5 Ways To Save Audiophila From The Snobs That Want The Hobby Dead

 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3262
Registered: Oct-04
http://hometheaterreview.com/5-ways-to-save-audiophila-from-the-snobs-that-want- the-hobby-dead/

From Home Theater Review

5 Ways To Save Audiophila From The Snobs That Want The Hobby Dead - By: Jerry Del Colliano

True audiophiles are a strange breed. Since the American musical renaissance of the late 1960's, Baby Boomers have enjoyed the best in music. Many of them took their love of music into a quirky hobby known as audiophilia. Personally, I don't wish it on anybody because audiophiles get off more on audio gear than the music itself, but the 'philes for nearly a generation have built a cottage industry around high-dollar, esoteric audio equipment designed to take the listener as close as they can get to the master tape as physically possible. Now that's a goal worth of chasing; however there are some inside the audiophile movement who want to see it die with the Baby Boomers thanks to their uber-retro attitude towards new technology and music and the way we interact with music.

Audiophila started in the days of vinyl, but boomed most during the post-1982 Compact Disc era despite the cries from the geeks who think that the higher signal to noise ratio and lack of dynamic range of vinyl records somehow sounds "better" than digital audio, even when digital audio reached HD standards with SACD and DVD-Audio. These are the same people taking about, writing about and publishing hype about a resurgence of vinyl when the total U.S. sales numbers in 2009, according to Nielsen-Soundscan for ALL vinyl records will barely top 2,000,000 units. That's not just for one popular title (note: Thriller sold close to 47,000,000 units) - that's a total sold for all of the new vinyl records. Allow me to translate - vinyl is and remains dead, even if Millenials like to retro-shop at Amoeba Records for old, used records. Used records do not an HD format make or are a meaningful business, nor are Millennial teeny-boppers buying Goldmund turntables and fancy phono stages for their iPod-based playback systems. The new blood must be embraced, but they also need to be sold to with products that they understand, and that means something a little more high definition than a crappy old LP or a 30 year old standard definition Compact Disc. Case in point: EA Sports Madden 2010 football reportedly sold 3,900,000 units in its first quarter at over $50 retail per title. Make the content compelling, HD, and riveting and people will pay big bucks for it like a top video game title. Down-res music to sell to the lowest common denominator and you have music that's sold, ripped and stolen for an iPod, phone or computer system.

There are those who say that the audiophile business can't be saved from itself, and they make a compelling argument. They say the people who made the business special are gone or in diminished roles. They say dealers sell video over audio despite the thin video profit margins because video is easier to sell to consumers who believe what they see more than what they hear. They say that specialty dealers don't offer any "special" experiences at the store, including relevant, high-value audio systems, so consumers take the low-cost option and buy from big-box stores to save money in tough times.

I can see all of the above arguments as valid but I think at the same time, that people love music more today in 2010 than ever before. The iPod has given hundreds of millions of people access to thousands of songs all-day, every-day for every part of their lives. These people, just like Baby Boomers who got started young with transistor radios, likely will want something a little more high end for their music down the road, and that's the power I see potentially saving specialty audio going forward.

