Rega Mira 3 and Focus 140 ??
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Bronze Member Username: LazoroskiSkopje, Macedonia Macedonia, T... Post Number: 14 Registered: Jul-06 | Dear all, I drive my Dyn's with Rotel RA-1070 int. (which is rated quite powerful 100W into 8ohms) but still there is something missing  When I compare my system with the my brothers (Rotel RA-02 and B&W dm303) or my friends (Rotel 1070 + B&W DM 603 S2) I find my sound bit more detailed and realistic, but unfortunately very lazy, unemotional and kind of boring. The first thing that grabs me in hi-fi is emotions and rhythm, and for my taste, I don't have it at home  I'm really in love with the speakers (I went through so much to get them) and therefore I'm thinking of a new amplifier. I'm aware that Focus 140 needs some top electronics but availability and budget is also in question. I'm thinking of Rega Mira 3 and I would appreaciate your comments on such combo ? I suppose Frank has some idea What about Naim Nait 5i ? (although Mira 3 has some obvious advantages, concerning my budget , such as phono input and around 300 EUR lower price) I really can not audition any of these products and that is why I find your input really valuable. Thank you in advance, Zoran Lazoroski |
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Bronze Member Username: LazoroskiSkopje, Macedonia Macedonia, T... Post Number: 15 Registered: Jul-06 | I will try to give you some more description of how my system sounds like: - The sound is kind of laid back - soundstage is quite small (not going further than 1 m in front of the center between the speakers) - sometimes I have the feeling of total disapearance of the speakers, but sometimes the speakers are just to "present" - bass can be bit boomy (ok I will subscribe this to my room acoustics - which is not excellent) but what bothers me is that the character of the sound is changed when I go a bit louder (not earspliting bit just louder) - bass gets boomier and the treble a bit to bright and not very pleasant - mids are excellent and open but always way in front of the rest of the music, which lays somewhere behind ans sounds lazy (as if the whole orchestra is not in the mood and only the trumpet player is enthusiastic) - hope you understand what I mean  - no emotions (at least IMO) as if the speakers are there to do their job releasing sound in the air, but no music I hope you get a better picture and see what I would like to have the new amplifer. I just mentioned the Mira 3 and Nait 5i as an options which should (at least according to this forum) bring what I miss, but please feel to recommend any other amp. you think will do fine (price range 800-1400 EUR (USD) available in Europe ) ? Thanks again, Zoran |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1558 Registered: May-05 | Zoran, I haven't heard the Dyn's (will sometime in the near future), so I can't say for certain what is or isn't causing your problem. You didn't list your sources (CD player, truntable), but I looked them up in your profile. In my experience, Rotel isn't how you describe it. It's a lively amp with decent pace and timing. It's also a bit forward sounding. With the wrong speakers, it can get a little bright. I have no idea how well Rotel combines with Dynaudio, having never heard them. The charecteristics you describe reflect what I've almost always heard in Marantz products. They are very laid back, almost lazy, and smooth sounding. They also have been criticized for boomy bass that doesn't go very deep. This leads me to believe that your Marantz CD player may be the cause. Does the system sound the same when playing vinyl? You mention your brother and friends have Rotel integrated amps. What CD players are they using? You may want to borrow one of their CD players (if different than yours) to help rule out the source as the issue. If it doesn't sound any different when swapping source components, the room may very well be at fault. Or it could be a speaker placement problem. These are another issue in and of themselves that we'll work on if this is the problem. The Nait 5i and Rega Mira 3 are very good amps that may very well be what you're looking for. However, if you keep the source the same, they may not make enough of a difference. At the very best, an amplifier can only hope to perfectly amplify the signal its being fed. If that signal isn't very good, the amp can't fix it. The amps you mention bring up very polarized opinions. The Nait 5i more so than the Mira 3. For the most part, people either love them or hate them. Most people respect them, but not everyone is 100% sold on what they're trying to accomplish. These are brands you really need to hear in a proper environment before purchasing. If you can't hear them first, you need to make sure you can return them for little if any financial loss if they don't work out for you. Sorry for the long post. In summary, try borrowing a different player from your brother or friend. A Rotel CD player would be most preferred. If you can't, some dealers will let you demo one in your home if you ask nicely. If still no change, we should look at other factors before spending more money on amplification and hoping for the best. