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Future of SACD vs. other hi-res formats

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Archive through April 05, 2006Art Kyle100
Archive through March 26, 2006Larry R100
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1263
Registered: Oct-04
Art: Well, to each his/her/their own, I guess. All I know is that Jan and I and a lot of other people have put quite a few "solutions" to the test - and have concluded that there is some merit in most of them. Sigh.

As Jan posted to John - either give it a try, or not. We've about run out of info, and patience. Works for us - and that's about it for this topic, I guess.

Nuck: look up your name on Google and see what comes up under urban language, etc. It was not a quote attributed to you, but a quote from an urban language dictionary describing "Nuck" as a proper name. From what I gather, Nuck pretty well means "jerk" in the ghetto terminology. But that's not my term - you can look it up. . .

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2967
Registered: Feb-05
Larry, you asked me to post their remarks and so I am. I am not passing any judgement on the process. I may still try it. I am looking forward to asking Jim about it tomorrow.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 507
Registered: Nov-05
Art, as I stated previously I am not going to comment on the subject any more, but if you felt Larry was a tad curt in his reply, it's not because of you, (Larry will correct me if I'm wrong). I think it's more to do with the fact that when being on this forum for a long period of time, one gets a feel of those whose words can be trusted - not that it makes them right about everything mind you - and when someone continuously casts doubt on an experience one is recommending for forum friends to try, it becomes a little tedious and disheartening. I think you'll understand.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2005
Registered: Dec-04
Oh, OK Larry, so it was just name calling in a foreign language.
That makes perfect sense.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2968
Registered: Feb-05
Actually Larry's reply was at least a bit curt and that's ok. I simply must get more info on the subject before I go messin' with my cd's. Larry seemed ok with that until I posted the first response I got from one of my most trusted audio friends. Why that was a problem I'm not sure because frankly she did not outright disagree with the cleaning cd idea. In fact she cleans her own cd's. She did however disgree with the polishing cd notion and so too did Jan. Today I'll attempt to get more info and will post that as well.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1264
Registered: Oct-04
Art: First, sir, my apologies for my "curt" reply. It was end-of-a-bad-day and I guess that I'd been around the bend so many times with this cleaning thang that my fingers got the better of my judgement. Sigh.

I'd have to say that "frustration" best describes my trials at spreading the word about a process (and, yes, product) that I truly believe makes a sonic difference.

I'm afraid, Art, that most "professionals" I come in contact with are NOT up on the latest procedures, or even "fads," and thus I was frustrated in your friend's response - but certainly not angry with you in the least. Heck, most doctors I know haven't a clue about alternative medicine, herbs, or even the latest "official" treatments! Which is why I eschew doctors at all cost, I guess.

Same with the audio-folk I come in contact with. Now I understand that I live in a super-rich but culturally-poor area - without even ONE decent CD store - and with two self-styled "hi-end" audio emporiums. BUT - when I quiz the salesfolk in those stores, they often have less knowledge than I do about equipment and specifications. Double sigh. Therefore, it made sense to me, when I brought up the subject of CD cleaning with them - they collectively shook their heads and said they'd never heard of sech uh ting. OK - triple sigh, Jan!!

Again, Art - hand-out apology offer here ________.

Nuck: Maybe I failed to express myself adequately to you. What I was trying to do was to figger out what the heck "Nuck" means - I mean, what kind of a name or nickname is that? Soooooo - I went Online and finally found that, in "urban language" - read that ghetto talk - Nuck basically means a troublemaker or jerk. Wasn't calling you that - merely posting my findings on the meaning of the word. That's all. . .still don't know why you call yourself that, though - maybe you can enlighten us all??

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8161
Registered: May-04


I disgreed with the terminology "polish". That's all. I consider what I do to be "cleaning" the CD's surface. That the disc's surface is more reflective after the process is completed is no more an indication of "polishing" than the idea your car windows look better when they're clean rather than dirty. If any of this current misunderstanding came about because I said the process of cleaning the disc is similar to waxing or polishing your car, the image I used was meant only to imply you can feel the surface becoming smoother and egde detail in reflections off the surface become more focussed and better defined. I thought it might be an analogy everyone would comprehend. Apparently not as clearly as I had hoped.



I consider the advice given on this page to be well worth the effort and expense implied. Certainly it should be, if you begin with a product less dear to the maker's wallet than the Vivid cleaner from Walker. Those of us who have tried the procedures have made most, if not all, the mistakes beforehand. The results are as reported; both good and bad results. The good from doing the process correctly, the bad from deviating from the suggested methods. Anyone who wishes to try the cleaning procedures should begin with the softest possible material(s) to put in contact with the polycarbonate surface of the disc. If you do not have the rubber or cork pad to place in the CD's jewel box while cleaning, use either a small piece of rubber carpet padding which you can buy for a few pennies or a soft towel. (You can often find the rubber "carpet padding" in small sections in a housewares depeartment. It's intended use there is to be placed under cutting boards or mixing bowls in the kitchen.) Though I've never had any stains left from applying Pledge directly to the disc surface, you might want to apply the smallest amount of cleaner required to do the job properly onto the cleaning pad rather than the disc itself. Clean with one pad/cloth and wipe the residue off with another. Wipe only across the disc and not in the direction the disc turns. Done properly you have a higher probability of scratching the disc's surface while removing and replacing the disc in the jewel box than during this procedure. As with all cleaners, let the material do the work and do not scrub the surface of the disc. Change the pads out regularly.


If you follow these basic guidelines, you shouldn't have any problems. Start learning the procedure with less important CD's in case you "discover" something we haven't discussed here.


This seems to be a process that you either want to try or you do not. I am at a loss why there is so much angst about the entire affair.


