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Emotiva ERC-1 CDP, any good?

 

Silver Member
Username: Jaw

Post Number: 266
Registered: Mar-06
FWIW, interesting thread, I think, unwinding over at audioreview:
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=31778
Peabody is one of the experienced resident homies, both technical and subjective knowledge-wise.

So far, the EMO CDP is a drop dead surprise performer for the money; it's been trashed on forum talk because nobody has compared it to anything of relative worth, but Peabody gots the equipment to compare it to. The NAD C545 paled in comparison - typical NAD sound with over emphasized bass and minimimized detail.

Also, one of the guys picked up a Music Fidelity xray CDP w/psu and they will meet for a face off with the EMO; the MF is on deal at audioadvisor for $799 down from about $2k.

Anyhow, with the generous return policy offered from Emotiva, I'm curious and pushed the button and bought the ERC-1 and wil be posting a Home Review in the near future.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jaw

Post Number: 267
Registered: Mar-06
http://emotiva.com/erc1.shtm
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3502
Registered: May-05
It looks like a nice CDP, JAW. I'd be interested in hearing how it works out for you.

My only criticism (features and looks-wise) is that it doesn't have a digital input. Not that its the only one that doesn't, but its becoming more and more common. IMO it should be a standard feature. Then again I'm no designer and have no idea if that's an easy or even cost effective task or not.

And while Musical Fidelity is usually technically very good, I find it a bit un-musical. Frank Abela has called it Musical Fatality several times. I agree.
 

Silver Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 527
Registered: Oct-07
Stu: How many CDPs have such inputs?
Does that feature become common at some price point?
While is wasn't a must for me, I will eventually use both such inputs on my CA player. The first use will be from a (proposed to wife) Apple Airport Express to feed music from the confuser. Waiting on a ruling, now.
Using the optic input will also make it ground-loop proof, at least by that connection.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3109
Registered: Feb-07
Interesting review JAW. I'd been curious about that CDP player. Seems kinda counter-intuitive for a internet direct company with a limited product line to be introducing a CDP (as opposed to a DAC, for example), but it's pretty cool to see.

Looking forward to your review!
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3110
Registered: Feb-07
Noticed how I managed to talk about Emotiva without saying anything bad? I'm over it now.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jaw

Post Number: 268
Registered: Mar-06
DM, you get an attaboy - live and let live.

Almost went for the CA640C, still might if they're left over for $350 plus shipping. Still can't talk myself into spending a grand+ on the 740/840C which is what I really want.

Almost went for the MF, but have absolutely no idea what to expect. At these closeout prices it just might be worth spinning the credit card and experimenting a little with the return offers.

We'll see how the EMO shakes out.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3111
Registered: Feb-07
haha - Thanks JAW. I'd considering ordering something from them, if I actually needed anything.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 10813
Registered: Feb-05
You don't need anything David...noooo!
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3112
Registered: Feb-07
The disposable income has been disposed of, Art. Mostly on McIntosh gear.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13640
Registered: Dec-04
whoop!
 

New member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-09
Hi folks! I bought the Emotiva ERC-1 last July and it is the best CD player I have ever owned. I spent about 6 weeks doing an evaluation primarily because the AVS forum was so brutal on the subject regardless of brand and wanted to figure out how to review. I also plan to purchase the Emotiva USP-1 to pair with the ERC and will do a follow-up impression.

Here is my report and hope it helps someone.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=mediareviews&t hread=5776&page=1
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3331
Registered: Feb-07
Wow, that is quite the report.

Nice pics too.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13987
Registered: Dec-04
How does it sound?
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3333
Registered: Feb-07
I'm curious too. Do tell.
 

New member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 2
Registered: Nov-09
The ERC is the best CD player I have ever owned and the error correction is incredible where I can play some pretty scratched up disks without errors.

I highly recommend it and I just ordered the USP-1 pre-pro for 2 channel yesterday. This will allow XLR on my sub and I am jazzed to be having this combination.

It is built like a tank and has a 5 year transferable warranty which I have never heard of for this type of product and in this price range.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3336
Registered: Feb-07
Do you work for Emotiva by chance?
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3337
Registered: Feb-07
So what do you say JAW? How is it?
 

New member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 3
Registered: Nov-09
Hey Dave, Umm, no I do not work for Emotiva or have any financial associations with them whatsoever. I do work in IT for a large disk storage company. I do however like Emotiva, the products and overall business model especially the open communicatons concept.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3340
Registered: Feb-07
OK, good. Just checking :-)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Rpa1man

Post Number: 18
Registered: Sep-08
Dave,

Which McIntosh gear do you dispose your disposable income on?
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3378
Registered: Feb-07
This year I disposed my income on a MA-6300 integrated and an MCD-301 CDP. Eventually I'd like to get either an MC-252 or an MC-275. Not really sure if I want to stay with SS or go tubes.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14097
Registered: Dec-04
I managed a MA6900
And a very nice vintage MX112tuner/pre and 2505 power amp, fully documented.
10/10 panloc cases.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jaw

Post Number: 275
Registered: Mar-06
Just wasn't motivated to post my thoughts on the EMO ERC-1 because I sent it back. To Emotiva's credit (regrettably, some have had communication problems with an Emotiva transaction) my return was processed and refunded in about 5 days. So, will express appreciation to Emotiva for being able to audition their stuff.

RO and Sticks, good to hear you enjoy your EMO cdp and continued enjoyment to you. The EMO has received 2 good Editorial reviews and great personal reviews by owners over at Audioreview. My impressions are that I was disappointed with the SQ -- nothing special, I expected more. This is my opinion that is no better than yours.
Unfortunately, there has not been enough written about the EMO for one to draw a general consensus on the SQ.

Appearance: The build is solid with substantial weight and a 5-year warranty. Rear connections are solid, however, no one has confirmed that the XLR is truly fully balanced or not. The front controls are conveniently laid out.

Of interest, the EMO uses a AD1955 DAC; the CA840C uses twin AD1955 DACs. Heard the CA at a dealer and it is fantastic but cannot really judge until in my system/room. Any SQ comparison between the EMO and CA, I think, is no contest CA.

I like the Slot Load mechanism; it's smooth with nice utility v. a pop out tray and dropping the CD onto the platter. Fingerprints are no problem because the Disc is held by the edges and fed into the slot -- exactly the way that a disc is held and placed on a conventional drawer. Scratched discs are no problem; took a pristine CDR from the spindle and inserted/ejected the disc 15 times (it might have been 13 or 16 times; lost count, whatever). You get the picture, there were no scratches; Rotel and a new Perraux CDP also use the slot loader.

The overall appearance is congruous only with other EMO gear; the wannabe McIntosh blue lights on the faceplate are bright gaudy Las Vegas style -- even my 19 year-old kid home from school walked in and said "in your face" regarding the lights. Sure, the lights can be (thankfully) dimmed but not by default; turn it on again and back to the Vegas Strip. The cosmetic style would probably conflict with any other traditional-looking component on your rack; it would probably conflict with Will Rogers or Mother Theresa.

SQ: Huge north/south and east/west soundstage. Bass was deep and articulate -- really good. From here on the sound was just OK and uninvolving: it's warm and veiled in my system; the treble is not extended and rolls off early; the leading and ending edge of instrumental notes/vocals/percussion are rounded and overly smooth, i.e., no detail and no placement in a dimensional depth soundstage. My Snell E.5 Tower speaks and CA 840A are decidedly a bit cold and analytical with impressive detail -- the SQ from the EMO was still stubbornly too warm for me. If it was mated to a Marantz or NAD, would imagine it would be even warmer. My ears/system heard the warmth and the guys over at Audioreview concluded neutral SQ -- such is audio opinion.

Compared to what? A/B'd same song, same time; 4 minute passages and a full days worth on each CDP for comparison-- a $220 Yamaha SACD (really pretty good on Redbook) player and the $450 Chinese brand MHZS 33 tube buffered CDP. Both the Yamanha and MHZS excelled where the EMO did not: Clarity, depth, and dynamic thrust.

Recommended: No. But, suggest you audition one yourself with an Emotiva money-back guarantee.

Closing note, after 2 weeks I knew the ERC-1 wasn't doable for me, so picked up the CA DacMagic from AudioAdvisor for essentially the same 400 bucks.

Wake up the kids and let out the dog, the Redbook SQ processed thru this outboard DAC is, much like the many Reviews have gushed, absolutely Terrific. This was A/B'd to the EMO before I sent it back and, again, no contest. The CA DAC is leaps and bounds superior in every aspect of SQ.

FWIW, will get around to reviewing the DacMagic.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11446
Registered: Feb-05
Well done, JAW.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14105
Registered: Dec-04
Thank you for the post, JAW
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3381
Registered: Feb-07
Good post JAW. Thanks man, I've been curious about the Emo CDP, but even more interested in the CA DacMagic. Had to hear it smokes the Emo.
 

New member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 4
Registered: Nov-09
Good day gentleman. One of my disappoints with home based reviews is the utter lack of a logical test plan, clear documentation with schematic of the test products and how they were configured. What if any research and references for your research on how to evaluate a player. I posted substantial references from my research and feel the effort makes a definitive statement on the SQ of the Emotiva ERC-1. Given some effort there is quite a bit of testing one can do from a quantitative perspective with Error corrections, calibrations on a a/b testing with readings, and on the qualitative tests you can listen by measure and actually report differences.

I really do not have much if any respect for any review that would be used for decision making purposes if the person is speaking in superlatives and 90% or higher is what the summation of any review I have ever seen. That is why I try and share the data tests that I did. I would venture to say that spending 6 weeks doing the evaluation and buying test disks to use is not what everyone will want to do but I hope the effort is appreciated above a few paragraphs of superfluous criticism.

It is nice to have options in this hobby and all I ask is that it is not necessary to criticize another persons choice when one has done a mediocre job at best trying to find faults.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=mediareviews&action=display&t hread=5776
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3383
Registered: Feb-07
I would take anything written on the Emo forum with the smallest grain of salt. From personal experience on that forum, as soon as you disagree with them or in any way dispute the excellence of anything Emotiva, the fanboys jump all over you, including the forum admin, who happens to be an Emotiva employee as well.

At least on this forum we all have our personal preferences and opinions, and while we may not agree on everything at least most times exchanges are rational and respectful.
 

