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A/V set up with Hight Def box.

 

Bronze Member
Username: Diggytooth8

Post Number: 14
Registered: Sep-10
wonder if anyone can help. I have no HDMI inputs on my A / V. I am getting a High def converter box soon. What is the best way run it through my A / V? so I get the best possible sound/Video. My A / V has optical/digital inputs. This is my A / V:

http://resources.jvc.com/Resources/00/00/95/21019ien.pdf
Thanks.
 

Silver Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 340
Registered: Oct-10
You can either run HDMI straight to your TV, pass component video through your receiver or buy a new receiver with HDMI capability.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 15577
Registered: May-04
.

I would opt for the component video outputs on your converter directly to the component video inputs of the TV.

If you have no component video or HDMI inputs available, you're facing an upgrade somewhere in your system to bring it up to current "home theater" levels - or you can say chuck it all and watch your TV in 720i-480i quality.

You'll still receive true "digital" quality video (1080i) through the component inputs and you'll not be passsing video through an average HT receiver - which can only downgrade the quality of the signal no matter how they label their "enhancements".

Take your audio outputs from whichever sounds the best. The optical output will provide the encoded information for a "surround" decoder as most standard cable/satellite television fare and any "digital" broadcast from the major channels will be in a Dolby Digital 5.1 format.

This connection will require you change inputs on the TV and the receiver when switching between, say, a video disc player or game box and your cable receiver box. Probably not too different than what you're doing now. A universal remote which controls both devices will make this relatively simple and a universal remote with "macro functions" reduces this to one button operation after set up.




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Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 15604
Registered: Jan-08
Personaly I hook all hardwares on my Aquos, I can hook the sound throught the Optical output to the HT, The Aquos remote is universal then I control the HT with this remote!

My PC sound is hooked in the HT throught RCA then HDMI on TV when available!
 

Silver Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 341
Registered: Oct-10
Jan, you've mentioned before that passing video through a receiver down grades the picture. Why and how severely? I've never done the whole HT thing. I have a hi-fi VCR, DVD player, digital cable (not hd) and pic tube TV in my system mostly for live music DVDs & tapes, football and the occasional movie since I hate TV speakers. The receiver has 3 composite vid inputs which is 3 more of anything video than I expected from a stereo receiver. I haven't noticed any difference running vid straight to the TV as opposed to going through the amp, but I'm guessing that composite to pic tube TV wouldn't make the kind of difference that component or HDMI to HDTV would make. Could this downgrade be minimized by keeping the video cables as short as possible? Or is the problem inside the receiver?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 15624
Registered: Jan-08
Super

With HDMI, no problem but with component and composite, certainly you lose signal quality!
 

Silver Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 343
Registered: Oct-10
But why is this so Plymouth? What's in the receiver that's harming the picture and how bad is the damage?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 15578
Registered: May-04
.

Obviously, it depends on what the individual user considers "better" and what equipment they own. I think most of us understand that as they come from a box most televisions are quite inaccurate in their default set up. They have been preset from the factory to sell on a floor filled with a few dozen other televisions and they must compete to capture the (largely uninformed) buyer's eye in an instant. To do this in the unfavorable conditions of most retailers means the set must compete under bright/flourescent lighting and in situations altogether unlike those encountered in realworld use. To compete in this manner manufacturers have largely devised "enhancements" which are meant to trick the unwary customer's eye into believing they are seeing something which does not actually exist - good image quality.

To that end most high end televisions are drifting ever more rapidly towards being reviewed and criticized for their deviations from a perceived "accurate" image quality or what some would call a "film like" image quality for home theater use. Without even getting into any specific set up procedures which depend upon a certain expertise in calling up submenus and making very fine but critical adjustments to the image quality, the majority of "high end" video retailers will encourage a client to adjust their picture qualities to the most nuetral/accurate settings possible given the tools provided by the manufacturer. Therefore, noise reduction is defeated, edge definition is defeated, as will be color management, blur reduction and a host of other "enhancements" available and preset at the factory to make the image "jump" on the showroom floor. Most decent video salespeople understand these controls are there for the sake of the manufacturer who is selling a product over selling their quality. Consider this the equivalent of a loud, boomy, sizzly loudspeaker meant to capture the buyer's attention when switching between it and the more accurate, lower sensitivity speaker from, say, Harbeth. It's those first impressions which matter to most peple and most people are not interested in accuracy, they are interested in what looks or sounds good to them without a reference to accuracy.

Therefore, if the buyer is not interested in image quality beyond "I like that", then the buyer can do whichever type of set up they choose or none at all. If they prefer their image to be a "Sport" or "Game" preset, no one should attempt to dissaude them from being their own worst enemy. The presets from virtually any mass market television manufacturer all need to be reduced to save wear and tear on the power supply and component parts of any set they build if nothing else. If the buyer prefers shorter livespan and arguably lower picture quality to the "POP" of high contrast, over saturated colors with an inaccurate white balance, then that's their decision.

However, if the client is seeking a relatively accurate image quality, the various enhancements provided in the set will have been defeated during the intial set up in the client's home. It then makes no sense to reintroduce those same ehancements in the receiver's electronics. For the most part, and in the mass market particularly, the quality of the circuits in a receiver will be of lower quality that anything found in the television itself. They are there as deal closers and not much more. For decades now receivers have been sold - if you can actually call the process "selling" - by the salesperson pointing to the features on the front and back panel and to the remote for the product. No mention is typically made of sound quality differences between receivers as there generally isn't much real sound quality to begin with. What little differences do exist are all too often lost in the average demonstration room of all but the most dedicated retailer. It therefore comes down not to how good is the receiver at doing anything but how much can the receiver do. When the receiver manufacturer understands that no customer is going to get a demonstration of the noise reduction circuitry of their product - largely because there is no way to seriously demonstrate the circuit, why should they bother going to the expense of including a decent circuit when that would ultimately drive up the cost and possibly loose more sales than it creates in the average sales situation?

