Speaker Auditions Today

 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4849
Registered: Feb-07
Took some time this afternoon to visit a small audioshop here in town I've never had the pleasure of visiting.

I went there specifically to hear the Castle Knight speakers that I've seen them advertising on CAM in the past.

I listened to 3 sets of these; the smallest bookshelf, as well as the two smallest floorstanding speakers from Castle. These are not impressive speakers. At all. They were thin and closed in sounding, and bright (something I am looking to get away from).

The next one they threw on by way of comparison was the Quad 112L. This was better in every way. The low end was fuller, the soundstage was bigger, and the top end had way more air. But I wasn't really into buying the Quads. Besides, there's a glut of them on the used market, so if I wanted them, I could get them for cheap.

Next up was a speaker I know nothing about. The Neat Motive 2. This is a good speaker. Really GOOD. I was blown away actually. The bass was tight and articulate, and they were just big and natural sounding, without even a hint of harshness. We tried out the next up in the Neat line, the Motive 3. The Motive 1 is bigger, and has a extra woofer, with a claimed low end down to 25hz.

I liked the Motive 2 better. The 1 was just a tad brighter, and less natural sounding. I am really, really impressed with Neat speakers. I read as well that they have great synergy with Exposure and Sonneteer.

This may be one to seriously consider.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1121
Registered: Dec-06
Yes, Neat is said to mate well with both Exposure and Naim.

No experience with the newer IAG Castle product. They don't seem to get as much respect as the old line made in the UK did.

Kudos should be another good match.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14699
Registered: Feb-05
Neat ah yes a very good speaker...goin' British. That's a good thing. Really, I like Neat, Spendor and Harbeth. Can't lose with any of those and I'm partial to Harbeth, obviously.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4850
Registered: Feb-07
Hey Art. They had Harbeths at the shop today too, but even the teeniest model there was way above what I was willing to spend, so I didn't even bother listening to it.

The Motive 2 absolutely blew me away.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14701
Registered: Feb-05
Yeah I know they are a bit spendy and if I hadn't got them at cost I wouldn't own them (the teeniest pair that is). I must say though that my speaker search is over. I will always have a pair of Harbeth speakers. I would like to get the C7's or Super 5's for the living room someday, but for now the sound I'm getting in my little dedicated space is fantastic. Better than I would have ever guessed I could get given the components. I recently added the Skylan stands which are built by Noel Nolan in Canada just for my P3ESR's and the performance is that much better...just love them and with the REL T5...well let's just say that the sound is fabulous.

Something about a good British speaker that just sounds right.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4851
Registered: Feb-07
I'm familiar with the Skylan stands. They're quite good.

I think the Harbeths would not be good at all for the kind of music I like, from what I've read.

I also have a line on some Dynaudio 140's and some PMC DB1i. Which ones would you guys favour?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14704
Registered: Feb-05
I think that the PMC's would be better than that particular line of Dynaudio speakers but your ears will be the ultimate judge.

BTW, I agree about the Harbeths. Although if I'm blessed enough to get a pair of the bigger ones one day I will not hesitate a bit to play any music in my library with them, and that includes plenty of R&R.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4852
Registered: Feb-07
Art, how would you describe the sound of PMC speakers? I want to stay very far away from anything harsh or bright. Even "exciting" at this point, after living with the RS6.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14707
Registered: Feb-05
Been a long time since I heard them. As I recall they were detailed, dynamic and not bright. A little like ProAc without the brightness. But again it's been awhile and I don't even remember the electronics.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1122
Registered: Dec-06
Agreed with Art's description of PMC. The highs are some of the nicest I've heard...not bright at all IMO. Detailed, and the bass out of the transmission line is very clean and deep. I would think the TB2i would be a nice fit in your room, though the DB1i produce a surprisingly full bodied sound for their size. You can of course always add a sub down the line if you want more support.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4853
Registered: Feb-07
My long-time, local dealer here gave me some Totem Mites to take home to play with, along with an Arcam A38. Gonna be a fun weekend.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14716
Registered: Feb-05
Now that should be interesting. I'll be very interested in what you think of that Arcam integrated, on its own merits as well as with the Mites. Fun weekend indeed.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4854
Registered: Feb-07
I had an Arcam A18 on loan a few months ago, taking it home and not expecting much it all. It really surprised me.

