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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1140 Registered: May-05 | Hello All, Thanks for following along on my Best Integrated Under $1000 link. I thought I'd start a new one since that link ended with speaker talk. As those who followed know, I decided to take the jump into new speakers and decided to purchase the Salksound SongTowers brand new from Jim Salk. By the way, what a great guy to talk with about speakers in general and his in particular. I started talking to Jim over a year ago with my interest leaning to the HT3s and HT2s that he makes. Interestingly, Jim told me not to go that far up his line. At the time, I was using the Fisher Integrated tube amp with 35wpc. Jim told me that this wasn't enough power to run either of these speakers to their potential and he also advised me that the HT3s would overwhelm my room. Instead, he recommended going down the line to the SongTowers. Well, a couple of things came up at the time and the new speakers were put on hold for awhile. Enter the new amp and a lucky deal with my TV, discussed in the prior link and another fortunate deal, and I was in the mode to look at new speakers. I tried locally, OUCH as you know, and went back to the SongTowers. I was incredibly happy and waiting for the 45-60 days that it takes Jim to build these babies. While this wait was going, I continued to read about other speakers, listened to some B&Ws that a friend owns and went back to listen to some Paradigms in a shop in Tri-Cities when I was down there for depositions. After the additional experience, I decided I'd stick with what I ordered. Then, I made the mistake (not sure that's the right word now) of doing a search on Audiogon for Salksound speakers. (As I explained in my earlier amp link, Jim's speakers seldom show up and they even less seldom last long.) Up jumped 5 pairs, including a slightly used set of SongTowers and a set of HT2-TLs in an audio shop in upstate New York. Well, making a long story only somewhat shorter, I emailed and called the owner of the store. I learned that the HT2-TLs were actually Jim Salk's speakers and they were in the store as an audition set while Jim was building Bill Baker a set of his own HT2-TLs. Bill suggested that I call Jim directly to talk further about the speakers. Turns out Jim had them out for an extended review, got them back in the shop and went through them completely and sent them to Bill Baker a couple of months ago. Bill told me they were in perfect condition except for a small bump on lower back, possibly a vacuum cleaner boo boo. (I've already warned the wife about attacking the speakers with any vacuum.) After a discussion with Jim and after reminding him about my amp upgrade, Jim agreed that I would probably enjoy the HT2-TLs more than the SongTowers and he understood he was likely losing an upgrade customer in the future. Now, the real problem, convincing the wife. Well, I pulled out my best lawyer analyzing/negotiation tools and sat down and provided her with a cost/benefit analysis of purchasing the SongTowers, using them for 2-3 years and then selling them used and then buying a new pair of HT2-TLs at a higher purchase price, after the HT2-TLs were 10% or more expensive sometime in the future. Amazingly, she agreed that it made more sense just to get the HT2-TLs now and avoid that whole purchase, sale and re-purchase scenario. So, I got back with Jim and we are in the process of working out the shipping costs and the like. (By the way, it didn't hurt to show my wife a picture of these speakers - Jim may do some of the best wood work of any manufacturer in the world.) I'll post the Audiogon link but for some reason I have no luck getting it to post as a hyperlink so maybe someone with better posting skills than I can get a hyperlink there. Thanks for reading and I'll let you guys know more when they arrive and I've had a listen. Also, I am happy to host anyone who would like to see and hear the HT2-TLs after they arrive. (These things are beasts - about 90lbs a piece or more.) Also, I'm posting a link to the only professional review I've found on these speakers and what makes the review even more interesting to me is that the reviewer purchased a pair of Jim's SongTowers after reviewing them earlier so he could do a very good A/B comparison and assess the cost differential as well. http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1293036357&/Salk-Sound-Ht2-Tl-Ro sewood-Fin http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/salk-sound-veracity-ht 2-tl |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 262 Registered: Dec-07 | Congrats on the Salks. They look amazing and have great reviews as well. I have been looking at them for a while now and would like to purchase a pair of the HT2-TL's as well, but it's too much $$ right now. I would need to upgrade my amp first, so I'll have to wait a while. Anyways please update after you have had a chance to have a good listen to them. Oh, what finish did you get? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13420 Registered: Feb-05 | Good job! You must post pics of the new setup when you get it all back in order. |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1141 Registered: May-05 | Thanks guys, The pair are a Rosewood finish. I'm not sure if they're the pau ferro Rosewood on Jim's gallery page but Jim explained that they were an early pair that were made for him and then they started wandering. I'll post photographs of the new set-up and especially the speakers, Art. I almost forgot the "bad news" of the whole thing, I'll never get to hear and see the SongTowers that Jim was working on. Oh well, maybe I'll run a pair down sometime to listen to from a Salk customer. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13422 Registered: Feb-05 | http://pic8.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1287852206.jpg |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1820 Registered: Oct-07 | That bookmatch / resaw is brutal....and Very Well Done. |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1142 Registered: May-05 | Art, Sometime, you'll have to explain how you do that, I simply cannot get it to work on here with a simple cut and paste when that works on every other site I wander into. But, yes, that's a picture of my new babies. I'm just glad I don't have to change their diapers that would be a large mess. LOL Leo, you're absolutely right about the wood work. I have to admit that I have spent hours on Jim's site looking at his "Galleries" section and drooling over some of the speakers. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13424 Registered: Feb-05 | It's the button just to the left of the emoticons. |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1144 Registered: May-05 | See, I knew you were brilliant. I would never have turned that button into the famous hyperlink. |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1145 Registered: May-05 | Here's the hyperlink to the HT2-TL speaker review, I hope. This is assuming I can follow Art's simple directions. http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/salk-sound-veracity-ht 2-tl |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13426 Registered: Feb-05 | Well done! Nice review BTW. |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1146 Registered: May-05 | I'm not excited or anything. The speakers are supposed to arrive tomorrow. The plithes and feet arrived on Friday. Now, if I just has something to connect them to it would be nice. BTW, I moved the old speakers out, connected up some Blue Jeans interconnects between the Unico and my CDP before I moved them out. Noticed that the new interconnnects opened things up some so I'm really looking forward to using the new interconnects and hooking up the Blue Jeans speaker cables to these babies. It's all set up and ready to go. More to come, including pictures if I can figure out how to download them. I really am reasonable tech competent just not that familiar with this site. Tomorrow tomorrow, it's only a day away!!!! |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1122 Registered: Jul-07 | Hopefully today's the day Dak. Keep us posted. |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1148 Registered: May-05 | Hey Guys, This is classic. FedEx has the speakers on their truck for delivery on Monday. No speakers. Multiple phone calls and they said they deliver up until midnight, especially with "bad weather". (We hadn't had snow in 3 days.) I waited up until midnight, still no speakers. Call first thing Tuesday morning to see when they will be delivered. FedEx has no idea, they're still on the truck for delivery. I explain that I had someone stay home Friday and Monday to receive them but can't get that arranged on Tuesday. They promise to call before delivering the speakers. (For you optimists, no I didn't miss the attempted delivery). Finally, at 9:00 p.m., I call and ask where the speakers are and they don't know except, "they're on the truck for delivery." I ask if they can take them off the truck so I can just come to their facility and get them and the supervisor says they can't do that until they've made an attempt at delivery. With dripping sarcasm, I ask if that means that I will neve get the speakers. . . long pause . . . "What do you mean?" Well, if you never attempt to deliver them, I will never get them, right? They'll just sit in the truck forever? Another long pause . . . "I dunno". Needless to say, the speakers didn't show up on Tuesday because - "bad weather". Of interest, on the way home from work, I passed a UPS truck about 2 blocks from my house out on deliveries. Our office does over $20,000 a year exclusively with FedEx, you can imagine my confidence in them when I asked the supervisor "what I am to assume when UPS can manage to get the job done in this weather but FedEx can't, should I take my business elsewhere?" Answer, "I don't have the authority to answer that." Obviously, no speakers arrived on Tuesday either. Day 3 on the FedEx truck. I don't know where it is. They don't know where it is. I'm really wondering at this point if they have lost the speakers and they simply don't want to own up. The "original" delivery date was last Friday - 11/26/10 - I'm glad this wasn't one of my critical overnight work packages that I've sent out several times with FedEx during the last 3 days. I'll report on how they sound if they ever show up. Dave |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13573 Registered: Feb-05 | Sorry for the trouble, Dave. All carriers can mess up that's for sure. I have good luck with UPS and they are convenient for me but I understand that bad things happen with all of them. Hopefully today they show up late. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 477 Registered: Oct-10 | You might want to complain to their corporate office. Throw words like unprofessional, irresponsible, incompetent, etc in there a lot. Your speakers are NOT cheap and neither is the delivery. Make sure to tell them that in the future you only plan to buy from companies that ship UPS. (It's okay to bluff). |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1151 Registered: May-05 | Art and Super, It is true that all carriers can goof up. As I explained, if they had updated their web page and explained a "weather" delay on the initial Friday delivery. Ok, I'm not happy but I can understand. Instead, I have my son miss part of his work day to wait for the speakers and I come home early to relieve him. Same thing on Monday when they're "on the truck for delivery". Yesterday, my wife and I had to alternate being in the neighborhood because "they were on the truck for delivery." Then, not 30 minutes after I posted the above, I got a call telling me that they were going to deliver this afternoon so I called my son and asked him to go over to our house to cover until they arrived. They didn't show so I came home early at 3 p.m. so he could go to work and guess what, it's 5:30 p.m. and still no speakers. So, I will be complaining and I will be demand that they refund the shipping costs because this is beyond ridiculous. If they had left them in their facility Monday, I could have picked them up and avoided all this. I'm not sure why, at this point, it's incumbent upon me to continue to accommodate their inept delivery scheduling. Yep, I'm ticked. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13574 Registered: Feb-05 | Yep...you definitely are ticked...with good reason. Deep belly breaths my friend, it will work out. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 847 Registered: Dec-06 | I'm sure we all have our Fed Ex or UPS horror stories. Personally, I've had no problems with Fed Ex, but UPS is another story. Why it's this way for me but not you is hard to say. I suspect that the Fed Ex division here is better run than UPS, but that clearly isn't the same everywhere. I hope you get your speakers soon, Dak. They will probably turn up. I've never had a courier lose something before. Ridiculous delays, sure, but not outright losing things. I know it does happen though. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1885 Registered: Oct-07 | A magazine recently did some test shipping with a recording accelerometer to measure how badly the package was (mis)handled. They tested the 'big 3) UPS, Fed Ex and USPS. Seems that marking the package 'Fragile' was a sure way to ensure worse handling. I'll try to find a link if anyone is seriously interested. They did enough trials to even see a pattern. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1128 Registered: Jul-07 | I'd like to say I'm surprised.....but not at all. This happens so often it's rediculous. I truly hope this gets resolved soon Dak. I'd let the shipper know your experience as well. Enough complaints they'll start using someone else......not that I can think of a better option. |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1152 Registered: May-05 | Thanks for all the commiserating guys. The speakers finally showed up just before 7:00 p.m. The driver was a nice guy so I didn't take it out on him - plus the speaker packages were about 97 lbs. a piece so I needed his help to get them in the door - LOL. Then, I wrestled them down the stairs to my listening room. I learned I'm not in quite as good of shape as I used to be and I'm a little sore today. Both boxes were wet and one was pretty soaked. Bill Baker at Response Audio is my hero as he did an incredible job using Jim Salk's original materials and some of Bill's own packaging materials to protect the speakers. One of 1 1/2 thick foam pieces that was protecting the front of the speakers was absolutely pulverized but the speakers came through with no bumps, bruises or marks. So, that's the good news. I had a meeting last night so I didn't get much time to listen after they were unpacked, plithes and speakers put together and everything set up. What little I did hear was pretty amazing. I'll start a new thread for my listening experience and I'll try to post some pictures. Art, I'll probably need your help again. BTW Art, I think you're going to want to visit me in Spokane or go see what one of the guys in Eugene that has a pair of Jim's speakers. The first listen was pretty spectacular. Dave |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 504 Registered: Oct-10 | Kudos for not killing the messenger. Congrats on finally getting them! I'll looking forward to your next thread. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13577 Registered: Feb-05 | Excellent, Dave. Looking forward to pics and impressions. |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1311 Registered: May-05 | Hey, it's almost the speaker's birthday. So, what do I think a year later? Well, it's not as easy to answer as you may think. I've spent a year getting to know these speakers while upgrading my amp, all my speaker and power cables, added a power conditioner and then a new CD player. With every upgrade I noted an improvement in so many areas but something wasn't quite right, even though it sounded much better than where I started. So, I started working on speaker set-up and placement and some minor room treatments and a new equipment stand. Again, better sound, improved soundstage and dynamics but still not quite what I was hoping for. Maybe it's my ears? Well, 3 weeks ago, I decided to buy a CD used to assist in testing multiple variables in the speaker set-up, phasing, wiring, etc. and it also had a "repeat" play track for continuous play to break things in. The system has now been run in about another 100 hours and I started listening critically this last Saturday to a number of CDs that