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3787 Registered: Feb-05 | The Mira 3 is a fine amp but ain't up to the task of adequately driving the Dyn's, neither is the Rotel. Try a beefier amp with a robust power supply. Also although the quality of the Rotel and Mira 3 amps are excellent for the money the Dyn's are at the next level and will really show their stuff with not only more power but better quality electronics. As Stu has pointed out that includes the oft overlooked and perhaps most important piece...your source. BTW the Naim can drive the Dyn's and is of the quality that I speak of but they really are at the limit of the Nait's ability. Another variable is that perhaps you don't like the speakers as much as you thought. Though I like the Dyn's they are not my first, second, or even third choice in their price range. Frank should be along with receommendations here shortly. Keep in mind that anyones's suggestions are just that and you will need to decide what's right in your system. Frank is very knowledgeable but he and I have very different tastes in speakers (not electronics or cables though). There is no right or wrong where preference is involved. |
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Bronze Member Username: LazoroskiSkopje, Macedonia Macedonia, T... Post Number: 16 Registered: Jul-06 | Thank you guys ! You are right ! It's all a question of preference and that is why I described what I don't like in the system. Your comments makes me think of something else ... it might be that I'm so much blindly in love with my speakers that I can't see that I might don't like the Dyn's presentation...though I doubt..I'm fully convinced that the speakers can do much more with some better amp. And Stu, you are perfectly right that the source can be the problem because I enjoy much more listening to vinyl, yet its still not up to what I would expect from the speakers I have ... The presentation is much more forward, not that lazy but it still lacks some emotions and musicality... My friend has the same amp, the same Marantz source and B&W 603 S2 (as mentioned earlier) and the same recordings at his place are much more dynamic and lively (as if the the amp. has much more grip over the speakers and is if the speakers are pushed to their best limits ) ... not in my case ... and just for a fact I really don't like the 600 series , but in this case I have to admit: it just sounds better |
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Bronze Member Username: RushwjKnoxville, TN USA Post Number: 46 Registered: Feb-05 | Art, so what integrated amp would you say is up to the challenge of driving these Dyns? I'm condsidering the 140s w/ an Arcam A70 - your post would suggest that this may not be enough. any thoughts are welcome. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5230 Registered: Dec-04 | William, you might try to find a Classe amp. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5231 Registered: Dec-04 | http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstran&1173408660 I like the ca200, meself. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3792 Registered: Feb-05 | Krell, Jeff Rowland, Plinius, Classe, Musical Fidelity, Simaudio and so on. |
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Bronze Member Username: ByamPost Number: 22 Registered: May-06 | The 140's certainly need plenty of quality power. When I first got my 140's about a year ago I used a Musical Fidelity a3.2 integrated and the a3.2 cd player as a source. Once they were fully broken in I could tell they needed more power than the 115W from the a3.2. In September I upgraded to the Musical Fidelity a308 integrated. It was a noticeable and very pleasant upgrade. After a few weeks of listening I felt my cd player was in need of an upgrade. I found a used a308 cd player that should arrive in a week to ten days. I look forward to a more dynamic sound from the Dyn's. |
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Bronze Member Username: LazoroskiSkopje, Macedonia Macedonia, T... Post Number: 17 Registered: Jul-06 | What do you think about the following choices for the Focus 140? Primare I30 Arcam FMJ A32 Musical Fidelity A 3.5 Thanks, Zoran |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1839 Registered: Sep-04 | Hi there, Zoran, the reason your brothers' systems sound good is because they are driving easy loads with fairly powerful amplifiers. Therefore, the amplifiers can do the job properly. The Rotel 1070 is powerful but the way it delivers that power is a bit lazy and the 140s just show that off. This is the problem when building systems around speakers first... I don't have direct experience of the Primare and Musical Fidelity. However, they are both meant to be very capable and powerful. The Arcam I know quite well, and it is a powerful amplifier which can drive the 140s well. The question is whether you like the presentation. The Nait5i is not really man enough to drive 140s, and neither is the Mira3. Really and truly you should be looking at the Naim NAP200 power amp, and the matching preamp to use with this would be the NAC202, but now we are talking much