Need Power...Lots of it
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 71 Registered: Jan-07 | I need to power the sound for my pool area and the rest of the house. I have 2 underwater 4-ohm subwoofers which can take 1000w RMS each and 8 8-ohm underwater speakers which can take 300w RMS each. We've had them there ever since we got the pool, but we never have gotten an amplifier to power them. The subwoofers are 8 ohms and the speakers are 8 as well. Above ground, there are 3 outdoor 1000w "rock" subwoofers which each have two dual 8-ohm voice coil drivers and 12 300w RMS 4-ohm Patio Speakers are being hung around the pool. In the house, that's a different story. In the kitchen, we have 4 4-ohm 200w RMS In-Ceilings and a 1000w RMS 4-ohm in-ceiling subwoofer. Each of the three bedrooms has 4 300w RMS 4-ohm in-walls and 2 1000w subwoofers. In each of 3 bathrooms are 2 4-ohm 200w RMS in-ceilings. The living room contains 6 300w 4-ohm in-walls and 2 1000w dual 4-ohm voice coil subwoofers. In the recreation room we have 8 300w 4-ohm In-Walls and 4 of the same subwoofers in the rest of the house (1000w etc.). To cover the rest of the open areas of the house we have 10 more 200w In-Ceilings and 5 more of the 1000w subs. All the In-walls are bi-amp capable, but I don't know if I really need that since it would add so much to the cost. To sum up the power I need, it's 2000w subwoofer power for underwater pool, a 1200w right channel and 1200w left channel total underwater. For the outside patio, 3000w subwoofer and 3600w totalled L/R. We need 400w for the right channel, 400w for the left, and 1000w for subwoofer in the kitchen. 600w R, 600w L, and 2000w subwoofer for each bedroom needed. 600w L, 600w R for the bathrooms. 900w L, 900w R, 2000w subs for living room. 1200w L, 1200w R, 4000w subs in recreation room. 1000w left, 1000w right, 5000w for rest of the house. The amps are going into a huge cabinet that is hooked to the main unit in the kitchen. Everything is pre-wired with large in-wall wiring and there are connections for power, speakers, and to the main unit which is connected to all the sources and computers. I'm having a party in 2 weeks so I will expect that they'll be turning it up pretty loud and I don't want little puny amps that'll clip and deliver distortion and damage my speakers...I want the good stuff. What are your recommendations? Each room and the pool gets a control which leads to the main unit. I've tried to explain it thoroughly. I need high-fidelity amps because the sources are from the HT and they're high fidelity as well as other sources in the main unit itself. Amps with XLR inputs are preferable. I'm going to do some research now. |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2400dB could probably d..., SouthWest Mi... Too Many DBs... Post Number: 1143 Registered: Dec-06 | You could use these Behringer amps for the subs...1 for underwater, 2 for patio, 1 for kitchen, 3 for bedrooms, 1 for living room, 2 for the recreation room, and 2 for the rest of the house. Dude that's almost 30,000 watts...for only $6k! You better make sure you have a dedicated electrical panel... http://www.behringer.com/EP2500/index.cfm?lang=ENG For the speakers, I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you want nicer amps for the speakers? You could use less powerful amps that cost less and bi-amp... |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 72 Registered: Jan-07 | That amplifier looks just right for what I need, however after looking deeper into the specs that the 2400w is at 1khz and it's only around 1800w with the 20hz-20khz specification. Still, 900w on a 1000w subwoofer really isn't going to make that much of a difference. Everything else looks great with that amplifier. The pass-through looks useful. I need to find a good amplifier for the speakers now. I don't know if I trust that amplifier. I think I saw some amplifiers that I liked. I'm going to try and find that. Recommendations welcome. |
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Bronze Member Username: ElevenPittsburgh, PA USA Post Number: 65 Registered: Nov-06 | Buy a new house? Seriously though, what about something like this: http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/itech.htm |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 73 Registered: Jan-07 | I like that...it looks niiice. I could use a 6000 in mono to power the outdoor subs and the 8000 in stereo to power the speakers. The kitchen could take 2 4000s and the bathrooms could take a 4000. I could give each bedroom 2 4000s. A 4000 and 6000 for living room. 6000 and 8000 for recreation room. 4000 and 8000 for rest of house. Let's see that's 82000 watts. If I installed that I could have all matching amps which could all link together and control each other. If people at the party want to rock out they can. Is that a good choice and if so I'm going to order. It'd be funning opening that cabinet door and having my neighbor or friend going "Holy S#$%@!" everytime they see basically 80kw of power. The amps look to have plenty of flexibility so that I could configure it to power only the speakers I want and at certain levels using a computer as the mastermind. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5847 Registered: Dec-04 | Go for it. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 74 Registered: Jan-07 | Indeed I will Nuck, indeed I will. I might even step up to 8000s from 6000s and 6000s from 4000s maybe even all 8000s in case I get more speakers to power in the future. I'll have to make sure the WAF is in route first though. Gotta wait a couple hours to order. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 75 Registered: Jan-07 | I'm not sure quite how loud things are going to get, but I can try and estimate. The underwater speakers are 160dB sensitivity and the subwoofer is 170dB. I think it has to do with their transducer and how it works. I'm sure I won't need to worry about getting enough underwater volume. The outdoor subwoofers are 94dB sensitivity and the patio speakers are 90dB. Inside, all in-walls are 92dB and all in-ceilings are 92dB also. Each subwoofer is 89dB. Do you think it'll get loud enough and have enough "WHOMP WHOMP" for the party? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9762 Registered: May-04 | . I know I've said many times that it doesn't really matter; but, has anyone ever heard of maximum input wattage for a speaker? On the other hand this thread is so stupid; who cares? |
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Bronze Member Username: ElevenPittsburgh, PA USA Post Number: 67 Registered: Nov-06 | LOL! LOL again, just re-reading. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5848 Registered: Dec-04 | Yeah, but 1.21 Jigawatts! Diversions. |
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Bronze Member Username: ElevenPittsburgh, PA USA Post Number: 68 Registered: Nov-06 | Tell it like it is. |
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Silver Member Username: GamerdudeOntario Canada Post Number: 395 Registered: Apr-06 | Bryston |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 76 Registered: Jan-07 | I didn't order yet anyway. I understand your meaning Jan. Seriously, what are your suggestions to power these? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9771 Registered: May-04 | . If you want volume, you don't buy power. You buy efficient speakers. Every time you double the watts, all things being equal, you only gain an average of 3dB moer volume. So, you gain 3dB going from 50 watts to 100 watts. You also only gain 3 dB when you go from 500 to 1,000 or 5,000 to 10,000 watts. The price of volume when you are buying watts gets very steep very fast. On the other hand, buy a speaker with 96 to 100dB output with one watt input and you are way ahead of the game. Compare two speakers; one with a sensitivity of 88dB (average for many home speakers) and another speaker with an efficiency of 100dB and compare the amount of power you will require to get each to a very loud level, say 106dB. 88dB with one watt, double the power to two watts and you are at 91, double to four and you're at 94, double again to get to 97, sixteen watts will get you to 100, 32 will get 103 and 64 watts will manage the magic 106dB. 106dB is fairly loud on peaks. Take the speaker that begins at 100dB and the second watt gets you to 103 and the fourth watt breaks the bank at 106dB. So, to get very loud peaks of music cleanly reproduced, you need 64 watts with the less efficient speaker and four watts with the more efficient speaker. This should tell you a bit about how much power you really require in a typical home system and how to go about getting that volume wisely. Next question? . |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 77 Registered: Jan-07 | Ok, I know you were answering the earlier question, but since you said next question... I'm looking to build a powerful (efficient if possible) 2-channel speaker system which I can add to the recreation room which I can sit on the sofa and listen to music softly...or dance around with it as loud as it goes, depending on mood. I've seen tri-amping and bi-amping and using lots of drivers etc. It's a pretty large room (42x30x12), but I have a lot of space to fit this/these cabinet(s). Can you show me where I can find drivers and information on this? Thank YOU  |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2400dB could probably d..., SouthWest Mi... Too Many DBs... Post Number: 1154 Registered: Dec-06 | Gee you've got lots of choices. So you want it to be able to get loud, but sound good at all levels I'm assuming. I also assume you can provide the power needed. Well, you can build a large cabinet and put a bunch of good drivers in it based on their specs (T/S Parameters?) and power each section individually. I'd use active crossovers before the signal gets to the amps if you want it to be easy. I'll get more in the other room...mom's bugging for the computer... |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 78 Registered: Jan-07 | How would this do if I used one of these in each one so that I wouldn't need to use multiple ones to reach needed SPL? http://www.speakercity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SC&Prod uct_Code=SD990N&Category_Code=PA-HF I think that would do fine, as long as I find other drivers to match it well. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 79 Registered: Jan-07 | I could use 6 of these in some sort of configuration to help provide headroom and correct "imaging." Hmm the woofer which'll cover 80hz-500hz upper bass, what to do. