After changing my mind and my budget for the past couple of months I went from b&w 686 to tannoy or sonus faber and now I think I found the best speakers for MY taste and price.
This is only for 2 channel HiFi music listening (joe cocker, diana krall, barry white, norah jones, marcus miller and etc.)
I've listened the both speakers with the Rotel RA-06 and I think they are quite good (for ME again) but I think that the CM1 is more laid back or refined, and the 705 had better imaging and more full-er sound, more dynamic and at the same time a little bright but I liked that.
Their price difference is 400euros since the CM1s are 800e and the 705s are 1200euros.
I must say that for me the 705s are still between the CM series and the 800 series even that are dated now but that is verry personal thing and opinion.
Now the problem:
For me the 705s were better but I dont know if that justifies the extra 400euros and you clearly can't answer that for me but the thing that bothers me is that a friend of mine who is verry into HiFi said to me that Rotel is for 600 and CM series, so for 700 and above (800 classe ofcourse) I need a better amp to trully see the benefit of the 705s.
So did the Rotel RA-06 was holding a little back the 705s or not, will they be a little better with a better amp and I can then justify their higher price tag (btw they look damn fine for me and all is UK build not that it's important but I must admit for me it is) knowing that I liked them even now a little over the CM1s?
And another off topic question, that same friend told me that B&W may have discontinued the 700 series because of the manufacturing costs of that non-parallel cabinets and they didn't have that much profit, and that the 700 series is still good even between the CM series which is trickled down from the 800 (personal opinion for this so nothing bad)
All of those speakers will sound a great deal better with better amplification. The RA-02 wasn't a bad integrated at all, but it was their smallest and cheapest offering at the time. Also, you don't mention your source component, which has a lot to do with the overall sound.
I don't think either speaker, nor any other you mentioned are worth buying without an amplification upgrade, but as you say that's a personal thing.
I double-checked my post to see if there is a typo, but Stu the rotel was the ra-06 (i dont know if they are the same with the 02 and thats why you said 02).
Well the speakers are the first thing that I want to change the current one just cant do it for me, they are some 20 years old Technics speakers.
The current amp is an AV Receiver Panasonic SA-HE75 but that will be the next upgrade in couple of months and also some high quality CD player (for now lossles format over optical via PC).
Everything in my system will be changed (amp, speakers, cd player, cables) to suit best (for my money) 2 ch music experience.
Since I cant buy everything at once (money ofcourse) I want to buy everything in stages and thats why I want to get every component the best that I can.
Because these speakers really suit me I want to get them first and start my upgrade from them and then find matching amp for them and source.
So here is my dillema, if the 705s benefit from more quallity amp then the CM1s I can strech my budget now and get them, but if they need the same level of amplification maybe I will go with the CM1s?
Sorry Igor. I misread your post and thought RA-02.
Both speakers will benefit from better amplification, and a better source. If that's worth the money or not is a personal thing.
I think your best bet is to work with a dealer and hear entire systems rather than audition pieces individually. If you're going to upgrade the entire system piece by piece, you should know what the final result will be, or at least have a good idea of what it'll sound like. Let the dealer know your intentions, and they should work with putting together an entire system that'll be bought in stages.
As to which component to start with, I'd lean towards the amplification. An underpowered amp will ruin a speaker very easily. I doubt your AVR will drive either speaker sufficiently, possibly causing the amp to clip. Distortion kills speakers.
Well if you say that they need better amplification then the RA-06 then I'll visit the shop once again tomorrow and see what they've got in the 1000-1300euros range just to hear what the sound will be since that will be my max budget for an amp (or amp/pre combination).
The problem is that I live in a small country and there is only one really high end shop in my city (and country) and they carry rotel, denon, marantz, mcintosh mainly and I'm limited to that and I'll have to travel in another country if I want something else, naim for example (thats not problem but it's not easy also its 400km drive just to listen now).
