Hi to everyone and especially welcome back to you Hawk! You hopefully had never left us. I hope you're in a good shape and will remain active on this forum for long!
I have a small problem that I'm sure you can help me to fix. Since I owned a dvd player (denon 2900) that plays dvd-a and sacd, I'm using the analog inputs on my receiver (Marantz 7300).
It means that when I play any dvd video, I can play dts/dd tracks either via the digital input or via the analog inputs. I know that in the former case, the receiver's DAC is used and in the latter case, I use the DVD's DAC.
But the odd thing is the fact that I get much more output from the sub when I use the coax input compared to what I get when I use the analog inputs.
The audio configuration for the receiver and the dvd player are however identical : bass mangement at 80hz, speakers set to small (I own the kef eggs), same delays, same channel level, etc.
So is there anyone of you who could tell me why I don't get the same level of output in both cases? Hawk, I'm sure you must have an explanation for this, haven't you?
Even by setting the subwoofer output to +10db on the dvd player doesn't match with the level I get when the receiver's DAC does the job.
thks for caring. Well it makes no difference whether it is in DD or DTS, even though I usually get slightly more bass from DD than from dts. But I guess this is inherent to the intrinsic difference between the two sound formats.
Like I was saying, the output I get from the sub when the digital coax/optical is in use (in both DD AND dts) is much higher compared to what I get when the analog inputs are in use. I tend to believe that it must have something to do with the inputs and eventually the DAC as I exactly encounter the same problem in plain stereo : when I play a traditional cd, I still get more output from the sub in digital mode (coax input) than in analog mode.
But I'm not sure. I'd really like to know how to solve this. John, do you now have a better idea of my problem?
Maybe G-Man could also give his opinion on this, since I saw him saying he owned the same dvd player. Maybe it has to do with the Denon's Burr-Brown converters???!!
thks for caring. Well it makes no difference whether it is in DD or DTS, even though I usually get slightly more bass from DD than from dts. But I guess this is inherent to the intrinsic difference between the two sound formats.
Like I was saying, the output I get from the sub when the digital coax/optical is in use (in both DD AND dts) is much higher compared to what I get when the analog inputs are in use. I tend to believe that it must have something to do with the inputs and eventually the DAC as I exactly encounter the same problem in plain stereo : when I play a traditional cd, I still get more output from the sub in digital mode (coax input) than in analog mode.
But I'm not sure. I'd really like to know how to solve this. John, do you now have a better idea of my problem?
Maybe G-Man could also give his opinion on this, since I saw him saying he owned the same dvd player. Maybe it has to do with the Denon's Burr-Brown converters???!!
When using analog outs make sure the the subwoofer is turned on in the dvd player's menu and spekers are set to small. Disable any bass managment in the reciever and try it again.
I confirm that the sub is set to 'on' on the dvd menu and the speakers to 'small'. Besides, I wonder if I really need to disable the bass management on the receiver since it is bypassed anyway. Am I wrong?! And even if I disable the bass management on the receiver, it means I'll have to set the speakers to 'large' on the receiver's menu.
I'll try it anyway and will tell you if it works. Thks
David, not sure why this is but I will interject my experience.. I have my setup like yours, speakers set at small and bass management at 80hz with my NAD T752 and I'm getting the opposite results. I get much more bass and all around warmer sound from the analog input compared to digital. I was very surprised when this happened, tweaked settings every which way but analog always comes out deeper and warmer. I just wrote it off as characteristics of the DAC in the receiver vs the DAC in CD player...
Yes indeed Paul, that's what I suspected as my colleague (who btw owns a NAD 752 and the Kef eggs)told me exactly what you said.
If the DACs are to blame, this would mean that the Denon converters do a poor job in supplying the sub. But on the other hand I have also the feeling that I get a slightly warmer sound from the analog inputs (but less deep bass).
Or is it the other way round : would the receiver's DAC supply the sub with excessive infra-bass?! The trouble is, I like the warmer sound from the analog inputs and the extra bass from the digital input... The question remains, how can I have the best of both worlds?