more expensive. Naim will be launching a new integrated amp called the SuperNait which will definitely be able to drive the 140s. It will be cheaper than the 202/200 but it will cost far more than a Nait5i or even the 122x/150x. It'll also be better of course. William, from what I've written you'll see that I think the A70 is not in the right ballpark. You should really be looking at the FMJ A32 like Zoran. If your budget is the A70, then look at lower Dyns such as the Audience 52SE and a better amp/source. Once again, nobody mentions their source. If you don't have a decent CD player, it won't matter how good your amp and speakers are since the signal will just not be right. In fact, if it's truly an entry level source, its weaknesses could be magnified and exposed quite brutally in this company! The absolute minimum CD player in this kind of system would be a Rega Apollo in my view. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5266 Registered: Dec-04 | Good call, Frank. Zoran may be visiting his line of credit on this one, but the reality is just as you have stated. Unless a deal falls into your lap, Zoran, the next step(and easily the last) would be to follow Frank's rec. Especially the Apollo. NAD 542, Rotel 1072, Shanling as well. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 1034 Registered: Dec-03 | Zoran: Have you thought of using the Rotel merely as a pre-amp and getting a more powerful sounding amp to drive your Dyns? I happen to agree with Frank that the Rotel amps can sound a little lazy. I drive my Dynaudio Audience 42s with the same Rotel amp section you have and I also have not been that satisfied with the overall sound--Frank's description of "lazy" seems to be the right adjective. However, when I hook my Dyns up to my NAD T753 A/V receiver, I do not hear a problem. In fact, the sound is smoother and more authoritative--exactly what I want to hear. I am not expert on the innards of an amplifer, but it seems to me that something with a beefier power supply may be just what your Dyns need--not necessarily more power, per se, but something with a stronger power supply. |
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Bronze Member Username: RushwjKnoxville, TN USA Post Number: 47 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks all for the tips. Frank, i was considering the Apollo (don't know of a dealer in my area though) as a source or an Arcam CD player. I do enjoy the arcam presentation, but have not heard their integrateds w/ the 140's. I was also considering the arcam AVR350 receiver (100Watt/channel) for my main system and running the 140's in my library as the "zone 2" off the receiver. any thoughts there are appreciated. by the by, would still go w/ Rega Apollo or arcam CD player. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5295 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi William. I have not heard either the Rega or the Arcam player.I have, however had a longstanding relationship with a number of posters on this forum. With the overwhelming acceptance of the Rega Apollo on the forum, accepted by a lot of folks here that I know, I could not, in good concience, recommend anything else. Try the Rega! |
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Bronze Member Username: RushwjKnoxville, TN USA Post Number: 48 Registered: Feb-05 | Anybody in the Dayton or Cincinnati, Ohio area (columbus is do-able too) where the Rega could be auditioned? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3796 Registered: Feb-05 | The Apollo is a fabulous sounding player for the money but if I had it to do over again I'm not sure that I would buy it again. For one thing it's the pickiest player I've used. It doesn't play or only partly plays a number of my cd's. For example Stephon Harris fabulous new disc "African Tarantelle". The Apollo thinks that it has 9 tracks which ofcourse it does...unfortunately there is a break in the last track that the Apollo doesn't recognize so it stops in the middle of track 9 and thinks that the CD is complete. There are several cd's like that. I try the other players in the house and they have no problems playing them back. To be fair to the Apollo I have friends with very high end players that only play 9 out of 10 Naxos discs, cheap players have no problem with them. Just an FYI. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5296 Registered: Dec-04 | And that pisses you off in how many ways, Art? The $11.00 dvd player from WalMart gets all the tracks right. Gotta love this ferkin hobby, man. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3798 Registered: Feb-05 | What can you say man! My friends Levinson separates don't play 10% of his Naxos discs, which I might add that the Apollo ain't too fond either (it does however do better than the Levinson at playing them). Anyone familiar with classical music will know that a whole lotta great music is available on Naxos at a budget price. What doesn't play on the Apollo will play on the DVD2910. It's all good!!! |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1044 Registered: Nov-05 | CD Universe thinks it has 8 track, Art. Your player might be better than you think by trying to play nine! http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=7279868&BAB=E Sorry about the Apollo problems. Seems on this forum there have been problems with the C542 also, but mine has been played to death for over a year now and has been faultless. Are you going to send it in under it's warranty? