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New member Username: ZanyPost Number: 7 Registered: Feb-06 | Looking for a good pair of decent sound front and left6 channels. Looking to spend about $500 for a pair. Any suggestions would be appreciated. |
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New member Username: ZanyPost Number: 8 Registered: Feb-06 | I'm sorry. Typo in first post. I need front left and right floorstanding speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 852 Registered: Dec-03 | Why floorstanders? |
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New member Username: ZanyPost Number: 9 Registered: Feb-06 | WHY NOT? |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 916 Registered: Feb-05 | because it is hard to get a decent pair of floorstanders at that price. Most of the decent ones start at $700 a pair, and even then, these have compromises. The only decent floorstander that I can think of at that price is the Paradigm Esprit, which is a good speaker. But, you are still better off going for a monitor in that price range because the cabinets will resonate less in the bass. |
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Silver Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 179 Registered: Nov-05 | BA VR2s are in the price range, and arent horrible. Or look into used, options go up considereably. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3775 Registered: Mar-05 | ricky, Actually for $400 shipped from audioadvisor.com you can get the Athena AS-F2.2s which are very decent. The thing is, floorstanders tend to require a stronger amp/receiver to sound their best compared to bookshelf speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 853 Registered: Dec-03 | I sure get interesting responses whenever I ask why floorstander vs. standmount or vice versa. It's just an attempt to establish a dialog and/or get a little more info on needs and preferences, not a critique. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1095 Registered: May-05 | "The thing is, floorstanders tend to require a stronger amp/receiver to sound their best compared to bookshelf speakers." Can I ask you where you got this from and/or why do you think this is the case Ed? From what I've seen, towers are more effecient than monitors. Given the same manufacturer, size, type, and number of drivers/tweeters, I can only think of one instance where a monitor is more effecient than a tower - Paradigm Studio 40 vs Studio 60. The 40's are 1dB more sensitive, hardly a difference. All others I've looked into, the comparable towers are a few dB's more sensitive. I'm not a speaker designer so maybe I'm off here, but I think more cabinet volume will make speakers more effecient under similar conditions. Tim would probably be the one to answer this one. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 854 Registered: Dec-03 | Any change in sensitivity in most speakers would probably occur because of a change in the crossover, less attenuation via L-pads or a change in the crossover point for example. Sensitivity changes because of the cabinet would be seen with horns. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2020 Registered: Dec-04 | I really have to agree, Stu. And even if the cabinet space was less adventagious, a blocking plate could make the stander a mounter in disguise, with the extra $ for appearance sakes. I will never go without the volume of a GOOD cabinet for a larger than bedroom That said Tim, you know the limitations of my fronts. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 855 Registered: Dec-03 | Looking at it, my previous post may not have been phrased well. I was trying to say that significant changes in sensitivity related to cabinet design tend to be found only in horns, other designs tend to be fairly similar. Significant in my mind is 10db or better, 1db is not, and you need 3db difference to really notice anything. |
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Silver Member Username: BvanCape Town, Copenhagen,... Post Number: 111 Registered: Jun-05 | in Eds defence, i think i remember Frank saying the smaller dynaudios(110) were easier to drive than the lighly larger an more efficient(by 1 db) 140's. it seems to make some sense to me that large speakers(floorstanders) might achieve higher spl's per watt, but at the same time need more power to properly controll the larger and more numerous drivers. b. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 856 Registered: Dec-03 | "easier to drive" may refer to the impedance curve also. Another example of a floorstander having higher sensitivity is my Myra 3-way tower. The bass cabinet uses two 6" drivers rated at 86db/w. Adding the second driver wired in parallel provided a sensitivity increase of ~3db. The upper cabinet contains a 4.5" mid and ribbon tweeter. Because the mid is relieved of low frequency reproduction duties it requires less power to do what it's asked. Is this a sensitivity increase? Well, I can say that no attenuation was required on the mid to balance it with the bass. The overall system requires less power to get it up to playing volume than some of my smaller designs. I would attribute this to increasing the number of drivers and their roles rather than the size of the cabinet. ...and then there are line arrays. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1099 Registered: May-05 | Talk about shameless self promotion. Just messing with you Tim. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 857 Registered: Dec-03 | I appreciate you guys throwin' me a bone now and then. ;-) |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzOakland Park, Florida USA Post Number: 385 Registered: Apr-04 | The Athena AS-F2 is very nice and a great value. I quite enjoy their richness, deep bass, detail and excitement. Sure the cabinet resonates a bit. Reminds me of the tube amp sound, which I like. The high end is a bit bright which puts a nice shimmer on cymbals and a bite on lead guitar. If you like a "lean", laid back sounding speaker, it's not for you. Last week I purchased a pair of discontinued Energy C-5s. They are also very nice but in a different way...more neutral, not as forward. The replacement Energy C-500 should be a winner and worth a listen. