I know that accepted wisdom holds metal/steel speaker stands to get better sound out of monitors. However, I just got Focus 140's a week ago and for the first 6 days the speakers were on wooden kitchen chairs (and two inches of soft cover books for added height)that have 6 vertical round slats in the back. The speakers sounded really good on the chairs; musical, full bodied without sounding boomy, very detailed and a very nice sound stage. But of course I followed conventional wisdom and bought metal stands (Sanus BF 24"). I put the stands together, put the speakers on them in virtually the same place they had been on the chairs. Immediately the sound was not as musical and coherent. The instruments could be distinguished, but they did not at the same time form a coherent group resulting in something greater than the parts. Even worse I was fatigued within 30 minutes. Over the first 6 days of owning the 140's I listened for an average of 2 hours a night without getting fatigued when the speakers were on the chairs.
Has anyone else experienced something similar with 140's or another brand/model of speaker? Did you just go with wooden stands and did this satisfy you?
Hi Todd. The last session I had with the 140's, they were on metal stands, of a make I didn't look at. Tubular jobs, placing the tweet at about 28", matching the chair. The dealer had them filled with playsand, almost full. They likely weighed about 12 kilo apiece. He said that they always put the 140's on mass loaded stands, otherwise they could get a bit 'hollow'. If your chairs are not contoured, ie: flat surface, for the speaks, you may have had them well coupled to the mass. Perhaps the Dyn's are not so well coupled now? Are the speaks blu-tacked in place on the stands now?
HI Nuck The chairs are slightly contoured. However I have two inches of soft cover books under each speaker for added height, so perhaps that is coupling them to the chairs. The stands are only about 4.5 kgs, so hopefully adding sand or shot will help. But it is going to have to make a significant difference. The chairs are not much, if any more heavy than the stands, so I am a little skeptical that adding mass will make a big difference. Nevertheless I'll try it. Are there any differences in sonic properties in using sand versus lead shot? Hopefully bluetacking will help too. Right now there are small rubberized square pads in each of the four corners of the top plates. Thanks for the info, and alleviating my anxiety over this a bit.
Todd, those fantastic speakers will perk up just right with a loaded base. Shot or sand, your choice(if you live in Virginia the shot is cheaper), but the mass base is critical for these speaks. The blu-tack(or equivelent) is a nice sturdy mount for them, and unobtrusive. If the adhesive is not offering enough coupling(after the stands) then levelling the base ans using points is another option. Those 140's cannot sound 'bad' IMHO, just waiting for you to dial them in a bit.
My source is a Rega Planet (not sure if it is a 2000 or later model; it has the CD loader in the center of the chasis). Pre amp is a Rogue Audio Magnum 66, and the amp is a Parasound Halo A23. I am using PS Audio Power Punch power cords on the Rega and Parasound. Interconnects are Adioquest Diamondbacks and cables are older Audioquest - not sure of the model - which are four strand and thick.
Todd, you seem well set. The mass of the stands should bring out the mid-bass(around 75) that I heard from the 140's. I really stood in awe of them, with a Cary tube amp and a Cary cdp. The speaks are capable of anything, I think.
If your planet looks like the current Apollo and Saturn, its a Planet 2000. The Planet 2000 is the last version they made before the Apollo. If it looks like a BBQ grill or clamshell, its an original Planet.
As far as the stands go, what Nuck says makes sense. As far as I know, there's no sonic difference between shot or sand. Mass is mass.
Did you buy the speakers from a Dynaudio dealer? If so, what do they suggest? If you didn't, do you have a dealer near by? Ask them what they think. I'm sure they'll be happy to sell you an appropriate stand.
As far as conventional wisdom - metal vs wood stands - the only conventional wisdom in this instance is trying a bunch of different things and seeing which sounds best. Some speakers like a very heavy massive stand. Others like a lightweight ridgid stand. A Dynaudio dealer will know what works best, having hopefully tried a lot of different things.
Thanks for the feedback. I filled the stand columns with sand and now the speaker sound fantastic. What a relief. I have some Blu Tack on order and imagine that will enhance the sound quality even more.
My Planet looks like the current Apollo, except for the method of securing the CD. Mine has the magnetic securing device as opposed to the Apollo's click in type of device.
