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Upgrade suggestions?

 

New member
Username: Jazzzy

ZadarCroatia

Post Number: 2
Registered: Sep-09
Hello,

My setup is:

Rotel ra-1062 amp
Marantz cd5001 player
Dynaudio audience 52 speakers
Audioquest cables

Music preference: Jazz, blues mostly.

System works nice, above average I guess, but I would like a little more musical system.
Sometimes this combination causes listening fatigue.

My thoughts are:

Sell amp and player and go for Naim nait 5i-2 (later on add a naim cd5i-2 player), Dyn stays.
or
keep amp and speakers and change the source for Rotel rcd-1072 or rega apollo?

What do You think?

Thank You in advance for Your help...

Cheers, Frane
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 10729
Registered: Feb-05
If you can borrow or demo a different amp, that may tell you something. You don't say which Audioquest cables but those can probably be improved on with van den Hul or another high quality cable.

The Rotel is a nice little amp, I'm just not sure that it's up to driving the Dyn's adequately.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13939
Registered: May-04
.

Consider the overall character of the pieces you've assembled. Rotel and Dynaudio can both be tiresome if you're seeking "a little more" musicality rather than an overarching "listen to me now!" sometimes in your face presentation. Both Rotel and Dynaudio present well in showrooms where their first impressions suggest more detail than a similary priced component which favors musicality - the "it's clearer, I hear more" response from the propective buyer. In your price range it's very difficult to separate out the two objectives - pleasing musicality and subjectively correct levels of information - and not come up with something that fails at one or the other.

That shouldn't be taken as advice to buy more expensive gear, just advice to think about the system as a whole before you open your wallet for more stuff.


I'm not familiar enough with the Marantz to say how it fits into this match but I suspect there are players that can do a better job of satisfying you over the length of an evening than the 5001 can manage. It's just possible you've compounded the negatives with the Marantz and you'll need to come to grips with which component is the weakest link or scrap the whole lot and start over again without any better ideas on how to do this. So far your scattter shot approach to a solution doesn't convince me you've thought this out well enough. You're stilll thinking component by component rather than system as a whole.



First things first, however, what could you possibly do with what you already have to make things more livable (even if you change gear next month)? Has the system ever sounded good to you or has this been a problem that has crept up on you over time? If the system at one time sounded good, what has changed?

You or the system?


If you haven't approached system set up (stands and supports, isolation and coupling, etc.) and the system's interaction with the room, spending more money on cables and higher priced equipment is accomplishing nothing more than placing a (costly) BandAid over a large, unhealing wound. That sort of decision merely provides you a first class ticket onto the constant upgrade express and ensures you will continue to spend money on the wrong parts of the system.

I've not heard the vdH cables in a system such as yours but my opinion would be using cables to tame the sound is asking for less neutrality rather than more. Yes, we can argue about whether the AudioQuest cables are more or less neutral than others or whether the vdH cables are the more neutral - or colored, drab and lifeless as some claim, everyone's ears are different and taking one person's advice over your own hearing is generally a poor decision - but the point is you have more important problems to deal with than a tire patch made with new cables will solve. The point is you need to examine your priorities and get a handle on how to achieve desired goals

A choice between either a Rotel 1072 or an Apollo suggests to me, and I suspect most on this forum, that you don't have a good grasp on how to identify the most basic character of a component or how to establish synergy within systems. That showroom pizzazz still wiggles enticingly before you, toss in a few good reviews and you find yourself shoving dollar bills into Rotel or Rega's low cut outfit.

If you are the typical buyer at this point, you've purchased not by working with and listening to a good dealer but by jumping at a good deal. A gaggle of good deals seldom make a single good system. Maybe that's your fault - after all you are the one saying, "I'll take that" - and maybe it's the dealer's for not sticking it out with you, but the system you've put together would be one most any seasoned listener would expect to have exactly the problems you describe. You have a few components which on their own have received decent reviews but have problems of aggression when placed together and asked to play nicely while you attend to other matters. The good news, if there is any, is this is not the first time we've seen someone with a similar system complain of many of the same issues.


If any or all of this is true, and just swapping to other components that have garnered good reviews is not the answer, what would you say might be the best direction in which to move? You know your system better than we can ever hope to, what would you say might be a good idea if just buying more stuff isn't it?

Going back to when the system possibly sounded good to your ears, what would have made the difference between then and now? Without immediately jumping to buy more stuff you must have some other ideas, no?