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5302 Registered: Dec-04 | Yup, some stuff just won't play. Pisses me off to no end, as well. What does play is first rate, of course, it's just the rest that is annoying.(more than annoying, but that is an acceptable word). I love this hobby. Really. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3799 Registered: Feb-05 | It does have 8 but the player thinks it has 9 oops. You get it (I hope). I played my 542 for quite awhile before it started losing it's mind...I would just unplug it from the wall, wait a half a minute or so and plug it back in and all was good. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1045 Registered: Nov-05 | I think that's the problem, we gave these things minds. We shoulda known better! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5303 Registered: Dec-04 | 'Let me try mine' T2. Friggin' things make me Batty. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3800 Registered: Feb-05 | Agreed MR... |
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Bronze Member Username: LazoroskiSkopje, Macedonia Macedonia, T... Post Number: 18 Registered: Jul-06 | Thank you all for your comments ! Unfortunately in my area I can not audition many of the mentioned products If I go with something new I will have to do it only based upon review and forums. I have two good offers for Primare I30 and for Arcam FMJ A32 and it is very likely that I will probably choose one of these two. Frank, can you please shortly describe the Arcam presentation (as you experience it) ? I'm aware that I should listen and decide but in my case, as said earlier, I dont have the pleasure to experience Arcam for a trial Back to the source: I'm aware that my source is an entry level and I'm thinking of changes for quite a while. From the above mentioned I have the possibility to easily get for a trial Rotel 1072, and I will do so. How do you think it compares to Rega Apolo or to NAD 542 ? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1843 Registered: Sep-04 | Zoran, From what my colleagues have said I would probably prefer the Arcam to the Primare. The Arcam is a good solid performer for the money. The sound doesn't take risks, slightly warm and pleasant. Arcam have improved very much over the years from a warm and woofly sound to a slightly warm more upbeat sound. The FMJ is better than the lower end Arcam products by having a more mature cultured presentation. You're aware that it won't put a foot wrong, but it is still enjoyable to listen to. In the same way as any other brand, the Arcam benefits from being matched to good ancillaries. It works particularly well with the Acoustic Precision EIKOS interconnect (a snip at £90 for 1m, probably the best value for money on the planet provided it works in your system). The only way to beat this interconect in an Arcam system is to spend three times the money! It really helps with the pace and rhythm of the system. Speaker cable should be Chord Odyssey2 (£18/m - ouch) or better (EPIC is £38/m). Source - the Rotel CD players are Rotel's weak point in my opinion. In fact all Rotel's sources seem to be weak in comparison to the competition. Their strength is amplification.The 1072 is a smooth solid performer, but the problem, as with all Rotel sources, is it is too smooth - almost as if the life has been stamped out of it. The C542 has more life and soul, even if it is not as cultured and doesn't have as good resolution. The Apollo is in the next league up in my opinion. Art, I've not had any problems playing any CDs on our shop Apollo, and our shop CDs are not exactly well taken care of! I suggest you take it back and have it checked. Take some CDs which give you trouble with you. Ask for them to check their Apollo against yours with your CDs. The only thing I find annoying about the Apollo is the 12 - 15 secs it takes to initialize a disc. Also, I stress that the Apollo is the minimum I would suggest in a system ending with 140s. I'd normally suggest something a bit better if possible (Naim CD5i, CD5x, Densen B410, Arcam FMJ, Rega Saturn)... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3803 Registered: Feb-05 | It's a problem that is well recognized and written about with the Apollo. Unfortunately I don't have a good dealer to work with. I called the Sound Org in Texas and they informed me that a new Rega dealer just opened closer to my area and they will call to see if I can work with them relative to the Apollo. We'll see what happens... |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1849 Registered: Sep-04 | Really? News to me... Keep us informed. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3805 Registered: Feb-05 | I will Frank. I got a call from the other dealer and they stated that they were going to work with me to resolve the issue. First we are going to find out whether it is a universal software issue or my specific player and go from there. |
