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New member Username: TripsterPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-08 | Hello. This is my first post. I've been really getting into hifi stuff ovr the past few years and I'm about ready to improve on my system. This is an interesting message board with alot of very knowledgible folks! I have a question regarding audio racks. What kind do you use/recommend? I'm in an extremely small room (like 10'x10') so I need something compact. Not extraneously wide or deep, shorter than 30" with ideally 3 shelves (4 surfaces) for amp, preamp, CD player and turntable. I've thought about removing the drawers and backing from a nightstand as the stuff will fit in it without wasted space... but I have concerns with the amplifier not getting enough circulation to cool down. Is this a bad plan? Any other suggestions? I've found little to no personal reviews concerning audio racks so far on the interweb. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1257 Registered: Feb-07 | Good question, trip. My audio "rack" for now is a crappy shelving unit that will have to do for the meantime. Ventilation is always an issue. What amp do you have? |
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New member Username: TripsterPost Number: 2 Registered: Aug-08 | Right now I have the Technics receiver I bought with lawn mowing $ when I was a kid. It doesn't sound very good but it still works and it's over 20 years old! I'm about a month away from buying a rotel 1070 pre-amp and 1070 amplifier. I've been saving and checking them out for a while. I have a nice AR ES-1 turntable and unimpressive speakers. I'm planning to get some paradigm speakers once I've saved up some more cash. That's the setup I've liked the best in the store... by far. My only concern is my room is about an 1/8th the size of the listening room at the store. That's alot of power for such a small space. But the acoustic bass sounded so full and clear! Plus, when the little ones outgrow the playroom I might ("might" being the operative word) get a bigger room! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12893 Registered: May-04 | . http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/flexye.html How big is the room? |
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New member Username: TripsterPost Number: 3 Registered: Aug-08 | Thanks for the link. I'll look into the project. The room is small. Maybe 10'x10'. Possibly 12'x12' but I doubt it. Add a small desk, 3 5-shelf bookcases of LPs, 2 10-shelf CD bookcases, and a listening chair and it's real tight! |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1261 Registered: Feb-07 | I have the same Rotel amp. It's a half decent unit, but I found it's picky about what speakers you use with it. I've heard that Rotel/Paradigm is a good combo. Welcome to the forum, Trip. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12894 Registered: May-04 | . Think standmounted, high quality monitor speakers for this room. The room determines the bass extension and the overall response of the speaker. A room the size of yours simply can't support the deep bass extension most well designed floor standing speakers can produce. And you don't need it in most cases. People confuse how much bass with how low the bass extends. Low "E" on an electric bass is at 42Hz. Buy a high quality speaker that extends to about 55Hz on paper and, once it's in your room, you'll have all the room supported bass extension you're likely to require. It's better to give up what you see on paper for what you hear in the room. A small speaker can producte substantial bass in a small room, if you can position it well. Smaller speakers are typically easier to place in smaller rooms than large speakers when other furniture must be accounted for. You will find it easier to move a high quality monitor into a spot where it does not excite the room modes which cause lumpy bass. Additionally, you can keep a monitor further away from the side wals which will provide greater openess and clarity to the sound. If you move the speakers to a larger room you can always add a good subwoofer to provide bass extension. Most people use very little in the way of "watts" when they listen at anything near comfortable levels. One to ten watts is typical of what is required to get things up and going. It is far more important to find a speaker that doesn't require lots of power and then provide high quality watts rather than lots of power but not much quality. Find a speaker with a fairly high "sensitivity" spec that you find easy to listen to and then buy the best amp not necessarily the biggest. The concept of lots of watts and lots of bass is for the car stereo guys. You'll do better forgetting anything a car stereo guy tells about home audio, the two are totally different birds. Buy your system to impress yourself not your friends. Do your shopping at an independent audio dealer and not the big box stores. You'll get more for your money with the smaller dealership. . |