 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1265
Registered: Oct-04
MR: Thanks for coming to my defense here - sigh. I have been "up against" so many arguments against CD-cleaning on this and a couple of other forums that I guess that - like you - I'm running out of mind-fuel. (grin)

It was a year or more ago that I happened to go on some sort of audio-nuthouse forum (can't remember the xact name) and found some poor woman (I think it was a woman) who was trying to ask about and comment on her CD-cleaning. Well, these guys simply tore her apart in language that would certainly make me want to get some dynamite and toss it their way!

These guys claim to be audio engineers, and very educated folk - and they come across as being the most closed-minded jerks I've ever found Online. I wanted desperately to come to the woman's aid, but was not a forum "member," so could not post.

I come to this forum because I've found many very interesting and informative people. Sure, I disagree with some of them some of the time - and yes, I've even gotten childish enough to "quit" on occasion. (blush) But overall I've found y'all to be wonderful cyber-companions - and much better conversationalists than I usually encounter here in Swampville!!

So - to all - pats on your own backs. And thanks for being here. . .

Respectfully. . .LarryR
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1266
Registered: Oct-04
Jan: As usual - good post. Early this ayem I took to my re-polishing chores again - and found a few more CDs that had never been cleaned. Running my finger lightly across the playing surface, it felt somewhat sticky. Hmm, I thought, not good. . .

So - after cleaning - I did what you're NOT supposed to do: ran my finger across the playing surface again. Nice and smooth this time.

And please note here, Jan, that I say "cleaning," not "polishing." (BIG GRIN HERE)

Actually, I guess that I do some polishing on occasion, when I have to take Brasso to a disc that has been somehow scratched. . .

I had to chuckle about your reference to better chances of scratching just taking discs in and out of the jewel boxes. Yep - have had the old "slipped out of my hand" accident on several occasions!

Cleaning mat: mine is (I think I posted pics a long, long time ago?) a thin cork mat that I cut out of a gasket-making kit bought from Home Depot. But a piece of that plastic shelf-liner would also work - the kind with the hole in it? Anything that would keep the disc from spinning, and hold it softly-steadily.

Jan - I didn't realize that the CD-cleaning kit you have came with a holder AND polisher. Do they even make that product anymore?

I think anybody contemplating CD-cleaning should read Jan's second paragraph above - then put yourself in low gear, and proceed! (grin)

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2009
Registered: Dec-04
Well Larry, being called a general nuicance has it's place I suppose, although I did not(IMO) rate one here.
I suppose, if my position were different, ie:
Living in an upscale neighborhood, no music stores available, current in 'urban-speak' my position might be different.

I still consider your somewhat surprising post to be inconsiderate(that will do).

Nuck is Derived from Canuck, the colourful Nickname given to Canadians by the Italian Downhill team at the 72 Olympics.
Actually, it was 'those crazy Canucks' indicating Steve Podborski and the team, who wowed the crowd with breakneck speed and acrobatics.

We have an NHL(hockey) team called the Canucks also, but on the Left Coast.I am in the middle, in Toronto-land(Maple Leafs Hockey).

Thus the Nuck.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1267
Registered: Oct-04
Nuck: being one myself (maternal side of family with the de la Roche name and still have many relatives NE of Quebec City) I can relate to all you write re the "Canucks." But you still appear to miss my original point: that I was searching for the meaning or origin to your name - not calling you names myself. Nuck, here in the "south 48" obviously carries a different connotation than it does above the "line," so to speak.

And (grin) I haven't the foggiest idea what "urban speak" is - just read about it Online and guess it's a ghetto thing.

End of discussion.

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2012
Registered: Dec-04
Great, Larry.
So when I refer to you as a 'general nuicance' or give 5 for instigating, you will understand, especially considering that you Turtled.

Next time maybe check a little further before you toss the poor choice of words.

 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2970
Registered: Feb-05
"Again, Art - hand-out apology offer here ________."

Not a problem Larry. I understand that we all have those days. Hope today is a better one for you. I agree with you that some of the pro's aren't up on things as much as I think they ought to be. I'm on a quick break at work, must get back to it. Talk at ya'll later.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 509
Registered: Nov-05
"But you still appear to miss my original point: that I was searching for the meaning or origin to your name - not calling you names myself."


Jeez Nuck! What part of the above sentence didn't you understand. I thought you had a sense of humour man!

Personally, I thought Nuck was 'Three Stooge" speak:

Nuck, Nuck, Nuck!
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 748
Registered: Feb-04
"you Turtled"

!!!!

Nuck, man, get that weak sh!t out of here. This isn't a macho hockey brawl. It's supposed to be a civilized forum for the exhange of audio ideas. Larry's always been a gentlemanly contributor here and it's clear to me that he meant no personal insult in his post (and he explicitly said so). You seem to want to see an insult where there is none. I hope you come around to seeing it as all harmless.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2022
Registered: Dec-04
OK, I got the stick outta my butt, after rereading thrice.
No harm, no foul, I'll take it at face value, having posting misread threads meself.
It's all good.
MR, that's Nyuck, Nyuck.
Rough week, Larry I dig your Googling, sorry for the misread and thanks for caring enough to Google.
If you Google my name for real, you will find boring white guy, travels a lot and more boring guy.(yawn).
But I may look into the Rotel 1072 player tomorrow in the 'big city'.

Again, sorry for getting uptight, the words fall on the page like fodder, and the pickup can sometimes fill the barrow pretty quickly.I look forward to your posts as always.

Jamie
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 510
Registered: Nov-05
Nuck

That's the spirit my man!

Good luck with the Rotel. I hope it's as good for as my C542 is for me.

(Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck) Okay, I got it :-)



 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 512
Registered: Nov-05
Nuck

There was meant to be a ewe in my last sentence, but it obviously escaped as I was rounding up the words.

 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2027
Registered: Dec-04
Sheepish, MR?
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 513
Registered: Nov-05
Well, it is almost time to get the woolies out here! But then our winters are probably like your summers.

