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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1135 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm on the verge of opening a restaurant, and need to start to think about audio. I would like to undertake this project myself, but am really uncertain as to where to start? ~1500 sq/ft dinning room 12' high drop celling Wood floor Any suggestions would be most helpful. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 517 Registered: Jan-05 | As I'll always recommend based on there choice of colours, their good size, great sound and high sensitivity. B&W LM1. Whats the budget Molloy? What kind of restaurant are you opening? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1136 Registered: Oct-04 | Pizza restaurant, Iganzio's. I'm thinking the LM1's are not quite right. It'll be a 70v set-up (or so I think, I know little to nothing about 70v), and I'm not sure about speakers, in-wall or patio style. I'm leaning thinking something like this 8" three-way in-wall from Parts Express http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-286&CFID=2026674&CF TOKEN=71720671 might do the trick. As I understand each speaker will require a transformer, like this http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-039&CFID=2026674&CF TOKEN=71720671 . I like the looks of this Crown amp http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=245-490 . Just need to figure out how many speakers I'll need, it'll be 6-8, I think? |
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Bronze Member Username: Nickelbut10Canada Post Number: 43 Registered: Jun-07 | I think the Crown Amp is a good choice for a restaurant atmosphere. They are rugged and can be abused. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10789 Registered: May-04 | . I can't imagine why you would mess with a 70 Volt system in a space that small with three pairs of speakers. I would opt for a speaker selector switch box with autoformers somewhere in the line, either at the switchbox or using individual volume controls. The individual vc's would be my first choice. You'll have the flexibility to raise and lower the level in certain areas with such an arrangement. Otherwise, with a 70 Volt system you usually wire everything to be at the same level unless you have individual amplification channels that can be attentuated. I assume this is just for background sound. (A 70 Volt system would suggest that at least.) If so, and the volume level will always be at background levels, you shouldn't even require the autoformers other than for a sense of security. A good receiver based system will drive three or four pairs of speakers wired in series (without a switchbox) at background levels. If the restaraunt is busy, no one (other than you and the loan officer at the bank) will notice or care that you spent $250 a pair for in wall speakers. . |
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Silver Member Username: ChicomoralessxmDutch islesCaribbean Post Number: 152 Registered: Feb-07 | Just a suggustion take a look at the QSC ISA300TI. Pretty solid amp. takes some pretty rough treatment we are using one I got for our sound reinforcement system. No complaints. Or is you can see if you can find a TOA |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1137 Registered: Oct-04 | I am in no way committed to the 70v set-up, it was suggested by a Parts Express rep, and sounded like a reasonable option. These two-way ceiling speakers are a slightly more economical option http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-294 , the aforementioned in-wall speakers were $140/pr., but I won't lose sleep over the difference in $$$. 6-8 speakers might not be overkill given the configuration, 2-4 for the dining room, 2 for the bar area, and 2 for the kitchen/office. Jan, any advice on wiring speakers in series, (I've never done this)? Does this stress the amp? Any receiver recommendations? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7893 Registered: Dec-04 | Chris, the kitchen/office will have a different system, from parts you have now. 2 for the bar. 2 for the dining room, just background music. The first time a client asks for the music to be turned down, it will be apparant. The cleaning staff(you and whomever) might turn it up, not likely for dinner guests. So 4 speakers and a receiver or integrated is lots. Now to place them, so as to have an even level around the room. I know where I am eating next time in NY! Even if I cab to Brooklyn. 2 sets of 4 ohm speakers in series is an 8 ohm load, as well. Amp + into speaker 1 plus, speaker 1 - into speaker 2 plus, speaker 2 - back to amp -. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10791 Registered: May-04 | . " ... 2-4 for the dining room, 2 for the bar area, and 2 for the kitchen/office." Then these should all be on volume controls. I assume the "office" and the bar area are not the same amount of space as the dining area so you will want some ability to raise and lower the volume in the various locations. I would use a speaker selector with vc's depending on the layout of the system and the areas you want to cover. I'm not in favor of letting customers or other unauthorized hands have access to the vc's. This would place the system controls in an area where only necessary people can do anything to affect the volume. With eight 8 Ohm speakers you don't require autoformers. They would be for security only. A decent switch box with a load resistor type "protection" circuit should suffice for background levels. If you are going to party with this system, buy the autofomers, either as vc's or within the switch box. If you don't require a tuner, you might consider an integrated though I tend to go with a receiver for one reason. If you have a shop that offers an extended warranty where the component doesn't have to go into a service department but rather they hand you a new unit should yours fail, buy that. Otherwise, any of the usual suspects that you would buy to drive a difficult load will work for your needs here. If you want to know about series connections, put "series/parallel connection" in a search engine. Speaker switch boxes are wired in parallel. |
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New member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 7 Registered: Jul-07 | Unless you are seeking an audiophile atmosphere, go cheap. How many folks are really going to seriously listen in that environment? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7915 Registered: Dec-04 | Correct, DMW. Chris is of a musical mind, most clients will not care. A few might, but will be dining and conversing at any rate. CM, the musical selection will be far more important than the quality of delivery. Make it reasonable with gear, the clients will hear the music without listening to it. |