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Bronze Member Username: LazoroskiSkopje, Macedonia Macedonia, T... Post Number: 19 Registered: Jul-06 | Thank you Frank for the detailed comment ! You are very helpful and patient with newbies as my self Thanks a lot mate ! It seems that I will start saving money for some better combo including the Arcam FMJ and the Rega Apollo. I have a good offer for an ex-demo Arcam FMJ A32 of 1100 EUR (around 700 GBP) and I might go with it if its still available. I wonder will I be getting some significant improvement if I first go with the new Rega source and keep the Rotel amp for the time being ? Brgds, Zoran. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5312 Registered: Dec-04 | Zoran, don't skip the 1072 for a listen! My experience differs from Frank's but I find the 1072 to be very articulate, the 542to be a tad soft, and not as quick for snare drums and cymbal rides, especially. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3806 Registered: Feb-05 | Frank is a valuable member of our forum and someone who's opinions and information I respect immensely. Just like with anyone, folks will differ in opinion and neither be right or wrong. Frank, like all or many of us has his preferences and prejudices. He does not like ProAc and Rega speakers and his colleagues don't like Spendor speakers and believe that Paradigm is the Canadian equivalent to Bose...it ain't so but they believe that. I like ProAc speakers, love Rega speakers (quite good for the money but definately not to everyones taste), enjoy Spendors with the right electronics such as Naim and know that Paradigm speakers represent one of the best values in audio. If you like the presentation of Arial speakers but can't afford them, take a good look at Paradigm. Point being that we all have our preferences and they aren't necessarily right or wrong. Frank's is more learned than many but no more legitimate than those that are on either side of our heads. I, like Nuck like the Rotel CD players and with the right gear and music preference find them more involving than NAD's. Both represent good value (monetarily) but present completely different values relative to music. |
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Bronze Member Username: LazoroskiSkopje, Macedonia Macedonia, T... Post Number: 20 Registered: Jul-06 | Nuck, Art, Thanks for the comments I will surely try the Rotel 1072, first because I can have on a trial quite easy (unlike other products in my area) and second because I always had this sympathy for Rotel products. I will keep you posted on the results I get and my impressions. Also I had just been offered another amplifier option as a second hand in mint condition and excellent price (1200 EUR total). It is Densen B200 / B300 pre./amp combo. Any opinions on this ? I believe it can be quite enough for the Focus 140 ... 200 W 4 ohms.. Brgds, Zoran |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3807 Registered: Feb-05 | Never heard Densen, but have heard good things about that product line. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5315 Registered: Dec-04 | Never heard the Densen either, Zoran. Agree with Art per Frank A's abilities and contributions on the forum: Gold Star! The easiest to listen to is a good way to start, Zoran. But keep digging, listen to as much gear as you can! PS, Art knows his way around the stuff better than I do, too! |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1560 Registered: May-05 | Densen makes some great gear. It's too bad it's not more popular over here. I've only heard their entry level intergated amp and cd player. I can't remember what speakers they were paired with. I'd best charecterize them as a cross between Naim and Bryston. Pace, rythym, and timing just about on par with Naim, yet a little smoother and not as forward. It's very engaging (even though that's very subjective) and maybe does some of the "audiophile" things better than Naim. Keep in mind this is comparing entry level gear in Naim vs Densen. That being said, the entry level Densen CD player is about $2700 if I recall, vs $1700 for Naim's CD5i. The Densen integrated is also about $3-$400 more I think. Taking the price difference out of the equation, I'd prefer Densen's entry level setup over the Nait5i/CD5i combo. But the Nait5i/CD5x combo would be a question of what mood I was in that day, and would most likely give the nod to Naim. Also, I don't know about reliability, resell value, or customer support/service. Densen's got a very limited presence here in my experience. Zoran - If the components you mention are similar to the integrateds (I don't see why they wouldn't be), and are powerful enough to drive the Dyns sufficiently, this may be a no brainer. Just keep in mind that once you go this route, be fully prepared to upgrade the sources. The Debut III and Marantz CD player will not hold their own in this system. Frank should be able to tell you how well they'll handle your speakers, how reliable they are, and so on. Is it just me, or is it the more I post, the more I ask Frank's opinion? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5323 Registered: Dec-04 | It's something in the water, Stuie. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1850 Registered: Sep-04 | Zoran, The Densen 200/300 is a very good pre/power indeed. That is an excellent price too. Remember that at this level the electronics requires decent cabling. Densen themselves use and recommend Nordost but I had better results with Chord Co. The 200/300 will be able to drive the FOCUS 140s without trouble. In many ways the Densens are right up my street. They're fast, articulate and rhythmic. If they have a weakness, it's that they are just a touch cool, but not as cool as say Cyrus or Primare. they're an excellent choice at this price in my opinion. Strictly speaking you should be looking at Densen's own CD player but I wouold tread carefully there since they have had production issues in the past. The amps have been far more reliable. The price of the FMJ A32 was good, but not as good as this price of the Densen pre/power. Everyone else, thanks for the kind words. I know that the way I word things can be quite emphatic, but you are right when you say my opinion is just that - my opinion - no more, no less! regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 74 Registered: Jun-06 | Densen products carry a lifetime warranty, which speaks a lot about its build quality. However unlike Bryston the warranty does not get transfered with the product. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5388 Registered: Dec-04 | And THAT is a definite dump for Densen. Resale goes to shite. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 79 Registered: Jun-06 | Yes its a kind of Let Down - i would rather like some thing with a 10 year transferable warranty rather than a life time of non transferable warranty, isnt warranty supposed to be on the product rather than the person who owns?. Densen is up there with some of the best though. I have a oppurtuity to snap a baby densen amp at a very good price and getting tempted - it shall be much cheaper than a nait 5i for me. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5427 Registered: Dec-04 | saurabh, you are buying the piece for your enjoyment, yes? Not planning on flipping it for a few bucks? Then toss the resale issue, buy the beauty if that is the one you want. I havn't heard the Densen, please post another link, and get the best! |
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New member Username: AntizPost Number: 9 Registered: Nov-06 | Hey all, I own quite new(4months) 140's, and I think they are ready to sign. But I have same kinda "issues" than Zoran. Everything what he descriped about focus sounds are almost exatly same as mine thoughts. Yesterday I listened Floyds Echoes cd, and noticed even better that they lack presentation, sound is kinda "big" but it's like miles away. I really wanted it would be like in my face. My system is Harman Kardon amp 970/HK hd970cd. I've spoken my dealer, he prefered as many of you, more powerful amp. At the moment, I'm saving money for amp. |
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New member Username: AntizPost Number: 10 Registered: Nov-06 | Ok, sometimes my view might be too critical, like that I said that sound is miles away. It's not miles, but there's missing more lively/brihgter sound. I allmost hate to add more treble in song, but sometimes it's needed to get more brighter sounds. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1902 Registered: Sep-04 | Jouni First make sure that the speakers are wired up correctly. Your description is almost like they're not in phase. If that's not the problem... According to the specs, your amplifier is more than powerful enough to drive the 140s. It's more likely that your electronics don't have the quality to supply a decent signal to the 140s. The last thing you could complain about with properly driven 140s is a lack of presence. Try hearing them driven by a cd player and amplifier which is in the same ballpark price range (each) as the speakers. If it still sounds wrong from your point of view, then the speakers aren't for you. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5751 Registered: Dec-04 | Oh yeah, the 140's will expose everything. I last heard them with a moon setup including cdp. That was very very nice. I heard the 25 speakers there, too, anniversary. They need to be placed very carefully. |
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Bronze Member Username: AntizPost Number: 11 Registered: Nov-06 | Thanx guys. I'll try couple of things. Have to test how my dvd player sounds against hd970cp. I've done it once, and I'm almost sure that sound didn't changed much. That tells something about cdplayer? I've been told that my cd is little "dark" sounding unit, so maybe it's that. But I beleive that if i give 100wats more power to dyn's they will sure become more controlled and dynamic. That's just my logic. I'm not expert in hifi. |