Still, it's enough to shrink the weenies :-)

 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2971
Registered: Feb-05
The Rotel is a fabulous budget player. Built like a tank and sounds very musical. Enjoy!!
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2972
Registered: Feb-05
Ok, I talked to 2 folks today Jeff who owns one of the nicest audio stores that I shop at and Jim my friend for 20 yrs (audio store proprietor and authorized service shop for many brands over the years).

Start with Jeff who stated that he uses a cd cleaner that he gets in Portland very inexpensively ($15 or so). He forgot the name but would call me with it later. Again he cleans but wouldn't polish. He would never wipe in a circular motion and uses soft lint free cloth. Tim the co owner of the store uses a product called Finyl CD treatment. Jeff says he really can't say that he's heard any differences but it hasn't hurt anything either. Tim was not available to ask so I will ask him later.

Jim said that it was amazing that I had called him at that moment because he was online trying to figure out what CD cleaner he should carry. His store, like Teri's store who I spoke to yesterday, carries the Nitty Gritty record cleaners. I told him about the Pledge and the Zaino and he said that they both sounded like they made sense. Since his store is accross the street from a department store he decided that he was going to go and buy the Pledge and give it a try. He said that he would call me tomorrow or sometime mid next week with some results. He also said that the microfiber towlette made sense to him as well.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2035
Registered: Dec-04
I have not been able to find either product in Canada at all.
Rather disparaiging as you all seem to have found the ideal combination.
It really sucks being the poor red-haired cousin sometimes.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8168
Registered: May-04


Nuck - You might try www.Pledge.com and ask about their Canadian products. http://www.scjbrands.com/contact/


 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8169
Registered: May-04


I didn't realize Finyl was still available.

Two "yeah, couldn't hurt"'s for Pledge and one for microfiber. It's nice to be so trusted.


 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2973
Registered: Feb-05
Huh!
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2039
Registered: Dec-04
In Deity we trust.
All others pay cash.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1268
Registered: Oct-04
Jan: Didn't think Finyl was still on the market, either, but at least you can get it in Canada. . .

http://www.uhfmag.com/Digital.html

Art: as you well know, I was touting the Viva towels "forever" to clean the CDs. Not anymore! These microfiber towels run rings around the Viva - and, unlike the Viva, I have yet to put any scratches on the CDS I've cleaned. I also tried an old T-shirt and some well-washed Terry towels - nope - nothing comes close to the microfiber or microfibre or micro fiber or whatever towels! Sorta like theatre and theater, I guess. . . .(grin)

Away to a last-minute editing of a Master's thesis, so may be offline for awhile. Will check in. . .but cash comes before fun, doncha know!! Yep.

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2043
Registered: Dec-04
Old T-shirts, too, Larry?
(scratch off list).
Thanks for the link, I shall follow it up.
Having y'all do the dirty work sure makes my end easier, keep it up and I may have to send Sugar Bush Candies.

PS The 1072 comes this afternoon, turns out to be a demo, guy had to explain it is in black, and I made a fuss.
$670USD.
And I wanted black.
Joy in Nuckville.
Ville de Nuck.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2044
Registered: Dec-04
I ordered the Finyl kit online, 40$can, 12.50(or something).USD.
I will start there, while narrowing down Johnson Wax products.
The entire idea of cleaning a readable surface seems quite viable, it is the eccentricies that I have brought into play.
Although, if you do it once, do it right, and thanks again for the info.
My wife is going to whip me for this, She is going to ride me like a rented mule.
We love the digs, and she likes the sound(low).
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8177
Registered: May-04


And the "forgiveness" part works well too, I assume.



Larry, I hope you're not editing a Master's in Theatre Arts. While often used interchangeably, my "Theatre" instructors informed me the European spelling should be used to denote the art of theatre; or the performance or study of the art form. Theater should refer to the building itself. Therefore theatre is performed inside the theater.


 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2056
Registered: Dec-04
The Canadian presentation is as follows:
The theatre presentation shall commence at 8 o'clock in the main theater.

Thank-you, lieutenant(pronounced lef-tenant).
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2057
Registered: Dec-04
Forgiveness, Jan?
The Eagles, Hell Freezes Over.

Even if, Even if, You don't love me anymore.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8186
Registered: May-04


Love you anymore? Nuck, how could I love you any less?sf


 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2067
Registered: Dec-04
Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark, Jan.
If you keep it up, I might send my new recording.
And THAT is a real threat.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2068
Registered: Dec-04
C'mon Jan, you and me in Cahoots, Alabama.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2069
Registered: Dec-04
Just outside of Hinderear, Alabama.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1269
Registered: Oct-04
Jan: taking a well-deserved break - maybe "brake?" - from my arduous task (the mope can't even spell, let alone write!) - I found your theatre/theater reference both refreshing and challenging.

I have, indeed, edited-polished-cleaned and nearly trashed several Theatre/Theater Arts grad school papers - and I've tried to go with whichever spelling the particular school uses. Doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason - just a spelling selected by the college/university in question.

The New York Times uses Theater - unless it's referring to plays in Canada or Britain, when it's always "theatre." And the "bible" I use with general writing is the U S News and World Report Style Book, which has served me fairly well.

There - it's theater, period. OK - maybe they don't write much in pure English vs. Amerukan? (grin)

I think, sir, that your teachers were on very sound ground - in their school. (then again, many schools have faculty who can't spell, either! GRIN)

Away to Sundowners, then dinner, then page 21 of this awful tome that makes Civil War history sound even duller than it did when I was in college! SIGH.

More anon. . .

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2974
Registered: Feb-05
Preliminary reports from Jim are positive. More on that later. Suffice it to say that he will be taking it home to use with his own personal system (Apogee speakers, Audio Research and various other esoteric electronics).