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New member Username: TripsterPost Number: 4 Registered: Aug-08 | Thanks David. The reason I got interested in Rotel was after hearing a that pairing at a friend's house. It sounded so good. When the last amplifier crapped out I decided to save and get something good that doesn't already have one foot in the grave when I aquire it. I could have bought something that sounds great with the money I've spent on used receivers that sound decent over the past 10 years! And I always have my old Technics in the interim to get me by while I research and save $. When I told the sales guy I had a small room and was interested in a Rotel amplifier he went straight for the Paradigms. I read alot of good reviews of Rotel's integrated amp and was thinking chances were good I'd like that one. But it was disappointing when I heard it. I tried the 1070 pre amp with the 1050 amp and it was better. then I tried the 1070 amp and it sounded like the heavens opened up! I'm hoping the 1070's will sound good with my current JBL speakers (another holdover from high school!) for a few months while I save up the cash to upgrade to the Paradigms . You like the amp? What Preamp and speakers are you using? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1264 Registered: Feb-07 | Which Paradigms are you looking at? Right now I have an old Kenwood receiver that's temporarily doing pre-amp duties. I have ordered a Rotel RA-02 integrated that's on it's way to replace this. I'm using Totem Sttafs with this rig. The Rotel/Totem pairing is very nice. Open and airy, with just the right amount of aggression and edge. |
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Bronze Member Username: AfjGaboroneBotswana Post Number: 99 Registered: Jan-08 | hi trip considering the size of your room, if i were you, i'd buy a better amp with a lower output. i dont have a lot of experience with various products, but cambridge audio does come to my mind. similarly for the speakers, a good pair of bookshelfs would do nicely. there was a thread a few weeks ago on bookshelf speakers. like david said, rotel amps are pretty unforgiving if not paired well so if youre still buying that make sure you listen to the speakers on it before you do have fun |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1266 Registered: Feb-07 | With your room dimensions, it may be worthwhile to check out the Trends T-Amp. If you don't like, you're out 140 bucks, or sell it on Agon for pretty much what you paid for i t. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2939 Registered: May-05 | Trip, Jan is 100% correct in everything he said. That room is way too small for what you're attempting to put in it. I understand that just because an amp is 200 watts doesn't mean you intend on using them all, but you're paying extra money for nothing here IMO. You stated the 1070 amp sounded better than the 1050. This may have been because the attached speakers needed the extra control from the bigger amp. If they were difficult speakers, then this is why you heard this. Another reason why may have been that the volume was simply louder, or the gain was higher. Most often, a person will prefer the slightly louder one. It begs the question - what speakers did you hear the Rotel gear with? In my experience with Rotel, the main difference between their amps is power. They all sound very similar. A more powerful amp will control a more difficult speaker better. But with an easy speaker, there's very little, if any difference. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I've observed. If you have a room that small, you really should have smaller speakers. I'm not sure which Paradigms you're contemplating, but they should be monitors. Tower speakers easily overpower a small room. In my experioence, small spakers sound so much better in a small room than big speakers do. This coming from a guy who until about 2 years ago hated most monitor speakers. |
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New member Username: TripsterPost Number: 5 Registered: Aug-08 | Wow. Thanks for all the information and advice. That gives me alot more to check out! I am a little concerned about paying alot of $ for a powerful amp in a tiny room. Seems like overkill. But I'm also looking to the future when I get to move my stuff into what is currently the "playroom" for the ankle biters. To be honest, I spend most of my music listening time with headphones when everybody else is asleep. So much so, that I was/am considering just getting a headphone amp instead. But it seems more financially solvent to get that later if necessary. I don't remember the specific model speakers other than that they were Paradigms and small (bookshelf or studio, I assume). Even if I wanted to I couldn't use tower speakers. There'd be no room left for me! Not to mention placement is going to be a serious challenge. There's very little free space and I don't want to create any weird feedback between the speakers and the turntable. The