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 80 Registered: Jan-07 | Sorry, the midwoofer link here: I must remind these are just pre-stages. I'm getting a feel for what I need (though I might end up with those) . Did you notice The Era of Tera Intel Ad??? 80 cores on one chip! I sense the future is going to have some pretty fast computers... |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2400dB could probably d..., SouthWest Mi... Too Many DBs... Post Number: 1158 Registered: Dec-06 | Well, IMO you should make sure that if you're using all those drivers for 80hz+ that you don't skimp out in the subwoofer section of the speakers. I'm sure with those sensitivities you're going to not have to worry about maximum volume or headroom very much, unless you skimp! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9774 Registered: May-04 | . Are you trying to design your own speakers? Have you ever done such a project before? |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 81 Registered: Jan-07 | I made one once, but I only used two 8" subwoofer drivers and a tweeter in a small enclosure, which is now on the computer. Doesn't sound bad, but doesn't sound good. IOW, I have never done quite such a project before, but I'll tell you what I was thinking. I was thinking to make a large pair of triangle shaped speakers which could sound good while being able to cover the full audible range (or more) at high-volume levels. From what I've chosen, I'm pretty sure, but not too sure. If I design it, I can take it to a local woodworking place and have pieces of wood sawed off just like they're supposed to be. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5856 Registered: Dec-04 | Go for it! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9780 Registered: May-04 | . S.D. - What's the username mean? |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 82 Registered: Jan-07 | It's proving hard to find good subwoofer drivers. After a bunch of searching I've narrowed it down to two brands. Fi or TC? For 4x the price I get the same Sensitivity, like 8x the power handling, and over twice the Xmax (76mm Peak-to-peak linear). The T/S Parameters all match much better as well. I'd say the 4x price since this is trying to do this within a smaller space...which is in stock so I better order it quickly! Quantity discount gets price down...man that's a good thing. To fit the triangle theme I'd say 9 would complete the bottom of the triangle well. Nuck, since you seem to be supporting what I've chosen, I've already cleared the space where this will eventually go. Once I pick amps I plan to order all the drivers and wood (Rosewood I expect). Well for amps It'll probably be a safe bet running 3 8000 I-techs to power the deep-bass since bass doesn't give much in return for high-end amplification as long as it's not from cheap amplification. For the low midbass, what would be a good ~2000w (total) choice? ~1000w for the low midrange? 150w for 2khz+? I'm sure I can get these to sound pretty good. I want to get done before the party! |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 83 Registered: Jan-07 | Oh Jan it's like a fan at one end of a tunnel or a pressurized tunnel. You know the pressure you feel on your ears from wind or high barometric pressure. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5857 Registered: Dec-04 | Shaftofair, I thought you might be a skydiver, that is a common description. I don't support any of it, you seem off-kilter and in need of a huge amount of education. Since I am unqualified to supply that, the next best thing is to say little. Band gear. |
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Bronze Member Username: DevelaraPost Number: 16 Registered: Dec-06 | inform us after u have installed ur system |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 84 Registered: Jan-07 | Nuck is there a search term I can use for band gear? Also, I've heard you can use some sort of device and attach it to large areas to use them as speakers. Do you know anything about this? |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 85 Registered: Jan-07 | I did some thinking and decided I'll try to build a smaller system for the den computer just to get a feel for what I'm really doing. I'll start looking. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5869 Registered: Dec-04 | Look long and hard. It is a journey. Yoda said it, not me. MMVWH, Many systems will you try. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 86 Registered: Jan-07 | Tweeter. http://www.speakercity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SC&Prod uct_Code=D2904-6000-00&Category_Code=SSTW |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5874 Registered: Dec-04 | Sam, between your OP for 80k watts and your last post, I think yo need an education. Maybe Andre can help. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShaftofairPost Number: 87 Registered: Jan-07 | I can do some google searching.  Btw you may not be reading my name right. It's pronounced Samm Duh-Neath. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4070 Registered: Feb-05 | God help us! |
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