purchased from Costco and it can also play CD and MP3. When I bought it 3 years ago, it cost ~$150. I do not know the exact power and capabilities of it. I'll do some more research on it when I get home. My guess is that it is an average quality of DVD player or maybe even slightly below average quality...it's all relative on which system you compare it with.

The important features that I would like to have are as follows:
- The ability to play a 7.1 system.
- THX Select or THX Ultra or THX Ultra 2 capability.
- The usual Dolby ProLogic and Prologic II.
- Bass Management so that I can play video on one channel and stereo on another channel.
- The capability and reliability of a receiver to sustain high wattage rating for a continuous period of time (i.e. watching back-to-back NFL games on Sunday which totals to ~7 hours of run time) without overheating or saturating the system.
- Another option that I would like instead of the Axiom speakers that I initially described above is an option to operate 2 Axiom M80ti as front L/R channel speakers rated at 400 watts per channel @ 4 ohm impedance, 1 VP150 center channel speaker rated at 400 watts @ 4 ohm impedance, and 2 M60ti as surround L/R speakers rated at 250 watts per channel @ 8 ohm impedance.
- It is prefered but not a requirement that the A/V receiver can take fiber optic cable. From what I've read so far, some A/V receiver do not take fiber optic cable.

I hope that all of the above information is enough to give you some information.
 

edster922
Unregistered guest
The cheapest THX receiver is the Pioneer 1014 ($382 shipped from dbuys.com) which is known as a giant-killer and should be more than adequate esp. if you do more movies than music.

Next up would be the Onkyo 801, $600 shipped from onecall.com and it has an Ethernet connection which is really nifty.

Power conditioner: I'd look at any brand besides Monster which is like the Bose of electronics accessories---mostly hype and overpriced for mediocre quality, you can get better for less.

Your DVD player, esp. if you're not picky about music quality, is where I'd spend the least money. Almost any major name brand with progressive scan from $50-150 is fine.

Correction: the cables and interconnects are where I'd spend the least money. Almost any old 12-gauge speaker cable is fine, same with component cables/interconnects---don't get sucked into buying fancy schmancy boutique cables/wiring that don't do anything noticeably except lighten your wallet.

Where I'd put most of my money would be the plasma TV, the speakers, subwoofer ($400-700), and receiver.

Since you're looking at Axioms you might also want to check out Ascend Acoustics speakers, these are a little less but IMHO sound better---the Axioms are a bit too bright. The only disadvantage of the Ascends is that their CBM-170s are not very attractive-looking though they sound great as do the larger CMT-340s. They have a cool System Advisor page which shows the kind of package discounts you can get when you get the whole setup esp. with a Hsu subwoofer.

Good luck, I wish I had $14K to spend too! : )
 

Bronze Member
Username: Xsound

Myrtle Beach, SC United States

Post Number: 40
Registered: Sep-04
Art,
It sounds like the Axiom system will meet your needs pretty well. I have not been able to audition them myself, but they are on my short list for my speaker upgrade (which will begin in the next month). You budget is pretty generous, and should allow you a great deal of flexibility in purchasing.

www.audioholics.com has a section called recommended systems where they set-up whole systems in certain price ranges. The system that they have for $12K is very movie oriented, though I don't know if it would work for you because it is based on a projector and screen instead of a television (perhaps too much light from the kitchen, and any windows present).

There are a number of a/v receivers that will meet the first 3 requirements pretty well. The bass management gets pretty tricky, and when you add the possibility of throwing the M80s as fronts and the M60s as rears, you are asking a great deal from a receiver. Not sure what you want the fiber optic connection for (toslink is a fiber optic connection)?

About the 4ohm speakers. I have seen over and over people strongly reccommend NAD to drive 4 ohm loads. Most of the main stream receivers are rated at 8 or even 6 ohm loads. the manufacturers will most of the time tell you not to drive a 4 ohm load with it. I know that many people do. It probably won't hurt, but you pays your money, you takes your chances! You may want to consider looking at seperates - a pre-amp processor (pre-pro) and a power amp. Most of the power amps that would fit in your budget will drive a 4 ohm load with no problem.