Here are five ideas to save the audiophile business:
1. Bring New Blood To The Game:
a. Invite over your kid's friends to do a vinyl, CD and iPod blind listening test. Whoever gets it right gets a special prize (dinner out, $20 for the mall, let them drive your Ferrari to the prom). Teach them to listen a little more critically. Ask them to describe the sound of each format in terms that they are comfortable with.
b. Organize a Battle of the Bands with a local high school music program, a local recording studio and a local AV store that supports audio. Pick a theme, and have five bands play say, three Beatles cover tunes. The winning band gets a free pair of speakers or headphones or something. The recording studio comes out and records the event live in 24/192 (totally doable with a Mac laptop and about $2,000 in equipment and one person) and then produces DVD or Blu-ray discs of the performance that can ONLY be picked up at the local store. Parents will come in. They will also look at HD video and HD audio of their kids playing "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" or "A Day In The Life" at the store. Foot traffic, passion and enthusiasm are created with the kids and the parents who can buy the gear.
2. Buy Local
a. There are times when the deals on eBay, Audiogon and Craig's List are just too good to resist, but buying local helps support dealers that need your support. Make it known to the manager why you buy from their store, what you might want to see in the stores and beyond. Go so far as to email or write to the AV companies whose equipment the dealer sells. Let them know why you buy local and how you support the dealer. This builds community, support and opportunities for more demos and much more.
b. You can go out of state to save taxes, which a lot of people do on the East Coast. If you do this - don't cry when you can't get a good audiophile demo from your local store. Why should they floor a $10,000 preamp for a year when the order (note: I didn't call it a sale) goes to the guy 100 miles away, out of state, who didn't have to take any risk other than emailing in the purchase order.
3. Embrace New Technologies
a. AppleTV is pretty cool as are server-based systems like Kaleidescape and Sooloos. Take the time to rip, manage and control your music in new formats and don't be shocked to find out that you re-energize your own enthusiasm for music just like a new CD player or preamp used to do in the old days.
b. Even if you are rocking an EMM Labs $22,000 CD player at home, by taking an iPad with you on a trip and/or making it run your control system (Crestron and others have cool apps) will demonstrate how you can really expand your audio-video experience.
c. Replace all of your routers and wireless products with Gigabit capable products. This will allow you to have products like AppleTV and others running throughout the house so that kids can experience Internet radio, full resolution AIFF rips from your collection, movies, TV and more. Integrate these products into your audiophile system.
4. Support HD Music
a. There are labels that make niche music which are truly high end. B&W Society of Sound is paired with the likes of the London Symphony Orchestra and Peter Gabriel.
b. Smaller labels like 2L records from Norway have some way-out-there but good sounding music on Blu-ray and SACD right in the same package. AIX Records is also coming on strong on the Blu-ray space.
c. SACD still lives on for some labels like Mobile Fidelity, Linn Records and others. SACD is better than CD yet sells in small volumes. Go out of your way to buy music in HD as even one disc sold helps.
5. Reject The Audiophile Culture of Snobbery
a. Ever walk into an audiophile store and have some idiot salesman ignore you to tell you that you don't have the money to listen to the high end gear? If this ever happens to you - take down the guy's name and write a letter to the companies whose gear you wanted to audition. If you don't know the people to email - I do and I will forward your email. More people need to hear high end audio and don't need to be discouraged.
b. Cancel your subscriptions to publications that preach retro technologies and ancient ways of doing things. It's bullshit to suggest that vinyl is booming, but there are print mags in the audiophile world that say it's true. It's garbage to suggest that a Compact Disc player sounds better than an HD disc like a native DSD SACD or 24/192 DVD-Audio or an audio-oriented Blu-ray, yet there are magazines who promote this kind of retro-snobbery. They don't have many subscribers left and for good reasons. The reviews that you want are posted online for free and they are better.
c. Even if your system is an ultra-high-end, apex predator - know about the good, affordable gear. Oppo, Benchmark, Anthem, NuForce, Emotiva, Anthem, NAD, PSB, Paradigm and many other brands. Dozens more. Most HomeTheaterReview.com reviewers got hooked on high end AV gear from owning early NAD receivers. As we call them - they were "the gateway drug" to bigger and more expensive additions. The new value players are the same thing - a starting point or building block to a high end AV system.

Post some of your ideas and comments as to how you would save the audiophile business/hobby. Let us know if you think that it is dead and/or beyond repair. Would you help organize our Battle of the Bands idea? What would you do to promote music, AV and the arts to kids who only really know MP3-level audio but likely could eventually develop a taste for something better.
 

Gold Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 1014
Registered: Jul-07
6. Expose your kids to the listening experience, share music with them, and listen to what they are listening to. There's as much snobbery related to music as their is audio.

7. Buy from the little guy.....both manufacturer, and retailer. That's where a lot of the affordable innovation comes from.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3937
Registered: May-05
Not a bad article at all. But, vinyl still does a lot of things that digital doesn't, in a good way.