I cleaned one cd with it (Pledge) today...my preliminary report is good. Not aboslutely sure, perhaps Jan can add something, but it seemed that my speakers did a disappearing act like never before. I used it with my Nora Jones cd and her voice was huge and just dancing in mid air..quite wonderful. Must go, buying new dining room furniture.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8187
Registered: May-04


What's to add? It's either worth your effort or it's not. Trust your ears, Art. Try it on a mono recording, forget all the hifi crap and just listen to the music. If you don't have a mono recording go down to the used CD shop or the drugstore and get one for $1.98. Some Django Rheinhardt or Count Basie from the 1930's will be just perfect.

 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2975
Registered: Feb-05
I have a good number of mono recordings including ones by the artists you listed. I'll be posting my impressions and those of my friend Jim ,even if just briefly for those who are interested. For those who are not just skip to the next post.

Jan, it was the music that moved me. Since I put together this system it's been about the music and not the hifi. It's been refreshing to get back to what's important. I feel I lost that during my time with the NAD gear. With all of Rotel's faults, I always settled in for long listening sessions and just enjoyed the music. I feel like that never really happened with the NAD gear. I would likely never buy a piece of NAD gear again for that reason. I still believe that they make alot of good quality components (2 channel) but it just isn't for me. I will be recommending Rotel over NAD from here on in.

Thanks for the advice Jan. I have always trusted my ears, unfortunately I'm not always smart enough to listen to what they tell me.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2978
Registered: Feb-05
Disc #2 Patricia Barber "Nightclub" OMG!! OK, so it's the real deal. John A, it's for real. Time to buck up and toss out some cash (not much for Pledge and microfiber). Whovever said that it's somewhat like and upgrade in IC's is about right. Just imagine if I really upgraded the IC's.

Larry and Jan I hope you guys are happy now. How will I explain this to my coworkers who already think that my audio world is somewhat strange. The latest ritualistic tweak. In all honesty this is marvelous, thanks guys.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1271
Registered: Oct-04
Art: sometimes I feel so good that it must be illegal! (grin) Glad you are happy - so far - with the results. Now I can breathe again.

Back to the non-speller. . . .

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2980
Registered: Feb-05
I wasn't altogether correct in my earlier post about NAD. I will continue to recommend NAD with other NAD as they go well together. It has been my experience that Rotel and NAD together is not so good.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1272
Registered: Oct-04
Art: I've never understood that - it would seem to me that one amp or CD player should go with another of any brand. The difference in quality, it would seem to me, should be evident within each piece of gear.

Guess - as always - I'm missing something here...

Sorry. . .still busy.

G-nite all

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2083
Registered: Dec-04
Larry, you are correct, the pieces should fit together and play music, and they do so, mostly.

However, the matching of gear is a twisty path, wrought with pitfalls and pratfalls(thanks Chevy Chase).

Matching componants on a random basis will provide a random outcome, as compared to a well thought out, properly sorted system of componants.
I have spent about 30 years and 20 componants looking for the 'sound' I strive for.

I might be getting close.

The 'husbandry' of componants is critical for the perfection of the sound(IMHO), and when the parts work like a good hockey team, I hear it.

Your parts may be from other teams, other contries or other religeons, but can still work together.

Just play your favorite song(what is your favorite song, BTW)?,and you will know if all is right.

If not, approach the system with a clinical eye, or/and ask an outsider for opinions.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8192
Registered: May-04


One less silver bullet in my belt. Where's that damn horse?


 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 4098
Registered: Dec-03
I heard Tonto is now on the Atkins Diet.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2085
Registered: Dec-04
Silver Bullet?Atkins? Jay Silverheels?
If Nuck is confused, all must be right in the world.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8195
Registered: May-04


Atkins? Possibly, but he's addicted to McDonalds. Horse meat's too expensive for them.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1274
Registered: Oct-04
All Dawgs: Worked until 3 a.m. on "duh paper" and am about to begin again. Sigh. At least I don't have to worry about theatre/theater in this one - though the mope constantly refers to the Southern Cast System. Sigh. And he's not talking fishing!

Sooooo - I highlight and hit "change all" and it comes out "caste" after all. OK.

Jan: in a quick check of my computer files I find that most of the papers I've done both undergrad and grad are from schools/colleges of Business Administration or History - with very few "theater" papers - in fact, only three in the past four years.

I advertise in small college papers and writing journals - nothing "famous" about my work, for sure. But I find the private colleges have many students with more money than brains - and these are usually eager to get a "polished" paper or thesis at minimal effort.

What this has to do with stereo/audio - I have no idea! (grin)

But on the subject of matching audio components - well, this is another situation where I apparently come up lacking in ability to hear the nuances. I've heard "bad" CD players - but they'd probably sound "bad" on anything I hooked them up to - speakers, amps, etc.

Then again, I have not sat myself down for hours on end (yeah, pun intended) and did A-B-A-C-B comparisons. Instead, I'll keep reading what y'all have to say - and go with your recommendations.

And after his many deliberations, Jan will quickly tell y'all that, no matter what I choose, my listening room is at fault, and until that is corrected, well, nothing will sound great. Sigh.

Back to work - a dozen pages to go. . .

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1275
Registered: Oct-04
John, Jan, et al - quickly, before I return to the Civil War, one of the last music papers I "polished" was one about two years ago: "Down I Say: the Case Against 440." Referring to the concert-tuning "A" - as you well know. Had to agree with him - not that it matters to anybody? (grin)

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1276
Registered: Oct-04
Art: As I was rummaging about the I-net this eve, I happened upon a posting that urged people to clean the LABEL side of the CDs! Oh, no! Please DO NOT do that!

CDs are made in a "sandwich" - with polycarbonate on the outer playing side, inside of which is a sprayed-on aluminum reflective surface, and over which is sprayed an all-too-thin lacquer or lacquer-like surface. This - the label side - will NOT withstand cleaning, and might damage the aluminum layer underneath.

Words to the wise. Clean ONLY the playing side!! Whew - forgot to post that earlier.

Most people mistakenly think that CDs are a three-part sandwich, with polycarbonate on both outer surfaces. Nope - wish it was the case!!