bass being adequately represented dynamically is important but clarity is my biggest concern. With the integrated amp it was murky. With the separates using a lower watt amp the bass was much clearer but the dynamics were uneven because the bass was too quiet relative the piano, drums and horns (it may help to know I listen mostly to jazz). When the more powerful amp was used the bass suddenly sounded in balance with the rest of the band. That's why I assumed it was not a total waste to use a high watt amp for such a small space. Thanks again for all your thoughts. It's very helpful. Keep them coming! |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1269 Registered: Feb-07 | If you're looking at the Monitor line of Paradigm speakers (assuming your dealer has the version 5 series) give the Atoms a serious listen. I have them and they are good speakers, and they sound quite good with the 1070. I did find they were a little shy on the bass... or rather the low end sounded a tad compressed. I think they only dip down to 50 Hz. Anyway, they sound good in a small room. I've heard the v5 Titans are something to stay away from... I think Nick gave them a listen. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7480 Registered: Feb-05 | Pick up a Rega Brio 3 and a pair of R1's and don't look back. In a room your size that is an awesome pair that will present jazz wonderfully (that is acoustic jazz). Just a thought. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12899 Registered: May-04 | . "A more powerful amp will control a more difficult speaker better. But with an easy speaker, there's very little, if any difference. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I've observed." Yeah, that's generally right, if the company has a house sound. Not all manufacturers are consistent from their small amps to their large amps. A company like McIntosh sounds more or less the same with efficient speakers no matter the watts on paper because you're only using a few of the watts at any one time. A company like Adcom, not so much on the "house sound". Lots of people like the lower wattage amplifiers from companies like Adcome because of the simplicity of design - one pair of output transistors rather than three or four pairs, a few caps and resistors and that's about it. If a company can't produce a cosnsitent house sound, I figure they really don't have a clue what music sounds like and they are designing for on paper numbers and a price point. Pass them by. Art's suggestion is, IMO, a better choice than the Rotel but that's because I think there's lots of stuff better than Rotel - and lots of stuff that's worse by a good size leap. And there's better stuff for the dollar than Rega for some people. But Rega has a house sound that's easily identifiable. Rega's head honcho Roy Gandy knows what music sounds like to him and lots of people agree with what he hears. I still go back to knowing what music sounds like and not what a hifi sounds like. Get a reference for real music and find stuff that reminds you of that. I know it's difficult to not want to buy something just to have something, but you seldom end up with the best system that way. Read the forum for thoughts on system synergy - all things playing up the best of the other and downplaying the weaknesses of the others - and be patient. Good things come to those who wait - if they know what they should be hearing. . |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2941 Registered: May-05 | Art's Rega suggestion is a great one. For the money, that combo is pretty much impossible to beat. Add a good source (like a Rega Apollo), and its mind boggling how good it can get for it price. Only caveat with the Brio 3 - It doesn't have a remote control. It shouldn't matter, but it does. In a room your size it probably won't, seeing as how the Brio be very close by. But in a larger room, you'll have to get up to change the volume. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2942 Registered: May-05 | No one has asked - what is the overall budget? What are you using as a source and/or are you going to buy a new one? |
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New member Username: TripsterPost Number: 6 Registered: Aug-08 | I have an AR ES-1 turntable and a Sony CD player. The turntable is good, although it's probably due for a new cartridge. There isn't a specific budget, really. After I checked some stuff out and determined I liked the rotel 1070 pre amp and amp I started saving toward those which run about $1000 for the 2 together at Spearit sound which is the only hifi store I know of nearby. I plan to upgrade speakers and the CD player when I save up the cash again. I'm pretty sure Spearit doesn't deal with Rega, unfortunately. So I'd have no way to audition that set up. But I think I'll research to see if there's another dealer who does. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1275 Registered: Feb-07 | I've seen some Rega stuff on the Spearit website before. I've dealt with them before. Recommended. |