About receivers. Probably the big 4, as far as most readily available, are Yamaha (rx-v2500 thx-select), Denon (3805 no thx or even 4806 thx I believe), Harmon Kardon (635, or 7300 niether is thx), and Pioneer Elite (VSX-56txi thx select, and possible the VSX-59txi thx ultra). Five if you includ the Onkyo products (they are thx) -- ooops sorry forgot. The H/K seems to have the most extensive bass management options.

Yamaha seems to have the greatest number of DSP fields, and they have been doing DSP longer than just about anyone. The Denon seems to have great press, connectivity, and some cool features like the nifty remote, and the ability to run 3 zones.

I compared the Yammie, Denon, H/K, and the Elite. I chose the Elite. The 56 has both i-link/firewire and USB connections. The power supply weighs over 16 pounds! that is pretty huge for a receiver in this price point. It has plenty of power. The amp section uses mosfets which in my experience don't give out when the power demands get huge. I really believe that this receiver would drive a 4 ohm load without breaking a sweat, even though it is not rated for it. My current fronts are 6 ohm 86 db speakers which means that they are not incredibly efficient, and they present some pretty low loads. I could shut-down my old Onkyo receiver, if I played loud enough and hard enough. Not with my elite (I had to go with the vsx-54 as I couldn't afford the 56).

As a generalization, people typically refer to mosfet amps as warm, almost tube-like in their sound. This makes them a good match for speakers that tend to be "detailed", "Clear", or even "bright". The 56 doesn't have as many component inputs as the Denon unit, but you are getting firewire and usb. The advantage to firewire is the ability to hook up for SACD adn DVD-a play with only 1 cable instead of 6.

With your budget, you will have a great system. There are plenty of knowlegeable people on this site to help you in making a choice. While I highly recommend the Pioneer Elites, with the cash you are talking about investing, I would seriously look at separates. You may not get as many processing features, but you will get the power. You could even look at a less expensive receiver to serve as pre-pro and get a kicking power amp.

Enjoy
X
 

New member
Username: Aogemini

Pasco, Washington Usa

Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-05
Edster922 and X - Thanks for your continued input.

Edster922 - Is the Pioneer 1014 and Onkyo 801 capable of driving 4 ohm impedance? If Onkyo is capable, then I might consider Integra DTR-6.5 since it is the higher end audio of Onkyo.

APC is another option I have in mind in addition to Monster Power. They have comparable line of power conditioners that would rival or better Monster Power. Do you have a particular brand and model # in mind that you can recommend?

I have not done any research on Ascend Acoustics speakers. I'll see what I can find...For a while, I have also considered Def Tech's BP30s and CLR2000 but the absence of magnetic shielding and the fact that they are 1996 technology altered my decision.

The subwoofer that I have in mind is Onix Rocket UFW-10 or SV Subwoofers PC Plus line up.

X - A front projector TV is not an option due to excess light and setup configuration in my room.

Fiber optic will should give me the best signal on video and audio components especially when compared to Analog. Fiber optic option is not very high on my list...

I have read little about NAD T7773 and NAD T763. I'll certainly take a closer look at these products.

I've heard good things about Yamaha's RX-V2500. I am also considering JVC RX-DP15 or JVC RX-DP20V. I've been disappointed about not getting any feedback from JVC about my technical inquiries.

Thanks again,
Art
 

Bronze Member
Username: Xsound

Myrtle Beach, SC United States

Post Number: 41
Registered: Sep-04
In regards to the Onkyo Integra thing, several posts that I have seen on this and other boards indicate that there is less difference between the 2 lines than there used to be. If it comes down to it, I am not sure that (for me) the Integra is worth the dollar difference.

I figured the lighting in the room would probably make that choice unsuitable, but the site is still interesting, and the other systems will more options to consider.

About the Fiber Optic connection, my 54 has both a toslink (which is a fiber optic connection) and a digital rca connection. My research from on-line sources indicate that toslink is not necessarily a better choice than a 75ohm shielded digital rca cable. Sometimes the fitting on toslink can be problematic, and a kink in the cable can affect the signal.


