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New member Username: Jay222Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-08 | Not to start up another bi-wiring episode, but my recent experience bi-wiring my Paradigm studio 20s caused me to revisit this. Firstly, perhaps some people do not hear a difference, and perhaps in certain speaker/amp/cable combinations that may be true. I can tell you, without a doubt, that the moment I bi-wired my 20s there was a very significant difference. The question now is, is this really desirable. The interesting effect for me was that the depth and air of the soundstage was amazing. The disadvantage was that I felt the low-mid presence was less, and a very strange phase type zinging effect (thats my technical description) was very noticeable at times depending on my exact listening position etc. So, i've read many posts about bi-wiring, and in particular i was interested by Jan's view on this. Since my sanity was in question, I searched around and did in fact find some information that leads me to believe I am not completely insane. I cannot verify who exactly did these tests and analysis, or how accurate or correct they might be, but it sure does seem to explain what I was hearing. Here is an excerpt and a link to the full article: "One thing that happens when you biwire your loudspeakers is that the input of the high- and the low-pass filters are fed with different input signals. The difference is a result of the high frequencies and the low frequencies being forced to travel different paths, perhaps through different types of cables, but under all circumstances through cables who have seen different loads (a tweeter with a high pass filter has a completely different impedance response compared to a woofer with a low pass filter!)." "What happens is that the drivers will work less good together than when their filter halves were fed with equal signals. The result is a generation of more static and stochastic phase error sounds at different directions from the loudspeaker. The stochastic phase error sounds appear because there may be different types of unlinearities in the low- and high-frequency paths." http://www.sonicdesign.se/biwire.html I am also tempted to ask paradigm about this, since they recommend bi-wiring studio 20s. jay |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1083 Registered: May-06 | jay, trust what you hear, what we think is about what we hear and probably irrelevant to what you hear. Switch back and if you like it better with jumpers you have your answer. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12195 Registered: May-04 | . " ... in particular i was interested by Jan's view on this." I have views? I don't know who wrote that article but I'd like to know how you use a word like "stochastic" and then use "unlinearities" and "less good". The article is simply full of errors and nonsense. "If you look at the damping factor that reduces the unwanted signals however you will find that they differ very little with or without cables (with 5 or 0 metre long cables for example)." Zero meters long? uh ... Howdeydodat? Damping factor is a ratio of the amplifier's output impedance to the load impedance of the speaker. Therefore, the damping factor changes dramatically when the amplifier is not connected to a speaker! I wouldn't gather too much information from that article, js. The facts are wrong and the conclusions are based on the "facts" as this guy sees them. Without any more information on your set up, it's impossible to guess why you got the results you did. However, one of the problems with bi-wiring is the tweak doesn't work equally well on all systems. The results depend largely on the speaker's crossover. Which cables you choose and which amplifier you connect to are also factors in the results you achieve. Trying various cables can give different results. . |
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New member Username: Jay222Post Number: 2 Registered: Jan-08 | thanks for the reply, i am using good quality everything (admittedly not ultra high end). Keep in mind that article was translated. It was originally written by Ingvar Ohman who designed these: http://www.guruproaudio.com/newguru/?page_id=10 you seem quick to discount this Jan, which is interesting. Do you really think Ingvar is full of "nonsense"? I am surprised you would not look at this article and say "hmmm, interesting, perhaps flawed, but a possibility". my reasons for my first post on this forum are: 1) I've spent a lot of time researching and hearing many opinions about bi-wiring and related issues, and it might be helpful for someone else to see what i experienced in my particular setup. I am no guru, but I have spent much of my time in recording studios etc, (both good and bad ones), and I know what I hear, what I don't know is why, which is what I'm beginning to learn. Why should I not only trust my ears? well, because I not only want to hear what sounds "nice" to me, I want to hear it accurately as the recording was intended. 2) to see if anyone else has had similar bi-wiring results 3) to see if Jan would try to explain these phase errors. Your a fiesty one Jan and I do appreciate your "view" ;) jay |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12201 Registered: May-04 | . Language differences and translation problems aside, I simply find too many assumptions presented as fact that I understand to be oppposite what the article presents. I'm not an engineer and I am not a designer, so I make no claim to knowledge beyond the norm. But this article doesn't do it for me. What I get from this article - and I read it quickly - is that you should try various cables if you wish to bi-wire your speakers. I can't disagree with that idea. I just disagree with how the author apparently arrived at that point. IMO, there are far better articles explaining bi-wiring. A few threads on this forum have done a better job of explaining the benefits and disadvantages of bi-wiring than that particular article. . |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 411 Registered: Jul-07 | I started a thread on it, got some good help, and went ahead and bi-wired both my Quad11L and Castle Severns. I think that they sounded fuller, or more bass but with no bad effect. I could be imagining that too. Only a blind listening test would prove what I really can hear, and I don't have anyone with the time to switch my speakers back and forth to test me. I will stick with the improvement, delusional or not. |