New member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 5
Registered: Nov-09
David there was not anything intelligent on the JAW review. It was highly subjective and not credible at all. Emotiva is less than 25% of my rig and the only reason the review is posted there is that the BBCode you can use is better than here, AVS or any of the others. The Syntax for tables is fairly difficult.

I have posts on many forums and an a genuinely nice and bright fellow. I do not criticize others AV choices and take great length to be fair with all forums. I have dinged Emotiva on their documentation though as I do not think they do a good job with it especially the diagrams.

I think you get a lot of product for the money on Emotiva. If you all want to duke it with me then please put something on the table that is respectable. Just saying warmer, deeper is just ridiculous or god forbid SQ north south east west. Give me a break it is rubbish and I think folks should take their actions in the hobby to as much a credible level as they can but most of these reviews lead with their chin as they just do not make any attempt to bring leveraged value to the reader. It is what it is and it ain't much fellas!

A better job than this can be done to evaluate and publish perspectives and these attempts are very half-hearted at best!
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3385
Registered: Feb-07
From where in my post did you ascertain that I want to duke it out with you? Don't take things so personally.

My issue in this case is with Emotiva, not you. Any of the regular followers of this forum know the history of my particular situation.

I happened to think JAW's review was quite useful. To me, music is not about measurements and metrics, but subjective things like "does it sound good?".

I can read specs all day long, but does it really mean anything?
 

New member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 6
Registered: Nov-09
No worries Dave! I would bet a dollar to a donut that the gentleman above did not take notes, or perform essential critical listening to apply a reasonable subjective perspective. I think he or she sat at the keyboard and just banged it out from the top of their head as that is how it reads. I personally do not give credence to that type of approach when an evaluation is on the line. I took copious notes and repeated tests for the quantitative and qualitative sections of my evaluation and also explained certain musical terms to help someone understand the approach.

I received a lot of questions on AVS asking me about the calibration techniques.

There are a lot of folks that do product bashing and I am not one of them. I am developing some loyalty to my B&W speakers and some of the EMO gear that has come out. The USP-1 PrePro is impressive to me and I just cannot believe that it is only $400. I have not done a review on it though as I personally need to get some test equipment that would help me post something different. That is really my point as no matter what we do be the best, make it your best effort where you take pride in your work. So I have been looking at some affordable test equipment that allows me to do a better home evaluation. It does peeve me a bit when someone dings a product like that and has not provided any credibility into their methods of evaluation.

I think if you are going to evaluate a product and publish a perspective then do it right! Explain yourself and ask yourself did I do a good job! Was I fair and impartial! Am I proud of my work and was it my best effort! These elements are important in building a reputation where folks will take you serious and respect your outcomes.

In my view the Jaw review landed with a resounding THUD!
 

New member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 7
Registered: Nov-09
There is one comment about soundstage in the review. Soundstage is really at the discretion of the recording engineer! I used to play the drums and when we recorded our cd each musician was recorded separately. The drum tracks were laid down first and no cymbals. Then the bass tracks, the guitars, vocals and lastly we did percussion. There is not much soundstage to be had as all the microphones were based on recording individual instruments.

In classical music you do get pretty cool soundstage as there are microphones all over the place and depth plus placement will come out. I think to truly judge soundstage you need the notes from the engineer like on the Stereophile disk that tells you how the songs were engineered in detail and you can listen to these results. I must say that the stereophile disk I had was boring as all get out for the musical tracks and hard to listen to but I could appreciate the notes that were written about the recorded material.

Once again I am throwing up my red flag a bit here as there are a lot of red flags to be had. I can tell by the tone of what Jaw wrote that he is a nice guy and states it is his opinion. My objection is not with Jaw the good guy but Jaw that did not really try that hard on his work and that the opinion is simply baseless.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3587
Registered: May-05
Seriously, you shouldn't make this personal. JAW said he was stating his opinion and it wasn't any better than anyone else's.

JAW tried the thing out in his own home with his own music. Its not about 'trying that hard on his work' or taking notes, its about enjoying music. Something he did when he replaced the CDP.

At least we've communicated with the guy and he's civil. I can't say the same for you. As intelligent as you seem to be, you're not smart enough to realize how arrogant and ignorant you sound.

I have very, very little doubt you don't have a financial stake in Emotiva. Your opinion is far more baseless than his.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11453
Registered: Feb-05
How did I know and predict that some a s s from Emo would show up...this forum is the most predictable on the internet. I'll repeat, good job JAW. This was a write up by someone who has another full time job and wants to enjoy his music as a hobby or even a passion. Writing about audio gear is not his job. He dropped in here and gave a heads up to folks he knows...if that bothers you sticks, then don't let the door hit you on the way out.
 

New member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 8
Registered: Nov-09
Gentlemen, This forum has no affiliation with any one product and it is intended to be a communication platform for many products. My grievance on this particular thread is that I find any blatant criticism of any product whether it is a speaker, processor, transport device to be unnecessary.

Read the professional reviews and learn from them. I cite the Epik Sentinel review that was professionally posted. The reviewer in a very informed way dinged the product because of hum coming from the amp and some distortion. Those observations have value and they make a good point. The professional reviews are a model that folks can learn from and yes I know certain financial elements are at play with advertising and such but not all of them.

I work in IT as a strategist and thus I have to do a lot of presentations and papers that I do plus have a great career in that field where I love it. I have not personally met anyone from Emotiva and have no affiliations of any kind. It is not about Emotiva everyone! This could be any product and the point I am trying to make to the expense of Jaw is that it is not necessary to openly criticize any other product unless you do some justice in a reasonable effort to test the unit.

If you are not going to make any real effort to test the unit then just say so and keep your observations pretty simple.

As for me I realize that my points have been pointed and I am not intentionally trying to be difficult. I used to cringe on some of the AVS posters that would just behave in horrible manners so much so that I hardly go there as a result. All I am asking is that we all be much more responsible in how we review or evaluate products. Learn from others, adopt a civil manner in doing so and that has been my chief concern as this is a hobby. It is unfortunate on this particular forum that you cannot edit your posts. I usually like to adjust my wordings and sometimes delete my posts if I have been inaccurate.

So please know I am not here as a troll nor to make anyone's life difficult but I do own the product, I listen to it a lot and really like it.

In all honesty I was looking at new AVR's to replace my aging Denon and always give family members my older products. This year I noticed a lot of manufacturers struggling with the video processing, new audio formats, calibration features and such where I thought I would wait it out a bit. I was interested in the NAD with the modular backplane, Yamaha Z7, Sherwood R972 with Trinnov and some others and they were all having technical difficulty so I waited then I stumbled quite by accident onto the AVS Emotiva Emotions and learned about external amps.

One of the biggest disappointments in my aging rig was that my B&W speakers could go loud but the bass kind of had a cardboard sound to it and my sub was very old with an 80 watt monoaural amp. I decided to try the external amp and went with the XPA-3 for L/C/R/ duties and wow it was very nice.

I then started looking suspiciously at my other components. I owned a 20 year old technics CD player and thought your next buddy, wow again, then I replaced the sub with a sealed design UFW-10 Rocket with XLR and parametric EQ (You have to use graph paper to calibrate and find the drop outs) and I researched a while on the sub. I wanted a sub with XLR as I have a 25 foot run under the house and did not want to use RCA connetivity. Holy wow!

Incrementally I am really appreciating my audio investments and cannot believe the night and day difference. I then decided on the USP-1 as the next component. It has an HT bypass so I could actually isolate my CD player from the Denon where I was using a twinned connection on the 8.1 to get the sub included and one button push I get my home theatre. I live in a small waterfront home (sailboat tied to backyard pier) and as such I can only have one audio system and it has to be multi-purpose. The inclusion of the USP-1 and Rocket sub was dramatic. I am not even sure how to document it but I do post my configuration diagrams for others on our forum and try to help folks out.

What's next.......well I still need the processor and am okay for now as I have the Anchor Bay DVDO VP 20 doing all my video management and can wait for the right product. I am interested in the Emotiva XMC-1 that is in the works but it still may not be out till next summer. How have the other AVR products fared....Outlaw is still trying to get their next version out, Sherwood is still having trouble as so is the Yamaha. It seems the Onkyo has done a pretty good job.

One of the interesting things about the Emotiva processor is that you get a 40% discount when you upgrade from one generation to the next. I have owned 3 Denons and the only thing I got from each subsequent purchase was a receipt. I like this multi-year warranty, call the company and talk to a rep, and the quality of the gear for the dollar is pretty amazing.

I could afford to go with other brands but I too have my priorities and am personally not willing to spend gobs of cash on high end gear.

With all this said I have never insulted anyone with a Technics CD player heck mine lasted 20 years without fail or the Denon, or the NHT Sub as they all have functioned for years. I am very much appreciating the ability to substantially upgrade my gear for very modest investments. A 600W amp for $500, Reference CD $399, 2 Channel pre pro $275 used, Rocket Sub $300 used. And my system has never sounded better. Best yet I can talk about it and any other product without having to degrade other products in the process. This is what I am trying to say!

Folks, it is just not necessary to ding other products without truly taking that effort serious. Once again any product! We should and are responsible for our own actions.

Okay, so I hope we can make peace now!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14107
Registered: Dec-04
I am not even sure how to document it but I do post my configuration diagrams for others on our forum and try to help folks out.


Excuse me, what is "our" forum, please?
 

New member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 9
Registered: Nov-09
This is the new configuration I have for the XPA-3, Denon, ERC and USP-1.


http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=prepro&action=display&thread= 6678


I spend a lot of time on the Emotiva Lounge but mainly in the Currently playing section where members post their music selections. I have learned of a lot of new music from this thread.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=music&action=display&thread=2 029&page=75

The Emotiva forum is open to lots of different subjects and here is the Football thread.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=off&action=display&thread=657 0&page=10http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=off&action=display&thread=499 8&page=11

Here is where you can sell stuff any kind of product and I listed some art work that I do not have room for.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=emporium

Here is where folks talk about beers

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=off&action=display&thread=499 8&page=11

Here is where I posted my excitement on getting the Rocket Sub

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=newgear&action=display&thread =6931

The Emotiva Lounge is a fun place to hang out and I say our as I contribute a lot on the music threads. It is way more than audio/video but that is certainly part of if and it is not exclusive to Emotiva. Emotiva gets bashed there especially with folks impatiently waiting on the new processor.