There are way too many snob hifi shops. Maybe it's my area, but probably not.

The best way to get young people into good sound is affordable gear that plays what they have - digital music. Companies like Peachtree have hit the nail on the head IMO.

I'd say the Naim Uniti does too, but it's way more than most young people would be willing to spend, even if they could afford it. The UnitiQute is about $2k, so maybe there's some potential there.

The biggest thing the manufacturers and dealers need to do is advertise. It's expensive, but they can share the cost. I've seen Rolex commercials on TV that also mention the local dealers. Why can't hifi do the same? You're not going to get new customers if they've never heard of you.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3263
Registered: Oct-04
I totally agree Stu, HARMAN actually did run a commercial during the Grammys



I once suggested that it might serve companies like McIntosh well to run a TV add once & a while just to get their name out there with the general public, but it was suggested that why would they want to do that when they are selling every single component they manufacture, and have carved-out a profitable niche in the marketplace, but cross-promoting local dealerships makes all the sense in the world to me.

I'm going to say something that might get me thown-off eCoustics, but it might even behoove a some of these top-tier companies to get on the Digital Music Player bandwagon to similarly get there name out there with the public, I can easily see a company like Harman, D&M Holdings (or whatever they're called now), or The Lenbrook Group slaping a name like Harman/Kardon, Marantz, or NAD on a portable player.

Damn, can you imagine how cool a McIntosh-styled player might look, blue-backlight meters & all!
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3938
Registered: May-05
I see what you're saying about some companies. Mac, Bryston, et al. are most likely at full manufacturing capacity. A lot of Bryston stuff is back ordered, and most Mac stuff requires a bit of a wait too. If they advertised, it would benefit the dealers. Maybe sales would increase to the point where they could open up a satellite factory too. Rega has two or three factories - speakers are made down the road from some electronics. Nothing wrong with that at all IMO, so long as it's still local and not overseas.

The main ones that would benefit would be the entry level companies like NAD, Rotel, and Marantz. They've got the backing to increase manufacturing through their parent companies (not sure about Rotel). Why not have an NAD commercial on TV with an "Available at these fine retailers" line at the end?

I heard a Marantz commercial on the radio the other day. No dealers mentioned, but it's a start. Haven't heard it since.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3264
Registered: Oct-04
A Marantz commercial aye, do you remember what station it was on?

I don't know what the future has in store for this business, truth be told, I am doing about 10X the listening on my MP3/Headphone combo as I do on either of my rigs, and it sounds damn good & doesn't involve anyone else (i.e. wife, neighbors, etc.).

My next audio purchase will not likely be a Hi-Fi component, but rather the new Microsoft Zune HD 64GB to pair up with my Ultimate Ears TripleFi 10vi.
 

Gold Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 1481
Registered: Oct-07
Stu, Sharing advertising costs is not uncommon.
Ford dealers in San Diego have a regional agreement. Ford cars USED to come with some kind of advertising kickback built in to the cost.
Dealer holdbacks are meant to help keep car dealers in business since the sales guy (typically) has NO access to such holdbacks which are paid to the dealer directly. Holdbacks can be paid quarterly. This defers 'lotting' expenses.

Now, do hi end dealers OWN there stock or is it on some kind of lease deal?
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3939
Registered: May-05
I'm pretty sure the hifi dealers own the stuff. Otherwise they'd probably have a lot more stuff on display, and which segways into my next thing...

Hey Chris M (and everyone else)...

Did you hear about our favorite Manhattan hifi shop?

Sound By Singer can't renew their lease. They're selling everything off for what appears to be cost. Their website lists their entire inventory, list price, and sale price.

That's the only way I'd give those clowns a dime of my money.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3940
Registered: May-05
If the hifi industry is going to survive into the next generation and thereafter, the whole industry needs to change, and change fast. Manufacturers not helping out their dealers and not keeping up with the next generation's demands, dealers being elitist snobs, and the consumers supporting their local economy.