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New member Username: PolhubPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-07 | JBL Control 26CT speakers in the ceiling probably 6 (tapped at 7.5 Watts) and a TOA A-706. Get a U01R module for the amp. Hook up a CD player and away you go. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7920 Registered: Dec-04 | With Sinatra and a little Count Basie. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1138 Registered: Oct-04 | Sure I can go with a $40 pair of Radio Shack ceiling speakers, but why the heck not spend a few more bucks for something a lot better. I'm not talking Paradigms here, I'm talking Parts Express, it won't break the bank. NOW HERE THIS: ...No Mafia Movie Music....No Mafia Movie Music...That is all... This will not be your typical NYC turist-trap pizza joint, that I can guarantee. |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 29 Registered: Jul-07 | There is a restaurant in Seattle that caught my ear. They had speakers recessed in the cieling like the lights and air and no matter where you were the music was the same. Perfect balance even to the toilet. Nothing worse than sitting next to the speakers, or air-con. As for customer appreciation, it would not matter to me because I like/need music where I work. Unfortunately us construction guys have to take portables. I use my Tivoli PAL radio. As for selection I know what I would play but that is a matter of taste. Something I like, but that is relaxing, non invasive. I am a jazz fan but even I find it annoying to have Coltrane or such horn playing when you are trying to eat and converse. I have years of practice playing such music that may seem like Musak to other, but is actually great. For me, Bill Evans, Gary Burton, Kenny Burrell and hundreds more. But NOT "smooth" jazz aka musak. No Kenny G! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7923 Registered: Dec-04 | Oooohhh! The Rat Pack! Or Molly Hatchett! Again, CM, the music selection will be more important than the speakers, so long as the music has some air. None in the mens room, please. Just the comics on a cork board in front of the stand-ups, with a marker on a chain. Damn, I missed my calling in life, eh? Maybe in ceiling jobs with directional tweeters? Alittle more adjustable, like from Angstrom. http://www.angstromloudspeakers.com/docs/products/suono/suono_showroom.htm |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1139 Registered: Oct-04 | I was leaning towards one of these Music Choice channels http://www.musicchoice.com/ , but this XM channel is more what I'm looking for http://www.xmradio.com/onxm/channelpage.xmc?ch=75 I know it's "the sounds of Starbucks" , but heck, I figure Starbucks has more time & money to research what people want to listen to than I do. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1140 Registered: Oct-04 | I haven't place the order yet, but I think I'm going to go with those Parts Express 2-way ceiling speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1141 Registered: Oct-04 | ...I just stumbled across these http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-296 , what'cha think? |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 39 Registered: Jul-07 | I was thinking of the multiple disc changers that I have used. Those 100 + CD players are common but I don't like them. First you don't want that many cd left at work. I have a friend with a bar/night club/restaurant and it is frankly a pain. I gave my mother an Integra 6 cd player because she would never deal with a single. I ended up liking it. Sound is adequate and it has a great fast random feature which mixes from all the albums and you don't even notice the lag nor do you hear it. Surprisingly smooth. It is better than it should be for the low cost. I would definately put one in as well as a good fm tuner for when you are to busy to deal w/cds. http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=CDC-3.4&class=CD&p=i |
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New member Username: PolhubPost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-07 | JBL Control 26CT's cost the same but come with the tile bridge (for installation in a drop ceiling) and the 70V transformer. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1146 Registered: Oct-04 | I've been looking at this JVC receiver with XM http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp=35638354 |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 722 Registered: Nov-06 | Chris, A restaurant I used to frequent used to use Klipsch speakers. I don't know if they still do, but they sounded great for a restaurant setting, and can be purchased as a sub-sat system. The system gives a choice of in-ceiling or wall mounted subwoofer systems. http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/cms-4-1.aspx |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 723 Registered: Nov-06 | and, for the in walls and in ceilings, HTD Audio will beat Parts Express pricing on the models they sell. The multi-purpose speakers are priced between $59 and $99 per pair, while the high def speakers are $119 to $159 respectively. Take a look :-) http://www.htd.com/in-wall-ceiling-speakers They state that the multi purpose is more for background listening and the high def is just that: for critical usage. |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 724 Registered: Nov-06 | a full description of the construction and features of the speakers is given within the various sections within. enjoy :-) |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1147 Registered: Oct-04 | Gavin, Thanks, I hadn't considered HTD. They build VERY nice stuff. I like the looks of their new Level-Three. I've listen to what some of you have said, and I'm thinking something like these might suffice http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-402 |
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Gold Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth ... Post Number: 4003 Registered: May-05 | Ambience sound is the aim when people come to relax over a meal not be drowned out by loudness only ambiance. JBL seems popular the little JBL Control 1 monitors are easy to install and with a little support by a few JBL subs in discrete parts of the restaurant for parties. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7978 Registered: Dec-04 | How about Orb audio? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1160 Registered: Oct-04 | Nah, they're too Orbish. I think the Dayton/JVC set-up will suffice. Thanks guys. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7990 Registered: Dec-04 | WTF is Orbish?! Orbison? The Orbs of the eye(genesis)? So long as my linguine is dente, I am OK with it. |
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Bronze Member Username: Nickelbut10Canada Post Number: 68 Registered: Jun-07 | Orb audio would have been SHHWEET!! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1161 Registered: Oct-04 | I don't know, I'm sure they sound good, but they're just too round, you know? They make me want to light some candles & get my back waxed. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10855 Registered: May-04 | . You need your back waxed?! EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1162 Registered: Oct-04 | Now you said need, I said want. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8007 Registered: Dec-04 | ouch |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 728 Registered: Nov-06 | someone gouge my eyes |