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New member Username: Jason_kPost Number: 2 Registered: May-11 | hello i need some help im looking to put together a full HT system, i was looking at the nad masters series setup i heard at a local dealer and loved the way it sounded i heard it on some paradigm monitor 11 speakers i thought it sounded really good. my question is, with a budget of no more than 11k for the amp, pre amp, and cd player what else should i look at in that price range if you think there is anything else i should consider? and aslo forgive me for not starting a new thread in the correct place but what other speakers should i look at with a budget of 8k for the full setup? thanks for any responses i was directed to come here from the amp section. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4730 Registered: Feb-07 | 8K on a HT system is a pretty good chunk of change. I'm guessing you're going to use this system for music listening too since you mentioned you want a CD player? Forget about the CD player and get a half decent Blu-ray player - this can double duty for music playback. At the very least you'll need: 1) A receiver 2) A Blu-ray player 3) 2 front speakers 4) 1 center channel 5) 2 rear surrounds 6) 1 subwoofer 7) cables That'll give your basic 5.1 HT system. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 16133 Registered: May-04 | . With the investment you intend to make, I would strongly suggest you look at separate components for your processing and amplification. The vast majority of HT receivers are meant to be disposable. They tend not to be very reliable and, when they need repair, it's typically better just to replace the unit. HT receivers are sold on their list of features which allows the manufacturer to build them with fairly shaky audio performance. Since it is often the features which are driving the decision to replace a unit, buy the unit with just those features you need for good quality sound. A "pre amp/processor" will give you the options to be far more slective about what you buy than would a complete package HT receiver. Combine this with a quality power amplifier of modest wattage and you'll have a more successful system then you would with most recievers. You'll also have a tendency toward higher quality performance, higher reliability and greater flexibility in upgrading the system in the future. Start by looking at Outlaw; http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/index.html Their products are well regarded and, since they deal only through on line retailing, typically less expensive than their competitors. Other than that, with your budget and the amount of information you've provided, it's going to be very difficult to give much advice. Tell us what you have for a HT system now and why you were looking at the NAD's. . |
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New member Username: Jason_kPost Number: 3 Registered: May-11 | thanks for the responses, jan i have a harman kardon avr-145 receiver, with some vintage pioneer speakers, and 101 disc pioneer cd player, i was listening to the nad setup because thats what my dealer offered and i hear really great things about the master series. bur i dont want to jump on the nads if there are any other pre amp/amps for around the same price could beat it, i have always wanted a seperates system but could never aford it, but with a few years of savings and this years tax return i think i have a budget that would be ok to me, my current system sounds good but not great im looking for the great. i realize i could upgrade my sourse and speakers i just want to build from the ground up, would the owtlaw be better than the nad? my dealer also carries arcam, linn, newcastle, rega, theta digital and i think thats it. i didnt hear anything else there cause my dealer took me straight to the nad setup. again thanks for the responses. |
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New member Username: Jason_kPost Number: 4 Registered: May-11 | and to be honest i dont know what im looking for, i think more of a neutral sound because i have owned setups that were considered "bright" and i have owned setups that were considered "warm" and i like that sound of either i do prefer the warmer sound if i feel like jamming, my current system is fairly warm sounding, but its lacking depth and soundstage, and midrange |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4731 Registered: Feb-07 | Jan's advice is always good (in this case, going separates) but in my case, I actually went the other direction. I had amps coming out the @ss on my HT system, and instead wanted to simplify things and went with a single high-quality receiver and couldn't be happier with the results. |
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Gold Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 1027 Registered: Dec-06 | I like Jan's idea of going with separates. I've heard that suggestion made before, by using a decent receiver with pre-outs as the processor, and then going for 3 separate two-channel power amps (Rotel, NAD, etc.). Or you could get one two-channel power amp and use the receiver to power all but the main two front speakers. Or go with a multi-channel power amp like Outlaw. Any of these should give you superior power amplification solutions, and the ability to upgrade to a new receiver down the line when you want a new feature (or your old receiver breaks). Power amp technology doesn't change that much, and these better pieces should also be more reliable. You get better sound quality this way, and don't have to worry about obsolescence and (hopefully) failure due to a cheap product. Anything can fail, but a two channel power amp is much less likely to fail than a receiver. As David said though, if you are looking to keep things simple, separates may not accomplish this. A good quality receiver by a company like NAD or Arcam probably sounds great, the only worry might be the fact that a $2,000 box will depreciate in value very quickly, and if it breaks after warranty it may not be worth fixing. I personally like having a standalone CD player, as I feel they usually beat a universal player for music. If sound quality is a big goal, I'd really consider this. Good standalone players are not that expensive. Also, consider other speakers. For your budget, you should be able to beat the Paradigm Monitor series. Well, I wasn't a fan when I heard them, but clearly the sound is right for some people. If you like them then by all means, go for it. But on your budget, you could move up to something a little higher quality like Paradigm's Studio series, with better sound and build quality (real wood veneer). That said, if you take all these suggestions (separates, higher end speakers, and a CD player) maybe you'll run up against your budget pretty quick. |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1257 Registered: May-05 | Jason, Run, do not walk to the Outlaw site right now. They have a promotion going where you can buy the Marantz SR5005 HDMI 1.4 AV Receiver and one of their 5 or 7 channel amps for a very good price. The Marantz can act as a pre/pro for a 7 channel amp or you can split them as several people have suggested. You can get a combo at a great price and you would still have about $8,000 for an incredible speaker package. No, I don't work for Outlaw but I did have their separates in a very nice HT package until the pre/pro blew. https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/combos.html |