I have been looking at the other subjects that are provided here on our eCoustics forum and read the review on the DAC Magic. Nice review too!

This forum also is multi-purpose with the Bragging Area, Music, Cinema so I am looking forward to seeing what all is here.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14108
Registered: Dec-04
Mostly EMO bashers...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11456
Registered: Feb-05
Nice pitch.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2857
Registered: Jun-07
I dont know about anyone else, but If I had an amp, pre amp and speakers that I love and I was shopping for a source, that source better sound good in that current system, with the style of music I listen to or its going back. Simple as that. I didn't read anywhere in JAW's post where he was just bashing a product. Just giving his honest opinion on how that product sounded with HIS gear, with HIS music in HIS room. Are people suppose to change their system, room and music just to test a product? I would hope not. Everyone has different ears and different listening habits and if a crappy Emotiva product isn't going to bring what they want to their system then its simple, it goes back. Measurements of associated gear? Who cares! Measurements mean d i c k when it comes to what your brain tells you sounds good or not. Professional reviews are just people, with a heart, flesh and bones like you and I that have another or similar opinion. An opinion is an opinion and if the Emotiva CDP brought to JAW's sytem what JAW was looking for then he would had said so. Its simple.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3386
Registered: Feb-07
It was! Almost makes me want to go over and visit the nice folks at Emotiva.

Nah..........
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2858
Registered: Jun-07
lol Cross posts with you David.

I agree man, makes me want to buy a Emotiva product...ahh nope!!! Scouting the forums from time to time it seems the Emotiva bunch are very aggresive. Why do they have to be? If an audio product is a proven, well built product then people on any forum will know what it is, and that it is good even if it isn't for them. It seems there is more people trying to argue that Emotiva make a good product than people agreeing on its a good product.lol Know what I am saying?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14110
Registered: Dec-04
Perhaps converts from the failed AV123 times...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11459
Registered: Feb-05
Y'all hit the nail on the ole head.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3387
Registered: Feb-07
They doth protest too much.

I suppose it's not bad stuff for the money. It's more the staff there and the rabid, fanatical community that turns me off.
 

New member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 10
Registered: Nov-09
Gentlemen, I am happy to match on your quibbles with my wits! Once again this has nothing to do with Emotiva and everything to do about someone who posts evaluations in an irresponsible manner.

The soundstage description was a joke.........

The CA versus ERC is a joke as they are not the same product so he would have to share a configuration that lends credibility on how he tested.........???????????

Rounded and overly smooth descriptors on vocals and percussion..........???????????

It was a very poor job at describing any component and it has no credibility whatsoever........

None of you could make a qualified statement as to what he did and since he does not describe it or anything else tangible with his project then I dismiss it as not worthy......

My goal is to get folks to take a little more time and responsibility if they are going to try and pass themselves off as a person that has a perspective that matters. This perspective is impossible to appreciate because none of us have any idea what he did to draw comparisons.

When you listen to music in a critical manner you will listen for Transient attack and decay, certain sound effects of subtle reverb that would be lost in a lesser system, it should probably be time noted at certain occurences of what he heard in one playback versus another.

It is just a bad job and most of the home reviews are pretty bad and even on the Emotiva site. My contribution here is to learn from those that do it right. Audioholics has a repeatable system for how they evaluate any product. I read many reviews and tried to develop a test plan that would allow he to still be an amateur but also credible.

I personnaly find the descriptions on the lights to be insulting and product bashing where just saying the "lighting is a bit bright for my tastes" turns into some vegas think with Mother Teresa and Will Rogers. It is just not necessary, it does not bring value and the whole write up as I have said before was very poorly done.

I think the most responsible thing that Jaw could do is fess up that he did not take notes, wrote his piece well after doing his bit, wrote it from memory and leave it at that. Then anyone could logically dismiss the work as casual and not to be a referenced work!
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2861
Registered: Jun-07
lol Yup.

EMOTIVA IS THE BEST!!! YOU DIDN'T REVIEW IT RIGHT!! NO!! WHAT!!?? NO YOUR WRONG!!! IT"S THE BEST!! NO!! WHAT??!! NO!! YOUR CRITICIZING THE PRODUCT!!! WHERES THE MEASUREMENTS!!?? READ THE REVIEWS!!! NO!! WHAT??!! NO!!! NO!! NO!!! EMOTIVA!!

LOL!!
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2862
Registered: Jun-07
JAW, like any of us here, are not professional reviewers. We can just give our opinion on what we heard and none of us care if it is written in a professional manner or that we read from our "notes". Some of us just love the music and don't have time for notes on a product that never brings us musical pleasure like the Emotiva did not for JAW.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3388
Registered: Feb-07
Well said Nick.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 11
Registered: Nov-09
Maybe my last word on the subject we will see how it goes. The configuration is essential to share when evaluating a transport device. If he hooked it up to the CD inputs then whatever signal processing the ERC does will be redone by his processor. You have to show how you did configuration. If he did an A/B and used the CD inputs for the second unit then you cannot AB the two cd players and you will be AB one unit that is isolated if it was and the other unit against the DAC's in the processor.

Once again with out sharing those details then you cannot rely on the report. It is simply too vague and incomplete to have any value as a report that could have influence.

I would drop Emotiva from the discussion as this has not ever been about Emotiva and it is all about how to be credible when doing home based evaluations.

I am pointing out critical flaws in the report and anyone that would be fair and impartial would recognize this as well.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3389
Registered: Feb-07
Fair enough. Let's forget about Emotiva.

I think you're missing the point with JAW's review, SnS. Nobody here was looking for a subjective, quantitative analysis of the product, complete with measurements and graphs. We actually just enjoy trying out new gear and sharing our thoughts and impressions with other members here.

Your rigid approach to audio actually just leaves me cold.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 12
Registered: Nov-09
David, It is not a rigid approach but you simply cannot make audio claims without sharing the configuration and the experience levels for posters on all these forums are all over the place. If Jaw shared his configuration then we could politely validate or help him make some corrections in a manner that he learns and we learn. Most of what I post is to be educational in some manner. I am learning all the time and that is a big part of the process and love of the hobby. It is important to understand! The first time I hooked up the ERC I was using my CD inputs for the Technics and CDR for the ERC. When I toggled back and forth they sounded identical and then I took out the manual and had my ah ha moment. I then went to the 8.1 for the ERC and the Technics was in the CD input but I was not able to contrast the Technics versus the Emotiva but the Emotiva versus the Burr Brown DACS on the Denon.

I had to get some help in figuring out how to get a single subwoofer connection to work on the 8.1 and the Denon PreOut. Once again with the configuration documented I could get important feedback to make sure I had the right foundation in place.

It is not meant to be cold but it is accurate and anyone can read the work and follow the thought patterns. That is important. There is not much value to just make descriptions about perceived hearing unless you share the configuration.

I would really like to establish this point as the defining point that I am trying to make and this is how others can best benefit from someone else's work and we share our impressions in a reliable and responsible way.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14113
Registered: Dec-04
SnS, you 8 posts have been very helpful as to ascertaining your pecking order in the world of EMO.
However, as JAW is a member of longstanding here on Ecoustics, and has been a helpful contributor here for some time, I might suggest that you rethink your expectations of reviews on your products.
A few of us here are more than familiar with the forums there at EMO...the "our" that I eluded to.

JAW provided his impressions on the cdp, and posted just that.
Your injection that JAW needs gears, meters and paperwork to know that a unit sucks is rather imperious of yourself and your affiliation of the company.

Let me 'cherry pick' a bit here...

Gentlemen, This forum has no affiliation with any one product and it is intended to be a communication platform for many products. My grievance on this particular thread is that I find any blatant criticism of any product whether it is a speaker, processor, transport device to be unnecessary

Hmm...I thought Brian owned this site, not you or EMO.
Have you introduced yourself to Brian?
If you wonder why this brand is shortened to EMO, it is so that no more traffic is directed your way from here, this brand needs no more press than Tiger Woods.


There is one comment about soundstage in the review. Soundstage is really at the discretion of the recording engineer!

Huh. I placed my Ratshack speakers all over the room and could not gain a soundstage from them at all. But when I replaced them with some pedestrian Gallo speakers, the stage opened up. Blame the recording, I guess?

SnS, you come across as a shill.
JAW comes across as a guy who listened to a subpar cdplayer.

I am getting tired of picking apart your drivel, I have socks to iron.

JAW never claimed to be an expert reviewer, with tools and toys. JAW never had a need to do anything other than to insert a disc and push play. Unless I am mistaken, the unit is advertized to do just that.
The cdp may be better with plasticine packed into the case, or with any number of connections, but its primary purpse is redbook playback, and JAW gave his honest estimation, with a comparison, of his observations.

Finally, SnS, you will be pleasantly surprised to know that we have tons of graphs, charts and specs to be referenced here in little old Ecoustics. Sometimes it does not mean sh!t.

If a cd player is reviewed, then it is done so with a kit in place.
If it sounds like it does, then JAW says so.

AV123 called, did you return the call?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14114
Registered: Dec-04
Crossed posts, SnS.
Yes, in a perfect world, we could make changes to accomodate a new cdp.
JAW should not have to do so or redook playback.

Why is the cdp not optimized automatically?

Nine million channels do not make a stereo cdp better.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14115
Registered: Dec-04
JAW's observations on the DACmagic are pertinent as well.
The cambridge unit bests my Apollo as well, so it seems.

Sigh
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 13
Registered: Nov-09
You folks can make your rants but it could never substitute the need to express your configuration. It does not take special tools although if you are going to AB two different CD players you should calibrate a reference level at the speaker posts so one player is not artificially playing higher than another. They should be within 10% tolerance and I posted the technique.

If you all want to be left alone then do not do home based reviews. If you want to dabble in a PUBLIC forum with a review then you are subject to the PUBLIC eye that will try and keep you honest!

I think the external DAC will be handing for AppleTV or Squeezebox or Media servers and keep an eye on them.

Fellas it is silly to have any qualms with me as I am merely pointing out the techniques that should be considered in the review.

You cannot achieve any credibility by simply typing silly superlatives.

Open your minds and be willing to learn! Teach and learn it is a reciprocity that we all benefit from! Jaw did a bad job and being a man among men will probably admit it someday! It does not mean he is a bad guy for doing it or that I am a bad guy for pointing it out but lets keep it honest here. You cannot use his report for any meaningful conclusion. It is what it is and it ain't much! Simple and true!
 