 

New member
Username: Aogemini

Pasco, Washington Usa

Post Number: 4
Registered: Mar-05
X - I pulled up some info about NAD T773 receiver and yes, it was impressive to see that it can drive 4 ohm @ 320 watts per channel with reserve power of 390 watts @ 2 ohms!

Thanks for the advice.

It's somewhat true that there are little difference between Onkyo and Integra when it comes to their features. I have found that a comparable Integra has a few more inputs and features. What intrigue me is that Integra carries a 3 year warranty and a 60-day money back guarantee from date of purchase if you are not satisfied. Onkyo does not carry the 60-day return policy and they only have 1 year warranty. Regardless, knowing that the NAD suits my needs. I may ended up buying NAD. I'll wait and see what JVC has to say on their receivers that I initially inquired about...
 

New member
Username: Aogemini

Pasco, Washington Usa

Post Number: 5
Registered: Mar-05
X - The other thing that I noticed about the NAD T773 and NAD T763 is that they do not have the THX feature (bummer)!!! I don't think I'm willing to sacrifice the THX feature. I definitely would like to have that feature. If that is the case, what is my alternative? Should I purchase a separate amplifier rated at 4 ohms and then buy a the A/V receiver that has the THX feature. Am I thinking correctly? I think that this is what you were suggesting on your previous email (March 7).
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 255
Registered: Jan-05
I woudnt get too hung up on THX. Keep in mind that it isnt so much of a feature as it is a 'rubber stamp' of approval that is probably bought and paid for by a manufacturer.

Definitely a great marketing gimmick though because it effects buying decisions.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 256
Registered: Jan-05
The second thing is that I would highly recommend listening to speakers before buying. I couldnt imagine spending the smallest amount on speakers based on a leap of faith(return policy or not).

The web-manufacturers are smart though and know that because of human nature, customers will settle with whatever they get. People just want to be finished with the buying process, even if they arent completely satisfied. I mean, c'mon, how disappointing would that be to box up those new speakers, and ship back to the manufacturer while going speakerless until you decide what you will do for 'plan-b'? The point is that people "SETTLE" when internet shopping. How on earth can they even know if they are satisfied if they havnt even taken the time to 'test drive' several different models???

Chances are that if you buy in person, you'll find something that better fits your personal preferences. If you buy on the web, you'll more than likely 'settle' for whatever arrives in the mail.

I would never, ever....ever buy speakers on a leap of faith. Keep in mind you're talking about the most important piece of your sound system.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Xsound

Myrtle Beach, SC United States

Post Number: 43
Registered: Sep-04
Art,
Some people use an a/v receiver as their pre-amp processor, because there tend to be more bells and whistles on the mid to hi-end av receivers than the entry level dedicated pre-amps. This way you get the gutsy power from a dedicated power amp, and all the bells and whistles of the receiver. I must confess that I cannot comment from first hand experience on this set-up, but some find this the best of both worlds.

Paul has some good points. THX, as I understand it, consists primarily of performance standards that equipment must pass to carry the badge. There are many products out there, like the NAD receivers, that would pass the standards, but choose not to apply for the certification, HOWEVER, THX also includes some post-processing on movies designed to compensate for certain sound eq's that are peculiar to movie theaters and not present in the home. This includes the speaker design and the commercial theater lay-out. Only you can decide whether this is important to you. Some will tell you anything from it is a scam, to it's nice but unnecessary, few will tell you it is make or break. For me it was important, for several reasons. When it came down to it and I was comparing similar receivers, I liked them all, THX then came into the pro column and helped to weight my decision.

While Paul is correct about getting a product into someone's home greatly increasing the chance they will keep it, demoing speakers in a shop has never been close to the same as a home demo. You can tell somethings about a speaker in a shop, but in the end it's not a real world scenario. You lose some money in shipping with teh Axioms, but for me it's not enough to totally discount online direct sales. There is a huge amount of positive press for several of the on-line companies.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 267
Registered: Jan-05
I agree that some of the internet brands get nice reviews and look good on paper, but to me, I'd rather demo in the imperfect world of the 'sound-room' than not demo at all.

Lets face it, buying internet brand speakers is not a home demo......it's buying on a leap of faith, with the option to renig.