Most "enhancements" included in both televisions and receivers are there to somewhat make up for a lousy signal quality. Garbage in = garbage out still applies. Provide a better signal and the set will look better by default. Make more connections and each connection results in slightly lower quality in the sense the straightest path is almost always the best path and running the extremely high frequency video signal through a mass market receiver with the cheapest power supply possible seems especially self defeating.

As I said, the buyer is not going to have the video police knocking at their door. But, if they are interested in the highest quality, most accurate image over the "WOW" factor of a new television, they'll go for the reduction of enhancements and set up the television or projector for such qualities which automatically takes any receiver based enhancements out of the picture - literally.

I assume when Plymouth refers to component connections being of a lower quality when run through a receiver that he is assuming the digital nature of the HDMI connection has no loss. While that's somewhat debateable, it's not IMO a matter of digital versus analog. It comes down to what the buyer is after in terms of image quality and why those enhancements exist in most HT receivers. As to composite connections, if that's what you're using, you've already said picture quality is not important.

Finally, since most video enehancements included in a receiver are duplicates of those included in the television, doubling up on enhancements is akin to having too many places to set volume levels or tone controls. Since one enhancement circuit is unlikely to be an exact duplicate of another enhancement circuit, having a noise reduction or edge defintion circuit in both the television and the receiver is more likely to lower picture quality by making what you might consider to be a comb filter effect of non-linear adjustments where as using only one device would be closer to ... "ideal"(?). If you really want the enhancements, use them in one location only. The television almost always has better circuits than the receiver.


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Silver Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 346
Registered: Oct-10
Thanks Jan, that clears it up.

"since most video enhancements included in a receiver are duplicates of those included in the television, doubling up on enhancements is akin to having too many places to set volume levels or tone controls."

I know! My computer has about 5 volume controls between hardware and software (one on monitor, 1 one on keyboard, iTunes, media player, control panel). It took me forever to get my wife and sons to use the one on the keyboard only.

It's not that picture quality has NO importance, it's just that I have priorities and that one is rather low. My wife has the HDTV and watches through the TV speakers. She likes TV speakers! I hate them, I'm the music person, she's the TV person. After buying her the HD, I took her 9 year old heavily watched pic tub set that still works perfectly (Sony for ya) and put it in my system. Since the receiver only has composite vid, when I do upgrade, bypassing the receiver will have to be done in order to realize the picture quality of blu-ray and HDTV. The sound will remain in stereo.
 

Gold Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 1849
Registered: Oct-07
RE: picture quality of TV.

A reasonably cal'd picture IS better than most of the over-hot, too richly colored images which are standard. Just go to a store with a lineup of sets and they are all different. The broadcast standard....NTSC really means No Two Same Color.
The EASY way to get a big improvement in you home TV picture is to get one of the available calibration discs.
I have DVE....Digital Video Essentials which includes basic adjustments for color, contrast, sharpness and brightness. Additional adjustments and test screens are available for overscan and some other things.
In the 'old days' a set would NOT have full RGB control but now it is, I hope, common. Sometimes you have to go to an advanced menu. The professional ISF guy (imaging science foundation) will have all the software and knowledge of all the menus. I've been into the advanced menus of my Sony SXRD of maybe 4 or 5 years age. Believe me when I tell you to NOT TOUCH ANYTHING in these menus. I stuck with the standard RGB and other simple adjusts. I recorded my starting point and could go back if I really messed up.
The DVE disc also includes color gels to look thru at the color bars on-screen. You adjust until a certain condition is met. For maybe 2 hours total time, and less if you are good, you can really help your picture.
The first set I cal'd was a round front Panasonic 36" crt. Between the cal and the power conditioner, the picture was downright impressive. Noise free because of the power conditioner and excellent color with terrific shadow detail, it was easy to watch and people DID notice. 'How much did that set cost?' When I sold it, the picture was still tops.

For your computer? A 'spyder' and software works fine. Just plug the spider in to a USB port, run the software and make sure the spyder is in the color spot. My Spyder is an inexpensive Huey and provides a real good color profile on Windows or Mac system. I can now print exactly what I see on screen. My (outsource) printer appreciates the extra work I do to get a good print and has provided me with HIS color printer profile so I can work with that before sending him a file.
 

Silver Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 349
Registered: Oct-10
Thanks Leo that's helpful. The screen is fine for now. Now that the wife & sons know to use the volume control on the keyboard only and I've hidden the equalizer, things are better all around.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Plymouth

Canada

Post Number: 15629
Registered: Jan-08
"But why is this so Plymouth? What's in the receiver that's harming the picture and how bad is the damage?"

Super

Jan explained well the problem with componants, no lost with HDMI, over 4' the componants lose gradualy the shaprness even with expensive cable!


For the PC to TV, I use a good Radeon Graphic card with HDMI output using 1080p point by point on my 52" Aquos!

This Aquos consume 350 watts, 3 times my old 10 years rear projection 61" RCA, the Aquos has a brightness as bright as any Plasma TV's.
 

Silver Member
Username: Superjazzyjames

Post Number: 366
Registered: Oct-10
Okay, thanx Plym and everyone. All questions are answered.
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