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2986
Registered: Feb-05
Thanks for that post Larry. I ran across that post earlier this evening as well. I have been listening to my newly cleaned Jim Hall "Concierto" disc this evening. It sounds wonderful...best I've heard it in my system by a good distance. Also listened to the Takemitsu chamber music disc on Naxos (cleaned ofcourse)....quite wonderful. This is quite fun. I guess I'm going to have to get some little colored dots with adhesive on one side to place on the jewel cases of the cleaned discs. Frankly this is such a small investment in time and money it's amazing more of of us aren't doing it....hmm!
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1277
Registered: Oct-04
Art: Yes! I've been listening to the same Jim Hall CD, and enjoying it very much. Am getting quite a chuckle out of your ecstasy-cleaning, sir! (grin) I knew that it made a difference - but like some old country preacher, it's been hard getting "the message" received by other people. . .

And yes - Naxos puts out a worthy product! I've got dozens of them. . .

The dots make sense - may try it myself! Thanks.

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2988
Registered: Feb-05
Lo and behold there is a problem. As I was putting a cd back in it's jewel case the light from a lamp that I usually don't see the cd's by illuminated some interesting marks on one of the cleaned discs. I then looked at the other cleaned discs under that lamp and they all appeared to have some very tiny scratches on them. I then looked at other uncleaned cd's to make sure that this anomaly was related to the cleaning and it appears that it is. I'm not sure what to make of it. The cd's clearly sound better but what to make of the little marks. Perhaps I should look for a finer microfiber towel. I don't know.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1278
Registered: Oct-04
Art: I will often have similar "tiny" scratches on my CDs after cleaning. Don't know if Jan experiences the same. But I don't worry too much about them - and if they are a bother I use some Brasso to lightly buff them away.

Two points: Don't use the new towels before you wash them - and be sure to give them a shake or three before each disc-cleaning. The towels I use (from Sam's Club) don't scratch - usually!

Can't say much about the Pledge - but I do know that, with the Zaino, scratches are a rarity.

Though the polycarbonate on CDs is tough, it will scratch if you put too much pressure on the cleaning cloth. So much for my hints. . .(grin)

Glad to see somebody else is up - hope it's not because you have a hard time going to sleep, also, Art! But then - I forget - out where you are it's still evening, not morning!

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2989
Registered: Feb-05
I think that it may just require a different way of applying the cleaner and a better microfiber towel. I hope because the benefits of cleaning are certainly addictive. I will venture out tomorrow for supplies.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1279
Registered: Oct-04
Art: Good hunting - I'm glad to read that you're not giving up! I always look at my CDs under a desk light, before and after cleaning. In the past week, with the microfibre towels, I have encountered very few scratches, and those that appear are apparently too small to affect the laser pickup.

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1280
Registered: Oct-04
PS on "polishing" for Jan: Got an e-mail from Zaino stating that the Z-14 "polishes away some of the plastic to a depth of one or two molecules."

Well - I guess that meant that I am, indeed, "polishing" and not just "cleaning" my CDs, eh? Hmm. . . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2991
Registered: Feb-05
Perhaps there is a little Pledge in your future!!
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 518
Registered: Nov-05
Guess I wont be using the Zaino to many times on each CD. Yes, as I said before I have experienced some fine scratching with Viva (and the other paper towels), but then I may have been 'polishing' a bit too hard. Also, the tip about washing the microfibre towels came a bit late for me as well, as they too can put fine scratches on the plastic surface I've discovered - though not so bad to obsess about. Yet.

 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1281
Registered: Oct-04
MR - you should only have to apply the Zaino once - unless you find a CD that is badly smudged. Even then, just spritz once with the Z-6 and the disc will be clean! The Z-6 is NOT abrasive in any way.

Cleaned five CDs this morning - with a new microfiber towel and Z-14. NO scratches of any kind. I think it depends a lot on how hard you press when cleaning. I try to press just hard enough for the cloth to take off the residue.

I also think the towel-shaking is very important. Those micro towels will pick up any tiny bits of grit from desk or table - and then you've got a piece of one-grit sandpaper in your hands! Hmm. . .

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2104
Registered: Dec-04
I wonder if the towels want a more frequant laundering, and I wonder about the durability of them as well.
Are the micro-fibres going to break down?
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2993
Registered: Feb-05
More to be learned about this whole process. I have been cleaning under the light that I discoverd the scratching issue with. I no longer believe that they are scratches. It seems that it is residue which become more difficult to remove with time. If you remove it at the time of original cleaning (which takes more than just a casual wipe) then all seems to be well. Again I must say that the benefits are worth it. Jim stated that he believes that the antistatic nature of the fluid is what he thinks is at work here. Jeff stated that he uses a very inexpensive static removal device. He will get me the name next time he's around it. Perhaps there is a no touch way to get some of the benefits after the initial cleaning.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1285
Registered: Oct-04
Art: Sigh - wish I could be of more help here, but have yet to use the Pledge. And you may well be right - when I was still using "Vivid" I had occasion to note such disc problems. With the Zaino I DO find occasional microscopic scratches - but I don't think they are of any problem?

I "think" that you have to buff off the Pledge before it dries? I know that - even with the Zaino - if it dries, it is much harder to buff off - and that's when I get the scratches!

Microfibre/fiber towels are probably the most durable towel made - and they do not break down, except under extreme use. I use my towels - about 9 by 15 inches - on approximately a half-dozen CDs before I toss them in the wash. They might go much longer, but I want as little residue as possible on them when I clean the CDs. If you haven't actually used the micro towels, you won't understand their unique texture - which at first I thought was bad, but now I believe to be just plain excellent.

And yes, Art, the anti-static quality is of importance, which is why Rantz and I use the Z-6 after the Z-14. The Z-6 is a heavy-duty anti-static solution.

Art - what do you use to apply the Pledge? And do you buff/polish/clean right away, or let it dry a bit?