Silver Member
Username: Unbridled_id

ChicagoUsa

Post Number: 529
Registered: Mar-04
The Emo forum is nothing more than a circle jerk bathed in the glow of an unnecessary number of blue led's.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 14
Registered: Nov-09
And an esteemed gentleman you are!
 

Silver Member
Username: Unbridled_id

ChicagoUsa

Post Number: 530
Registered: Mar-04
Esteem isn't my main concern, accuracy is.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 15
Registered: Nov-09
I would be happy to discuss that subject if you have something specific that you would like to mention.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2701
Registered: Nov-05
S&N,

You are an arrogant sob that's for sure. I have just read through this thread and laughed at your drivel. Sure, there's nothing wrong with what you do if graphs and figures are important to you in ascertaining which cdp player can output this frequency or roll off on that frequency or whatever. It's about how the music sounds and makes you feel when you hear it. Understand "hear it". Understand "how it makes you feel". We are talking about musical enjoyment you twit.

There, I said it folks. But it won't make him disappear. He'll be back to ramble on.


Thanks for the heads up JAW!
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3390
Registered: Feb-07
I don't normally do this, but this guy seems incorrigible, so here we go. I work in the same field as you, Sticksnstones, so I know the type:

The insecure pseudo-intellectual who feels the need to constantly prove they're smarter than everyone else and in the end they just end up looking like a pompous, arrogant, self-important dork-wad windbag.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 16
Registered: Nov-09
Yeah, I will hang with you all and I am not arrogant at all. I build very effective teams and have a very productive work habit. I enjoy the hobby and I think you guys are going a bit over the top!

You cannot honestly expect that someone can say one transport device is better than another based on blindfaith. We do not know Jaws background what experience he has and his report lacks many important details that would allow me or anyone else to respect his views as a report worthy of making an influence on to buy or not to buy.

You guys are now resorting to name calling because you cannot bring a credible remark that defends the infamous Jaw report. The guy said x was better than y and sure I would like to believe him but if he cannot produce a test plan then his work is just not worth anything.

Are guys gonna go think a audio device is good or bad based on the report? In all honesty I hope not and you know you would not! You would need substantial evidence or your own test to make a decision.

I think instead of getting all red about me is that you all help Jaw create a better test plan. These are not difficult things to do and if you really care about the quality of your work if would be a natural inclination.

I did subscribe to the thread and will happy to move on to better topics here but will do my part to keep folks honest on these matters. If you are going to make careless remarks about products that I own and am proud to own I will try and point out some stronger methods to draw much more reliable conclusions that any person could appreciate. I will try and expose careless posts if they are being negative.

This bulletin board is a little funky as you cannot respond to direct posts or edit your own posts after 60 minutes. You just have this time chronology serial threads.

Once again lets focus on helping Jaw to perform some legitimate reviews and take an educational perspective.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3391
Registered: Feb-07
"Once again lets focus on helping Jaw to perform some legitimate
reviews and take an educational perspective."

I don't think JAW needs help.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2702
Registered: Nov-05
We appreciate forum members opinions here. If we want professional reviews we'll seek them. We don't need you to tell us how to review a product. Members here respect each other and we offer our opinions. We listen with our ears and we tell each other if we like what we hear or not.

It's simple.

But too simple for you - so go elsewhere - a place where those who appreciate your testing, graphing, charting and all that other stuff that doesn't change what enters our ears.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 17
Registered: Nov-09
Not so easy friend. You all started taking the shots and careless ones at that so I am here to keep you honest. It is up to you to be fair and impartial and accurate!
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2703
Registered: Nov-05
"Are guys gonna go think a audio device is good or bad based on the report?"

No we are not, But it tells us that the product does not appeal to at least one member. If another states something similar and then another, we would then be extra cautious about adding the product to an audition list. Simple!

We've all seen different tests revealing flaws in a product yet people have bought it because they like how it performs. Flaws or not. Ears decide not charts.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2704
Registered: Nov-05
" I am here to keep you honest."

Who the hell do you think you are?

God?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14118
Registered: Dec-04
Umm, SnS, you are ignoring a very important thing here, so I will point out, again, your stupidity. Here goes...

You are a newcomer here, with an obvious agenda and a troll like attitude.
JAW has been a member here for some time, and has contributed to this very small community with honest posts and opinions, along with willingly sharing his experience.

You are a twat so far.

We have several know-it-alls here on the forum already. The difference being, ours actually may know it all.
You can argue until you are blueitheballs, but that does not make you smart or useful.

I am sure that you are waiting for someone from here to up the post count on EMO-whatever, but that is unlikely, as I have been there long enough to see how it goes.
That 'forum' is like watching a 9 yr olds soccer game, with a buzzing swarm never moving from the 'ball' more than 3 metres.
Again, you slipped when you called it 'our' forum, sir, and your agenda is plain to see.

JAW said that in his opinion, the product was A, B and C, and offered a comparison.
Why can you not accept JAW's opinion?
Do you need control?
Do you feel that under certain circumstances, JAW may offer another opinion?
Do you feel that JAW has done something wrong by plugging in the unit, installing a cd and listening in his very well known, fully controlled atmosphere? If so, how do you think JAW should improve his environment to meet the needs of your cdplayer?
Should JAW move his.her chair back a few feet?

Discuss.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14119
Registered: Dec-04
David, tell this wad what a sk ank operation Emotiva runs.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14120
Registered: Dec-04
FuckingLexicon would not want their stuff.

Let me pull up the news where an EMO amp was packed full of Coke from Colombia.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 18
Registered: Nov-09
Regular gentleman I assure you. I am a fit Sailor, golfer, Gardner, kayak-er, home audio enthusiast! Happily married, well liked and not wanting trouble here as I would just like to promote fair and impartial non-biased reporting on products if they are being touted as a review.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11467
Registered: Feb-05
For me it's simple, JAW offered his opinion relative to a product. I never considered it a professional review or anywhere near it. It's one man's opinion. I appreciate that he took the time to share that opinion with us. Will I make a buying decision based on his opinion, ofcourse not. I buy with my own ears and no one else's.

When I write about a product, folks who have been here long enough and know my preferences can take my opinion as exactly that, my opinion. Knowing my preferences, much as knowing JAW's preferences just gives us some context around those opinions. The same can be said of professional reviewer. The reviews are far more meaningful if you have followed the reviewer long enough to know their preferences. Pretty simple stuff really.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11468
Registered: Feb-05
....and you can forget the unbiased report, it does not exist....sillyness.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14122
Registered: Dec-04
If you want a professional review, then send stuff to a reviewer.
If you are having a pint and want to see what JAW has to say about a unit on a Thursday, then look here. Simple.
If you want to get called out as a shill, a troll or a knob, then go ahead.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 19
Registered: Nov-09
You guys are an interesting group and you still neglect to address the core issue. You cannot post a credible impression on a device without the configuration. You do not have to draw it you can write it out. It is cool that you defend him but it does not make the matter correct. It is a flawed report so lets just make that consensus and try and lay some consistent goals on how to evaluate a cd player. You all asked the question is the player any good and it really is good! If you are going to compare it just using your ears won't cut it. I do not trust how he made his connections or even began to compare a CD player to a stand alone DAC.

I would spend more time determining what you really want to accomplish in your thread and as long as you are looking at impressions of the CD player then I will hang out to help you all. No arrogance intended and I have not ever been accused of it before. I do think that writing things down and not really being able to edit your work can cause things to be taken out of context. I do apologize to each and all of you if I am being to terse but I am protecting my investments in HT and will to try and understand you all a little better.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3588
Registered: May-05
This is a big reason why I hate the internet direct companies and want nothing to do with them. Why is it that this clown hasn't defended any other product and/or opinion before someone spoke unfavorably about his beloved Emotiva?

For the same reason why it happens with Ascend. People who work for these companies and their cronies (kinda like L. Ron Hubbard and his clones) Google their gear and find threads on various forums that are unfavorable. They then proceed to rant and rave about measurements and tell everyone else they aren't being fair to the equipment, didn't audition it properly, and so on.

Truth is, you only need two measuring devices to truly appreciate music and they way a piece of gear presents it - your ears and your brain.

These guys definitely lack the ears, and most certainly lack half their brain.

Listen to spec sheets, white noise, pink noise, and other test tones. I'll keep listening to what was intended all along - music.

Enjoy being a douche bag. At least you do that right.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14125
Registered: Dec-04
I will pass on the platitudes.

Between Art and Stu, there are ears that have heard more cdp's than you can spell.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2705
Registered: Nov-05
No wonder he calls himself Sticknstones - guess he's had to use that old defensive little verse all his life.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3392
Registered: Feb-07
All my friends on here know what a crock of sh!t/goatf**k organization Emotiva is. I wouldn't presume to logon to the Emotiva forum and call it "our" forum. I've only been a member here for 3 years now, but I became a regular here by posting often and treating all other members with respect. For you to drop in here from 30,000 feet and start calling other respected members out, saying they "need help" writing reviews is kinda ridiculous. You also like talking about yourself too much, which makes you suspect.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3393
Registered: Feb-07
I was thinking that too M.R. He must be used to this sort of reaction I would guess.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14127
Registered: Dec-04
Are we finished with the EMO troll then?
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2706
Registered: Nov-05
All those in favor we are finished with him:

Aye!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14129
Registered: Dec-04
Aye!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11470
Registered: Feb-05
Aye!
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3394
Registered: Feb-07
I'm done.
 

Silver Member
Username: Unbridled_id

ChicagoUsa

Post Number: 531
Registered: Mar-04
Aye. Back to the Emu blue led wankfest/forum.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2866
Registered: Jun-07
lol David- I totally know those IT type your talking about, I deal with them a lot. They are losers, and usually know jack s h i t Oh... and..

AYE!!!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 20
Registered: Nov-09
Hey gentleman, I am calling you out on a flawed report and all you can come back with is to take pot shots at me. It is not about me it is about being credible so we can keep lobbing the shots but it does not make you right and in fact it really shows that you do not really care about learning to be a better contributor and how to do a better job without much effort.

