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New member Username: AlderashPost Number: 6 Registered: Jun-06 | Hello, Generally speaking, is there really a big difference in sound quality between brands at a mid-level pricepoint? For example, I am looking for a 7.1 AV receiver to pair with my Onix Rocket speakers for movies and music and have put together a shortlist of units: Marantz SR7500 H/K AVR635 Outlaw 1070 Since I'm also focusing on pure music listening sometimes as well, does one of the above really stand out over the others -- maybe has a 'separates' quality to it? Is there a receiver that I didn't mention above that should be there? (I really wanted to add NAD to the list, but I keep hearing horror stories when it comes to reliability -- plus, the T773 is out of range.) I know you guys get these hypothetical 'which is better' threads all the time, but there must be some validity to getting knowledgeable feedback since I can't personally audition all these receivers for myself. Any specific recommendation for a mid-level 7.1 receiver for movies and music, or will most units at this price pretty much sound identical? Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1862 Registered: Sep-04 | Each unit will have its own voice. Each manufacturer has a different philosophy of design, uses different components, makes different compromises in the various parts of the unit you're considering. Consequently, each unit will sound different to the next. How much difference depends on the level of quality of each and what kind of compromises were made. If you listen to music a lot, or intend to, Arcam have just announced the new AVR280 which means that their outgoing AVR250 and AVR300 will be going cheap at the moment. Arcams don't enjoy the feature set of the competition, but when it comes to music, it's difficult to beat an Arcam for the money. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 304 Registered: Apr-06 | Any thoughts on Cambridge Audio's surround receivers Frank? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9665 Registered: May-04 | . Look at the spec sheets for the receivers you've mentioned. They all have flat frequency response from 20Hz to 20kHz, exceptionally low T.H.D. and more than enough power to drive most speakers to reasonable - or beyond - levels. However, as Frank states, they all choose different components to build their product and, to some extent, have differring philosophies regarding how to design a product. Will you hear a difference in quality between these manufactures' wares? Not if you listen only for the amount of bass or treble. If you listen with an ear that judges sound by nothing more than do all the frquencies seem represented, you probably won't notice much difference between components at any price. In that case, you should invest your money in better speakers where the differences are readily apparent. What qualities you listen for will determine what you cannot hear from various pieces of electronics. If you don't know it's supposed to be there, you might miss it when it appears. If your reference for what sounds good is your car stereo, then you probably should invest your money in speakers and not much of a receiver. If thump and volume are your criteria for what sounds good, then buy more efficient speakers and a good subwoofer and ignore the amplifier. If the performers you listen to have heavy post production done to their recordings, then you probably won't find much difference between components. If the last time you heard live music being performed you sat in the same seat as when you watched the basketball team play, then you should probably invest in speakers and not worry much about electronics. If you do not sit down to only listen to music at some point in time, i.e. you are always doing something else when the music plays, buy better speakers and ignore the receiver. If you are asking this question because the reviews you've read say receivers sound different but you can't hear it, you probably should buy better speakers and not worry much about the electronics. Any competent audio dealer can demonstrate their lines to the extent you can determine whether there will be a "difference" between electronics. Ignore the big box stores and visit an independent audio retailer with some of the music you prefer. Ask to hear a selection played on the best system the shop has set up and then on the least expensive system they display. If you hear little difference that cannot be attributed to the speakers, then ignore better electronics. Many of the members of this forum assume everyone is interested in imaging, soundstaging, pace, rhythm and timing, etc. If these qualities don't interest you or you don't understand their meaning, then you can either ask the shop for a demonstration or you can ignore electronics. Don't buy a product just because someone else thinks you should. You must know what qualities you seek before you can find them. You can be led to them but don't be misled. You must begin to hear the qualities you seek before you spend the money on more expensive electronics. Buying a "better" receiver only to find you don't hear an improvement puts you in a vast majority of receiver owners. Don't be concerned that you don't hear what others claim they can. It's your system and you should be happy. However, .... If you do ocassionally sit and only listen to music for the enjoyent of the performance and you have qualities you can state are important to you in the reproduction of music, then you should listen to better electronics. Do not use a review to pick your gear, listen and hear what you can. Choose, then go home and be happy. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/315174.html . |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9666 Registered: May-04 | . And, if you want "separates sound", whatever that is, buy separates. They are far more cost effective in the long run than buying a receiver that pretends to be something else. There are some very good receivers on the market but they are not separates. This is most especially true if you are beginning with a HT receiver. . |
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Silver Member Username: Divin11112000Michigan Post Number: 120 Registered: Dec-04 | Brad, As far as recievers are concerned don't get hung up on 7.1 sound. I don't believe that there are very many movies out there that even utilize the additional 2 channels. Sure it's nice to want to have the ability to expand, but if that's what your looking for, then why not look for 9.1? They are out there, but there isn't much sense in it. Personally I upgraded speakers first since I already had a pretty good pioneer reciever. I went from a mess of pioneer/advent/klh speakers to all Klipsch. Difference was amazing. I didn't feel that the reciever was pushing the speakers enough or had enough "reserve" power when all speakers were being driven so I went and bought a Rotel amp (keep in mind this is a 4yr journey). Difference, not as much as i thought. The highs seemed a little clearer, the lows a little deeper, the sound had something "different" about it. Maybe a little fuller is a decent description of the difference. We don't typically sit around and "critical" listen which is why i can't speak much about imaging, soundstaging, pace, rhythm and timing. Is there an improvement in those area's? Yes probably, have i spent the time to really figure out how big the difference is. No, i just "feel" the music a little differently now. The point being is that the biggest improvement I saw was in the speaker change, not in the addition of electronics. If your wanting to improve the sound of your current speakers then think about electronics. but don't get caught up in 7.1 |
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New member Username: AlderashPost Number: 7 Registered: Jun-06 | Jan, Thanks for your insightful response; you raised a lot of good points. My reasons for asking the question are due to price, performance, and availability. First off, I suppose I'm an aspiring audiophile in that I tend to hear many subtleties in music that my friends and family do not notice. The budget part is self explanatory . . . I just don't have the funds to acquire the high-end gear I would like. This brings me to where I am now -- looking for a very good HT receiver that has a certain 'musical' quality to it for the times I want to sit with the lights down low and really experience just the music alone. I realize a true audiophile would have a separate setup for this purpose . . . no doubt a tube amplifier or similar, but I have to make due with what I can afford. The availability issue is the fact that as much as I would love to go audition a wide range of products and make a choice based on personal preference, I simply don't have the resources available in my area. This leads to a lot of interest in forums and product reviews as a point of reference . . . essentially, a starting point. Then I can begin the process of really narrowing down my choices. The reason for this thread was only a way to get to that starting point. |
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New member Username: AlderashPost Number: 8 Registered: Jun-06 | Chris, The reason for the 7.1 request is that my room is already wired up for 7.1 surround, so I just wanted a receiver that can accomodate this. I hear what you're saying about available titles with the extra channels, however -- thanks for your input. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1869 Registered: Sep-04 | Brad, Sorry, I have not heard the Cambridge Audio receivers. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: Alright_boyPost Number: 9 Registered: Jan-07 | In short, depending on your listening skills, background and preferences, you might hear a difference and you might not. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9674 Registered: May-04 | . Take into consideration the amplifier's ability to drive the speaker you select. Most receivers have a difficult time with low impedance loads and lots of phase shift in the crossover. If you have a hard to drive loudspeaker, you might easily hear a difference when various amplifiers are trying to deal with the difficulties of the speaker load. If the speaker you choose is very easy on an amplifier, more amplifiers will sound less stressed - hopefully that means better - when dealing with the requirements of the speaker. . |