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1286
Registered: Oct-04
One add, please - Mer uses the micro towels in her fused glass classes - where they get rather punishing workouts. She's been using the same towels there for about eight months - and brings them home to wash every other week. So far, none of the towels shows wear, or exhibits any problem. I believe she has about 30 towels in her rotation schedule. And she says there's nothing better to clean the art glass.

Of course - for house or car windows - good old newspapers are simply the best. Use newspaper with any glass cleaner and you'll never use anything else. Sparkling - no residue - and cheap! LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2996
Registered: Feb-05
Larry I apply it directly. I just dribble a little on and remove with one part of towel and finish with another part of the towel.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1287
Registered: Oct-04
Art: You don't put it on the CD, do you? That may be your problem. Put it on the towel, then wipe onto the CD - direct application may, indeed, eat into the polycarbonate. Let me know, please. . .

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1288
Registered: Oct-04
Here's the generally-accepted method: spray the Pledge onto a soft towel. Gently wipe it onto the CD. Immediately buff it off with a second towel. I always keep the applicator and buffer towels separate - remember, these towels will pick up lint and grit.

Sigh - sorry if I sound "preachy" - really don't mean to.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1289
Registered: Oct-04
One add - I hope that Jan chimes in here - we need his personal experience. Remember - I use Zaino, and have not used Pledge myself. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8214
Registered: May-04


What do you want to know that hasn't already been covered several times? Sorry to sound weary of the subject but it seems unbelievable we can devote this much time to such a simple operation.




Firstly, I work under an overhead light so I can see better what effect I'm having on the disc surface. I apply the Pledge directly to the disc surface. In the case of Pledge, it requires substantial amounts more than the Vivid or Zaino products. Having used both those treatments, I would apply both of those products to the cleaning pad. One product suggests a damp pad while the other prefers a dry applicator. Experience is your best teacher here. Use enough to get the disc clean and allow the final steps of removing the product before it completely evaporates. Since Pledge has formaldehyde incorporated as an evaporant, it will be less effective if you apply it directly to the cleaning pad, though probably by a miniscule amount if you're working quickly. Apply and remove the cleaning material only in parallel strokes across the surface of the disc. Let the materials do the work. There is no need to apply any significant amount of pressure. If you scrub, you risk scratching. Particularly with the Pledge, it evaporates quickly rather than dries to a visible film. I find I can still "buff" the surface to an even higher gloss after the gross material has evaporated or been removed; but working efficiently usually gets the job done in a few strokes with each cloth/pad. Don't obsess. It would be better to do this in several light steps rather than one heavy application.



I use three cloths/pads to do my work. As Larry says, keep the work area clean as these cloths are damp and will pick up the slightest bit of dust when you lay them down. If you have any doubts place a clean sheet of wax/parchment paper or something similar next to your work area to lay the pads upon between use. Turn and clean or change out the pads regularly. The first pad is for cleaning the disc and in my case it is a cosmetic sponge which gets the job done. This does the work of removing any crud from the disc surface and this pad should be changed out regularly. I wash the pads with soap and water at the end of a cleaning session but they are cheap enough to throw away. I remove the rest of the Pledge, which has already begun to evaporate, with the velvet pad from the Finyl package. A microfibre towel would suffice, and has after the velvet pad gets too damp to work well, if I'm cleaning a batch of CD's from the library. I wipe the surface of the disc in several different directions and wipe specific areas at times. But I keep the strokes in straight lines across the disc surface. This is a benefit of the Finyl pad in this instance. It doesn't really allow any thing other than straight line strokes or, at the most, very shallow ovals. Then I finish with a very light wipe with the microfibre. If you remember the idea of polishing being a process of removing material, the final wipe with the cloth here should be quite light and quick, as if you are barely touching the disc surface and letting the amount of pressure suffice as the equivalent to the "finest grit" of the polishing process. The surface of the disc should look cleaner and more able to focus the overhead light when you are finished. (When we originally discussed this on Old Dogs last year, I was using an old athletic sock turned inside out for the "buffing" step. The microfibre does a much better final step but I never had any real problems with the terry material as long as the strokes were always kept light. Let the material do the work.)





Even if you find microscopic scratches they are of more concern to you than to the laser assembly, but only if they are straight lines across the disc's surface. There seems to be a variation in the polycarbonate material used by the various manufacturers and some scratch more easily than others. I had one batch of CD-R's that seemed to scratch quite easily. On the other hand the black Memorex CD-R's I often use have never scratched in the slightest. I suggest you practice on some less consequential discs in your collection and keep an eye on what you are doing. Micro Center here in town sells 100 CD-R's for $9.99. Something like this would give you plenty of practice before you set about rubbing anything on a precious disc.


Since I use the marking pen on the edge of any disc I clean, I always know what discs have been treated. The marking pen is the last step so as not to transfer any ink to the disc surface in the cleaning process. I suppose you could just place a dot on the jewel box with the pen. By that point I just don't care any longer, dotting the case is far, far too much work and it is such a pleasant surprise when I open a case to find a cleaned CD. Yippee!!!


I don't doubt the anti-static properties of any plastic cleaning solution play a part in the success of the operation where CD's are concerned. De-stating a CD has been a popular tweak for many years. However, I wouldn't say it is the major benefit of the cleaning process. Rather a welcome side effect. Due to the static charge which can be generated by plastics I don't doubt any plastic cleaner will have some anti-static properties to it. (Remember this static charge is drawing dust and crud to the surface of the disc as you are cleaning, anti-static treatment or not. A bit of dust caught on the edge of the disc while you are rubbing can easily be trasnfered to the disc surface by vigorous manipulation.) But looking at the surface of a clean disc, I would still put my money on removing the molds, oxidation and generic crud as the key to success with this whole affair.