It seems like the manufacturers and dealers are waiting for this whole digital music fad and even the Internet fad to die out.

The good dealers are fewer and further between.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3265
Registered: Oct-04
Thanks Stu, I had not heard that. I don't like those pretentious SOBs one bit, but I'll be glad to help take their inventory of their hands

Lyric Hi-Fi must be doing back-flips in joy.

There's a lot of that going around, I heard today that Grimaldi's Pizza in Brooklyn is losing their lease as well.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3266
Registered: Oct-04
http://www.soundbysinger.com/high-end-video/product_385
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3941
Registered: May-05
As far as portable stuff goes, my iPods (Classic and iPhone) and Etymotic ER6i in ear monitors sound excellent.

I've got a Ray Samuels Tommahawk portable amp, ALO cryo connector and Etymotic ER4s IEMs that are boxed up and used a handful of times if you're interested. I bought them when I was traveling a lot, but changed jobs shortly after.

The ER4s sounds fantastic. I've got 2 pairs. They need an amp to sound right. If you're looking for a pair to use at home, let me know. The second pair was only used for about a minute to make sure they worked.

Please don't take that like a sales pitch. Just letting you know if you're contemplating anything like that.

Did I say I'm a big fan of the Etys?
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3267
Registered: Oct-04
You did now Stu...

I'm pretty good with headphones, the Alessandro MS-1, UE Super.Fi 5 & TripleFi 10vi, JBL 410, Sennheiser HD201...some others...

I've only heard great things about the Etys.

I have a DIY "Chu Moy" amp that works nice, but it isn't in the same class as the Ray Samuels gear, in any case, I never use it anymore.

The Zune HD supposedly outperforms the iPod in SQ from most of what I've read, plus it has an HD Radio tuner, and a OLED screen, so I'm pretty keen on getting one.

But getting back to an earlier point, isn't it surprising no high-end audio company has jumped into the portable market yet?
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3943
Registered: May-05
I don't think its lucrative enough for them. The head-fi market is pretty small, even compared to the hifi market.

James Tanner from Bryston was asked why they don't make a dedicated headphone amp. Reading between the lines, he said they wouldn't sell enough to turn a profit, and it would take up too much assembly line space/time and storage space.

I think the head-fi crowd would love something from Bryston like companies, but I can see why they wouldn't do it. It makes sense for a one-man show like Ray Samuels or Vinnie Rossi (Red Wine Audio), but not someone like McIntosh. The one-man show's probably have to make a few dozen to break even, whereas bigger companies would probably have to make a few hundred. Selling a few hundred portable and/or home headphone amps wouldn't be very easy. They've got different followers IMO.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3268
Registered: Oct-04
I wasn't necessarily talking about headphone amps, though I'm not opposed to the idea, but a digital player, perhaps one that doubles as a remote and/or integrates seamlessly into an integrated amp or receiver? Just an idea.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 3146
Registered: Jun-07
Chris - Great article, and Bryston has a digital Music player coming out in the fourth quarter of this year. I would to of seen it with a DAC but I can understand why they didnt go that route. They are also designing a web based streamer as well to pair with it.

http://www.hereshow.ca/TechNews/BrystonOffersDigitalMusicPlayerWithoutDACsorStor age.html
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3270
Registered: Oct-04
It seems Bryston is taking steps to remove discs from the equation, something I thought would happen eventually. It's curious that they only chose to include only a USB thumbdrive interface, and not a SD Card as well?...And yes, this would have been much more attractive if it had included a DAC, but why sell one components when you can sell two; a sucker is born every minute.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3946
Registered: May-05
Reading about it on the Bryston Circle, they omitted a lot of stuff from it that caused noise during development. They were after ultimate sound quality.

I think James Tanner said they wanted as pure a music signal as possible before passing it onto a DAC. I think the BDA-1 was actually developed for that streamer, and they added more inputs for flexibility.