After waiting anxiously with building anticipation for your new arrival, and finally getting them into your home and hooking them up,(running wiring...etc, etc) they're not going anywhere regardless of how bad they sound.

yea, I know they have the 30 day return policy, but in reality, it's buying on a leap of faith because the manufacturers know that once everybody goes through all that excitement of finally getting the product in their home, and finally getting them hooked up after much anticipation, and finally run those wires, it would be a huge disappointment for the customer to send them back. The manufacturer realizes that the customer would rather lie to themselves to convince themselves in their 'heart of hearts' that they made a great buying decision............ rather than assume the disappointment and hassle of starting over from scratch and sending everything back.
Its human nature........

Heck, why not pick your entire system off the web and not listen to any of it? Just order based on specs and what other people say??? Any respectable dealer will allow you to return products if you arent satisfied. Why listen to or 'test drive' any of it?

What really leaves me scratching my head is the audiophile who over-critiques the sound qualities while comparing two receivers in the same class, and elaborates extensively on the finer details of the sound qualities of various speakerwire models, is the exact same audiophile who buys speakers over the internet based on a piece of paper. How can they be so critical about speakerwire 'sound' in one breath, and then order internet-speakers in another.

Whoah.....:scratching head:

I would never do that......
 

edster922
Unregistered guest
> Lets face it, buying internet brand speakers is not a home demo......it's buying on a leap of faith, with the option to renig. After waiting anxiously with building anticipation for your new arrival, and finally getting them into your home and hooking them up,(running wiring...etc, etc) they're not going anywhere regardless of how bad they sound.

LOL...by THAT leap of "logic," you should never even "test-buy" audio equipment from Best Buy because who knows, after the whole excitement and exhaustion of the local brick and mortar shopping experience you will probably be too darn lazy to drive back to the store and return it if it sounds like crap.

In fact, with that kind of hyper-cautionary mindset, you shouldn't even GO to a brick and mortar store because who knows, by the time the sales guy has gone through his spiel with you and lets you audition all his equipment in-store, you'll find yourself feeling so hopelessly in awe and indebted towards him that there's NO WAY you'll ever be able to walk out of there without buying SOMETHING from him...so ha ha ha, go to a local shop and prepare to leave a big hunk of cash there because you can't help it, why nobody can resist THAT EVIL SALES CHARM! (theme music to "Jaws" in background)

On a more serious note: X-sound is dead-on in saying that demoing speakers in a sound-room with accoustic characteristics totally unlike that of your own listening room---while using the dealer's amp/reciever and CD player that is most likely not what you have at home---is of limited use at best. All it can really do is allow you to compare different models and brands of speakers that the DEALER happens to have hooked up to a switching system...for instance one dealer I went to had several Paradigm and Klipsch speakers he switched back and forth between, which allowed me to conclude that I much prefer the sound of a "warm" speaker like the Paradigm than that of a "bright" speaker like the Klipsch.

I live in the 4th largest city in the US and was able to find only one dealer who would consider letting me do a "home demo" of his speakers---but only the floor models. The rest (excluding big-box stores like Best Buy which tended to carry crappy stuff anyway) would only allow a return for refund with at least a 10% restocking fee...they don't want to be stuck with a bunch of open-box items they have to re-sell for less profit!

I certainly don't recommend buying online WITHOUT first doing some legwork and listening to stuff locally to get a feel for what TYPE OF SOUND you like or don't like, and getting a feel for type of sound a certain brand or model of receiver/speaker/etc. delivers. However buying online, whether going manufacturer direct or through a reputable Internet reseller, is the way to go unless you're on an unlimited budget or are looking at something that has very strictly limited distribution such as Mcintosh amps.

And I will concede that yes, if you have the willpower and intelligence of a 6 year old then it might really be waaaaaay too much of a challenge for you to pay $25-30 to ship back some Internet speakers or receiver that you don't like for a full refund. In which case, I'd recommend putting your money in a good therapist rather than good audio.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 276
Registered: Jan-05
The perfect movie(if the shoe fits).

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104695/

$25?? LOL...Did your entire set weigh only 10lbs? I bet those 'dainty' speakers sound really nice.