Maybe acknowledge the fact that you cannot really rely on a persons impressions of one product versus the other without knowing the setup. I will repeat it and hopefully it will register as a valid common sense requirement as you go down your path to evaluate the player.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14130
Registered: Dec-04
SnS, what part of "plug in player, insert disk" do you not understand?
One guy says it blows, so what?
Is your stock going down?
People who buy a value oriented unit like this expect what they get, and will likely be happy.
Audio forums are full of the small percentile that ecpectmore, and one end user found theunit lacking.
Who are you marketing to?

Aye!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 21
Registered: Nov-09
The sticknstones moniker is drummer+geologist=SticknStones. I did my undergrad work in geology and mathematics and played the drums for 30 odd years.

I don't know you guys! Just decide when you start a thread asking the leading question......Is the unit any good........ to be willing to have a reasonably intelligent exchange. There are good ways to do this and it is not so hard to work it through. It just takes commitment to the why you were interested in the first place. If you were really interested to understand if there is a good CD player on the market and how to evaluate it then take the time to understand that or at least have the common decency to drop out as not really interested in spending the time to learn more about the hobby. I have been playing golf since I was 13 and take lessons all the time all in the spirit of getting better. Sailing is a very technical sport where reading charts and understanding the weather, currents, and sailing techniques is important as I have folks on the boat that rely on my skills. I take that serious. I also do my own diesel repairs on the boat as if something happens on the water there is no magical cure. It is you and the elements and those that trust you. It is not so different in this hobby where certain principles should be adhered to and for you all to take my perspectives and try to turn them into something other than a request to be better and more responsible is a bit sad.

I am making the observations as you all started this whiz bang thread and if you really care about being credible in your hobby field then I would not think of me as not the bad guy but someone who raised a red flag and said hold on a minute folks your sentiments do not add up. There really is something missing here and that is your responsibility.

If you want your thread to be good then be willing to learn more about reviewing products or change your motives.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14132
Registered: Dec-04
Now I see the trend that I have been waiting for now, it took 3 posts more than usual.
See now how SnS has transferred ownership of the conversation from his previous 'our' to the transferral 'your' in reference to the thread, directly above.
The transferral is step 3 in an exchange where your offerings are poor, and this is the most common route to try to get out without making a fuss.
This is a key moment.
Either the individual is given his space and forgiven, or the point is driven further, forcing the person into a fight or flight posture, which seldom results in a favorable outcome.

Also note that SnS has made this purposly a third attemt (for himself) at trying to be amicable.
These attempts will be next brought up in self defence to note his desire to 'fit in', while still holding to the original train of purpose, which is to aggregate.

This is, if nothing else, a textbook case for all to see.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 22
Registered: Nov-09
Umm, with regard to my true profession, I share with my colleagues all I learn in my field. Hold brown bags and hold a fairly high level management position. I am the consummate professional and respect my colleagues very much! I do not enjoy what is happening on this thread but will try and see it to some successful outcome. I regret the inflamed posts I am getting but that's okay as I am the new guy dropping into the crowd and challenging a few of you to boot so I understand.

Once again it begs the question..........What are you trying to do to determine if an Emotiva CD Player is any good? Well to truly answer that question then you have to take a more disciplined approach or you are fair game as a dismissive poster/thread with messages that truly do not matter. It is not my creation but I will provide my commentary to try and help out.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 23
Registered: Nov-09
Nuck, David, MR, Stu, Unbridled,

Please take the time to think about CD player evaluations and not me. Geesh! Through all these posts not a single inkling about evaluating cd players and all about a new guy dropping in the scene challenging you. Step up to the challenge and show your ability to truly contribute to the subject matter at hand. If you keep making it about me then you continue to show your own short comings. Step up, show some leadership regarding the hobby! Make a statement about audio evaluations, and how you will show how good this thread can be in being impartial and forward thinking not brand oriented whether it is Daves Bryston affinity or any other brand which for sure should be brand free in terms of true credibility! Show what you can do to communicate a credible observation. Do not make it a personal thing about me as I could really care less. I am willing however to hold you accountable for your actions and in the PUBLIC eye as well. I own a a scant few Emotiva products and you all think I am a stickler for the brand. I like the brand but they have to earn my investment!
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2707
Registered: Nov-05
The ayes have it.

Go on - scat now!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11474
Registered: Feb-05
I will repeat since you did not see fit to acknowledge a post that was not a flame.

"For me it's simple, JAW offered his opinion relative to a product. I never considered it a professional review or anywhere near it. It's one man's opinion. I appreciate that he took the time to share that opinion with us. Will I make a buying decision based on his opinion, ofcourse not. I buy with my own ears and no one else's.

When I write about a product, folks who have been here long enough and know my preferences can take my opinion as exactly that, my opinion. Knowing my preferences, much as knowing JAW's preferences just gives us some context around those opinions. The same can be said of professional reviewer. The reviews are far more meaningful if you have followed the reviewer long enough to know their preferences. Pretty simple stuff really."

That is how I feel, and I don't feel it is inflammatory. If your goal is truly to teach and learn then it would have done you well to get to know folks and then set an example with your own reviews. Instead you sought to discredit a long time member. If you read my post above you will recognize that there is nothing to discredit him from, he's not a reviewer. Just a friend sharing his opinion.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 24
Registered: Nov-09
Not going to happen my new friend! Write something meaningful and show me what you all are made of as of yet it is trite! You can do it! You can knock this out of the park but you keep taking the easy way out which is swinging at me. Do not swing at me swing but aim at the true target and how to be a really good hobbyist posting credible impressions on the latest gear available for us all!
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2708
Registered: Nov-05
You see S&S, Art just explained it (again). You came here with the wrong attitude and revealed the pompous aS$ you are. We only have room on this forum for one pompous AS$ so there is no vacancy for you. And I'm neither a new friend nor an old one. People earn being called a friend. You'll never be able to do that - not for a million bucks.



Well, maybe a million might do it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3403
Registered: Feb-07
Money order or certified cheque. Paypal even, at the usual 3%.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 25
Registered: Nov-09
Art, I posted my review well in advance of Jaw's or others in the hopes that they would glean some techniques to leverage and not post tripe but as much as I tried I do not think folks actually read to understand and if that is the case then there motives are suspect as there were many references beyond my review on how to do this that could be leveraged. What did we get ..............Ugh well we got a total dud report that you all keep defending because I have been hyper critical of the output. So be it! But it was lackluster and funny to me that you all keep trying to defend it as something worth defending. It is not worth defending but it is worthwhile to band together and show how we can do this better.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11476
Registered: Feb-05
It appears that you, most of all, do not read for understanding. There is nothing in JAW's post that needs defending. He posted his opinion.

Well, I tried. Ciao.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2710
Registered: Nov-05
S&S

You must be dumb as a gnat. You just don't get it.

Shoo!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 26
Registered: Nov-09
Oh I get it and for sure you all cannot make a single post that addresses my points. Not a single post from the lot of you that can make a single reply that has any quantitative element. You just keep slamming an individual and not the subject at hand which continues to show your weakness. For pete sakes make a contribution about the subject matter. You all are at a complete loss. At first I thought it was jaw but You all keep showing your chin too! I am not sure why but do not make a shoo gesture but show your skills. Not a single one of you is showing the ability to evaluate an cd player and if someone challenges you on the subject you challenge the challenger and not the subject. Let us try and focus on the evaluation of a cd player............I am still trying to see what you have to offer but it is still not much. Not my problem but clearly yours as you simply just do not seem to have the ability to contribute despite your claims of great experts at hand. Do it fellas! You are not making a credible point and you are showing all the world that you are willing to to defend a colleague which is nice but he has not earned your support. It is okay by me that you show allegiance but you are fair game for the aftermath as it is weak stuff folks. Really weak stuff.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2712
Registered: Nov-05
What does it take to shut you up!

We are not interested in what you want.

Try to absorb that - "not interested".

Now psss off!
 

Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 2248
Registered: May-06
How come Mr. Peabody did not get taken to the woodshed for his review? Because he liked the CDP?

Where were his configurations and measurements?

Did he not bash NAD?

In fact, Mr. Reg Overman III, most of JAW's review was very similar to Mr. Peabody's except for the part where he did not favor the CDP.

Just because you use your CDP through an AVR and cannot appreciate the qualitative manner in which JAW listened through his in a dedicated 2 channel set up does not negate your opinion or does it?

The fact that you do not understand that there is only one DAC at a time in play in all of JAW's evaluations does not make you less a genius or does it?

Politeness and all, you still come off as a shill.

Perhaps you could go buy a Rega Apollo so you won't have to worry about someone ruining your investment with a sincere negative opinion.

Maybe that's what we are not getting here guys, sincerity.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2713
Registered: Nov-05
Funny how Reggie's pics show off his house much more than the audio gear.

Reg Overman 111 - so how pompous is that!

Reggie, that silver spoon is still stuck in your mouth. Go see a quack.

But don't come back.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 27
Registered: Nov-09
Gentlemen, I am here for the duration of this thread and hope that it can live up to its original intent which is to answer a reasonable question and apply reasonable logic in seeking an answer. I regret your quibbles and your kibitzing but am willing to endure the fiasco to preserve the intent and keep it honest!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 28
Registered: Nov-09
M.R. I see you are from Australia and I am a big Phil Judd fan and have collected just about everything he has published. I know he was born in New Zealand but he lives in Australia! His works are significant and it is a shame to me that he has not received more international recognition! I really like the Unthinkables project that he recently completed! Very creative!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 29
Registered: Nov-09
Michael Woodek,

I have posted albeit a bit earlier an upgrade to my system where I have the ERC configured in a 2 channel setup and use its bypass feature to toggle to my HT system. I have the new diagram linked in post number 9 of this thread. With regard to Mr. Peabody, I landed here after his post but before the others and am content to make some influences on the future works. Yes, you are right as Mr. Peabody made some well intended commentary and did not stir any controversy from my perspective so I appreciated his post.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2715
Registered: Nov-05
A big Phil Judd fan, well why the hell didn't you say so before Reggie. That changes everything.








Reggie, you are a bl00dy wally!
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 751
Registered: Jul-07
"Write something meaningful and show me what you all are made of as of yet it is trite!"

We owe you nothing. You seem to think people owe you something, but they do not. You obviously hold your own opinions in very high regard, but please don't presume that anyone here owes you anything. Jaws comments were what they were. You're being very disingenuous with your stated objectives. You would not be here had he preferred the Emotiva unit, so your credibility is highly questionable. Many unscientifically stated reviews have been written here and this is the first one you question ? Sorry, no one is going to buy the fact that you're here to help us all write more thoroughly stated opinions.

