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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1626 Registered: Nov-06 | I think I remember reading on here that several of you have done it. Well, curiosity got the best of me. Wish I tried this sooner.This is cool. I have to let them burn in (or my ears adjust), but I can say I have no urge to remove them as of right now. Right now I am quite impressed at how it compares to my bottom of the line audioquest. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13999 Registered: Feb-05 | One of the Home Depot extension cords was a recommended component for one of the audio a rags a few years back. Which one did you use, Gav? |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1627 Registered: Nov-06 | It was a home depot one. That is interesting Art... I didn't know that. It is a 50' landscape cord. It has kind of an oatmeal color to it, and 16 gauge. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 14000 Registered: Feb-05 | http://www.theanalogdept.com/hd14.htm http://gnu.295.ca/~peak/audio/audiogon_hd2.html http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18214 Yep, it was quite the topic of discussion a few years back. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1628 Registered: Nov-06 | It isn't that cable... but the internals look exactly like it. *shrug* |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3492 Registered: Oct-04 | https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1707799#POST1707799 I'm still using these with no complaints. |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16670 Registered: Jun-04 | I think im going to try the belden 5000up. Anyone know where the cheaspest place to buy that by the foot is? |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16671 Registered: Jun-04 | i think ill go with these banana plugs http://www.ramelectronics.net/audio-video/connectors/all-speaker-connectors/gold -banana-plugs-bp30602/prodBP30602.html |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2136 Registered: Oct-07 | BJC....Blue Jeans Cable will sell you as much as you want for a buck a foot. http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/ |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1649 Registered: Nov-06 | And I am glad that I didn't let my initial excitement go to my head. After letting the cables run for a week solid, my audioquest are superior when run in a system that has clean HF articulation. The extension cord treble sounds "dirty" and grainy by comparison. The audioquest sounds more controlled. I WILL say that dollar for dollar... the extension cord beats the heck out of the boutique brands. |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16672 Registered: Jun-04 | I decided instead to go with ultralink CL414 cable and make these http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_2/ultralink-CL414-cable-5-2003.html |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16673 Registered: Jun-04 | what audioquest wire do you have? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15928 Registered: May-04 | . Gavin, I only have experience with a few extension cables used as speaker or ic cabling but there is a difference between each product. Several years ago, not long after the original TAS survey in which the HD cables were first mentioned, I picked up a cable at someplace like Fry's that was being sold as a cheap outdoor extension cable. It performed much as you describe. From the get go the sound was what I associate with poorly timed components. It produced a sound that put my teeth on edge though it would have been satisfying if all you were concerned with was bass, mids and treble. When the HD extension cables were first mentioned in the TAS cable comparsion, it was noted that there were distinct differences between which cables to use and which to avoid. If anything, the orange/black striped HD cables have, IMO, a slightly soft sound on top and they are not at all "grainy". Their sins are rather minimal and are mostly those of slight ommission and a general "smoothness" (only when compared to far more expensive cables) rather than an obvious commission or addition of their own personality. Therefore, they are not at all a bad deal for anyone looking for modestly priced cables for use in a basic HT system, a modest secondary set up or just someone who isn't all that concerned about the ultimate extraction of the tiniest of details yet wants good music to listen to at a reasonable cost. Their virtues are evident in that their simple inclusion in a cable survey by TAS (suggested to the TAS reviewer by the USA Quad rep who uses either the HD cable or a similar [green] extension cable sold by Black and Decker for all their demonstrations) brought about a flurry of activity in "un-audiophile approved" cables and quite a bit of resistance by many TAS readers who owned far more expensive cables which were rated lower in some areas than were the HD extensions. Whether what you purchased are cables similar to those written up in the TAS survey is unknown but the appearance you describe would suggest they are not. Whether or not the same cables as were mentioned in the TAS survey are still being sold by HD is also unknown to me. HD isn't in the business of supplying audiophile cables