If you buy speakers 'sight unseen'........more power to ya for your courage. Anyone who claims to be an audiophile and buys speakers over the internet without listening to them first, is kidding himself. Personally, I dont like any of the sets on the market today in the moderate price range. The 'dainty' setups of todays market turn my stomach. I like some of the center and surround packages, but the front/sub combos are weak and uninspiring.
 

New member
Username: Aogemini

Pasco, Washington Usa

Post Number: 6
Registered: Mar-05
To All -

If there is one thing I did not like about Axiom, it's the fact that they do not have any authorized dealer in the US. Consumers are forced to buy directly to them based on the spec sheet that the company has provided and in turn it is a leap of faith (or is it leap of logic).

To ship back the entire set of Axiom speakers back to Canada will cost more than $30 from Washington State!

I agree with all of your recommendations of trying to listen to an audio system prior to purchasing. Some speakers are "brighter" or "warmer" than others which makes the audio selection system based entirely on subjective reasoning/preference.

Paul - I've seen the movie Leap of Faith by Steve Martin (LOL).

X - I have tested several brands of A/V receivers (i.e Onkyo 901, Denon 3805, and Yamaha) but no one within 150 miles from my area carries NAD.

Bottom line, I still have plenty of time to finalize my decision and I do have other speaker options in case Axiom is not for me. I have listened to Paradigm Monitor 9 Series (version 4), Infinity BETA 50 series, Def Tech's BP2002TL Super Towers with SuperCube Reference Subwoofer, etc. My "leaf of faith" with Axiom are based on the cost of their M80ti (Epic 80) series as compared to other manufacturer's, the amount of drivers that I get for the amount that I pay, and their 30-day money back guarantee (less S/H).
 

Bronze Member
Username: Xsound

Myrtle Beach, SC United States

Post Number: 44
Registered: Sep-04
My receiver, purchased off the internet, was shipped to me for $27 dollars. It weighs 40 lbs. Obviously shipping weight would have been more. Not everyone gouges on shipping.

Not everyone lives in a golden triangle of audio where exclusive shops sell esoteric equipment. In fact some of us live in veritable audio wastelands where locals consider the recenly opened Best Buy to be high end. Sometimes the internet and a good return policy are the wisest use of time and money. 6 hours roundtrip travel time, gas mileage, time away from money making endeavors. These add up to cost not only $ but other costs as well.

I do find it interesting that you would offer an opinion about something that "turns your stomach" when your posts would lead one to believe that you have never auditioned a set of speakers from and on-line direct sales company like Axiom, Onix, etc. You talk down to those who would audtion them to see whether they are a worthy buy, yet you dismiss them as weak and uninspiring without ever really listening to them. You wrote, "the exact same audiophile who buys speakers over the internet based on a piece of paper," your posts seem to indicate that you are dismissing speakers based on a method of sales and a photo, even in opposition to what you acknowledge is positive press.

While you obvioulsy have a golden ear and the deep pockets to match, some of us scrape and struggle to be able to buy the best bang for the buck that we can afford. Right now for many "moderate price range" is a stretch, but one we are willing to strive for. Some of the on-line manufacturers like Axiom may offer a performance/price ratio that exceeds what we can find in mid-range audio shops.