While agree with most manufacturers making more boxes to sell more stuff, James Tanner has told several potential BDA-1 customers on the Bryston Circle that connecting the BDA-1 to the BCD-1 isn't worth the cost. He said they're better off with either or, depending on application, than buying both. Saying that pubicly says something.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3947
Registered: May-05
Another great attempt to bring in the masses, IMO - The Wadia 151 PowerDAC mini.

http://www.avguide.com/review/wadia-151-powerdac-mini-combination-integrated-amp dac-playback-33
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3271
Registered: Oct-04
That Wadia 151 is cute, but lacks the balls to hang with the BIG BOYS. The Peachtree Nova is a better executed unit IMO.

Bryston seems to be a company on the up & up, so I wouldn't expect any less from Mr. Tanner.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 15310
Registered: Dec-04
A negative review in some respects, but resonably straight forward.
The peachtree is better at most stuff.

The one response suggested that 7k$ speakers would make this unit best. missed the point.

Get a kid into a setup like this and watch the smiles while learning about room acoustics.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3948
Registered: May-05
Have you guys heard the Peachtree and/or Wadia? Any impressions?

My system may have to completely change. More on that later...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 13043
Registered: Feb-05
The Peachtree is great with mp3 and other compressed audio. Not nearly as good with vinyl, too soft.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 755
Registered: Dec-06
That Bryston is shockingly expensive. Then again perhaps not so shocking as $2K seems to be the floor for them. For what the unit does can you imagine many of the other well known brands charging so much? I don't doubt the quality at all, but when you price that not too far below the price of a BCD-1 or Rega Saturn, it just seems really excessive.

Interesting article...maybe we are lucky in the GTA, but there are lots of good dealers out here. There's got to be at least a dozen within a 2 hour drive, most of which I've had good experiences at. Sure some are a bit more pushy than others, and some have questionable advice, but you have to remember that you are dealing with different people who are coming from different places.

I think the writer generalized a lot about sources. Vinyl sounds sweet, and not all high res digital is better than redbook. Even some vinyl isn't that hot. It all depends on the care taken when recording an album. The best recordings showcase what each format is capable of, and each can knock your socks off.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3272
Registered: Oct-04
That's a BIG area, I live in NYC, and a 2-hour drive puts me in Philadelphia!...Not exactly what I'd call my backyard.

Sure there are bad recordings in every format, but when comparing apples to apples, the superior technology should prevail.

Within 5-years I say it's all moot; the next generation of audiophiles will be downloading & dumping everything onto (hopefully solid-state) multi-TB drives, and CDs, SACDs, even Blu-Rays & Gaming discs, with all go the way of the wax-cylinder & 8-tracks.

Then we can all get back to the fun stuff: amps, speakers, and headphones
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 3147
Registered: Jun-07
lol yup, multi TB drives is getting very cheap.

Considering the Bryston music player is basically a PC with a Linux Disc on module chip for its brains I would say that 2K is pretty steep. However, its probably built like a tank (of course) and comes with a 5 year warranty which in PC hardware land is almost impossible to come by, other than hard drives which it does not have. I would like to see them add a 2.5inch solid state hard drive to it once that technology becomes affordable. They are at least going in the right direction.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3273
Registered: Oct-04
Still, why no SD Card slot?
 

Silver Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 756
Registered: Dec-06
My CD collection won't vanish into thin air, and I have no desire to copy all 200 or whatever discs to HDD. So I'll be using a CD player for a long time to come.

I guess 2 hours isn't that short a drive, but to me it's not that bad. You can't really expect a dozen stores all within walking distance.

As for format, for sure DVD-A and SACD is better than CD all things being equal. But compared to vinyl, I just see two formats that can both produce brilliant results and each one has it's own strengths and weaknesses and signature sound. Just depends on what you prefer.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 15318
Registered: Dec-04
Phono!
 

Gold Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 1016
Registered: Jul-07
"The Peachtree is great with mp3 and other compressed audio. Not nearly as good with vinyl, too soft."

