Back in the groove: young music fans ditch downloads and spark vinyl revival
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1148 Registered: Oct-04 | Back in the groove: young music fans ditch downloads and spark vinyl revival · Sales of 7in singles rise by 13% in first half of year · New bands and collectors turning to old format Katie Allen, media business correspondent Monday July 16, 2007 The Guardian The format was supposed to have been badly wounded by the introduction of CDs and killed off completely by the ipod-generation that bought music online. But in a rare case of cheerful news for the record labels, the latest phenomenon in a notoriously fickle industry is one nobody dared predict: a vinyl revival. Latest figures show a big jump in vinyl sales in the first half of this year, confirming the anecdotal evidence from specialist shops throughout the UK. It comes as sales of CD singles continue to slide - and it is not being driven by technophobic middle-aged consumers. Teenagers and students are developing a taste for records and are turning away from the clinical method of downloading music on to an MP3 player. The data, released by the UK's industry group BPI, shows that 7in vinyl sales were up 13% in the first half, with the White Stripes' Icky Thump the best seller. Two-thirds of all singles in the UK now come out on in the 7in format, with sales topping 1m. Though still a far cry from vinyl's heyday in 1979, when Art Garfunkel's Bright Eyes alone sold that number and the total vinyl singles market was 89m, the latest sales are still up more than fivefold in five years. For record stores, the resurgence has meant a move from racks of vintage Rolling Stones and Beatles releases to brand new singles and younger buyers. "The student population seem to be loving the 7in," says Stuart Smith, who runs Seismic Records in Leamington Spa, Warwickshire. He sells 300-600 records a week and is preparing to launch an online store. "I'm still not sure about the MP3 generation. You can have a full hard drive and nothing to show for it. Record collections are very personal. You can view into a person's soul really," he says. The customers rummaging through racks at his store, a small room above a skate shop, are students and DJs. When Mr Smith opened the vinyl shop in early 2005, digital download sales were rocketing and, amid rampant piracy, global music revenues were several years into their current downward spiral. A shop selling LPs and 7in singles didn't sound like the most promising business plan. But when his employers at the local outlet of music chain Fopp - now closed down - decided to stop selling vinyl it was something he couldn't resist. "I just couldn't understand why they decided to turn their backs on it. I saw an opportunity to do something I love doing. I've been a collector myself for years," says the 31-year-old. "It's just one of things. It just felt right." Two years on, the White Stripes' Icky Thump has just notched up the highest weekly sales for a 7in single for more than 20 years. Retailers and record labels put the rising vinyl sales down to bands rediscovering the format and to music fans' enduring desire to collect. It's not unusual for fans to buy a 7in but have nothing to play it on, says Paul Williams at industry magazine Music Week. "It's about the kind of acts that have very loyal fan bases that want everything to do with that act," he says. "They maybe will buy the download to listen to, but they get the vinyl to own. It's looked at like artwork." HMV agrees that vinyl is back from the brink, and the chain has been rapidly expanding its record racks to meet rising demand. The group's Gennaro Castaldo cites the huge popularity of "indie" bands, such as Franz Ferdinand and Arctic Monkeys, which enjoy loyal followings among teenagers and students, especially during the summer festival season. "Labels have realised that it's cool for bands to release their music on vinyl, especially in limited edition form, which makes it highly collectible," he says. London company Art Vinyl has built a whole business out of the format's visual and tactile appeal by selling easy-to-open frames to display records and their sleeves. For fans, buying and owning a record can provide a welcome change from the anonymity of online downloads, says Art Vinyl's founder Andrew Heeps. "If you go into a record shop to buy something, you feel part of something," he says. "The fact that last year we sold over 9,000 frames to people says an awful lot about where the market is going." Cara Henn, a DJ and regular Seismic Records customer says going to the store puts her in touch with her peers and has hammered home the vinyl trend. "I've really been getting back into my vinyl. I love it," she says. "I like to hear crackling, as if it's actually real. Especially with drum'n'bass, DJs are really encouraging fans to buy vinyl." |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 49 Registered: Jul-07 | This coincides with the rise in DJs in bars that used to hire bands. Cheaper for the bar and has been bad for bands according to what musicians in Seattle tell me. Anybody can be a DJ. No musical talent or skill required. I guess I could sell a couple old Technics tables. Unfortunately not the model on the cover of the new Sensible Sound. http://www.sensiblesound.com/backissues.htm |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2265 Registered: Sep-04 | On Saturday I had a young lady come in asking about a HiFi and I played her the Arcam Solo. At the moment this comes with an iPod dock so she duly tried her iPod in there. When I mentioned that MP3 wasn't a particularly good source, she was shocked and didn't believe me until she happened to put on a Green Day track she'd ripped from her own CD which was she'd brought along. Direct comparison between the two was short and sharp - she was shocked at the difference (I suspect she's been using 128kb/s MP3 all along). I had to explain all about how there are different codecs for the iPod etc - she knew none of this and assumed that what she'd been doing was as good quality as CD all along! The sad thing in reading the above is the fact that many of those buying the records don't have the equipment to play it on. Seems wrong somehow. What's that saying? A ship is safe in a harbour but that's not what ships are for... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1965 Registered: May-05 | I couldn't agree with you more on your last point Frank. My opinion is that they're buying the stuff for it collectability and retro/nostalgic aspect. Not for sound quality. Not that that's true with all of them, but I'd assume a very strong majority. On the positive side of that however, is that with more people buying vinyl - why is irrelevent in this context - the demand goes up, therefore hopefully making the decision for more titles to be released on vinyl an easier/safer one for executives. Hopefully one or two of the people buying them will spin one randomly and realize what they're missing. Especially compared to their iPods. |