 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1290
Registered: Oct-04
To all: Pay special attention to Jan's last two sentences. Aside from that - I'll stick to Zaino and leave the Pledge to y'all. I've got enough Z-14 to clean about 500 CDs now, so I might as well use it up! (grin)

Just one more note - I am finding much joy after cleaning, not my CDs, but my DVDs. Mer and I bought a "re-mastered" copy of one of our favorite movies the other day - and I watched a tad of it before cleaning, then right after cleaning. My, what a difference in picture quality! (the movie,BTW, is Clint Eastwood's "Pale Rider" - a great morality play)

Enough for now. . .

 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2998
Registered: Feb-05
"What do you want to know that hasn't already been covered several times? Sorry to sound weary of the subject but it seems unbelievable we can devote this much time to such a simple operation."

It may be simple but it's new to me and I appreciate all of the info I can get. Whether it be about the tiny scratches or whatever.

I worked directly under an overhead light and still did not see these marks until I worked under the halogen desk lamp that I have mounted on one of my bookcases. I even looked at the disc in the sunlight and it was jot visible. I rececommend working under the halogen lamp as it appears to be the most revealing.

Thanks for all of the information.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8218
Registered: May-04


If you hadn't noticed scratches that minute, possibly they were there before you did the polishing. Art, there's only so much information anyone can transmit by word. This is a process you learn by doing, just like dicing an onion or painting a landscape. A few knicked fingers and soiled sleeves are to be expected. The biomechanics of the operation come from learning the process on your own. I can only give you the basic guidelines as I use them. That is why I suggest you practice a bit on a few discs that are less valuable. (Don't volunteer to do the portrait of the dictator until you're pretty sure you can pull it off.) Though bothersome I would tell you any scratches which are as difficult to notice as those you mention will be of no consequence to the laser.




Unless they run along the track of the laser path.

Then you have done the process incorrectly.




Otherwise, don't stress here, Art. The process is worth the effort and the hearing is what matters. Even if you are "violating" the disc surface to the point of slightly visible scratches, you aren't hearing those effects; are you? You are hearing better sound quality. Correct? The rest is merely practice and learning curve.


 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8219
Registered: May-04


Where's Nuck when you need a "Don't worry - be happy!"?
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 520
Registered: Nov-05
Another question Larry: I purchased a set of three microfibre towels two of which are constructed like an ordinary terry bath towels but thinner material and with smaller, finer loops and these are the ones I have been using. The third microfibre towel that came in the package is a much finer (loopless) version similar (though heavier) to the ones supplied with spectacles. What sort do you use?
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 3001
Registered: Feb-05
I have been using the fine polishing cloths not the towels. They are very absorbant and leave nothing behind (sorry not Larry).
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8220
Registered: May-04


Art - I'm not sure what is happening with your discs. Have you decided the marks are scratches or are they residue? Residue should be able to be removed by another thin application of Pledge rather than trying to buff out the dry material. One problem I run into with Pledge is having a small "drop" of the material run over the edge of the disc as I clean with the sponge. It is still damp when I begin to remove the material on the disc surface and gets picked up by my cloth as I buff. This results in streaks which require special attention. They will evaporate on their own but might leave a mark. If you're paying attention you should notice this but it might account for what you are seeing if the scratches turned out to be residue.


But the miracle of science makes Pledge "self cleaning" so just spritz a bit more on the disc and clean up any residue. Is this a great country or what!?




 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 521
Registered: Nov-05
Thanks Art - I guess I just need to experiment (as Jan suggests) though the toweling-like cloths do seem to work okay. I did badly (subjective) scratch one CD though not enough to alter playback quality. This was caused by a contaminent I believe, so being wary of where the towels are placed and shaking them out thoroughly is obviously good advice.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2107
Registered: Dec-04
Don't worry-be happy.

Jan, I doubt that Art is stressing too much over the situation, just wishing to be fully informed.

In fact, I don't think Art stresses about anything unecessay, and that bodes well for his heart.
And possibly kidneys, Liver et al.

'I send my sinuses to Arizona,
I send my Liver to Peru, I send my lungs and my kidneys, for the weekends to Sydney, But I'm sending my heart to you'
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8222
Registered: May-04


Thanks, Nuck.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2119
Registered: Dec-04
Gratis to all.
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 575
Registered: Mar-04
George Carlin seems to come up occasionally around here....though always at the strangest times. :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1291
Registered: Oct-04
Ah, the towels. After cutting several in two, I looked closely, and saw this. Very fine loops on both sides, with the material run through a very thin layer in the middle which appears to be some sort of foam. Not sure, and the package doesn't describe it.

the loops are very small - perhaps a 32nd of an inch high? the material is very fine, but has a strange "almost sticky" quality about it - which at first put me off. but there is no real stickiness - and the towels do a magnificent job of cleaning. I don't have any of the thin, spectacle-cleaning ones to which you refer.

Reading all of the above, I realize that Mer and I were sitting back, enjoying "Shanghai Noon" on a friend's 57-inch Sony. We'd gone over with our cleaned DVD, and compared it A-B-A-B with his UNcleaned DVD - and the differences were so amazing that we nearly forgot to watch the movie! Brighter, more intense color, cleaner sound, much clearer picture, deeper blacks, and a wider sense of 3-D sound. Just plain great! (I'm cleaning his DVD tonight - will return it on the morrow)

Anybody who sends his sinuses to Arizona is in for a rude awakening - the pollution there is becoming so bad that some folk wear face masks. Once was a place for "clear, clean, dry air." Not anymore. . .

Rantz - if you've got scratches, go for the Brasso. Or if you have Wal-Mart (shudder) go to their jewelry department and get a polishing cloth. Has some sort of rouge or other polish in it. I believe they're red - but be sure to get the one for GOLD, not silver. Use the cloth on a throw-away CD first, until you get the hang of it. I think Brasso works better, but any port in a storm. . .

Ah, yes - Mer just came in with a new pack of towels, this time spelled "fiber," Jan! Anyway, they are used for "auto detailing," and are made by the company Hometex, in San Diego. Well - they're really made in China, but. . .