I don't know that I'd describe it that way Art. I think the strength of the Peachtree units is the DAC. The amp is good, not great. The DAC is not just good at making MP3's sound listenable, but it makes lossless files sound fantastic. These units are very versatile and well executed. The amp section is certainly as good or better than the typical stuff in that price range. And considering you get a great DAC and good amp for around $1000, that's a nice package.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 15320
Registered: Dec-04
CH, that does not take into account the phono stage, which i think Art was meaning.
Yeah, pfft, for the price, just doing one thing really well is good, 2 is a deal.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3274
Registered: Oct-04
I'm as nostagic as the next guy, and I don't want to get into a vinyl vs. digital argument, but I think the recent "vinyl revival" is really the end-game as far as LPs go; and I know, if you're old enough, you've heard that before, but I really think it's done this time...I think...maybe.

And that doesn't mean LPs old & new are going away entirely, but they're not realavant to the conversation any longer IMO.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 3148
Registered: Jun-07
SD too Chris.

Dan - I can rip your 200 discs uncompressed in about two hours. Insert..take out..insert...take out...insert..take out.lol

The Disc is a dieing...
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 3149
Registered: Jun-07
You know whats funny. The LP is going to outlast the CD.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3275
Registered: Oct-04
SD isn't realavent Nick?
 

Gold Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 1485
Registered: Oct-07
Nick may be right.
There will always be a few diehards who will stick with vinyl. In a hundred years, someone will be hand winding cartridge coils, putting new tips on styli and doing mechanical repair and fabrication on then 'ancient' TTs. The Radio Shack Lab500 will be a sought after item.
CDs may still be available in hock shops and 'fringe' stores but I think it'll be harder to keep old CD players working then a good TT. It requires more than a hand fabricator can do to keep up on the laser. The NOS Laser market will eventually go away for lack of 'NOS'.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 3152
Registered: Jun-07
Chris- I definitely feel SD is relevant. How will the music stores keep a store front in 20 years? I feel SD (Or something similar but better by then) will be the store front purchased Digital music item.

Leo - So true. TT/LP's will outlast CD's IMO. DVD's gone in three years, CD's in 10. It wont be the death of the Disc, as I feel Blu Ray will stick around for some time.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 13047
Registered: Feb-05
LP's will never be done, Chris. I too am not going to get into the merits of any single format at this time. I believe as many here believe that the disc is near to death. I predicted it here many years ago when folks were debating which was going to win the SACD or the DVD-A...I said neither. Look it up. I stated that all discs would be replaced by a server. The only exception to that is the LP. A long many formats down the road, formats we aren't even thinking of now. There will still be the LP and there will still be a niche market for them. Long after the CD is a dinosaur there will be turntables and LP's...betcha by golly...wow!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 13048
Registered: Feb-05
Relative to the Peachtree amps. They have a very respectable DAC and a decent amp. Not an excellent amp and the sound leans in a direction that makes cheap digital not sound offensive which in turn is too soft a sound for good analog...that's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it...lol!

YMMV

BTW I'll be listening to the Nova again next week along with a bunch of other great gear over at a friends house.

http://eugenehifi.com/
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3951
Registered: May-05
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts, Art.

Not to backtrack, but I'm highly doubtfull the Peachtree stuff has a phono stage. I think that's what a few were implying earlier.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 3153
Registered: Jun-07
Yeah I don't think the peachTree has a phono. ?

Art- Imagine the server I could build you to manage the collection you have. Boy, that would be fun to build.lol. How many cd's again?
 

Silver Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 757
Registered: Dec-06
Nick, 200 discs in 120 minutes? I use EAC on what I think are the best quality settings. It would probably take a full day for that many discs, assuming they are all clean. Discs that need error correction take loooooooooong to rip...hours even.