Can you suggest something from rotel, marantz and denon (just not mcintosh for now ) in that price range to give a listen, I'll talk also to one of the dealers since we're friends?
I appriciate your advice on the amp first to get started but I really cant stand the sound from these speakers and if I change the amp now I'll need to put up with this sound maybe till next summer.
I've listened the 685 with my AVR and on moderate levels wich I listen to 90% of the time it was way better then now.
The other reason that I want to buy the speakers first is that one of the dealers (my friend) told me that these 705s are their last pair and dont know if there will be another pair in the future since they are discontinued and the second hand market here is a disaster so cant buy s/h.
Thats why I want the speakers first and need to know which of these speakers in your opinion will benefit the highest quality amp for them in that price, knowing that I like them both (705s little more).
I see what you're saying about the speakers. If they're driving you crazy and there's a small window of opportunity to buy what you want, then by all means do that.
I haven't followed the brands you mention too closely lately. Except for McIntosh, I don't care much for them. Also, I don't know conversion rates, international availability, etc. to suggest something.
I'm very confidant in saying Naim is better than everything you mentioned, except McIntosh. Mac is different, but better is subjective. I could live with either one and be very happy for a very long time.
My suggestion is to work with your dealer. Hear what they have, and hear the speakers with what they have. I'm not convinced that the RA-06 will have enough power to get a good grip on the 705s. I think the 685 series is far better suited for RA-06. The 705 may sound better, but again, if its worth the extra cost is a personal thing.
Hearing all this stuff together is really the only way to make sure. I'm pretty confidant that you'll know which way to go once you hear the stuff in a proper demo.
I'll definetly consider Naim the first choice when it comes down to buying the amp and the price here is 900-950euros brand new just the problem is I cant hear it with the speakers I like since it is in another country (the trip will cost me 50 euros to listen them, i can have someone pick them and bring me here) and the shop that sells Naim only have Proacs and Harbeths, actually since I'm talking about buying from that shop they've got the Proacs studio 100 for the same price as the 705s but I've never heard Proac, whats your opinion on their speakers?
I'll surely not go with the RA06 so the 600 series from B&W is a no go, I really like something better their sound just dont do it for me.
One other thing that I saw yesterday is a guy that selss his home audio system which consists of Primare CD31 player , Aleph pre-amp, two aleph monoblocks and a pair of DIY speakers.
The speakers uses:
Seas Excel tweeter T25-001 Focal midrange 5K4411 SkanSpeak 18w/8545
Sensitivity is 92db, crossovers in two parts , Solen conductors and Solen air cores (I cant really translate good this components) , MOX resistors , Kimber 4TC internal wires, WBT bi-wire conectors, separate part for high and midrange and for low frequencies.
I've heard this speakers and they sound verry good, maybe better then anything that I've listened to and their price is 1500$ but I dont know how are prices for speakers in the DIY world and is this an OK price, I dont want to be a rip-off?
As you can see since this is my first step into high-end (for me high) I like almost everything that I hear from the high end speakers and I still dont know what to look and see in a speaker.When I get my fist speakers then I know what I'll like more and what not.
Sorry for the lott of questions but I really enjoy listening music and dont want to throw my hard earned money on something that will be a mistake.
thanks
here are some pictures of the DIY speakers and a chart that the guy sand me.
Those speakers look very nice. The graph looks very flat, which can be a good thing. Taking a chance with them is far riskier than with a known brand. With a known brand, you can sell them relatively easily. People know them and can hear them in stores and/or read reviews. Every DIY speaker is different, and there's little point of reference for how they'll sound. Unless you can hear them for yourself and can inspect them, I think it's a very big risk. They could sound excellent, or they could sound horrible. The only person telling you how they sound is the seller. Not exactly the most unbiased person.
I like ProAc and Harbeth far better than B&W. Doesn't mean you will though. They have a different presentation from B&W and from each other. Naim matches very well with them IMO.