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New member Username: RalfdPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-07 | Sorry for bursting in. But I read most of your comments with great interest and I have a similar problem to find an adequate amp. Couple of weeks ago I bought some new speakers (Elac 208.2) to change from 5.1 surround to a 2 channel system. I do very much like the speakers (up to now driven by an old HK AVR21) and spent some time to test different amps and players: Cambridge Azur 640A/C Rotel RA06/RCD Creek Evo and player Arcam A70/CD73 None of these amps was really satisfactory to me. Surely all of them are much better than my Harman/Kardon but overall there's still something missing. Beside the Rotel (which is indeed a bit lazy and boring) I did like the Arcam the most. But then again, also with the Arcam it was not perfect to my ears. Altogether a good resolution but everything was a bit too 'reserved'. Maybe a more powerful amp, like the FMJ A32, could also solve my problem. Does anybody have some experiences with the Elac speakers? I appreciate any comments. Ralf |
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Bronze Member Username: AntizPost Number: 12 Registered: Nov-06 | Yep, looks like you got hungry speakers, too. 4ohm speakers need good master. You need more power, same as mine. I would look something near 200watts. Don't forget test CD players as well, they have big role in system. Btw, I connected my dvd to hk 970, and I noticed the difference. Hd 970 is much more fuller sounding player, basicly it's more dynamic. But still, I would like to have more energetic and lively sound picture. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1923 Registered: Sep-04 | Jouni, If you give 100 watts of power to the Dyns, but the signal that is supplied is slow and fat then you will still give them 100 watts of slow fat signal! The amplifier cannot improve a poor signal, it can only make it worse. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: AntizPost Number: 13 Registered: Nov-06 | OK, Frank. What is your preferences to try improve signal? Speaker cables? Can you or anyone recommend good matching cables for Dynaudio Focus? This is my issue at the moment? Bass is so huge at the moment that I just can't listen loud or it wakes the whole village. I just would like to take something away from the bottom, -give it better control, and more slam would not be bad - and add a little in middle and up. Simple. I notice that when I use equalizer(winamp eq), I add "+" in -middle frequencies-, sound comes more alive and fuller, I hear background strings much moore louder, and other details. I dont use PC for music playin very often. And I just don't like equalizers. So what should I do to get the sound that I like? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1938 Registered: Sep-04 | The combinations I know with Dynaudio are based in the UK. I imagine that distribution costs are really going to hurt. The minimum amplifiers I would recommend would be the AVI Laboratory Series integrated amp and the Arcam FMJ A32. The AVI is very clean and open but a little bit clinical. The Arcam is a bit warmer and easier on the ear. From there it goes up. This all depends on having a commensurate source of course. If you have an FMJ A32, then you need a CD player that does it justice, such as an FMJ CD36 or a Naim CD5x. All these need appropriate cabling... That said, if you are getting a boom in the bass (probably mid-bass), this is most likely caused by room resonance. If one wall of your room is in the 10ft to 14ft range it's very possible that the 140s are exciting a room mode. So - how big is the room and where have you placed the speakers, both in relation to each other and in relation to the walls? Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: AntizPost Number: 15 Registered: Nov-06 | My room is about 5 Meters long for both sides. Not very big Distance of speakrs about 3meters, and half meters away from wall. Between speakers is my rack and its quite massive. No harm on rack? |
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Bronze Member Username: AntizPost Number: 16 Registered: Nov-06 | I might try Plinius 9200 some day, i've heard it's great with dynaudio. Expensive amp, but im very curious why everyone praise it. Anyone here using that combo? Please tell about your experiences! I would be deeply grateful. |
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Bronze Member Username: AntizPost Number: 17 Registered: Nov-06 | Just readed some review. Two floorstanders Elac FS208.2 vs. Dynaudio Audience 82. Very intresting. http://www.merlinaudiodesign.com.au/reviews%20repository/Speakers/Elac_FS208_v_D ynaudio.html Glad I don't own 82's ;) But I'm sure it gives some point of view how the dyns often sound. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1942 Registered: Sep-04 | The squareness of the room doesn't help. If the speakers really are emphasising the room mode (which is likely in a 15ft square room), then the excitation will be double the usual becuase the standing waves are being created both length and width ways. Your description of their location sounds good to me. You can try restricting the speaker output by inserting the foam bungs in the rear port of the speaker. Most people find this to be too much but give it a go, it may work. Regards, Frank. |
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