I am about to purchase a pair of Paradigm Studio 60v4 and I was hoping to get an opinion. I listened to them today and they sounded GREAT. The dude at the store there said the Adcom that was driving them was pushing 70w. I found that hard to believe. I have an Onkyo that's rated for 110w...is this going to be enough to drive these speakers? Thanks guys!
Those are very nice speakers. If you get them, I am sure you will really enjoy them. However, I need to know, which Onkyo receiver?
Generally speaking, your Onkyo is not going to have the same power and authority that the Adcom amp has. This is the difference between a receiver and high quality seperates. Even though the salesperson estimated that they were only hitting 70 watt peaks, the smallest Adcom amp currently offered has 125 wpc (others have over 200wpc), and even then, Adcom amps are a lot more substantial sounding than Onkyo amps, simply because Adcoms have a much better power supply, capacitors and higher output transistors (simply put, Adcom watts are bigger than Onkyo watts). So, there is more "oomph" behind those 70 watt peaks.
However, that does not mean that the Onkyo is not up to the job--I just don't know. If you have an Onkyo A/V receiver, I would suggest that you keep it as a two channel so that you actually get your 110 watts and see if the speakers sound as good. I am sure that they will be reasonably close to the Adcoms used in a two channel arrangement. Unfortunutely, if you are using the Onkyo in a HT arrangement, driving 5 or more channels, bench tests will show that your Onkyo will probably only get about 50% of its rated power before the amp clips. Therefore, if you are getting a pair of Studio 60s and you are driving them with your Onkyo, you will get much better performance in stereo.
Later on, if you find something is still missing, you can easily add an Adcom power amp, using your Onkyo as a pre-amp.
Hawk is right. The Onkyo won't have the power nor will it present like the Adcom. Paradigm speakers are generally speaking a current hungry speaker with a wild impedence curve. This means you have to come to the dance with an amp capable of enough current to keep a good tight reign on the proceedings. The Adcom may not have been rated as powerful as your receiver (as the way they were measured is surely different) but it is a higher current and in effect more powerful amp. Hawk is also correct about getting better performance driving the 60's in stereo with the Onkyo. Hawk there was a smaller Adcom made recently I think (not sure) perhaps they still have one in the house. Anyway I will stick my neck out and state with certainty that the Onkyo will not have what it takes to get even half of the performance from the 60's that they are capable of. Sorry need more amp!
Thanks Hawk. I have an older (12 or 13 yrs) Onkyo TX-SV717PRO. It has Digital Dolby Pro Logic Surround Circuit (for whatever that's worth)and says the fronts drop to 85w when used in "Surround" mode. Having said that, I use it mostly for playing cd's- no HT. I guess I will see what I get when used in a 2-channel set-up and go from there. Do you have a recommendation for a power amp to power up with this amp(should that need arise) or do I scratch the Onkyo and start fresh?
Scott, that Onkyo will be fine with the Paradigms, as long as you don't goose the volume knob. The problem is, I would goose the volume knob, and the result will be burned out paradigm tweeters. Guaranteed, in writing.
Spending your money is easy, from my seat, so go ahead and order up a Nad 162/272 pre/power amp set.
OOOOOr, an Outlaw rr2150 stereo receiver. Or maybe a H/K 3340 stereo receiver. Both have TT pre-amps, both are good.
There are more similar products out there, lets give Scott sommore to look at!
why not just let him use his Onkyo as a pre-amp and add the NAD C272 power amp you suggest (or an Adcom)?
Art:
You are probably right about the lower powered Adcom. I seem to recall there was a lower powered Adcom, but when I went to the website, it is no longer showing in their product line. It didn't occur to me that the dealer nevertheless may have had one driving these speakers---nice call!
Scott:
All I can tell you is to try it. If you really liked the sound so much, just try them with your Onkyo and see if you get what you want. Art and I do agree that Adcom watts are bigger than Onkyo watts, so you will know that with better power, you can further improve your sound later on. But there is no way we can interpret whether the Onkyo has enough for your tastes, in your room. You can only determine that by trying them out at your home.
Nuck, I am interested in your opinion on Hawks question regarding using the Onkyo as a pre-amp and adding a power amp. Are the NAD and Onkyo going to play nice together?
Thanks, Hawk. If I'm understanding everything I am reading here lately, those 60's need more/better power to keep them focused. I am not against spending more to get the sound that I am looking for...I just don't want to throw good money after bad. I spent the last 25 years with a couple of different Onkyo receivers and a pair of Cerwin Vega D7's that I completely abused. I loved the sound of the Vegas but I've also grown older and things change........
By the way, the wealth of information and the amount of talent/brainpower/knowledge spread around on this forum is incredible. Thanks to all who freely contribute!
If you've got a few bucks to spend, look into Rotel's pre-amp/power amp seperates. They sound amazing with the Studio 60's. If I had the money and a room appropriate for the 60's, there would be no question in my mind where I'd start looking. Would other stuff sound better? Maybe, but it would cost significantly more money.
Just my opinions though. If you've got the money, time, and dealer who can pair them up for a demo, you shouldn't make any judgement until you hear that set up.
Scott, I can't call the Onkyo/Nad from here, and even if I did, would it matter? I trust Nad's amps. However, I don't trusk Onkyo's pre amp. If you use the Onkyo as a pre, I suggest you de-couple the power supply from the Onkyo's power section. The Onk may use a j-fet output, or a mosfet array. Either will cause variations in the power supply, even without the load of output.