Bad news David and I know this isn't what your going to want to hear but you might just have to spring for a new DVD to get exactly what you want.. The next worse thing is you will probably have to find a dealer who will allow to take home a demo and try it and make sure it delivers what you want... At least that is what I'd do, but I am very critical when it comes to getting exactly the sound I feel is balanced and correct, much more critical in my music listening then HT.. Listen to 90% music/10% HT
Yeah, well it's a shame you're right. But I could never imagine that my Denon 2900 had worst DACs than the Marantz 7300. And I'm not even close to buy a new DVD as I've just bought the Denon a month ago... But still, apart from the problem described above, I'm very satisfied with this player. Believe it or not. I also listen to something like 85/90% music. Thks for your comment anyway Paul.
Weird--my Denon 2900 and Pioneer Elite 47AVi both have no problems in that area.
Which bass management are you using? The Denon's or the Marantz's? Most bass management still is the weak link in most components. But I would bet the Denon has superior bass management to the Marantz. I'd use the Denon's bass management on all DVD's.
Hopefully there is a way for you to engage the Marantz bass management for all non-DVD programming.
This is a major problem with lots of receivers. Usually worse with SACD than DVD-Audio, but Sony is supposed to be hard at work on it--cough, cough.
Just see what happens when you engage Denon bass management and disengage the Marantz and play these difficult formats.
If thatdoesn't work there are a couple of other possibilities.
I am not familiar with the DENON 2900, but I have already had two denon CD players. As far as sound is concerned I've always been very happy with the detail that DENON is posting in music.
Knowing that you listen for 85-90% to music only, I think you should decide your set up uniquely by your personal preference without being biased by what 'should' be better. There is absolutely no problem of playing music through digital output. be careful though, more output does not necesarely mean better.
Do not worry about movie sound because movies put accentuate different frequencies (a lot of sub bass and high) to make thing look spectacular. Bass management is therefore rather complicated and if you do not have a sufficiant space and a few hundred watts subwoofer it will always leave you with a taste of insatisfaction.
How's life in Boston? When are you back in Luxembourg? We miss you man!
Gregory,
I understand you advise me to stick to the analog inputs : meaning I'd rather trust Denon's Burr-Brown DACs. Fine, but the thing is, I really like the higher output I get from the sub in digital mode. Enven though I do agree that more bass does not necessarily mean better sound, I must say that in my case, it helps strenghtening and deepening the sound.
On the other hand, I have to say that the sound is slightly warmer when it comes from the analog inputs. But it lacks deep bass. Hence, like I was asking before : how can I get the best of both worlds?
After all, it is only a matter of personal taste I know. But the question remains: why do I get more bass in the digital mode than in the analog???? Is it really because Denon's and Marantz's DACs are handling bass differently?! Even though the frequency cut-off is set on 80 hz in both cases?!
Is there anybody out there who could help me? Pleaaaaaaaase
mel
Unregistered guest
Posted on
is it true that an analog signal (using analog interconnects)to an avr is automaticaly converted to digital,then back to analog?was wondering if the tape inputs bypass this conversion since it is an analog only device.any thoughts?
mel: I think I answered this in another thread. Anyhow, it is only converted to the digital domain IF you are using any Digital Signal Processing (DSP) on the incoming signal. That is, if you use a DSP mode like Hall, Cinema, Concert, Jazz, etc... the system has to use ADCs to convert the signal to digital so that the digital processor can process the signal. Because most of the amplifiers today are Class A,B,AB, the amplification process is done on an analog signal. (Digital "path" receivers don't have to do the conversion!) That means that the signal coming out from the DSP (which is digital at this point) has to be converted back to the analog domain via the DACs. Then the signal is passed to the amplifier section of the receiver...
That is correct. In addition to the DSP modes you mention, geekboy, there is also surround-sound-from-two-channel:Prologic etc. That also depends on digital processing. If the original source is analogue, it has to be digitised, first. After that, speakers, and sound itself, are analogue, so the digitally processed signal has to be converted back.
This A->D->A conversion is not necessary of you listen to stereo from an analogue source. I assume missing out the digital step is what is meant by "stereo direct" on the NAD T7x3 receivers.