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Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 36 Registered: Jul-07 | As a vinyl and CD collector, I would have to agree with you Stu. I have a few vinyl LP's whose sound is much more musical than the corresponding CD. But they are usually the audiophile titles or otherwise exceptional recordings and the mastering job on the CD sucks. Some of the standard release Steely Dan LP's represent a few notable exceptions. Blood, Sweat & Tears early releases are other examples. Truly amazing sound when properly recorded, mastered and set down on decent quality vinyl. But still no match for the CD's dynamic range. When CD's first hit the market, there was a rush to get some of the most popular titles onto the little plastic disc with digital sound. In that process, many of the early releases suffered from poor mastering-frequently, sound was entirely too bright and midrange suffered tremendously. During that period, I felt many of the original LP releases sounded better. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1969 Registered: May-05 | While I agree with a lot of what you say, but I think being analog still accounts for something. I have a Black Sabbath re-mastered CD boxed set, and a few of the same titles on 180gm vinyl. Supposedly they are the same mix, only difference being medium, but the Vinyl sounds better in every way. I have a few other titles that are along the same lines as well. While this may be interpreted as my turntable is better quality than my CD player, I don't think it is. I'd say they're on par with each other, or possibly my CD player is higher regarded than my turntable - Rega Apollo vs Pro-Ject 1Xpression w/ stock Sumiko Oyster cart. I really could use a new cartridge. |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 52 Registered: Jul-07 | Interesting. I will be soon (hurry mail!) playing my old classics on vinyl that I have on cd but as you say, it will be as much cd vs vinyl as new Rega P3 vs. Azure 640C. Then if the Rega turntable wins, I will have to buy that Apollo! |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 540 Registered: May-06 | Mike, The Rega P3 will win. Stu pretty much expressed how I feel about listening to vinyl and CDs. My CD player is phenomenal but the edge goes to my TT. I don't need 180 gram to get a better vinyl sound than CD sound. It doesn't matter if the CD is "remastered". Raise the quality on both, the vinyl sounds richer to me. Raise the quality of the CD only, the vinyl still sounds better to me. If I don't enjoy something on vinyl, there isn't a medium in existence that I have heard where I would like the sound of it. Do not misunderstand, I still thoroughly enjoy the sound of my CD player as I have a lot of media which I only have on CD. To me, not to clearly understand the difference would mean an ear that doesn't pick up the nuances or an inadequate set up. Which means it is inconceivable to me that anyone could actually like a CD sound over a vinyl sound. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5095 Registered: Feb-05 | Agreed! |
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Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 38 Registered: Jul-07 | Well Michael, you are certainly entitled to your preference. But there are certain facts regarding the respective media that can not be ignored. I love vinyl, but I have yet to hear one that captures the dynamic range of the comparable CD. Some of us were raised on vinyl and are accustomed to the "quirks" of the medium. Very difficult for anyone to fully escape his/her background. I can remember listening to Anita Baker's "Rapture" LP for hours on end, taking in every nuance. This is a decent recording and I have an outstanding turntable, tone arm and cartridge. But when I purchased the CD and put it on, I was absolutely blown away by the "presence" and details of the recording. On the other hand, the differences between the LP and CD recordings of Linda Ronstadt performing with the Nelson Riddle orchestra are much more subtle. I actually prefer the LP recording of certain tracks but the CD recording on others. One or the other sounds more "real" to me. Sometimes we have to move beyond our prejudices and analyze the cold hard facts. I find it difficult to believe that you could actually subscribe to the proposition, "it is inconceivable to me that anyone could actually like a CD sound over a vinyl sound." Extremes on either end of the spectrum preclude thoughtful analysis. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 533 Registered: Jan-05 | Is this something else that I feel I want to try out. I've been avoiding cd's for a long time because of their cost. I think it is. I hope that vinyls become the norm again if they're that good. I'm going to get researching. Budget TT ideas anybody? |