enjoy
x
 

Anonymous
 
There are a lot of good products on the market. Usually each has strengths and weaknesses, also known as differences. Being in a store comparing one product against another can under the right circumstances emphasize those differences when compared against the other by switching back and forth through the same hook ups although through many adjustments you can probably make some things sound similar to others. Differences in volume can make a difference also. Most people trying an internet product at home will just be listening to that one unless you order several of the same items from different companies and they are all there for the same 30 day trial period. When you are not doing an actual physical comparison against other of the same against each other it is easier to be happier with what you are hearing because you might not notice some things without hearing differences. Yes you would know if it was excessively bright or warm for your taste or if it clashed with your other equipment but without a direct comparison you might not realize some subtle things. I always hear people make comments about what they hear and pros even find fault with mega bucks equipment. Nobody has a built in graph that automatically compares sound they are hearing to what it should sound like if perfect or a live performance. Some people due to hearing can be missing certain frequencies also. You are stating what you perceive you are hearing and that is why opinions vary from person to person. The more finicky your hearing is the more money you need to spend to be satisfied. Have you all heard of the nth degree. Basically it comes down to what you think you are hearing whether you are actually hearing what you think you are or not. Don!t get caught up in price points or what someone else likes or has good comments about. Listen to and find what sounds good to you that you can afford and that has the features you like and when you do that just relax and enjoy. You can put a system together for a reasonable amount of money and have it sound good. If you start to try to analyze everything you are hearing it will take away from the enjoyment. You want to be able to listen to the music and enjoy without analyzing everything you are hearing.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 281
Registered: Jan-05
X,
I can appreciate what you're saying if you live in an area where there arent any good retailers. I guess Im lucky, because I live in a city where I have several retailers to choose from within the Metro. In fact, my favorite one(ultimate electronics)is only about 5 minutes away:-)

As for turning my stomach, I was referring to every front/sub combo that I've auditioned. It's not that they dont sound good, but rather they dont deliver the desired soundstage. Many sounded quite good, but lacked in delivering the desired experience.

The only reason I spoke critical about some of those who take the 'leap of faith' is because I have noticed a few 'alleged audiophile experts' go on..and on..and on...about auditioning several sets of speakerwire to discuss their varying sound qualities, way over analyse DVD players, and heavily critique dozens of recievers, and then they take a 'leap of faith' with the most important piece of the sound system and talk about how they bought internet brand speakers.

To me, it strikes me as pretty funny, dont you think?? And NO...I am not directing the comment to anybody specifically in this thread, but rather as a general comment based on some comments that I have read in various threads on this forum.

As for me personally.........YES, I do dismiss entire brands because of their method of sale. Guilty as charged!! I will not even remotely consider a speaker that I cant audition first. I guess Im lucky because I live in an area where I can audition speakers without the inconvenience of travel.

As for my golden ear??.......LOL
If anything, I am(by definition)an anti-audiophile because I dont like the new speakers front/subs selling on todays market. I do like the various center and surrounds though.

You do realize that my fronts are Cerwin Vegas, dont you?? Anyone who prefers a 20 year old set of cerwin vega D-9 fronts over a $3500/front/sub sombo is anything "BUT" a music snob as you suggest. If my speakers were to die, the first speaker I would give a soundtest would be the new Classic CLSC-215. Hardly speakers for the music snob with refined listening habits.

My HT system details are listed on my profile, and you're free to see what I have. My sound system is hardly the 'music snob' material, and it shows how my sound tastes differ from the norm on this forum. I'd also like to note that I virtually never use my system for music, and nearly exclusively as a HT. If I do play music, more than likely I'll be blasting some LedZep, ACDC or something more fitting to my speaker design.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 282
Registered: Jan-05
Anonymous,

All great points!! I couldnt have said it better!!
 

edster922
Unregistered guest
> $25?? LOL...Did your entire set weigh only 10lbs? I bet those 'dainty' speakers sound really nice.

LOL...your propensity to babble on and on without ever doing one iota of research is truly hilarious.

FYI...Ascend charges $22 for shipping a pair of their larger 340 mini-towers (51 lbs), which UPS charges $35 for return shipping according to their website. Still a whole lot less than a 15% restocking fee on say a $900 pair of speakers.

So let's see, this so-called "leap of faith" might result in a quick drive to a UPS store plus $35 return shipping in exchange for an in-home audition up to 30 days (even the one dealer I found who allowed in-home auditions on his floor models would only do 7 days) during which time you can either take the Internet speakers into a store or take other speakers home to listen to them side by side.

My local dealer actually allowed me to bring the Ascends in and compare them to his stuff---and these $560 (shipped) monitors did very well against Triangle, Klipsch, PSB and Monitor Audio speakers until well past the $1300 range. Nothing he had under $1000 even came close.

> Personally, I dont like any of the sets on the market today in the moderate price range. The 'dainty' setups of todays market turn my stomach.