You simply didn't like the outcome of Jaws evaluation, so here you are. You can say "it's not about Emotiva" as many times as you like. It's about Emotiva.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 30
Registered: Nov-09
You guys are an amusing bunch for sure!
 

Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 2249
Registered: May-06
"Yes, you are right as Mr. Peabody made some well intended commentary and did not stir any controversy from my perspective so I appreciated his post."

This seems somewhat communistic in that Mr. Peabody says what JAW says but in the end offers an opinion that agrees with you so all is good, but JAW's opinioin does not agree with you so you go on the attack.

How about for every post you continue to add to this thread we all post back EMOTIVA SUCKS?
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 753
Registered: Jul-07
You guys are an amusing bunch for sure!

Indeed.

You know, if you had wanted more information from Jaw about how he had his system setup during the evaluation you could have just PM'd him, or asked him a question in the thread. Asking clarifying questions is far more polite than making accusations in a thinly veiled attempt at discrediting his view to "protect your investment".

"I really do not have much if any respect for any review that would be used for decision making purposes if the person is speaking in superlatives and 90% or higher is what the summation of any review I have ever seen. "

Did you read what he wrote ? Show me how what he wrote is full of superlatives ?

If your feeling is that nobody should be offering any opinions without some sort of vigorous review process, then you've got a lot of people to harass. Thousands of random opinions are expressed every day. Are you going to police the internet for all of these horrible transgressions ? No, because they don't have the keyword "Emotiva" in them.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 31
Registered: Nov-09
It's your thread my friend and do as you wish! I think it is a bit off topic though as you all asked the question and I am trying to help you out. I will answer the mail but for petes sake I would really go about the business of learning how to evaluate cd players, establish a few guiding principles and folks will appreciate your work. You all seem to be content in junking up this thread. I will answer your notes as best, I will be polite, observant, and try to express my observations in good english. I do not see the need for cursing or masking words with exclamation points as I think it says a whole lot more about you then it does about me. I can hang with you here but wow you folks are something to behold!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 32
Registered: Nov-09
Chris H,

I agree I could have handled my response to Jaws in a more inquisitive fashion. My apologies!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 33
Registered: Nov-09
Here is the Cambridge DAC magic for sale in new condition for $325. The Emotiva Emporium can be trusted for those that sell and there is a traders list where feedback is given. This is a good price and they usually go really fast.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=emporium&action=display&threa d=8039&page=1
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2716
Registered: Nov-05
So now you are using Ecoustics to promote the Emotiva forum. You come here under the guise of wanting to help after trying to ridicule a long standing member, then you would have us all believe that you are the mentor on how to evaluate a CD player and finally, after everyone here tells you in no uncertain terms that you are not welcome you keep coming back and adding more of your drivel.

I will state this about you S&N: You take turning the other cheek to a new level.

Can you understand you are not welcome here. How thick can you possibly be?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 34
Registered: Nov-09
Hello Mr Mr and hope you fared well today! It is after all a public forum and so I would just try and focus on the subject at hand.

Now, I suppose I could give you all an idea if you want to have a private type exchange, a certain secret society type of thing then I would;

Create a new thread, create a new code name for your project, a code name for the product that you do not want anyone else to particpate in, PM each other with your secret plot and go have yourselves a fine time. If you are going to be brave, open and honest then folks will chime in as their interests dictate.
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 755
Registered: Jul-07
MR, why wouldn't he be welcome here ? He likes Emotiva, so what. Some folks love that gear. And others have come on here and provided links to other boards with no hassle. He's got the burr out of his saddle so let bygones be bygones.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14139
Registered: Dec-04
Chris, this guy will not stop being annoying.
Mark my words.

welcome to the forum, SnS.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2717
Registered: Nov-05
I know nothing about emotiva gear nor do I wish to as I am quite content with what I have. S&N is not welcome afaic because the first thing he did on this forum is put one of our long standing members up to ridicule. Yes, he condescendingly apologised after numerous posts that kept telling him what a jerk he is.

I know it's a public forum and I cannot prevent him from posting, but he certainly doesn't get the message. Chris read his posts carefully - do we really wish to welcome his type to this forum?

Yes, we all have added links here, but this twit has an agenda. You want to play with him be my guest.
 

New member
Username: Chrisjlaw

BelfastUK

Post Number: 1
Registered: Dec-09
SticknStones,

Have you been tested for Asperger's?
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 759
Registered: Jul-07
"Chris, this guy will not stop being annoying.
Mark my words."


Maybe Nuck. We won't know 'til we give him a chance.

"do we really wish to welcome his type to this forum?"

His type ? I don't think we should be judging based on a few posts.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2722
Registered: Nov-05
How many posts do you need Chris?
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 760
Registered: Jul-07
"How many posts do you need Chris?"

There are people who are hanging around this forum who have typed things far more disconcerting than anything SnS has typed, and they're not getting shoo'd away.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11488
Registered: Feb-05
I'm of the opinion that Sticks should be able to post what he wants as long it is understood that if we believe that he is working to protect another internet direct company's rep then we can ignore him. He got off to a rough start, but as Chris said we have all sorts here...welcome aboard Sticks, and no more cheap shots at our old timers, please...lol!

I do understand how you feel MR, I believe he has an agenda as well. However, I've been wrong before (at least 3 times before noon everyday) so I could be wrong again. Give peace a chance...a musical end, how do you like that!
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2723
Registered: Nov-05
I'll stay out of his threads.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14143
Registered: Dec-04
I will respond because I am bored, I cannot really argue with customers and arguing with dates is poor form.
But it is fodder for SnS to stick about and be nattered at.
Very soon his other identities will be pointed out, then the fun begins.

Nice place, SnS, BTW.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3409
Registered: Feb-07
I have no issues with SnS. In fact, I think he may be kinda fun to have around. The only other person I've ever heard refer to themselves as "The III" was Thurston Howell.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11490
Registered: Feb-05
Here on Gilligans Isle!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14145
Registered: Dec-04
And you wonder why SnS feels enabled?!?
Whacks with skipper's hat.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3411
Registered: Feb-07
SKIPPPPPPPPPPPPERRRRRRRRRRR!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 35
Registered: Nov-09
Okay, thanks fellas! Believe me I really regret the way I responded to the long time Jaws. I do think I could have handled it better and maybe asked leading questions on his analysis and built it out that way and made the process much more constructive as oppossed to putting him and everyone else on the defense. I am not always right but I do always try to do the right thing. I am not inclined to run away but I will take criticisim and try and build better dialogue going forward.

I never really though about the III the way you all do! I think it is a great way to pay homage to my father and grandfather. I am proud to have that opportunity for and with them. It is not intended to be pompous and honestly I have never thought about it from that perspective.

In any event let's make a toast to better topics to talk about and I hope you all have a great week!
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2725
Registered: Nov-05
Just when I thought it was safe to get back in the water.

Groan!
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3412
Registered: Feb-07
Cue Jaws theme.

No pun intended.
 

Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 2254
Registered: May-06
Ok Reg, being a "III" myself I get that. I feel the same way.

I reserve it for signature, work and home.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2728
Registered: Nov-05
Oh no! Et tu Mikus!

Call me M.R. the First ( or M.R.1.)

That's numero uno - no hand me down names for me.

 

Silver Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 698
Registered: Oct-07
WHO is NOT annoying at some time or another?

MR? nope ME? not a chance Nuck? Guess again! Jan? sure
Fill in name...........everyone is guilty to one extent or another.

Everyone has there moments. Be tolerant. Even the Bose fans haven't drawn this much flack.

LaLL
............
 

Bronze Member
Username: Rpa1man

Post Number: 19
Registered: Sep-08
Wow. This started out as an interesting thread but went quickly south. Too bad.

I was actually interested in reading others "opinions" of the cdp whether good or bad but it appears that it's not going to happen now.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11544
Registered: Feb-05
Opinions on some products are often followed by a wave of fanboys swooping in from cyberspace to rescue said product. Not that that happened here.....
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3424
Registered: Feb-07
Well said Art.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Rpa1man

Post Number: 21
Registered: Sep-08
It's ok to not care for a product. It could just mean that it doesn't work well in a particular system or suit a particular persons taste. Nothing wrong with that.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11547
Registered: Feb-05
I agree.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14174
Registered: Dec-04
Sns is a shill, I thought this was dead?

JAW made his case in good faith.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Rpa1man

Post Number: 22
Registered: Sep-08
Nuck,

I didn't mean to bring it back to life. I hadn't visited this thread in a while and was a little surprised to see the direction it took. I'm done with it now.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3427
Registered: Feb-07
How's the RPA1 Paul?
 

Silver Member
Username: Unbridled_id

ChicagoUsa

Post Number: 532
Registered: Mar-04
"Opinions on some products are often followed by a wave of fanboys swooping in from cyberspace to rescue said product."

Well RPA-1 man was/is a regular on the eMu forum.

"I hadn't visited this thread in a while and was a little surprised to see the direction it took."

On the eMu forum it is/was (don't go there anymore) widely believed that you can get BMW 535i performance for Ford focus cash outlay. This group think was perpetuated by the company as well. Who doesn't want to think we spent less than the other guy but get equal to better performance?
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3428
Registered: Feb-07
Of course that sort of group think will be perpetuated by Emotiva.

I was raised to believe that you get what you pay for, and you have to pay for quality.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Rpa1man

Post Number: 23
Registered: Sep-08
Hi David,

The RPA-1 has treated me well. No complaints at all. I've had it for over a year now and enjoy listening to it on a daily basis.

Do you still have the beasty Bryston?

Are you enjoying the holiday season so far?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 36
Registered: Nov-09
Happy Holidays everyone!

The ERC-1 for me was money very well spent! I bought the 2 channel USP-1 and have my Rocket Sub connected through the XLR and the ERC isolated from the Denon through the USP-1 and the sound quality is the best I have ever had the pleasure of owning.

Here is my current configuration minus the DVDO VP20 as I am just showing the major audio connectivity for 2 channel.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=prepro&action=display&thread= 6678&page=1

The manual on the USP-1 was dreadful and I tried to get Emotiva to improve it but ended up downloading the Parasound manual so that I could figure out how I would hook it up before the purchase. Then I waited and picked up the prepro for $275 from someone that was moving.