I don't know how much of a hassle it will be to see them. I honestly think they're worth hearing if you can afford them and it's not a nightmare getting there. Your best bet would be to call them and make an appointment to hear their stuff so that you know they'll be available and the dealer will be expecting you. Just because a dealer carries certain brands doesn't mean they have everything available to demo by those brands. If they don't have what you're looking for specifically, they should be able to get them for a demo.
I've heard the majority of what you've listed. Rotel and B&W don't compete with Naim and Harbeth/ProAc. Personal preferences are a different thing and everyone likes what they like, so take that as you will. I think you're really doing yourself a dis-service by not hearing that stuff if reasonably possible.
For the DIY speakers, I heard them and think that they were amazing, verry natural, accurate and didn't sound agressive at all, I think I'm starting to like the more natural/laid back sound then the little bright harsh sound from the 705s so I think that this speaker maybe isn't for me.But these are big speakers and I think will be overkill for my room at the moment which is 4x5 meters (i'll have bigger but that is for a couple of years when I move to bigger place)
The Proacs fit in my maximum budget of 1200-1300euros, thats the Studio 100s.
The Harbeths are from 1500euros and up so they are out of my price range since I'm already above the planned.
I forget to say I also can choose from Dynaudio and Paradigm but dont know what they sound like (bright, neutral etc), actually I'm waiting for a price list of the Focus series from Dynaudio, I think they are one great manufacturer.
With my taste (neutral), kind of music (jazz, blues, verry soft rock) and budget, which speakers will you think that will be the best match for me, to go audition I mean, you cant know if I'll like them?
Oh and for that above, the selling thing, these speakers will be used for a long time, minimum 5-6 years even more maybe so re-sell is not something in mind.
For your listening tastes I'd guess that you'd like the Proacs or Harbeths over the Dyno's or B&W's. Nothing wrong with DIY, but you need to know what you're getting and preferably listen to them first. There are some great deals out there in the DIY world, and even more money to be saved if you don't mind doing some gluing and screwing to put your own pair together.
If you're planning to move your system into a bigger place down the road, don't buy for a small room now or you'll end up upgrading again then. If you can do it, try to get something what won't be overkill in your current space, but can scale to a bigger room when the time comes.
Take your time with the decision. As you say, you don't want to waste your hard-earned money.
well chris I really cant get the harbeths they are 300euros over my max budget I mean the cheapest ones, but the Proacs studio 100 are right in my budget, they are 1160euros but I need to find a way and give them a listen.
I only considered the DIY speakers because the guy that sells them was a serious older guy with a big passion for hifi and equipement and had some good stuff home so he wasn't some kid and his big speakers.I must say again they sounded excellent.
i dont have the skills to build my own speakers nor the knowledge and cant get good drivers here online or some other way.
Nuck since I changed my mind about the 705s there is no rush but I still plan to buy around new year (bonus time at work).
Today I got I call from a guy that is a small tannoy dealer and have a brand new in box Tannoy definition d300 rosewood speakers for 1000euros.
I've never had the chance to listen these older tannoy speakers but what do you think about them, I think the definition line in their time was very good, how do they compare to the proacs or the dyns since these are more modern speakers, and how is the price ?
Yesterday one of the shops send me their prices for the Dynaudio Focal speakers, the 110 and 140.The F11 is 1050euros (thats with 15% discount) and the F140 is 1550euros also with discount (this is still little higher for me).
I'm waiting for a discount prices on the Harbeths P3ESR and the Proac Response D1.
I would like to know is there a big difference between the two focal models since the room is verry small and dont know if I'll really see the benefit from the more powerfull F140 and also I hear that they need space to perform the best.
Also whats your thoughts for the Harbeth model, how do they compare to the rest of these speakers (never mind the retro look, actually I find it interesting), I see that a lot of people like them and their midrange?
Finally the Response D1, how is this model I cant find reviews about it, only the older model?
Which of these speakers will suit my needs for jazz, vocals and instrumental (some soft rock also) music?
I ask you this, because all of these speakers are not available here and for know I cant listen them?