Well if you have very expensive tastes and can afford them then more power to you. I hope your expensive tastes grow out of your possessing genuine audiophile eardrums, not just the typical run of the mill ego-tripping as is the case for the majority of high-end purchasers.

But to act as if putting some speakers back in the box and dropping them off at a UPS station is some huge big deal...geez, if that to you requires too much "courage" or trouble then frankly I wonder how you manage to tie your shoes every morning.

> I like some of the center and surround packages, but the front/sub combos are weak and uninspiring.

Personally, I'd much prefer to have surrounds were it not for certain WAF issues, but that's a whole other thread. Never found a pair of front speakers that could match the speed and depth of bass of a good sub paired with good fronts---though I freely admit I've never listened to your legendary Cerwin Vegas, who knows they could be the 8th wonder of the world...
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 284
Registered: Jan-05
Ed,

I dont have expensive tastes. You're missing the whole point of my previous post.

If anything, I must be an anti-audiophile because I dont like the more expensive front/sub combos selling today, and I prefer the soundstage of my old $700/pair behemoth fronts better than drastically more expensive front/sub combos. In my opinion, it would actually be a downgrade if I changed over to the more expensive speakers selling in todays marketplace.

Is it egotripping that I admit to liking a 20 year old set of inexpensive speakers better than the pricy speakers being sold today?? I think it's quite the opposite. Im not saying the new fronts/subs sound bad, but rather I dont like the smaller soundstage they create.

The only reason Im talking about it is because Im disappointed that you cant find reasonably priced large speakers anymore. IMO, the classic big speakers are gone moreso because of profit margin reasons than anything else. It's the same way with everything these days.....geez...just look what they're charging for 'alleged' space age cables and plain copper speaker wire soaked in snake oil(not to mention the botique wire)!!!! It's the same thing with speakers!!!! A big ripoff for the almighty dollar!!

To further clarify....the reason you no longer see $1,000/pair of Cerwin Vega style speakers in stores is because retailers make a whole lot more $$$$ by selling a comperably priced botique front/sub combo instead.

Plus, geez.....Just imagine how bad the $1500/pair of 'botique' speakers would look if they were on display sitting directly next to a less expensive behemoth??? The cheaper behemoth would blow the more expensive speaker/sub combo away, and the retailer wouldnt be able to sell any of their more expensive models.
 

Railbait_here
Unregistered guest
FWIW, you can look on the Axiom messageboard to see if there are people in your area who will let you audition their speakers in their home. The people who own them are very passionate about them. I am considering the M60's to go with my NAD.

Railbait
 

New member
Username: Aogemini

Pasco, Washington Usa

Post Number: 7
Registered: Mar-05
Railbait - I did look at the Message Board but I didn't really found any substantial information.
 

Railbait_here
Unregistered guest
This link may help;

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=first&Number=76567&page =0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

There is someone in WA, but I don't know how close to you.
 

edster922
Unregistered guest
Paul,

You know, I very much respect people who buck the trend and follow their own path---as long as they're not being different ONLY for the sake of being different, in which case I don't know what's worse, mindless conformity or mindless non-conformity/posing.

In your case though I think there is a simple explanation for your persistent preference for your ancient behemoths---musical tastes. If you mainly listen to Zeppelin, AC/DC, and other metal/hard-rock music then those speakers might well sound better. I would be extremely surprised if they could surpass a simple $1100 Ascend setup of 340 mains with Hsu VTF2-MK2 sub while playing other kinds of music though---of course I'll never know because I don't have your speakers to audition them against.

I certainly noticed that my old 60s-70s rock/metal CDs actually sounded better on my cheapo Sony stack with an equally cheapo pair of Polk bookshelves than they do in my far better Marantz 5400 and the Ascend speakers and cheapo JBL subwoofer---this setup exposes the weaknesses of the original recordings far too much because they're far more accurate and neutral than the Sony setup. Whole different story with jazz, classical, and vocal-dominated rock/folk music which I mainly listen to, which sound like crap on the Sony. Since my metal days are far behind me (well, except for maybe a couple of times a year) then I am very happy with what I have.

BTW I think you said on a different thread that you spent some $1700 or so reconing your speakers? If you consider that "cheap" then we are just not from the same planet!
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