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2024 Registered: Dec-04 | Shameless self-promotion aside, Tim, your experience lies with the speakers you work with every day. I dig every post you make, with the insight you share. The athenas are hard to beat, for cheap stuff, especially as Rick likes them so much. All things to all people=nobody happy. Looking forward to the Lings. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1101 Registered: May-05 | Tim - I feel the same way as Nucko. I look forward to your posts. When I'm in the new speaker market, you'll be my first contact. I'm upgrading components this summer and will most likely go with some new speakers next year. Not to hijack the thread, but... How well do you think Myra would pair up with a Naim Nait 5i? That's the leading contender right now. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 858 Registered: Dec-03 | I don't see why not. The 5i seems capable of powering even "difficult" speakers which Myra is not. |
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New member Username: ZanyPost Number: 10 Registered: Feb-06 | I think I'm going to go with with the Athena AS-F2. But is it better to save up a little bit more and buy a different pair of speakers? |
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Silver Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 180 Registered: Nov-05 | IMO its always better to save and get the best you can, or do like most of us, and keep upgrading! But, you'll have to save again! |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzOakland Park, Florida USA Post Number: 386 Registered: Apr-04 | Well Ricky, the big problem with the Athena AS-F2.2 is that they have been mail order only since they went to series two. www.audioadvisor.com has the best price and a good return policy but if you don't like them you will have to pay to have them shipped back. Best Buy has them on their website as a "ship only" item and thier price is list, but they may let you just take them back to your nearest store for a refund. (30 day no questions asked return policy) They do have a lengthy break-in period of about two or three weeks. Out of the box they are shrill with weak bass. It all fleshes out in time though. If you don't want to hassle with the Athenas, do check out the Energy C-500s, http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/products/product-page.php?id=291 They are made by the same parent company of the Athenas, Audio Products International. You may like the Klipsch F-3 at Best Buy. No harm in giving them a listen. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 922 Registered: Feb-05 | If I remember correctly, the F-3 was very bassy. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzOakland Park, Florida USA Post Number: 387 Registered: Apr-04 | The F-3s are funny. When I listen to them I want to step back and back and back...I don't think they are bassy but the horn puts things in your face. (I did not get that impression when I auditioned the RB-75s, which I like and almost purchased.) They may work well in a large room for someone who likes rock or rap. It would be interesting to hear them in a theater set-up with an action film. |
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Silver Member Username: StoneWest CoastUSA Post Number: 180 Registered: Dec-03 | When I was looking 2 years ago, the Chorus 714 S and Acoustic Energy Evo 3 were both right about 700.00. But that is about as low as I could find for full range quality entry level floorstanders. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 931 Registered: Feb-05 | Rick, if you like the RB-75, try to find a used set of RB-5 speakers. The 75 was the series that replaced them, but the 5 is better sounding IMHO. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 774 Registered: Dec-03 | ricky: I may have missed it but what are you using to drive these floorstanders you want? Before I bought the Athenas, which are a nice speaker, I would be sure that I have an amp that would have a compatible sound. So, what amp do you have? |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzOakland Park, Florida USA Post Number: 390 Registered: Apr-04 | Hawk, You recommended the NAD C370 to me in 2004 for my Athena AS-F2s. THANK YOU! I've been very satisfied. |
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Bronze Member Username: ZanyPost Number: 11 Registered: Feb-06 | I have a Pioneer VSX-1015TX reciever. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzOakland Park, Florida USA Post Number: 392 Registered: Apr-04 | Ricky, take a look at this thread. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/215088.html |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 872 Registered: Dec-03 | Ahhhh.....that was refreshing. Talking power supply quality rather than just wattage. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 789 Registered: Dec-03 | Rick: Hey, thank you! I am really glad to hear that the NAD works for you. Your comments are nice to read as it does make me feel that I have something to contribute here. Ricky: You have thrown me a curve (aka a "googly," if you are in England), because your receiver, the 1015 is at the top of the line for the Pioneer line and that receiver has historically (last three models years) been the same receiver as the lowest end Pioneer Elite, in this case the TX52, with a few corners cut. Generally, I do not like Pioneers receivers as they generally have lousy power supplies. But, unlike the rest of the Pioneer line, the 1015 is an honest receiver. For example, you will note that it rates its power as 120 wpc across all seven channels, and from 20Hz-20Khz at .7% distortion (a trustworthy power rating). This is a very good rating. Conversely, the pioneer 815 is rated at 110 wpc x 6, but only at 1kHz and at 1% distortion (this is a misleading power rating as it can't do 110 wpc across the whole audio range and that distortion level is higher than any distortion level I have seen in at least a decade). This means that you essentially have a Pioneer Elite receiver, which is a very good combo with the Athenas. The power supply is good and the MOSFET design of the Pioneer Elites has a very warm sound--Pioneer's design goal is to have them sound "tube-like" and in many ways they do. That sound will compliment the Athenas very nicely. If you are interested, I second Rick's suggestion of going to Audio Advisor, which will let you try the Athenas for 30 days before you have to decide if you are going to keep them. Trying them yourself is the only way to know if the system is right for you, but I suspect you will like them. Good luck! |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3802 Registered: Mar-05 | > Can I ask you where you got this from and/or why do you think this is the case Ed? From what I've seen, towers are more effecient than monitors. I got this from personal experience---a friend of mine got the Athena F2s and was powering them with a cheap Yamaha (HTR something, forgot the number) and they sounded thin and bright. A few months later he bought a NAD c372 and the F2s absolutely blossomed, they sounded like completely different speakers. I've had similar experiences switching receivers and speakers at Fry's---there was a much smaller difference in how a Polk RTi4 sounded with a behemoth HK7300 vs. an Onkyo 602, than a Polk RTi10 switched between those two receivers. So my general impression is that most bookshelves allow you to get away with weaker receivers. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1142 Registered: May-05 | Ed - We've respectfully disagreed on a lot of things in the past, and hopefully that'll continue (the respectfully part). I'd think going from a cheap Yamaha to a NAD C372 would be a night and day difference on any speaker good enough to show a difference. How many people have charecterized Yamaha as 'thin and bright?' I don't think it would be due to an increased number of watts, but rather the quality of them. If their was a way to throw 20 true Yamaha watts through them vs 20 true NAD watts (somehow measured), I'd think the change would be just the same. Keep in mind, in a regular sized room, how many watts RMS are you really using? A local dealer a long time ago showed me this one - He had a regular sized room with average load speakers (can't remember which ones) connected to a McIntosh amp. The Mac amp has watt meters on the face. He had me turn it up to a somewhat loud level - about 20 watts. Then I turned it up to a point where it was uncomfortable - about 35 watts. The needle may jump for a dynamic peak, but not as much as one would think. Have you ever tried this? The Mac gauges are supposedly extremely accurate. If you haven't, find a Mac dealer and give it a go. It goes against what most people think about how much power they really need and use. After this demo, my idea of how many watts you really need came into perspective. Sorry, that one kind of went in a little different direction. My point is that a true 50 watts RMS or even 75 watts RMS is really more than most people will ever need or use. With the HK, Onkyo, and Polk experiment, how did you know you were feeding the speakers the same amount of power? Did you have to crank the volume control to get the same SPL? What was the SPL? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3804 Registered: Mar-05 | Obviously the HK/Onkyo/Polk experiment would've been a lot better had I brought in an SPL meter, so yes I was just going by ear. However there was an immediate and huge difference in how the RTi10s sounded with the HK than with the Onkyo at roughly the same volume level, much less so the RTi4s. Haven't gotten near a Mac though, sorry to say. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1145 Registered: May-05 | If I was going by your experience, I'd say what you say. My experience leads me to believe other wise; not that I've purposefully tested it either way. From using various amps and speakers, I haven't noticed a tower needing enough more power to say so than a comparible bookshelf. PSB Image B25 v Image T55 on a 320BEE in my dealer's room didn't make me notice I needed more or less power for either. Cleaner power - Naim Nait 5i at 50 watts vs 320 BEE at 50 - is whole other matter though. The saving account's getting bigger and the day I get a Nait 5i is coming sooner and sooner. Next time I'm in a hi-fi shop, I'll try to compare comparable bookshelves and towers more closely for sh!ts & giggles. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3805 Registered: Mar-05 | > Next time I'm in a hi-fi shop, I'll try to compare comparable bookshelves and towers more closely for sh!ts & giggles. Do that, and post your results. I'd be curious. Of course you might want to bring an SPL meter to be a little more exact than I was. : ) Personally I have recently come to the conclusion that I'm just about done with electronics upgrading, barring some sudden ENORMOUS windfall (read: lotto winnings) that'd see me trying out a pair of Maggies or Martin Logans. My Panny/Ascend/Mirage(sub)/Marantz(cdp) combo is far from top of the line but after my last several forays into audio shops listening to different gear at various pricepoints have convinced that I'd only be getting marginal improvements...I'd much rather spend the money on CDs instead! That said, I have yet to directly compare a CD with an LP, nor a solid state amp with a tube amp...lol...nah I doubt it. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1148 Registered: May-05 | I'm paying off a lot of bills and saving up some money for most likely a Naim Nait 5i and Naim CD5i. That's one system that'll be a huge step up for me. After that, I'll buy better speakers next year. That should pretty much be the system that I'll grow old with. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 994 Registered: Feb-05 | how'd you make out? |