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Bronze Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 88 Registered: Dec-07 | What do you guy's think about putting vibrapod isolators under speakers. The pod would go between the speaker and a marble tile. The speakers are Totem Sttaf's. I have taken out the spikes and replaced them with small rubber bumpers and have them sitting on the marble tile. This was an improvement over the spikes into the carpet. I've been reading about how great they are suppose to be under speakers. I'm going to get some for my components, as they sit on glass shelves, and thought maybe for the speakers as well. Here is a link to a review. http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize011999.htm |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2163 Registered: Oct-04 | You might want to give these at shot while you're at it http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/isoblocks.php . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8167 Registered: Feb-05 | Try it Steve and let us know...I have a whole bunch of Vibrapods...work well in some applications and not so well for others. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1547 Registered: May-06 | Steve, as Art says try it. No matter what I or anyone else can tell you, your mileage WILL vary. I removed my Black Diamond Racing Cones ($$$$) and replaced them with Jenga game wooden tiles ($). For my most recent experiment I am using the Cones under some Birch rectangles I had cut for under my speakers for mass weighting purposes. I will change to speaker spikes when my experiment runs its course. Those look interesting CM. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 89 Registered: Dec-07 | I'll let you guy's know how they work. Have to get my speakers fixed first. They haven't even picked them up yet, UPS problems. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3374 Registered: Sep-04 | My experience is not unlike Art's so generally I shy away from vibrapods. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 310 Registered: Jun-08 | Have any of you tried hockey pucks? I've heard that these can do a decent job, as well at a very low cost. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 90 Registered: Dec-07 | George, I don't know but I would think hockey pucks would be too hard and not be able to absorb minute vibrations. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 91 Registered: Dec-07 | Frank, do you think cd players have enough vibration isolation without additional isolators? I tried halved squash balls but found no benefit. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 311 Registered: Jun-08 | Mini drain/toilet plungers or squash balls sitting in a PVC pipe cap? |
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Bronze Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 92 Registered: Dec-07 | I think that just might be the answer lol. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13122 Registered: May-04 | . "What do you guy's think about putting vibrapod isolators under speakers. The pod would go between the speaker and a marble tile. The speakers are Totem Sttaf's. I have taken out the spikes and replaced them with small rubber bumpers and have them sitting on the marble tile. This was an improvement over the spikes into the carpet." You are very likely headed in the wrong direction with Vibrapods under the speakers but sitting on the marble tile which is still sitting on the carpet. I suspect the marble was an improvement over the spikes because the marble compressed the sponginess of the carpet and pad underneath and made for a more stable footing for the speakers. Here's the idea; you want to fix the speaker enclosure in space. If you allow the speaker to sit on anything spongy, i.e. carpet and rubber pad or rubber feet, the force of the driver's movement in the speaker cabinet will slightly move the enclosure. Once you have the enclosure to the point it does not move when force is applied to it the drivers move but the enclosure remains stable. Spiking has several advantages but it must be done correctly or it has no benefits. When a speaker is correctly spiked, the spikes get through the carpet fiber and through the pad underneath to reach the actual flooring under everything. This means the length of the spike is important, it must be long enough to pierce the carpert and pad and still have some left over to raise the speaker above the carpet fiber. Once you have adjusted the spikes correctly you can push as hard as you like on the speraker cabinet from any direction and the speaker feels as if it is bolted to the floor - literally it cannot move when spiked according to plan. I suspect you didn't have the spikes through to the floor and leveled correctly in your first experiment and now the marble has sufficient mass to weigh down the carpet and pad a bit and provide a more constant surface for the speakers instead of the irregular support of the carpet. Probably the speaker cabinet doesn't wobble appreciably when you push on it now but the rubber foot is still not the answer in most cases, at a micro-level the rubber feet are still acting as rubber balls under your speakers and allowing for some movement against the force of the driver's motion. Here's what I would do, first, remove the rubber feet and try the spikes again. The marble is still a more stable platform than poorly set spikes and now the spikes can rest atop the marble slab. Set the spikes up as I've described, the speaker enclosure should feel bolted to the floor when you are done leveling and you push on the speaker from either side or front and back. If the speaker wobbles when you push, either reset the spikes for proper level or remove the marble and try setting the spikes through the carpet and pad down to the floor itself. If the spikes aren't long enough to go through to the actual flooring material, order some that are. If you are still wondering about the Vibrapods, save yourself some money and try squash or tennis balls cut in half before you buy the Vibrapods. You can buy a bag of squash/tennis balls at any sporting goods shop or Target or WallMart for less than $10. Cut them in half with a razor knife and try them under your speakers. Three works better than four and will self-level with just three points of contact. If you think this sounds best, give the Vibrapods a try. . |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1571 Registered: May-06 | Slightly off topic, I know but... I have hockey pucks under my pre-amp's transformer, power cables, the one IC that runs along the carpet and the speaker wire from my sub-map to my second coil on my speakers. My application of hockey pucks is to eliminate any electrical connection with my carpet. It is my understanding that ceramic (coffee cups?) works the same way. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 93 Registered: Dec-07 | Jan, very informative, thank you. It does seem logical to secure the speaker to the floor for better driver performance. Today I sharpened the spikes so they will go through the carpet and under lay. I'm going to give that a try before I try the Vibrapods. I think I'm still going to get vibrapods for my cd player and maybe the amp. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2182 Registered: Oct-04 | Don't laugh, I picked up two pairs of "memory" foam insoles at the .99-cent store that I'm going to cut-up & try under my CD players feet. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13125 Registered: May-04 | . "It is my understanding that ceramic (coffee cups?) works the same way." No, your wife doesn't give a diddly if she doesn't have enough hockey pucks. "I'm going to cut-up & try under my CD players feet." Here's what MW and I use. A rubber QwikCap from the plumbing supplies at Home Depot - choose your size accordingly. This has a depression in the center much like the metalic Roller Ball devices. Place a squash/raquetball in the center depression of the QwikCap and use this under your electronics. Add how many or how little get the sound you like. Or just toss a bag of balls under your components for a quick listen. Post a picture, Mike. . |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 129 Registered: Dec-07 | I've had the Vibrapods under my cdp for a handful of days and have noticed an improvement. I think mainly there is more detail and a little smother sound. Vocals seem more three dimensional than before. Keep in mind that I'm listening through my old Yamaha speakers, haven't got the Sttaf's back yet. I also just jot two VH Audio power cables. One Flavor 4 for the amp and a Flavor 1 for the cdp. Here is a link incase you are interested http://www.vhaudio.com/powercables.html . Right out of the box these cables are a great improvement. After burn in I will post my impressions. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 88 Registered: Mar-08 | "Do you think cd players have enough vibration isolation without additional isolators? I tried halved squash balls but found no benefit." I put some Bright-Star IsoNodes ( http://www.brightstaraudio.com/isonode.htm ) under my Oppo CDP which feeds a CI Audio VDA-2 DAC and noticed a hugh difference. Much more bass, more bass extension, bigger sound stage, more focus and detail - old CDs now sounding much more like albums. My CDP "stand" was warped (not level) though which might account for some of the difference. I ended up using three of the large ones (instead of four). |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 139 Registered: Dec-07 | That's great Rick, I'm glad those worked out for you. They kinda look like squash ball I cut in half to use under my cdp, which didn't make any difference. Probably because they were too hard and couldn't absorb vibrations to well. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 89 Registered: Mar-08 | Steve, The isonodes are quite soft. They flatten out a bit from just the weight of the CDP (mine's pretty light). They also tend to stick to both surfaces - the flat side has some adhesive on it, but the rounded end flattens out and adheres on its own. Not sure what the squash balls are like (I don't even play tennis!). Given the results so far, I'll probably try some more isonodes under my DAC. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11323 Registered: Dec-04 | http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=146242#146242&sid=ef5297878 28bcfab7f733293b1e3297e |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3450 Registered: Sep-04 | Steve, In response to your question: Frank, do you think cd players have enough vibration isolation without additional isolators? I tried halved squash balls but found no benefit. I think that adding extra isolators modifies the way the player works. Whether this is better or worse depends on what the isolators are doing. I am not surprised that halved squash balls would not make much of a change. By halving the balls, you've removed almost all their elasticity. The true test would have been to use complete balls which would have added an element of air bearing suspension to the system. I am not saying it would sound better - just different. Consider what is going on here. The designer has made some assumptions about the hardness of the typical support and how to control two things: 1. The vibration in the unit itself borne of the spinning mechanism. 2. The vibration in the world trying to get into the unit. The latter is a very low order vibration typically in the low hz (below 7hz typically). This needs complex and physically hefty solutions so inthe case of something like a CD player most designers simply use mass to damp the entire case, or ignore it completely. The former is also a pain in the neck because the speed of rotation of the disc varies significantly giving rise to different harmonics depending on the amount of vibration caused by odd inconsistencies in the disc being played, as well as any eccentricity in the clamping mechanism. Usually the mounting of the mechanism in the player can be managed with rubber mounts. Sometimes 9as in rega's case), the designer uses a hard mount so that the case absorbs the vibrational energy and dissipates it out of the player through relatively hard feet. Now, how does adding the vibrapods affect the system? Since you can't know the frequencies of the resonances as they occur, you're hoping that the vibrapods' natural low frequency resonance (you see them wobble) will be low enough for them not to act as a reflector but as a soak. However, if their amount of movement is relatively high, then the casework and feet aren't allowed to do their work and the vibrational energy could last in the system longer than was designed int he first place. Without knowing the various frequency factors, it's not possible to gauge in advance whether something will be better or not, merely that it will most likely be different. In your case you've detected more detail and smoother sound. The smoother sound sends alarm bells since this is often a sign of lost resolution, but you specifically mention more detail so it appears the effect of the vibrapods in these respects makes a difference for the better. My real concern would be rhythm and timing. That's where many of these things seem to fall down. If you find the player less thrilling or engaging than before then it's likely this has suffered by comparison to before and only you can decide which is the compromise you want to live with. |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 142 Registered: Dec-07 | Frank, that was very enlightening, thank you. It does not appear to have affected PRaT. There seems to be only improvements to the music. The real test will be when I finally get my Totem's back and listen with them. |