I continue to be impressed at the quality to be had and very reasonable out of pocket expense.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14180
Registered: Dec-04
Paul, check David's profile.
He went uptown.

But still close to the hood. LOL!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Rpa1man

Post Number: 24
Registered: Sep-08
"Paul, check David's profile.
He went uptown.

But still close to the hood. LOL!"

Nice. I see he still has the Bryston gear as well as the Mc
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14181
Registered: Dec-04
I am overdue to go see David and his lovely family, I will sneakin some pics when I visit.
David also had totem Mani-2's in the house for babysitting, then sold them for me.
He liked the speakers with the Bryston, but didnt try with his Mac.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3429
Registered: Feb-07
It was the other way around Nuck, I never tried the Mani's with the 3B, mainly cause it is shoe-horned into my HT system, and I was too lazy/busy to pull it out.

Why did Emotiva discontinue the RPA-1 Paul? Its a class-H design, is it not?
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3430
Registered: Feb-07
"but ended up downloading the Parasound manual so that I
could figure out how I would hook it up before the purchase."

Hmmmm, I remember bringing up the suggestion on another forum that some of the Emotiva stuff is actually rebadged Parasound gear, and immediately got labelled a troll.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14183
Registered: Dec-04
David, I dyslexically wrote that and agreed with myself, knowing full better. Sorry all.
It's all Oppo anyhow isn't it?
 

Silver Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 703
Registered: Oct-07
I just spent 30" or so reading thru this thread.

I withdraw my earlier post regarding tolerance.

JAWs original review was fine, reasonable, and readable.

measurements? Sorry, my signal generator, scope, DVM and the rest are all out for calibration. I still have my logic probe, however, and SnS doesn't make the cut.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14185
Registered: Dec-04
There's 30" that you will never get back, Leo.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Rpa1man

Post Number: 25
Registered: Sep-08
"Why did Emotiva discontinue the RPA-1 Paul? Its a class-H design, is it not?"

Yes it is class H.

Just so I don't screw this up, here is a quote from the General Manager Lonnie as to why the RPA series was discontinued:

"Yes we have discontinued the RPA amps. The reasons for this are varied but it all came down to a few basic things. We have been building that particular amp design for roughly 8 or so years in various iterations. It has been a great design for us because it not only sounds great, but is very stable. However, the particular parts used in the design have become very difficult to get and quite costly. So acquiring small quantities for service and such can be done, but large enough quantities to do a production run is almost an impossibility."

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=amps&action=display&thread=41 98&page=1#57189
 

Bronze Member
Username: Rpa1man

Post Number: 26
Registered: Sep-08
Nuck,

Please do sneak in a few pics of David's systems.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11559
Registered: Feb-05
"It's all Oppo anyhow isn't it?"



 

Bronze Member
Username: Rpa1man

Post Number: 27
Registered: Sep-08
Don't laugh. Mine used to be all soundesign.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2884
Registered: Jun-07
Uptown Nuck? Isn't New York south of Peterborough? lol.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 37
Registered: Nov-09
Honestly folks please understand that my only problem with the Jaw report is that he did not state how he cabled the two cd players to his processor and easily could be having the analog signal reprocessed by his processor on each cd player and rendering any differences as placebo. I do think that I could have handled the situation much better but the review in my humble opinion is inconclusive without this important information. I hope this does not refuel another onslaught from you all but I do want to make sure I have been understood on this important point. I do not think using fancy meters is necessary to post an impression about a product but I do think knowing that you have your devices configured in a way that you are isolating the DAC's on each device being compared is important.

It is hard for me to understand why that is not important to you all either.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2748
Registered: Nov-05
Again, it's really simple.

It's what your ears tell your brain.

And there's a word called preference.

Then there's another word called opinion.

From preference comes opinion.

JAW gave us his opinion.

To quote: "This is my opinion that is no better than yours"

Yet, you came, you saw and then you trashed. Big time!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11561
Registered: Feb-05
Actually it's not important to me for a number of reasons, Sticks. The most important is that I have no interest in Emotiva gear. It looks like garbage to me. Gawdy, cheap looking junk. I do agree that it's nice to know what the configuration is when someone gives an opinion, however it's only necessary when the opinion will be used as a reference. In this case with zero interest in the product, no reference was required. JAW is free to post his opinions relative to gear with the belief that he will not be ridiculed IMO. Does that clear it up from my perspective. Others have different reasons why it didn't matter to them and I'll let them speak for themselves.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14187
Registered: Dec-04
SnS, we all know what JAW brought to us, and that was informal.
We can do that here.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3431
Registered: Feb-07
In fact, it's encouraged.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2885
Registered: Jun-07
"Others have different reasons why it didn't matter to them and I'll let them speak for themselves."

Nope, I couldn't agree with you more Art.
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 766
Registered: Jul-07
"It is hard for me to understand why that is not important to you all either."

Clearly. Did it ever cross your mind that we trusted that JAW would know how to do a like-for-like comparison ? Perhaps you wouldn't assume that cuz you just showed up ?

We get your area of concern. Now leave it alone.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 38
Registered: Nov-09
Chris, I have been attempting to leave this alone for a while now and still posts about scopes and such come up which take any of my commentary completely out of context. I appreciate that you all have a regular cast here that participate on many threads not just this one.

While I do not agree with your logic I am willing to accept that this is a casual crew not meant to be taken too seriously or at least on this thread! I do not mean that in a bad way just summarizing what you are saying and such!
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 768
Registered: Jul-07
"While I do not agree with your logic I am willing to accept that this is a casual crew not meant to be taken too seriously or at least on this thread! I do not mean that in a bad way just summarizing what you are saying and such!"

You're summarizing incorrectly. I in no way implied it was not to be taken seriously. I implied that it is highly likely that most people on this board would assume JAW would hook the two units up in a way consistent for like-for-like comparisons without him having to say so. Most people in audio for any amount of time would understand how to do that. You are unprepared to take that leap of faith, which is fine.....but your view is only your view. Stop trying to force your view of the world on others.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2749
Registered: Nov-05
Chris, I have been attempting to leave this alone for a while now

All evidence to the contrary!




Sometimes we take ourselves seriously other times not. One thing we don't take seriously is you.
 

Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 2256
Registered: May-06
"Honestly folks please understand that my only problem with the Jaw report is that he did not state how he cabled the two cd players to his processor and easily could be having the analog signal reprocessed by his processor on each cd player and rendering any differences as placebo."

Just to piggyback on what Chris recently posted above, am I wrong in thinking Reg, that you do not read to learn? Why else would you continue to post the above misinformed sentence? Over a week ago I clarified this for you once already;

"Just because you use your CDP through an AVR and cannot appreciate the qualitative manner in which JAW listened through his in a dedicated 2 channel set up does not negate your opinion or does it?

The fact that you do not understand that there is only one DAC at a time in play in all of JAW's evaluations does not make you less a genius or does it?"


JAW never hooked up his CD players to a processor. It may help you to understand the base of this thread is about 2 channel not home theater. Our Receivers, Integrateds, and Pre-amps do not use processors unless otherwise stated.


Now for some others here, am I the only one that has issues with this?

"The most important is that I have no interest in Emotiva gear."

Then why in the he!! do you keep coming and posting on a thread about Emotiva gear? It really does not matter that it is Emotiva or Rega or Naim or Cambridge. There is information presented here about a piece of gear and we are here to gain some insight. The rest seems like nothing more than mud slinging or shameless product promos tucked in amongst the bashing, mine included.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2889
Registered: Jun-07
We all know that Jaw knows what he is doing. That's the point. If I were him I wouldn't waste a whole lot of time on a piece of crap product like an Emotiva one. That company is really starting to remind of AV123. Wow. You ever go over to that forum and read what some of these idiots are posting over there about such a crap product???!! So funny!!! Amusing at least.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3433
Registered: Feb-07
It's a bunch of fanboys who don't want to spend the money on a quality system who try to convince themselves and everyone else that their stuff is just as good.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14196
Registered: Dec-04
A thread on another forum, but no fanboys there yet.
But it sometimes starts slowwwwly...
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 39
Registered: Nov-09
Hello everyone! I will work through Jaws report and post comments as appropriate and in the spirit of learning.

Just wasn't motivated to post my thoughts on the EMO ERC-1 because I sent it back. To Emotiva's credit (regrettably, some have had communication problems with an Emotiva transaction) my return was processed and refunded in about 5 days. So, will express appreciation to Emotiva for being able to audition their stuff.

RO and Sticks, good to hear you enjoy your EMO cdp and continued enjoyment to you. The EMO has received 2 good Editorial reviews and great personal reviews by owners over at Audioreview. My impressions are that I was disappointed with the SQ -- nothing special, I expected more. This is my opinion that is no better than yours.

Thanks Jaw!

Unfortunately, there has not been enough written about the EMO for one to draw a general consensus on the SQ.

Appearance: The build is solid with substantial weight and a 5-year warranty. Rear connections are solid, however, no one has confirmed that the XLR is truly fully balanced or not. The front controls are conveniently laid out.

I called Lonnie at Emotiva to inquire about the XLR being fully balanced. He said "yes it is fully balanced in that it has an inverted and a non-inverted stage throughout the design." I also asked is it possible to have XLR connectivity and not be fully balanced and the answer was " You could have a Pseudo XLR that only has non-inverted stage and coupled with a phase inverter". The ERC is fully balanced.

Of interest, the EMO uses a AD1955 DAC; the CA840C uses twin AD1955 DACs. Heard the CA at a dealer and it is fantastic but cannot really judge until in my system/room. Any SQ comparison between the EMO and CA, I think, is no contest CA.



http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD1955.pdf

Here is the link for the AD1955 DAC. It is a dedicated stereo DAC that also includes a Burr Brown OPAmp serving as a buffer from the DAC. This is done to ensure that the unit delivers a discreet output stage. Many players do not have a discreet output stage and will use products like a TLO82 as an output driver but it is not a discreet output stage. Krell and Emotiva as an example provide this type configuration. (I am summarizing from Lonnie and taking notes as best I can to share with you)! I also think it is invaluable to be able to call a vendor and speak with the lead design engineer and have them share this kind of information. I have not been able to duplicate this type of service in any of MY other products.


