Mixing old and new technology

 

New member
Username: Blue96flhtcu

Post Number: 2
Registered: May-09
I'm a newbie to this site as of today so go easy on me. In 1975 I purchased a McIntosh 1900, rated at 55 watts, and JBL L100 speakers and happy to say they are both alive and well. I recently purched a 52" Sony LCD, Samsung 2500, and a Pioneer SC-09 reciever. Until I can afford new speakers I am using the JBL L100 for my mains and similar JBL for center and rear. As of now I don't have a SUB. My question to the group is that I have to crank up the volume on the Pioneer to get the JBLs to really make some noise. This was not the case with my McIntosh, at half volume the speakers were loud enough for my taste. I used the MCACC automated speaker setup to configure the system. I double and tripled checked the wiring/polarity/phase but still don't understand the problem. I don't want to damage these speakers and/or AVR as the speakers will be used in another part of the house when new speakers are purchased. Any ideas appreciated.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13579
Registered: May-04
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You have five Century's in one room and you have to turn it up? HOLYCRAP! Whadda ya live in the Vatican?

Maybe it was all that listenin' at "half volume" on the Mac that did this to you.



Ahem ...

The position of the vc is relative to nothing other than another unit with the same vc and fed the same sources. Volume controls have different tapers that affect how loud the system plays at any particular setting on the vc. The input level of the receiver (in this case) works with the output level of the sources to determine the output wattage of the amplifier for any particular vc setting.

So you might just have a combination of electronics that requires you to crank up the control. It is the amount of clean wattage available to a speaker like the L100 that matters.

Does the system play loud enough for you? Are you running out of power or out of volume?


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New member
Username: Blue96flhtcu

Post Number: 3
Registered: May-09
My room is 15x15 with 18 ft. ceiling separated by a half wall leading into the kitchen and sunroom so there is lots of space to fill up. There is no lack of volume or power and does play loud enough for now. My concern was overdriving the amp or possibly damaging the speakers. I have auditioned B&W 800 series speakers and corresponding sub but need to save a few pennies before purchasing them. My JBL L100 sound every bit as good as the entry level B&W 684 but when you step up to the 800 series the sound stage is remarkable.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 12333
Registered: Dec-04
If you try to run the your speakers with that receiver for long, the speakers will be damaged.
If you try B&W speakers, thats a crime.

The receiver will clip, or oscillate and blow tweeters.

Real speakers need real power, ignoring wattage,and the 800 series usually is demo'd with fairly high end electronics and larg floor mounted amps.
Have you had a demo on the 800 series?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 12334
Registered: Dec-04
What gear does the Popester run in his shack?
 

Silver Member
Username: Jazzman71

Phoenix, AZ USA

Post Number: 733
Registered: Dec-07
What gear does the Popester run in his shack?

Likely German gear.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13585
Registered: May-04
.

I'd disagree with Nuck about damaging the L100's by using them with a receiver. Most L100's were probably used with a receiver. The first time I heard L100's was on a Quadrophonic Pioneer receiver with four speakers in four corners of the room. The Century's were very sensitive and highly efficient. Yes, you could clip the amplifier - it will not oscillate as a result of the load the L100's present - but assuming the Pioneer is a 5.1 receiver the volume level of virtually any amplifier clipping through L100's would be close to unbearable for most of us. While hardly indestructible, the JBL tweeter will withstand a considerable amount of abuse.

Speakers have progressed over the decades since the L100/4311 design but what you prefer is your choice. Changing to the B&W's will result in far less volume potential and they are not what I would consider pairing with the Pioneer receiver. The B&W's load is not easy for most receivers and I doubt the Pioneer would fare well over time. There are better receivers than the Pioneer to choose from if you decide on the B&W's but that gets you onto the upgrade loop rather quickly.

As long as you have sufficient power and sufficiently sensitive speakers to drive the system to your desired loudness levels, then you shouldn't worry about the position of the vc.



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New member
Username: Blue96flhtcu

Post Number: 4
Registered: May-09
I appreciate all the comments so far. I am currently running a Pioneer SC-09 which is their flagship AVR with 200 wts per channel, 10 channels. I am using the JBL L100 as a interim solution until I decide which speakers I want. I have auditioned the B&W 802s, at Myer Emco, and looking at the Paradigm Signature 8. The B&W 802 were powered by a McIntosh while the 684s were demoed with the Pioneer. I was told the Pioneer could in fact drive the 802s but that remains to be seen. If you have other speaker recommendations in this price range I certainly would appreciate it.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13586
Registered: May-04
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Pioneer builds the Elite line which is actually their mass market flagship. Not trying to insult your gear but what you have is still mainline Pioneer for the huddled masses. Not that I'm suggesting you buy from the Elite line either.

I wouldn't get overly confident of those 200 watts. "Could drive" and "do it well" are two vastly different things. The difference between a test bench and a real speaker or the difference between someone trying to make a sale and someone looking to buy something other than McIntosh.

Unfortunately, as Mac has changed hands over the last few years the line has gone into high volume home theater stores rather than the type of high end dealer where you probably purchased your first McIntosh. Don't you have any real audio dealers in your area?

B&W and Paradigm are good value lines nowdays but there's much better.


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New member
Username: Blue96flhtcu

Post Number: 5
Registered: May-09
Jan, Myer Emco and Audio Buys are the two high audio dealers in the DC Metro area, if someone knows of others I'd be more than happy to visit them. Myer Emco does offer Mac but I don't want to spend my grandchildrens inheritance. When I bought my Mac 1900 in 1975 it was a bit different, besides at 57 years old my hearing is not a acute as it once was. There is a point of diminishing return and for me the above speakers seem to have everything that I need, however I am always ready to audition others. What would you recommend? Thanks for the input!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13589
Registered: May-04
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I make it a point to not do recommendations for several reasons. The most obivous being you don't have my ears, my system or my room or listen to the music I listen to and, secondly, I have no idea what is available to you for audition. Check what's available and read about them on line. Don't rely on anyone's judgement other than your own. If the B&W's and Paradigms are what you think satisfies your needs, then those are the speakers to buy.

However, with any receiver at the heart of my system I would ask for an in home audition or a stated return policy before I spent money. Not everyone feels the need but one of the most often asked questions here is why the new speakers don't sound very good with the new AV receiver. Go down to the "receivers" and "speakers" section of the forum and do some research. Again, trust your ears above all others but know what you must deal with.

For one thing, you are not going to have the same volume potential with something else after living with the JBL's for a few decades. Secondly, beware of any speaker that dips down beneath six Ohms with any receiver short of a McIntosh. Impedance isn't the only thing to consider but understanding the impedance and electrical sensitivity of the new speakers will go along way toward making the Pioneer happy.


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New member
Username: Blue96flhtcu

Post Number: 6
Registered: May-09
I couldn't agree with you more about room acoustics, AVR, speakers, interconnects, etc. all playing a part in sound quality. Myer Emco has a 30 day full return policy no questions asked and a will give you a full credit if you trade up within one year of purchase. You are limited to the manufactures they deal with but at least you are not locked in forever. Besides, systems in the price range I am talking are all very good, hard to be unhappy and while there will always be subtle differences in the end it is all about how you enjoy your system. Thanks again, will update when I make my final selection.

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