I bought the 140's from an authorized dealer, but it was the middle of the night when I got the stands assembled and under the speakers. I was really disappointed and wanted some immediate feedback; what can I say I am a product of my culture and impatient. I am not sure the shop would have been able to give me any more info than I got here. The shop has not sold a lot of Dynaudios and their monitor demos are sitting on top of floorstanders. So I don't think they have experimented much.
Now that I have heard a drastic improvment in sound quality from mass loading the stands, I think I'll keep an eye out for a heavier pair of stands on the used market.
We're all impatient. That's nothing new. Keep in mind that speakers need to be broken in. People will argue about other things breaking or burning in, but no one (I hope) agrues it regarding speakers. Anything with moving parts needs to loosen up.
In your situation, I'd give them a good 100 hours or so of use before I started playing with different things. Once the speaker's sound is consistant, then revisit stands. Same for cables, placement, and so on.
Here is an update on my experience with the 140s. Since filling the stands with sand I have also blue tacked them to the stands. There was definitely some, though not a huge improvement from adding the blu tack. There is probably not much improvement to be had with more break-in since these were dealer demos and were pretty well broken in when I got them. If they did improve more I might be in trouble cause I would never get out of my listening chair.
After living with the 140s for two weeks now, I am so impressed with the amount of bass that these stand mounts deliver. I like the bass from these little guys more than my former Vandy 2CEs. Of course I was powering the Vandys with a 60 watt tube amp and am powering the 140s with a Halo A23.
The 140s have it over the Vandys in imaging in spades. (Again the SS amp makes a diff too.) The Vandy-tube combo had a slightly sweeter midrange. Actually I think there is a half octave difference in the mids between the two combos with the A23-140s combo having the higher sound (if that makes sense).
The 140s excel over the Vandys at making me feel like I am at a live show with more recordings than the Vandys ever did.
The two sets of speakers are equal in one very important area, toe tapping enjoyment. Overall I am extremely pleased that I made this purchase. Now I think the A23 is the weak link in my system (source is a Rega Planet 2000 and Preamp is Rogue Audio Magnum 66), so I am going to look at either upgrading the amp or going with a an integrated. Again thanks for the great input I have received from you prolific contributors. How do you find the time?
Todd, it's 6.50 here, and yes I have time. I have no time to arrange the 3 sets of speakers downstairs, no time to move the room from short and shallow to the long return run(into the studio) and little time to move my kid out this weekend. How are you?
Nuck, I haven't tried the Apollo at home but got to listen to it extensively at the shop with an amp by the same manufacturer as I have and the Halo A23 which I have and the same 140s I subsequently bought. About the only real difference was the cables, and they did not have anything that looked any more high end than my audioquest cables and interconnects. I agree with you completely about the Apollo smokin' the 2000. I really want to get into an integrated and am torn. I can't do both the integrated and the Apollo now and I am having a hard time making a decision about which way to go. I guess I'll sell a kidney.
I am confused. I read on the Sanus site that the Sanus BF24 has an MDF centre column, which does not seem to tally with your experience.
Traditionally, Dyns have been used with fully welded steel supports that have been mass loaded with sand (comes as part of the stand) and have resin compound in the base and top plates to control vibration reflection. The welded approach means the stands are costly to transport and their weight doesn't help either in this respect.
Other materials can work well too, but you can't adopt the welded approach here which implies you have to glue or screw together the item. This leads to separate interfaces within the stand which can cause internal reflections unless they're managed with absorbent materials somehow. I've not seen this done anywhere to be honest, although I know of one or two stands made of natural materials which seem to work with their respective speakers (B&W and Sonus Faber come to mind here). So it's not cut and dried that stell has to be best. In fact there's an argument that since steel is magnetic it's actually not the right material to use so close to these very large magnets in speakers! However, MDF, or wood is very close to the speaker's own material and this can cause as many problems as it solves. The fact is that there is very little experience with non-metallic stands generally, let alone in particular with Dynaudios.
We do know that 140s sink a lot of energy into the stand and so the stand needs to be able to absorb and dissipate this energy successfully in order for the speaker to sound clean. However, you don't want to overdo it since this can actually deaden the sound - too clean! I'm afraid that trial and error is the only way forward since I have no experience with your stands at all.