Besides, there's something about handling physical media that many people still prefer. I'm sure I'll make the change eventually, but that'll be long after all the high end companies release their solutions, I see how things shake out (if SD cards become big then I want that feature) and I'll choose the one I like best. Heck, I just bought my first HDTV (a 23" Dell monitor). The Dell is the PC monitor and for the occasional movie. My Panasonic GAAO standard def 32" CRT will still serve as the primary TV, probably until it dies. I'm a bit stubborn - can't bring myself to throw away a perfectly working product.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 13051
Registered: Feb-05
2617 titles, Nick. That's about 4500 discs I do believe...might be fun!
 

Gold Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 1018
Registered: Jul-07
No, the Peachtree units don't do phono, but that's not what they're about. They're focused on digital audio, and making higher end audio accessible and appealing to a much broader audience. Single box and some decent speakers and you have yourself a package that will play very nicely indeed. The iDecco especially.....just dock and play. That's what this thread is about.

I realize that the people that prefer their analogue rigs will stick with them, and all the power to them. LP's on a good analogue rig are amazing. But, is ain't for the masses. It has to be easy to setup, largely maintenance free, and work with the toys of the day (ipods, laptops, iphones, etc). I think that's what Peachtree is after.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 13053
Registered: Feb-05
Pretty much.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 3156
Registered: Jun-07
Yeah the Peachtree is definitely the first one many more to follow. I would love to hear it. A product like that could get a lot of the younger generation into this hobby. "The I-Pod generation"

Dan- lol I totally get ya bud. Good plan on waiting a good while before going with any high end audio company making Music Servers as it will take them a bit to understand what they are doing. The first offerings of Digital Music Players from the big dogs has been lackluster to say the least. And yes, if the discs are dirty it would take longer.

Art- If you use WAV/FLAC, 4TB drive storage should do it, with a little left over.lol.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 15327
Registered: Dec-04
ripping 200 cd's to the MC takes about 400 minutes!

Feed the monster.

I can actually tell the MC to reclock or correct at a later date and refile.

Art, send me a 1T hard drive and a crate of cd's, I will rip for you.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3953
Registered: May-05
I completely understand the point of the Peachtree. I was the one who first said its the best way to get the masses into the hobby. I thought a few people thought it had a phono input, hence my post. Vinyl will never return to a mass market medium.

However, I highly doubt it'll go away within my lifetime. Unlike CDPs, they're easily repairable, like many people said. I think it'll take an ultra-high res format and impeccable recording quality as the standard to deviver its final death blow.

I understand the desire to have physical media, liner notes to hold in your hand, etc. I still have all my CDs that I ripped. Until I moved 2 weeks ago, my CD racks were still in the listening room. Now they're in a box in the basement. I didn't miss them much when they were within arm's reach, and I don't miss them now.

I'd never throw them out though. For back up and sentimental reasons. If I didn't have a good interface that let me see the album covers on the screen, maybe I'd miss them more.

Ripping took a while. It was a bit tedious. It was definitely worth it. I'd be hesitant with 4500 of them, but every journey begins with a single step.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 3159
Registered: Jun-07
You are so dead on Stu. A good interface with album covers, on screen linear notes is important. I keep my media as well for backup purposes but much prefer surfing through my music on the MC any day then surfing through a bunch of unorganized, space consuming plastic cases. Plus my Apollo had a hard time streaming my music wireless down to my theater.LOL! So much more at the touch of your fingertips. Like when Blu Ray format first hit the shelves, people will hesitate, but once they see what digital media players are capable of they will make the switch.

4500 cd's? Bring it on. I have 1487 on my unit now. Along with 436 dvd's/blu ray. Lots of pretty cover art and linear notes to go around.

I am catching you Art. 3000 to go. haha.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 13054
Registered: Feb-05
You have a few hundred DVD's to go as well!

Key here is that you said "I keep my media as well for backup purposes but much prefer surfing through my music on the MC any day then surfing through a bunch of unorganized, space consuming plastic cases". I don't have that. My CD's are organized by genre and then alphabetically and chronologically. I know right where to find each one.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3958
Registered: May-05
I had mine alphabetical by artist, then chronological by release date. Never more that on out at a time. OCD is a hell of a condition.