The Mites tonight were a lot of fun with the Exposure. Less revealing that the MA's, but then again, I didn't feel like someone was smashing a ball and peen hammer against a trashcan lid beside head.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14718
Registered: Feb-05
I can certainly relate to the kind of brightness that makes you feel like someone is driving an ice pick through your ear. I experienced it with the Prima Luna Prologue 2 and ProAc Studio 110's and again with the Epos M12i's. I just can't take brightness. I also find that the further down the road I get with this the less Iike electronics with their own character. I'm not looking for PRaT, air, or any of the BS anymore. I'm listening to the music and being glad that the gear gets out of the way and lets my Harbeths sing.

Even the Sonneteer had an uneven quality to it. Killer bass and midrange thru upper midrange to die for but the very upper end was a bit gray sounding and didn't quite match the rest of the presentation. Nothing in the NAD comes close to reaching the lofty heights of the best that the Sonneteer had to offer but it is overall better balanced in that every part of it's presentation (especially after changing out the pre amp jumpers) is equal in quality which means it gives a very coherent and predictable performance. I will also add that it didn't hurt that I moved the high end cables that I linked the Sonneteer and Saturn with right over to the NAD's and they were able to hack it. Instead of revealing every weakness this kit has (which is what I was afraid of) it simply enhanced all of it's good qualities...very nice indeed.. If I landed the 565 cd player I would probably be at a stopping point for sometime (until one if not both of the cd players broke...lol!).
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1123
Registered: Dec-06
Will be interesting to read a comparison between the Arcam and Exposure. The A38 is pretty comparable to the 3010s2 I would think (price and power-wise).

Ever considered trying active speakers? I've been reading about them lately. I think my next experiment will be a set of Dynaudio actives. The price is very reasonable (about a grand). I had the Quad 12L actives for a bit and should have stuck with them for a longer run. Oh well, Dyn's are probably the better speaker...but with the Quads I did hear some of what people love about actives (very precise, fast, clean, and natural). Not unlike a good set of headphones.
 

Gold Member
Username: Illuminator

USA

Post Number: 5606
Registered: Apr-05
Heh. Interesting. In my area there isn't a place to audition new/obscure speakers for hundreds of miles.

But I buy used always, and those people let me audition ;)

You guys are quite lucky...

And ergh, I'm not a fan of Dynaudio's home/studio speakers. Way overpriced. I think they overdo the "hand-built" thing and have humans do things that should be done by computer (B&W's philosophy is just this: some things are done better by humans, some better by machines). Dynaudio's approach seems to be: humans do as much as possible in engineering/building the speaker.

As a result Dynaudio has an excessive amount of quality control for the human mistakes, which also means increased cost of the final product to pay for all the extra human labor. And the materials they use are so-so.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14721
Registered: Feb-05
Since Dynaudio speakers by and large sound better than B&W's I guess we can figure out whose philosophy is working...just sayin'. B&W sells more speakers but then again that is their goal.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4483
Registered: May-05
David,

The PMC DB1 is a great speaker. My only criticism of the DB1+ (haven't heard the i series) was that it was a bit too small sounding and a bit too wall of sound sounding. In fairness, it sounded a hell of a lot bigger than it had any right to, as it's about as small a speaker as they come, but it didn't have that presence that a larger speaker has. This was also in a small room, so it was a fair scenario. The soundstage they threw was very wide and tall, but it was a bit shallow, and that bass impact wasn't quite where I wanted it to be. Close, but not quite there IMO.

The Mite should be similar, but have more presence and full body. The tone should also be pretty similar. Haven't heard it in a while, but I recall some people ssying it can get a bit bright. I don't remrmber taking that away with me from an audition.