I like the Slot Load mechanism; it's smooth with nice utility v. a pop out tray and dropping the CD onto the platter. Fingerprints are no problem because the Disc is held by the edges and fed into the slot -- exactly the way that a disc is held and placed on a conventional drawer. Scratched discs are no problem; took a pristine CDR from the spindle and inserted/ejected the disc 15 times (it might have been 13 or 16 times; lost count, whatever). You get the picture, there were no scratches; Rotel and a new Perraux CDP also use the slot loader.

This is my first slot load device and it takes a little getting used to, but I am fine with it!

The overall appearance is congruous only with other EMO gear; the wannabe McIntosh blue lights on the faceplate are bright gaudy Las Vegas style -- even my 19 year-old kid home from school walked in and said "in your face" regarding the lights. Sure, the lights can be (thankfully) dimmed but not by default; turn it on again and back to the Vegas Strip. The cosmetic style would probably conflict with any other traditional-looking component on your rack; it would probably conflict with Will Rogers or Mother Theresa.

Well we like what we like and tastes are all over the place! I like the consistent design on all the products and how they all rack together. You do not see too many companies that take a standard approach like this. I agree that it may not be for everyone but I do like it and get many compliments from folks that see it for the first time.

SQ: Huge north/south and east/west soundstage. Bass was deep and articulate -- really good. From here on the sound was just OK and uninvolving: it's warm and veiled in my system; the treble is not extended and rolls off early; the leading and ending edge of instrumental notes/vocals/percussion are rounded and overly smooth, i.e., no detail and no placement in a dimensional depth soundstage. My Snell E.5 Tower speaks and CA 840A are decidedly a bit cold and analytical with impressive detail -- the SQ from the EMO was still stubbornly too warm for me. If it was mated to a Marantz or NAD, would imagine it would be even warmer. My ears/system heard the warmth and the guys over at Audioreview concluded neutral SQ -- such is audio opinion.

I struggle with this description and would really like to know how you cabled the ERC to your gear? What kind of prepro were you using?


Compared to what? A/B'd same song, same time; 4 minute passages and a full days worth on each CDP for comparison-- a $220 Yamaha SACD (really pretty good on Redbook) player and the $450 Chinese brand MHZS 33 tube buffered CDP. Both the Yamanha and MHZS excelled where the EMO did not: Clarity, depth, and dynamic thrust.

How did you toggle between A/B? I had two players each with the same disk, both disks original, and did a loop on certain sections of the material and toggled back and forth at the push of a button. I tried to listen for differences in Ambiant decay and Ambiant attack, sibilance, sounds that I did not notice on one versus the other! I think it makes a difference to have an immediate toggle so that the contrasts are very current and repeatable! How did you do that?


Recommended: No. But, suggest you audition one yourself with an Emotiva money-back guarantee.

I agree on the audition yourself part and sorry it was not the deck for you as it was for me!! No Biggie!

Closing note, after 2 weeks I knew the ERC-1 wasn't doable for me, so picked up the CA DacMagic from AudioAdvisor for essentially the same 400 bucks.

That's Cool! Eventually I would like to have an outboard DAC for a media server. I have not gone this route yet but will at some point.! I have not used the DAC Magic but the reviews are good.

Wake up the kids and let out the dog, the Redbook SQ processed thru this outboard DAC is, much like the many Reviews have gushed, absolutely Terrific. This was A/B'd to the EMO before I sent it back and, again, no contest. The CA DAC is leaps and bounds superior in every aspect of SQ.

FWIW, will get around to reviewing the DacMagic.

What are some features that should be taken into account as you determine whether this is a good CD Player?

Here are some ideas;

1) Amplitude Output Linearity - This is a test result where all test frequencies are measured and the goal is to have ruler flat response. The ERC is 0.2db and I would look at other players spec on this.

2) 384 Oversampling - The ERC is over-clocked to read the data 384 times and sums up the reading. This is one of the reasons why I can play some disks that are heavily scratched or even have some pinholes where you can see through the disk and it plays without error. I have a check-CD disk and I use it when I go into shops and look at other gear. Handy little tool.

3) Channel Separation - I understand that any reading about 60dB is good and prevents cross-talk. The ERC is rated at 95dB

4) Output Voltage - Most units output 2V and on the bench they can be clipped when you drive them hard. I asked Lonnie about this particular spec and he replied that you could not ever clip the ERC as it is rated up to 7V peak rms.

Jaws, Thanks for sharing your impressions and it is always great to learn from others.

I do personally apologize for not taking a more constructive approach in viewing your report but since this forum does not allow you to delete threads or edit them after 20 minutes then it is now here for not much I can do about it.

I hope we can all start contributing our views on CD Players and in answering the question of whether the ERC is a good one.................It is for me for many reasons but it is so nice to have options as there are a lot of choices.

When I first started doing my research on how to evaluate a cd player. I found one publication that I referenced in my review at the bottom and I found that there are no real set standard specifications and much technical liberty to engineer products based on each manufacturers design goal which means we have to feret this out through reviews and discussions like this.

Happy holidays everyone and I hope we can finally move forward! Let's please make all future commentary focused on either providing more reviews or other commentary pertinent to answering the threads leading question which "Is the ERC any good".

kind regards,
SnS
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 11587
Registered: Feb-05
I'm confused. JAW sent his back and did you? What a mess...quotes being marked would help.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3435
Registered: Feb-07
Yeah man, that was hard to read.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 40
Registered: Nov-09
All of Jaws work is in black color text and my remarks are in cyan. You should be able to tell my remarks as the ones in the blue color.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 41
Registered: Nov-09
I am not about to send my player back as it is a keeper! It is a great player for me! Jaws did not like it and so be it!
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3436
Registered: Feb-07
Are you talking about in your email client, or on this page? Cause everything on this page is black text.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 42
Registered: Nov-09
Wow that is weird. Yes in the email it is all black and white but if you go to the forum page it shows the colors and I am seeing it on Exporer, and the Opera browser in full color!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14204
Registered: Dec-04
I like the Slot Load mechanism; it's smooth with nice utility v. a pop out tray and dropping the CD onto the platter. Fingerprints are no problem because the Disc is held by the edges and fed into the slot -- exactly the way that a disc is held and placed on a conventional drawer. Scratched discs are no problem

How the hell else would you handle a disc?!?
Is this meant to be webaudio for dummies?!?

I liked the turqoise to go with my drapes.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 3437
Registered: Feb-07
All black in Firefox. Oh well.

Turqoise drapes Nuck?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 43
Registered: Nov-09
Nuck, those are the words of Jaw not me!

I said "This is my first slot load device and it takes a little getting used to, but I am fine with it!"

You should be able to see my comments in CYAN and JAWS original post in Black Text. I have looked at two browsers and see two colors just fine! If you open an email and read the thread from there then it is all black text which would be confusing. Go to the actual forum and you should be able to read between the two posts. Interesting that you are poking at his words though!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 44
Registered: Nov-09
Your right! It is all black in Firefox and I have the current 3.5.6 version! Not much I can do about that! It does read in color for Opera v 10 and IE!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14209
Registered: Dec-04
Sns, what is your favorite piece of music?
Or 3?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 45
Registered: Nov-09
Nuck, Not sure if I am stepping into another landmine here but I will take your question as sincere. I am very glad that I could not whittle my favorites to one or three. So depends on the genre and I find myself liking the indie music a lot and buying much new material with my best sources for this as being;

WWW.3wk.com

Pandora

Satellite Radio and a currently "Currently Playing" thread on the Emo forum where I personally link what I play to www.allmusic.com

What music do you all favor?
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Gold CoastAustralia

Post Number: 2753
Registered: Nov-05
What music do you all favor?

Virtually anything not played on an Emotiva ERC-1

 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14210
Registered: Dec-04
Sns, I am currently working through a pile of RnR on vinyl, and stumbled across the Outlaws album that I heard only once before, anong with a band called Armeggedon.
I am studiously trying to like Jazz, but I lack context(?) for the music.

For some stuff, I am too white, I think.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sticknstones

Saint Inigoes, Maryland USA

Post Number: 46
Registered: Nov-09
I hear you on the Jazz! I went through a Jazz period with Joe Sample, Grover Washington, Return to Forever, David Sanborn, Bob James, Passport, Michael Franks, and many others when I grew weary of RnR for a time. I then drifted back to RnR and now with the internet there seems to be so much material to discover. In the old days you were kind of stuck with FM college radio, word of mouth and now the world awaits. I met a very nice young lady on my return flight from SFO this past weekend and she is with LuckMedia working as PR for unsigned or new Talent. She is going to send me the best of best that she discovers. It is a new world now for sure!

I still really like electric guitar and really dig finding new music. For me music is very personal and I like to listen by myself with my gear. I am very appreciative of the quality of my gear these days and will probably be a B&W speaker owner for life.

I now listen to Pavement, Eels, Elbow, Phil Judd, Raconteurs, Wrens, Wilco, Radiohead, Kristin Hersch, Dandy Warhols, Charlatans UK, House of Love, BrianJonesTown M, Shins, The The, Yo la Tenga, Modest Mouse, Elliott Smith, HeatMiser, No2, Pinback, Spoon, and could go on and on plus all the classics. I used to own the Outlaws on Vinyl as well but no longer have it. I have pretty good new age, classical, jazz disks but mainly buy Indie Rock and never quite got into country, rap or other styles.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14211
Registered: Dec-04
I struggled with BW speakers for a while, trying to justify the space for what they do, and in the end went another route.
I auditioned 802's and 703's for a while, with Classe power, then dropped the whole thing.
The big Mac sand amps never really piqued my toes with Bowers either, for some reason.

B&W sell zillions of speakers for a reason, however.
 

Silver Member
Username: Nmytree

Post Number: 372
Registered: Aug-04
Damn, I always handle my CDs with my toes and my nose. Now I'll have change my ways.

Nuck, try listening to some Kenny Burrell albums ( Bluesy Burrell, Soul Call, Lotus Blossom, Moten Swing, Midnight Blue, or Blues Bash! ).

It's more of a mellow bluesy type of jazz. With some songs ina soft swing.

I don't think you need context. I think, you either feel it or you ....don't. Shouldn't have to force oneself to like any music.

Blues Bash! or Lotus Blossom is just about as good place to start, as it gets.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 14214
Registered: Dec-04
Thanks, NMT, I will look around for the titles.
I am ok with most of Steely Dan.
Stryvn sent me some Louis Armstrong that I am also digesting.
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