I don't get liner notes with my Apple TV. Just cover art. Looks good on the iPhone and even better on the TV.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 3164
Registered: Jun-07
lol wow Art, thats impressive. A lot of work, but impressive.

Nice Stu. I have full I-Phone and I-Pad remote control for the Media Center now. It shows the Music and Movie library just like it sees it on the tv. Pretty sweet apps. I figure I better get some support for the Apple folk. I also added full M4A support without I-Tunes.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kbear

Canada

Post Number: 758
Registered: Dec-06
Maybe I'm a bit OCD too. I've got my CDs organized alphabetically (by artist last name or the first name of a band) and then chronologically by release date. I've got my GN'R bootleg DVDs (75 or so concerts) organized chronologically. And then GN'R concerts (audio-only) on CD, maybe 75 of those, also organized chronologically. I also rate the quality of each and keep it all organized on MS Excel. I get set lists and notes for each gig online from this one site and I'll probably keep a copy of all those too, it's kind of like a chronological tracker. I've burned these shows onto Lightscribe discs and will create my own labels (I've done a few so far) with the set list on the disc itself. I even tack on a GN'R logo or two where there is room, and also from where the disc is sourced. It looks pretty cool. One day I'll probably get a nice colour printer and do some DVD case artwork for the videos. I'm slacking off on some of this work though, and there are still hundreds of other shows to get! I've got most of the best ones though.

 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 15336
Registered: Dec-04
Gee Nick, what prompted you to get the M4A support? haha
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3279
Registered: Oct-04
Nick, are you still in beta-testing, or is the MC is full-blown production?
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 3166
Registered: Jun-07
Chris - Thats cool bud.

Nuck- LOL!

Christopher - Beta for now. The product is complete but I say beta for the simple reason that its not ready to sell to strangers/dealers ( Manual, cut sheets and other marketing stuff). The hardware, software and functionality of the machine is complete. Manual is 95 percent complete as well.

I am working on a Digital Music Server/Player with no moving parts, can hold about 1800 uncompressed albums, SD card reader, optical/coax and USB for DAC support as well as a headphone amp, and built in burr brown 1793 internal dac. Also going to test a few others. Should come in at about 33 percent cheaper than the full Media Center as it wont have the dandy movie database and all the licenses involved in ripping movies as well as the HDMI that does all the HD surround sound formats. No blu ray support as well, and no dual Tuner TV support. Will come with similar music gui as the MC and can be easily be networked with it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3280
Registered: Oct-04
That's all great news.

The second one, the DMS/P, sounds fantastic! Will it do USB thumb drives?

Please keep me/us up to date. Do you have an eCoustics thread going on this evdevor?
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 3169
Registered: Jun-07
Thanks Chris. Yes it will do any USB storage device you like. External drives and Thumb drives and etc. Its been an idea I have had for a while but wanted to stay on track with one project at a time. Now its time. lol. I will start a thread once the parts are here. Should be fun and the great thing is there is no rush so I can really dampen it and perfect it IMO. Wait to you see the cooling system that is going in it. Three point, piped heat sinks with no fans for dead silent operation. Most likely is what companies like Bryston and NAIM used for their designs. Except I want mine to have a optical drive for ripping the cd's to it and store it. As well as do USB hard drives and external DACs. I want it to be complete, high end, and not crazy expensive.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3281
Registered: Oct-04
I can't wait to see it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 3170
Registered: Jun-07
Dan- Thats awesome. I let the MC do that for me guys but if you got the physical media its definitely good to have it organized. You guys seem to be taking care of things. Good stuff.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 3171
Registered: Jun-07
Thanks Chris. You guys will be the first to see it for sure.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 4223
Registered: Feb-07
Seems audio is alive and well, at least according to this article:

http://www.dealerscope.com/article/ceas-industry-forecast-found-home-audio-impro ving/1
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 15361
Registered: Dec-04
I wonder what % hi-fi makes of the $ amounts bantied about?
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Fort Hamilton, NY United States

Post Number: 3292
Registered: Oct-04
The whole industry is less than $1-billion/year?
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