And rest assured you can buy more expensive stuff after you've got this system sorted out. But let's not rush to the First Aid box for a larger BandAid just yet.


.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13588
Registered: Dec-04
Work on the room.
 

New member
Username: Jazzzy

ZadarCroatia

Post Number: 3
Registered: Sep-09
Hi and Thank You all for answering...

Art, Rotel is driving the Dyn's with ease! Other amps, like unico P and Rega mira i tried, was less capable than Rotel.
Actually, sound character is touch problematic I think. It is a bit on analytical side.
Cables are Audioquest type 4, pick them up because they sorted out fatigue to some degree.

Jan, My system still sounds good to me, only sometimes when I listen to music for few hours it becomes a little fatiguing!
What was the trigger for me to think about changes:
Recently I auditioned Naim nait 5i/cd5i and Vandersteen 1C, now that was musical!
Creamy sound with great dynamics. Big fun...
At that point I started to think about changes! I guess it is typical audiophile upgrade bug, rather then big system dissatisfaction!

Nuck, room is treated fine, carpets, curtains, book shelves, everything is there ;)

Right now I am on the line, upgrade to Naim or not! So push me over or talk me out of upgrade idea :-).


Cheers, Frane
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13940
Registered: May-04
.

If everything is fine but you want new gear, you don't need our permission or advice. Buy the system, set up and room you heard at your dealer. But know that an Apollo is not going to transform your Rotel into a Naim (a Rotel 1072 will do even less toward that end) and a Nait is not going to make your Dynaudios sound like Vandersteens.


.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13589
Registered: Dec-04
Frane, if you are familiar with the house sound and presentation that Naim brings, then the choice is simple.
 

Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 2143
Registered: May-06
How do you know if it was the Vandersteen 1C or the integrated Nait 5i or the Naim cd5i that you liked better?

Other factors are interconnects and speaker wire.

You may want to demo those pieces in your kit to see if any one stands out beyond the other or maybe it is the synergy of the three together that you are after.

Cheers
 

Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 2144
Registered: May-06
Frane, consider that perhaps you are not understanding us?

JV's first response seems more on target the more you communicate to us; "Rotel and Dynaudio can both be tiresome if you're seeking "a little more" musicality rather than an overarching "listen to me now!" sometimes in your face presentation."

There may have been a musicality to the combination you auditioned which your existing system does not have. That is why I suggested a synergy of the system that the dealer where you auditioned found for the set up you listened to versus the however the system you have came to be all together.

Fatiguing systems do not always take a couple of hours to make you want to leave the room. Turning up a fatiguing system to loud volume levels could have you exiting stage right pronto.

My kit is pretty much set the way I want it yet I still mess around trying out new Interconnects, power cords, and speaker wire. Any of those "components" can also contribute to a fatiguing sound.

Your English seems fine from this end.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 10731
Registered: Feb-05
You didn't get it Frane. I didn't think that the Rotel wouldn't drive the Dyn's it just isn't an ideal match and my experience with the Mira 3 which I owned and the Unico P which I own (traded the Mira 3 for), compared to a Rotel integrated or separates (which I owned) differs considerably from yours.

Buy the Nait 5i-2 and be done with it.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13941
Registered: May-04
.

Let's consider this approach; the Rotel system becomes fatiguing after a "few hours". How much time did you give the Naim system at the dealers' showroom? A few hours also?

Are you possibly making another decision that will pan out to be just as inconsistent over time as you did with your present system?

The Naim and Vandersteens should be a musical pairing and then the issue would be the "creamy" sound and "big dynamics". Appealing, yes?

How appealling will that be over time? Or will you find something else you find more appealing within a short while? If you've got the cash for this, then there's no problem. You will pass on some good deals on the gear you get rid of I hope.

It's your money, Frane, all we can do is ask questions at this point. You seem pretty certain there is nothing wrong with your present system and you just want something new. If you feel you can answer all of the questions honestly, then go buy the system. Buy all of it, half way won't do.

If that isn't what you wanted to hear, I would suggest you discuss this with the dealer. Any shop that didn't just fall into pairing Naim and Vandersteen should be able to guide you on a proper course. Otherwise, I don't get how you went from hearing a Naim/Vandersteen system to thinking a new Rega player would be a good idea. Where'd that logic come from?


.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13942
Registered: May-04
.

"That is why I suggested a synergy of the system that the dealer where you auditioned found for the set up you listened to versus the however the system you have came to be all together."



Time to turn the system down, Mike.



.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13591
Registered: Dec-04
Cheers!
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