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New member Username: Jason_kPost Number: 5 Registered: May-11 | thanks everyome very much for the advise im going this weekend to the nearest big city to me and i have 3 different dealers lined up to audition some equipment. i did talk to another guy at the audio shop i went to and he told me that the guy i talked to hooked up the paradigms for another customer i forgot to unhook them after, he told me the main speakers he has hooked up to the Nad setup is the Psb Synchrony speaker setup so im going to go have a listen to that setup because he told me they matched so much better to the nad.setup, i dont really have any other combos to listen to i will see what the 3 dealers have. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 16137 Registered: May-04 | . The basics you need to understand are simple. Buying higher power just to have higher power is irrelevant to the quality of sound and is a waste of money in most systems. The speakers do more to determine how loudly the system can play - especially on peak output transients - than will the amplifier when you compare only wattage. IOW, the wattage of the amplifier must double before you add another 3dB of peak power potential, that's rule of physics that cannot be bent - much. (Spec's on audio gear can be deceiving if you do not understand what the manufacturer is telling you and identical numbers on paper cannot always be interpreted as identical performance.) The amplifier must do this doubling for each increase in wattage, 25/50, 50/100, 100/200, 200/400, etc in order to raise the peak potential by 3dB. Therefore, the audible difference between a 50 watt and a 200 watt amplifier is rather minimal when you are simply discusssing volume potential. Any significant change in how loudly the amplifier can play without distortion (clipping) will be at the top of the volume scale on short term transients. At normal listening levels, any two amplifiers will be producing exactly the same wattage when working into identical speaker systems. If this is unclear, try this; http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html The more effective way to look at this would be to use that same +3dB increase that comes from doubling wattage and apply it instead to the loudspeakers. Once again, to clarify, if you increase the "sensitivity" or "efficiency" of the speaker system by three decibels, you have done the same thing as doubling your wattage in the amplifier. If you are considering a speaker rated at 85dB sensitivity to mate to a 75 watt amplifier, changing to a speaker rated at 88dB would be equivalent to buying a 150 watt amplifier and changing to a speaker rated at 91dB (if the specs have all been honest and made in the same fashion) would be the same as having a 300 watt amp. A difference you might consider is the higher sensitivity spec'd speaker will always have the amplifier running at a more comfortable level within its power band. Less heat and less stress typically translates into more reliable performance. There are always trade offs in audio, and buying a higher sensitivity speaker system might introduce other factors which you need to be aware of before making a decision. The load on the amplifier - as determined by the speaker system's electrical characteristics - will play a very significant role in the success of any system; https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/643339.html A very simple electrical load on the amplifier also results in higher quality sound from any decent amplifier and should contribute to longer system life. Speaker placement and system set up play especially significant roles in the final sound. The room is the major component in your entire system as the speakers energize the enclosed space and the dimensions and materials within the room can be as much as 90% of what you hear. IOW, what you hear at the dealers is highly unlikely to be what you hear at home, just changing the lay out of the system from the long wall to the short wall will alter the characterisitcs of the sound by a quite noticeable margin; https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/676769.html and; https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/672623.html Buying high quality speakers and a budget source player will only allow the high quality speakers to show you how cheaply the source player was built. For most listeners, the difference between a low end CD/DVD/BluRay player and a high quality player is audible once they attune their ears to the music being produced. I tend to preach that anyone who is spending a goodly sum of cash on an audio system - whether that goodly sum is $1500 or $15k - should have some simple priorities in place which inform them of how well music is being reproduced by an audio system. Quite honestly, this is not the thread where I need to repeat those same admonitions, the first is always to go listen to some live msuic first and think about what connects you to the experience of hearing live performers. Otherwise, you going through the archives of the forum will provide a good sense of how to put together a high quality system at a minimal cost. "Minimal cost" comes down not to how much you spend but how much you spend wisely and do not have to respend in a few months time as you begin to experience just how well a high quality audio system can reignite those same emotions you've experienced at a live event. Finally, take reviews with a large grain of salt. The reviewer is not out to mislead you, they are there to honestly report what they've experienced in most cases. However, they are reporting what they experienced and their priorities might not - probably will not - be the same as your own. You can always find someone who liked virtually any good product and is willing to say so. However, if you have no idea what their priorities are and how they compare with your own, you might easily mislead yourself by thinking their experience will be the same as your own. For a review to be truly useful you need to first know the reviewer and their likes and dislikes before you can judge whether they align themself with your needs and wants. There are basic rules which should be followed when piecing together a system. They are, for the most part, repeated with each request for assistance from the forum members. Read through the archives of the forum and you'll arm yourself with more than a small amount of experience - both good and bad and entry level to quite advanced. Speaking as a former audio salesperson, the sales staff thinks of what they know as their ammunition which they can use to sway your opinions. That's not at all a bad thing if the salesperson is well informed and willing to assist you. To be the most effective customer, you need an equal amount of ammunition in your belt. So read the archives and ask questions when necessary. . |
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New member Username: Jason_kPost Number: 6 Registered: May-11 | well im going today to check out some systems, my dealer told me i could take one home to audition it so i think thats what im gonna do. thanks again everyone for all your advise |