but rather in finding the lowest cost supplier to meet their high volume needs. None the less, I wouldn't give up on such inexpensive cables. For the money spent you can try several different cables before you approach the cost of most aftermarket speaker cables or ic's. (Walmart had a white extension cable that was given a good review not that many years ago.) And, if you do your cuts and reconnections properly, you'll still have a decent outdoor extension cable if you decide to keep the Audioquest. You don't mention whether you used banana plugs or not but I would also warn you that most banana plugs are not very good for sound quality though they make rather nice looking audiophile jewelry. If your cable swap included a different plug, you might want to retest the cables with just bare wire connections or a quality spade lug. Unless your system can only be set up with bananas, you should confine their use to places where a quick connect/disconnect is more important than is sound quality. . |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2139 Registered: Oct-07 | Man, what a can of worms. Home Despot for speaker cable? These guys change suppliers like a fashion model changes clothes, always hammering for a lower price or higher margin. It would surprise me if an extension sold 18 months ago was still available, at least the exact same wire/insulation from the same manufacturer. Any retail seller will be on the lookout for a better deal from a supplier. Jan, any thoughts on Canaras expanding banana plugs? they are very well made and provide 2x setscrew attachments while being 10ga. compatible. Magnepan apparently never figured out binding posts. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1650 Registered: Nov-06 | Jan I was using bare wire, and you were correct in thinking that I was not using the wire that was mentioned in TAS. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2141 Registered: Oct-07 | Unless you're very lucky, the wire mentioned in TAS is long gone. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15932 Registered: May-04 | . No thoughts at all on bananas, leo, beyond what I posted above. My old Rogers LS3/5a's require bananas and I have a couple of pairs of the old style Monster X-Terminator type expanding plugs; http://www.wildwestelectronics.net/mocaxpoexgob.html The cable or lug is secured by an Allen screw, there's a huge amount of contact area considering it's still a banana plug and the connection is locked in place as tightly as any locking XLR I've ever used. It would appear every half-way decent banana plug made since the X-Terminators has been modelled after their basic design. While not a fan of bananas for serious audio use I have to say every other plug I sub'd for the Monster units were inferior in every way other than cost. Bang for the buck? I'd say use Pamonas. They make a nice, snug connection to the binding post with a secure screw type hold on the cable and while they're just nickle plated it's a high quality plating that's good enough for lab work which is more than you can say about most of the cheesy gold plated audio connectors in use. And they're also cheap enough to throw away and use new with every yearly housekeeping. Why not just replace the connenctors on your speakers? Audio Note has some decently priced connectors that have above average sonics; http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/p/AN-CON-028LAG/Audio+Note+Binding+Post+Large I just ordered a set of those posts for my Mac tube amps. For a bit more dough you can still get the Edison Price pure copper posts; http://www.eminent-tech.com/musicpost.html Those are the cat's meow - though pure copper requires some serious housecleaning time. . |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16674 Registered: Jun-04 | Gavin what audioquest speaker cables are you using? |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16675 Registered: Jun-04 | Jan or anyone. What do you think of these bare copper bannana speaker connectors? They seem good for the price. http://http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_149.html |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16676 Registered: Jun-04 | since the link above doesnt work Furez TST-SB60NP Tensioned Split Tube Banana Plug Connector Feature Specifications: '¢ NP - Not Plated - Bare Copper - Banana Speaker Cable Connector '¢ Patent Pending Exclusive Design '¢ Machined from C14500 93% IACS Tellurium Copper '¢ Single Piece Electrical Path Construction Maximizes Signal Conductance '¢ Contact Pressure Near Equal that of Locking Banana Plugs '¢ Maximized Contact Area similar to BFA and Fluted Style Banana Plugs '¢ Deep Barrel and Forward Set Screws Protect Against Shorting - Conductor Insulation can be Inside the Banana Connector '¢ Dual Torx T6 Set Screws for securing speaker cable '¢ User Adjustable Contact Pressure without moving parts '¢ Compatible with Standard 4mm Binding Posts '¢ 0.235 (6mm) Speaker Cable Entry ID - Accepts 14AWG to 4 AWG Speaker Cable '¢ Internal Depth: 0.815' (20.7mm) '¢ Recommend Cable Strip Length 9/16" (14.3mm) '¢ Overall Length: 1.565" (39.75mm) '¢ Weight: 0.75 Ounces Per Pair without set screws '¢ Sold in AS a Pair (2 Pieces) '¢ Includes: - Pair Banana Plugs - 0.216" (5.5mm) Set Screws x 4 - 0.275" (7mm) Set Screws x 4 - Spare Red/Black Tensioning Elements - Latex Gloves - 1 Torx T6 driver (Limit one per order per 30 day period) '¢ Warranty: Lifetime '¢ Optional Items: - Spare 0.216" (5.5mm) Set Screws - Spare 0.275" (7mm) Set Screws - Clear Heat Shrink 12" for covering connectors - Red/Black Heat Shrink 6" ea for covering connectors Tensioned Split Tube Banana Speaker Connector Pressure Adjustment |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1651 Registered: Nov-06 | I use bare wire. I think that the signal transfer is better. Once the ends oxidize, I just rough them up. I haven't used terminated cable in roughly 3-4 years, with the exception going to my miniwatt. That only excepts bananas on the inputs. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15934 Registered: May-04 | . Sean, why do you want to use bananas? As Gavin suggests, there's no sonic benefit to adding more layers of materials and connection points when a properly terminated bare wire is your best connection. Going through the av.com webpage to find those bananas, they look to have a good idea. Pretty basic, which is good. Keep in mind, should you buy these plugs, copper will oxidize quickly and the oxidation residue of copper is not good for sonics. This means as soon as you insert these into your system, the sound begins to deteriorate. You would still want to buy a plated version of this plug as cleaning the entire plug every few months will be a PITA. . |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2147 Registered: Oct-07 | WildWest site says Monster Bananas are a goner. No longer available. Isn't copper oxide an insulator? |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1652 Registered: Nov-06 | Leo, not to drag material from another thread in here... but my downstairs neighbors are gone today. I decided to turn the volume up a little to give it a go. I think that the 100 watt spec is on the conservative side. I threw in India.Arie's "Acoustic Soul". If you are familiar with that album, it has loads of bass energy. Well, If I didn't know better I would have assumed I had a small sub in my apartment. That amp is much better than I gave it credit for when paired with the iQ3.The richness is in the right place, without the upper bass emphasis. |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16677 Registered: Jun-04 | Ok no problem with me not using banana plugs it saves me money. As far as the cable itself oxidizing should i use Caig's Pro Gold or is there another product you recommend. I also wanted to know how often I should use a product like that? Or is there a way to make the speaker wire 100% resistant from oxidation at all? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15937 Registered: May-04 | . "Isn't copper oxide an insulator?" Don't think so, more like way less conductive than lead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_rectifier |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15938 Registered: May-04 | . Sean, just leave sufficient cable length to allow for trimming off the oxidize end each year. Once a year you get clean, fresh copper ends. That's way more efficient than trying to clean stranded cable. You should do general housekeeping to tidy up contacts and connectors, switches and pots if they are not of the electronic type and just clean up and re-check things about your system at least once a year. If the climate you live in is extremely humid or you live in an area where harsh chemicals or organic materials (salt water) might be an issue, you can up the schedule time to twice per year. You don't want to be OC about all this but you will benefit from regular maintenance on the system - most especially so if you use tubes anywhere in the system. . |
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Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 16678 Registered: Jun-04 | Ok thanks for your input Jan. It looks like ill be doing maintenance on the cable every 6 months. Its a good thing I bought the cable with an extra 2 - 3 feet to spare per cable. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1653 Registered: Nov-06 | Sean to answer your other question, I have the bottom end, entry level audioquest cable. I am not sure of the series. I will try and see if I can find out more info later. My local AQ dealer is not overly helpful in that regard. I think for my next set of cables, I am going to make the drive to Carston Stereo in CT. I am happy with audioquest and want to see what he has. My local AQ dealer is kind of a small, private version of a big box retailer (if that makes sense). I went to Carston in the past for my old pioneer kit and was very pleased. I remember all the AQ stuff. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2153 Registered: Oct-07 | HMMMM, copper oxide is a semiconductor! Cool. Based on semiconductor experience, I'd say it was important to grow a proper film. Temperature of growth and the gas media are what drives the film....that and how clean the copper is and how it was cleaned. 'process' will dictate all of above as well as the final thickness. All are important to manufacturing lots of 'em and not making an artifact. While the native oxide that copper wires grow will have the same properties, the variance will be huge. Still and all, good info. |