If you have an Audio Physic dealer around, see what they've got. I think it was Dan who heard the current Yara bookshelves and wasn't impressed by their musical weight. Haven't heard the current ones, but mine are the perfect balance between the Totem Arro and PMC DB1+. They do everything those do right, and more than make up for their weaknesses. I don't use a sub with them. I could and eventually may at some point, but I'm truly not missing one at the moment.

The AP Step is a better speaker in every way. It's also more expensive, and I'm not sure what it sells for.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4484
Registered: May-05
The AP Tempo dhows up pretyy regularly on Audiogon. If i were to upgrade, the Tempo is where I'd start looking.

Several dealers I spoke with said the Tempo was easily the sweet spot in the lineup, and one of their favorite speakers they've ever sold. Hearing them definitely showed me why.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4856
Registered: Feb-07
I've just spent an hour or so listening to the Mites on my system (at some points very, very loud) and I have to agree with your description Stu. It reminds me in a lot of ways of my Sttafs, and appearance wise, they look exactly like Sttafs cut of just below the driver. The driver is identical, and the tweeter is soft dome too, but slightly different than the Sttafs. Not sure about the crossover.

I don't find them bright at all. They do have a bit more presence than the Sttafs did, but the Sttaf is an incredibly warm, laid back speaker.

The Mites image better than the Sttafs did, for sure. I found I always had to fidget around with positioning with the Sttafs to get them to image perfectly. They we just so much fun to listen too, though, that it didn't bother me.

I'm actually thinking about keeping the Mites. The dealer offered me a really good deal on them, and they're the primo expresso finish that are quite nice.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14722
Registered: Feb-05
And if you decide to get rid of them in the future...I'm here for ya! They would be fun to have in the living room.

Have you tried the Arcam yet?
 

Gold Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 1124
Registered: Dec-06
Looking forward to hearing about the Arcam too!

Heard the Yara floorstanders, Stu. I thought they sounded too bloated, but I put that down to set up as another system (Dynaudio) in the same store sounded the same way. I think I should have toed both speakers in more to suit my tastes. I'm also used to what I think is a more lively presentation (Exposure) than the amps they were running (Pathos with the Yaras and Simaudio with the Dyns).

Who knows though. Really the only way to know for sure is to live with speakers in your own home for an extended period, while working on proper placement until you get them just right. Too many variables in a retail establishment (though sometimes there is no other choice).
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4857
Registered: Feb-07
Haven't hooked up the Arcam yet. Been working most of the day so far, just got home.

LOL.... I'll keep that in mind Art. You have first dibs.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Stamford, Connecticut USA

Post Number: 4485
Registered: May-05
Dan,

The Yaras sound best to my ears almost straight ahead with very, very little toe in. Toeing them in more than that makes them very bright. The bloated sound most likely came from being too close to the back wall. That's been the only thing touchy about placing them in the 3 rooms I've had them in. I thought they'd need a good distance from side walls, but my current setup has one speaker about 1.5 feet away from a semi wall on the side (it's a closet that sticks out about 3 feet), and that caused minimal problems. They sounded pretty bloated when I heard them in the store at first, as they were on a shelf with about 6 inches behind them at best. We put them on stands about 18 inches away from the back wall, and that's when the magic happened. At least magic to me anyway

None of that takes electronics into consideration. They're quite revealing of what they're fed in my experience.

All APs I've heard need a bit more than average room behind them to breathe. If not, they'll sound like a car with a thumper in the trunk driving by.

David,

Glad the Mites are working out so well. A couple of thoughts...
They're in a different room than the Sttafs were, right? That could account for the differences that make it better sounding. They appear to be a bookshelf version of the Sttafs to me too. Are the cabinets narrower than the Sttafs? That could very well explain the better imaging. Something about the narrower cabinet not bluring soundwaves on the front surface. Not sure exactly, but it made total sense when I read it.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 14725
Registered: Feb-05
Different tweeter as well, correct?
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4858
Registered: Feb-07
Stu: Yup, they're in a different room. I hadn't tried the Sttafs in my new music room. The Sttafs are just a bit wider, at 6.3" (the Mites are 6"). They're also about an inch deeper.

Art: Correct. Different tweeters, both soft fabric though.
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