I've listened to many times. I had one of those "ah ha" moments over the weekend. I noticed a very good separation in the soundstage of the instruments and vocalists to the point where I could close my eyes and clearly place guitar, bass, drums, vocalist, marimbas, whatever and the soundstage was outside the speaker width, quite high and deep. I don't want to say I haven't had it before but this was the most distinct, clearest separation and it really added to the "you are there" feel of listening to the music. More importantly, it had the "goose bump" effect where you suddenly forget you're listening to speakers and you only hear the music. This was the final piece of the puzzle and it wasn't one that I knew I was missing. I had played with speaker placement so many times, used Jan's method for keeping track of the movements and I thought I had them "dialed in" but it is amazing what a couple of inches here or there can do when you hit the absolute sweet spot. So, a year later and a few thousand bucks down, I'm as close to audio nirvana as I can be and I don't know that spending a bunch more would have gotten me any closer. After all, I recognize it could have gone badly given the way I had to pull this system together but I have to thank my friends here with bearing with me, giving great advice, reminding me to wait until everything comes together and forcing me to be patient. I haven't written much because work sucks and I've used my free time to try and get to this point. So, as the holidays approach, I just want to say thanks to my friends here and Happy Thanksgiving. Eat a bunch and enjoy your families. Then, go listen to something that moves you. I will. Dave |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittStamford, Connecticut USA Post Number: 4497 Registered: May-05 | As Col. Hannibal fromThe A Team used to say, I love it when a plan comes together. Glad you're enjoying your system. I guess this is proof positive that the room/speaker interface is the most important thing. Everything makes a difference, but if the room and placement within it isn't up to snuff, component upgrades and tweaks won't let you know what you've got. It's been an interesting year for me too, as I'm sure it's been interesting for all of us. My beautiful daughter will turn a year old on Sunday. It's been the absolute best year of my life, yet the most difficult at the same time. I'm sure everyone here with children will whole-heartedly agree. |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1312 Registered: May-05 | Stu, Give her a big hug and let her eat whatever she wants so long as it is strained turkey, pears or peaches and peas. YUM!!! It's true on the system. The sound was a huge upgrade from Day 1 and it just kept getting better. But, that very last little bit that makes it all incredible took tons of fiddling, listening and learning. Dave |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1437 Registered: Jul-07 | Thanks for the update Dave. "But, that very last little bit...." You mean, latest bit. There is no last bit. Not in audio. But that's a good thing, right ? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 14874 Registered: Feb-05 | Glad you are enjoying your setup, Dave. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone here.Take time to enjoy your family's as there is never any guarantees for tomorrow. |
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Gold Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 1130 Registered: Dec-06 | Nice to hear your baby girl is doing well, Stu. And that you are satisfied with your system, Dave, one year in. My system has been pretty set as well, but I continue to try this and that to find an even better combo. Have not found one yet and it may be time to stop. . At the end of the day I think I've got a decent room...small, but carpeted and furnished, ensuring breakup of reflections but it's still lively enough. What I needed was proper positioning and set up, and to find components that work well together, and I now have that. It's too bad this forum is pretty much a wasteland. A lot less interesting than it was a few years ago. Never much discussion of home audio anymore outside of perhaps one thread at any given time. Anyways, all the best to end the year. I took this week off, in part to watch football in a couple of days. Should be a great day with some good looking matchups. And will be going to see GN'R in a few days - woohoo! |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1313 Registered: May-05 | Chris, How true, how true. Art, you have no idea how prophetic your words are. I had a deposition today and used my regular court reporter. I've known her for 20 years and have gotten to be friends with her husband, who was an amazing guy. When she came in, I noticed she had a picture of Phil on her screen saver, which is unusual as they have 6 kids and it's usually a group picture. She noticed me looking at the picture and asked, "you know about Phil, right?" I said, what, he bought a new bike, watch, what? She said, "no, he died 2 months ago." Then, she went on to explain her husband, a 54 year old who worked out regularly, including on the day he died, had a sudden heart attack and died within 20 minutes. As she started crying, I gave her a big hug and thought, wow, how quickly life can change. So, what Art said. Dan, glad to hear you've hit that "sweet spot" as well. I agree that it doesn't seem to be as lively here but it's still great to check in occasionally and hear how and what everyone is doing. HAPPY THANKSGIVING GUYS!!!! |