I've had the Onkyo and cd's boxed since August.....building a house. When I can move in (next week) the first order of business is the tunes. I'm definitely a novice with this stuff but music makes my world go round and I'm getting to a point where I can afford better stuff, and don't have that stubborn "as long as it plays loud" mentality that completely ignores quality. For now, I keep reading.
Nuck....I hate to keep buggin' you here, and I don't expect someone else to do ALL the work for me- But, I can't find info on the Rotel RMB 985 you spoke of. Is this model discontinued?
So then I have a nice pair of speakers, and a good amp. My weakest link has become the pre amp. Have I at least eliminated the burned out tweeter problem when goosing the volume? Will the Onkyo suffice in this arrangement without damage to the Rotel or Paradigm's until I can eliminate the Onkyo part of the equation?
Scott, If you have not already purchased the Studio 60's($1,700) I would recommend you listen to the B&W DM604s3($1,400). They have a richness and depth of sound that I think is better than the STUDIO 100s($2,500). You'll find too that the soundstage is farther back with the Paradigms. Of course, It's personal preference all the way but I just bought the B&W's and I'm extremely impressed.
Thanks to all for your input. I listened to NAD and Rotel with the Paradigm 60's. I decided on the Rotel 1070 amp and pre-amp and 1080 tuner. Just waiting for delivery of the 60's and we can get the new home groovin'. I'm sure my son will find good use for the old Onk. Perhaps a good rig for the garage.
for a self proclaimed bass fanatic, you should be able to notice that the studio 60's need a little bit of help in the lower register if you spent any amount of time with them. I am quite surprised they satisfied you
For the amount of bass you like (or claim to like, I can not figure it out), I really am totally shocked you liked the paradigm studio speakers, as they are really quite refined in that department, and not overbearing :-)
400dB could probably d...,
SouthWest Mi...
Too Many DBs...
Post Number: 1012 Registered: Dec-06
Posted on
I think the reason I liked them so much is that I was playing a bass CD through them at high volume with that 200x5 Rotel amp and they handled it well. I also watched Van Helsing with them as mains and a Seismic 10 for the sub, it gave a great presentation. WHO SAYS IT'S OVERBEARING???? Who said I like loud bass, maybe what I mean is I like ultra deep bass at a realistic level...
that may be it... you may have issues with your wording
however, I still find it difficult to believe that you blew your seismic haha. It is just that I have never heard of this before.
Also, bass CD's are not what I consider a good reference point IMHO. Many of them are overblown and way too loud.
An acoustic bass or a piano in the lowest registers is IMHO one of the best references.
Techno and house music has pumped up (distorted) bass. While it can be fun to listen to, it is not what I would judge performance on.
HOWEVER, if that is predominately what you listen to, you need to take that into consideration, and choose speakers that perform well given the task at hand.
That system is one of my favorites. It's very hard to fault it, especially at the price it costs. Each component on its own is pretty good. Together they're amazing. IMO, synergy in a system is pretty much the most important thing. That system's definitely got it.
If you think it sounds good, try adding a Pro-Ject Xpression turntable to that system. Simply phenominal.
If I had the proper room for it, that system would definately be on my short list.
I've had a few days with the new setup now and athough the "break-in" period for the Studio 60's is a form of torture (it's difficult to stay off the volume), I am really starting to appreciate this setup!
At first I thought the system was a nice improvement from the old Onkyo/Cerwin Vega system, BUT the sound seemed to me (an admitted amateur)to be a little bit hollow and not as warm as I recalled hearing at the shop I purchased the stuff from. I thought perhaps the room here at home was not quite right....I must admit a bit of disappointment at the thought of the room being "wrong" settled in.
Now, I don't know if it's my imagination or not but the speakers have "filled in" and smoothed out (if there is such a thing). This system is awesome! I am VERY IMPRESSED.
Thanks for suggesting Rotel, Stu!!
Thanks to Nuck for talking me out of trying to use the Onkyo. The sad part of it is, I brought the manual for my Onkyo to the dealer who originally tried to sell me the Studio 60's. He said it would be fine and was still willing to sell me the 60's with that receiver. I was going to just upgrade my system by getting new speakers...I don't have any doubts that what you said about burned out tweeters is true. Thanks. This was money well spent!
Again, thanks to all for steering me in the right direction.
By the way, I've also become addicted to reading the posts here and learning more about what makes this stuff tick.
Hey Stryvn! Good to hear that you like the kit! That Rotel/Paradigm combo is a classic! Art had a combo before and it took a long time for him to find that synergy again. You will likely have that system for like 30 yrs!
It really is a lot of fun to have someone follow up on advise that we put forward, let us spend the money and time, you get the short-cut to something worthwhile.
I hope you will stick around our little forum here.
Yes....about that cd player. I'm already eyeballing the RCD-1072. I've been cruising the cd forum looking for a bad word on this unit.....can't find one. It looks like Cambridge gets thrown around a lot too when someone is looking for a new cdp.
I always thought a cd player was a cd player. When I listened to 2 units side by side I was amazed at the difference in sound. I'm so naive. But I'm learning and having busloads of fun!! Where does it all end? I suppose when the bank account is empty.
Who said I like loud bass, maybe what I mean is I like ultra deep bass at a realistic level...