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Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 39 Registered: Jul-07 | JJ, you're right about the cost of CD's. What a rip-off. The manufacturing cost is dirt cheap but we consumers have seen little, if any, reduction in price over the years. I wonder though, if vinyl would ultimately be any cheaper. I could be wrong, but I would be surprised at a significant resurgence in vinyl production. Major industry retooling would be required. Just don't think today's digital crowd would be interested in bulky turntables, cartridges and the like. We are living in a world of convenience and portability. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2268 Registered: Sep-04 | Dennis, In the UK we have seen significant reductions in CD prices. We used to pay (on average) DOUBLE the US price. Nowadays, we pay almost the same as our friends in the US! As vinyl versus CD, I've heard too many bad implementations of both to know whether one medium is really better than the other, and I've been lucky enough to hear superb implementations of both. In theory CD should win hands down. It doesn't compress data towards the disc's centre (unlike vinyl), it has perfect pitch stability, it has 96db dynamic range against vinyl's theoretical 83 - 86db, pivoted tonearms all trace the groove with some degree of error (between 0 and 2 degrees across the record). It should be a walkover and yet it's not which is remarkable. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1970 Registered: May-05 | "We are living in a world of convenience and portability." My thoughts exactly. I'm not saying whether vinyl is better or worse than CD, but the better sound/picture quality format hardly ever wins out. The most convenient one always does. People argue about DVD-A, SACD, HDCD, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, and so one. The truth is, whichever is most readily available due to lables/studios, is cheapest, recordable, and doesn't have too many quirks will win out. Does anyone think cassette tapes sounded better than vinyl? Cassettes didn't exactly replace vinyl because they sounded better. |
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Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 41 Registered: Jul-07 | Frank, truer words were never spoken. Exactly what I meant when I said we have to accept certain facts about the theoretical superiority of the CD medium. Like you, I am constantly amazed that the theory sometimes loses when it is put into practice. Makes life very interesting. |
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Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 45 Registered: Jul-07 | Stu, you raise an interesting point regarding cassettes. Unfortunately, I can't really respond to it because before the advent of CD, what I did was buy premium blank cassettes and record my vinyl LPs onto them frequently employing Dolby B or C. Anecdotally, I was frequently told by friends who borrowed my tapes or for whom I made them, that my tapes sounded better than those purchsed from the stores. I'm not sure I understand the reasons for these conclusions. I always used top notch cassette recorders that allowed me to manually set the bias according to the tape formulation. But I'm not sure how an LP recording onto cassette could sound better than the source used to mass produce the commercial tapes. |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 53 Registered: Jul-07 | I also made many cassettes on a good Nakamichi for the same reason CDs are popular. Small, easy to move around and can play in the car, and you don't have to get up to flip it over when you have a bed or sofa attatched to your back. I am dying moving my LP collection again. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 543 Registered: May-06 | DMW, Frank, Stu, JJ, and Art, I have not argument with any of you on this as all of you have brought insightful opinions to this topic. Let me try this another way. I love the sound of tube amplifiers on non-amplified music. Solid state has an edginess / sharpness (use your own words here) which works well with amplified music but to me can become fatiguing. I own a tube pre-amp and a solid state amp as I listen to classic rock more than anything else. I grew up listening on a few turntables with the dime, penny, nickel taped to the tone-arm as my needle and records wore out. Before that, my grandfather had a tube set up which he played records on all the time. I understand that it is difficult to believe that proposition when I state "Which means it is inconceivable to me that anyone could actually like a CD sound over a vinyl sound.", but it is inconceivable to me. Like it is inconceivable to some folks that I could eat raw fish. However I digress, my set up sort of straddles the digital and analog arena and it works for me. If I listened to acoustic music primarily I would have a tube set up. Vocals are not natural sounding to me on most media with a solid state set up so I have my tube pre-amp to help me with that among other nuances. As I stated above I have a number of CDs which I thoroughly enjoy listening to and whenever I do modifications on my system 90% of what I listen to for feedback as to what I did is through CD. Why? Maybe for some of the things those of you who prefer CDs value, I get precise feedback, a more critical playback, and it's easier to work with. But when I am done with that I go back to spinning more vinyl than CDs because that is how I learned to enjoy my music. |
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Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 50 Registered: Jul-07 | Michael, I respect your opinion and preference except for the less than open-minded assertion referenced earlier. Inconceivable is a strong word, especially in the context of audio gear. It suggests your bias is so inflexible that you can not even imagine others who disagree with you. If that's the way you want to live your life, more power to you. On to another subject: have you guys heard about a new digital technology that reads the grooves from vinyl LP's and records it onto disc? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7967 Registered: Dec-04 | Wiley, you might want to know that I listened to MW's Saturn with him on a demo. Mike is a particularly acute listener, with a meticulously maintained system, and a keen love of music, old and new, and as a musician, you might not want to question his observations. Yes, we all listen differently, but Mike has the ear of an instrument tuner. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7968 Registered: Dec-04 | And a schlong like a bull. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 340 Registered: Dec-06 | And this may have evolved into one of the strangest turn of events(even for Jones) that I have seen in a while. Do continue, lemme grab a beer. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7970 Registered: Dec-04 | stryvn, I'll call |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7971 Registered: Dec-04 | you ain't home. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2273 Registered: Sep-04 | Mike, My point was that with all the theoretical advantages of CD, I find it remarkable that what is essentially rubber band technology can not only take the fight to CD but beat it generally speaking. In my view, price for price, once you get past the absolute bargain basement price range (below $1000) CD doesn't hold a candle to vinyl until it gets expensive (say, around $10,000) when the two media are more different than better or worse. That's my view anyway. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 52 Registered: Jul-07 | Nuck, I trust your opinion about like your mentor Vigne's. Doesn't matter if Mike has a golden ear, his proposition is still extreme. There are audiophiles who would disagree with his general conclusions. He is not the ultimate arbiter of this issue. Anyone who believes that in this context his opinion is the only one worth consideration has problems that extend beyond this thread. You should already know that, though. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1425 Registered: Nov-05 | Nuck, what were you and Mike up to - besides listening to a Saturn demo?  Oh and Mike, whatever you find inconceivable is your opinion, but Wiley doesn't think you're entitled to it. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7988 Registered: Dec-04 | MR, good somebody caught that. Wiley, then you could be an unforgiveable, unpronouncable epithet of a sloth. If you have anything, and I mean anything to add to the forum, beit musically, review -wise or anything to contrbute at all, please drop your antagonistic, arbitrarily acidic comments and contribute. The constant bickering has exposed a few useful comments around here, and I have responded in kind. If you can drop your stalking of Vigne for 30 seconds and contribute a little, this might be something useful to the lads. Just a thought. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 546 Registered: May-06 | Thanks M.R. I have been waiting to get home to reply but you pretty much stated it. Wiley, you are like two different people. For a while you can communicate in a useful way, then for no reason and without prompting you go off in left field or wherever it is you go to. Did I ever state that my opinion is law? It is my law, means something to me. Did I ever tell you that you had to abide by my opinion, much less everyone else? Then why do you appear threatened by my opinion? IF you read all that I posted you will see where I state that some folks find it inconceivable that I eat raw fish. I still eat it and I still associate with those folks as it is only differing opinions. There are some things folks do behind closed doors that I may find inconceivable and there may be things I do behind closed doors that others may find inconceivable. Doesn't mean anybody should stop what they do privately (lawfully). Read Frank's post above. That is how one contributes to the discussion. For the record I have heard a $9,000 CD player which my TT sounds better than. I have not heard a $10,000 CD player. That actually means there are multiple truths in this as a $10,000 and up CD player may trump a TT but since I never heard one it is still inconceivable to me. Once I hear that my paradigm may shift. Until then it is still MY paradigm. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 547 Registered: May-06 | M.R. We - Chatted up a barmaid I got a thrashing on the pool table (revenge is sweet, 9 ft. tables next time) Got to visit the proprietor of the audio emporium's private stock of LPs kept in the basement floor below the shop. Oohed and aahed over a sundry of products this dealer has in his shop. Drank scotch and beer. Exchanged cash for used products. Drank more beer. Watched a demolition expert with a tyrannosaurus-like machine just eat up a motel. Had one hell of a time for about 24 hours. Doing it again soon. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1426 Registered: Nov-05 | Mike, so this is what happens when a couple of old dogs get together. [grin] Watched a demolition expert with a tyrannosaurus-like machine just eat up a motel. Shouldn't have had more beer! [double grin] But from what Nuck said earlier, I think you left something out. [triple grin] |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 59 Registered: Jul-07 | Eat raw fish? eeeeeooooow! Inconcievable! Youre so crazy ;) As for my experience with a better cd player. I got a used Naim and put it in place of a Cambridge. It was as though a curtain was lifted from the sound. It just seemed to much more clear and open. Still I got tired of fooling with cds that wouldn't play and trying to center the weight so I got a new Azure 640C which is ok but i swear the Naim seemed so much more clear. |
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Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 53 Registered: Jul-07 | I acknowledged it was your opinion early on. All opinions are not created equal. If you can not conceive of people disagreeing with your listening preferences you and your opinion are pretty dumb. Now on to another thread. This one has outlived its usefulness. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 549 Registered: May-06 | Wiley, what language do you read in?????? Good luck to the folks on whatever other thread you will be bringing your contamination to. No wonder you've been banned in the past. Frank, can you somewhat see to how Jan and others may have gotten to where they our with this guy? Sorry for this interruption, now back to our regularly scheduled programming... |
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