Package says 90-thousand microfibers per square inch - and they are 40 cm by 40 cm in size. They look like very fine-textured washcloths or hand towels. The instructions say to wash in warm soapy water - but NOT to use fabric softener or chlorine bleach. Tumble dry medium heat. Do not iron.
Package contains 18 - and Mer says she has two packages in rotation at the Art School.

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1292
Registered: Oct-04
All Dawgs: As I was writing the above I was receiving an e-mail from friend Verne, in LA. I'd quizzed him about the CD cleaning - and he says that he uses a makeup pad to apply his "glop," whatever it is - and he used to use paper towels to buff off - but now uses microfiber towels that his neighbor gives to him. The neighbor restores cars, and "details" them to a mirror finish. I must ask him if the neighbor uses Zaino - many auto club folk do.

The towels would appear to be looped, and not the thin eyeglass-type, which Verne claims will scratch the CDs. Hmm. . .

He agrees with Jan that the only "tiny" scratch to worry about is one that goes round and round, like the CD grooves. He calls the result a "hiccup" that will mess up your listening, for sure.

He uses Brasso to get rid of scratches - but he says some of his audio-buds use Colgate anti-stain toothpaste - which they claim works very well. I have not tried that. . .

LR

 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1293
Registered: Oct-04
Rantz, ARt, et al - what stores are you purchasing your towels from - and which department.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 3004
Registered: Feb-05
I am using the Microtex Micro Fiber Polishing Towels. The also made one with the loops for detailing. These are not quite as fine as the the ones used for glasses but not like the towels with loops. I appear to have a routine worked out. I am listening to the Naxos "Adventures of Mark Twain" film music and it sounds unbelievable. Can't wait to hear my "Red River" CD...but I'll have to as bedtime has arrived. Up at 4 a.m. in the morn. Hasta manana.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 522
Registered: Nov-05
I forget the brand name of the towels I am using, but they are for auto detailing and I bought them from Supa Cheap Auto Spares a retail store here and probably there too as most chain stores here are American owned.

Larry I have heard of the Brasso treatment before. As I read it one wipes a small amount lightly in a circular pattern over the scratched area and buffs off the dry remains with the radius of the disc. Let me know if you do that differently.

Also, this weekend I took off the banana plugs from my speaker connections, bare wired them (bi-wired), tightened all the speaker frames, played our cleaned cd's and presto: all these things added up to wonderfully satisfying sound and considering I'm using NAD gear something must be working, right?




 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 524
Registered: Nov-05
Duh! The towels have labels - they are Kenco brand, made in China, 70% polyester and 30% polyamide.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1294
Registered: Oct-04
Rantz: same towels that I use - just different brand, also China-made (where else these days?)

OK - on the Brasso, I basically do as you describe - put a dab on a Viva towel and run circles around the scratch, then try to wipe both across and down the length of the scratch. I really don't let it dry - just use a different towel to buff it off - but this time radially, from center to outer rim.

Does this "eliminate" the scratches? Well, sometimes yes, sometimes no - depending on their depth. Most of my scratches are very small, so I'd say that the Brasso makes 90% of them disappear, without any further scratching. Then, of course, I re-clean the disc with Z-14 - Z-6.

AH HAH, MY FRIEND! Your comments on speaker bare-wiring came just as friend Verne in LA was tweaking me - in hopes of helping me improve what he sees as "probably horrible sound" on my rig.

I mean - how does he dare label my sound "horrible" anyway?? (DOUBLE GRIN) Could be all the times I've birched and harped to him on the phone about my "tinny sound??" Hmm. . .

Anyway - he told me to dump the bananas, and then to cut off a little more of the speaker cable, scrape the bare wire lightly, and clean with alcohol. Then, he said: "slip the wire in the connector and tighten until you hear the wire scream a bit." Huh? Well, he said that I have to tighten until there's no chance of air getting between wire and connector - and that the tightening will essentially "weld" the wire to the connector. He claims that makes the electrons flow smoother - or something to that effect.

I'll be doing that later this morning - and will post my yeah or nays on the results. Sigh. I continually learn - I hope! (grin)

What do you mean "tightened the speaker frames?" You mean the liddle screws that hold the speakers onto the housing? If so, I'll try it - but I've never done that with any speaker - maybe it's time I did???

Respectfully. ..LarryR
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1295
Registered: Oct-04
Rantz: You're probably asleep - but here's what I did in the past hour.

Removed banana plugs from speaker wire - cleaned wire, put on some Walker Super Silver glop - inserted into binding posts - tightened until wire yelped.

Then I thought - why not do as many suggested "tweaks" as possible. Sooo - going on a hint from I believe Rick Barnes - I pooched the speaker wires up from the nylon carpet. Then I began speaker placement.

Put on a well-known piano trio CD - and moved the speakers out from the wall about 30 inches. Oooh, they didn't like that! Sorta screechy sound, and I quickly moved them back to within about nine inches (23 cm) out from the wall. They suddenly smoothed out, and the cello sounded more natural.

I think these 705 puppies do NOT want to be out in the middle of the room! Comments, please. . .

Well - do I hear a difference? Uh, that is, ummm, ah, I (here we go) "think" the sound may be a tad smoother and warmer. sigh. I'm afraid I must have lead, not gold, ears, Dawgs - for all these nuances to which you constantly refer seem to slide right by me. Geezer-hearing, I guess? (grin?)

Anyway - the sound MAY be smoother, but certainly is not any worse - at least now that the 705s are back near the wall. . .

My concern, however, is that there is a bit of bare copper wire sticking out just before the binding post, and that will surely corrode. . .don't know if that's an issue, as long as the contact point is sealed?

Sigh.

LR
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 3006
Registered: Feb-05
Larry, I bought my microfiber polishing towels at Fred Meyer in the automotive dept.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 526
Registered: Nov-05
I think we should begin a thread called "Audio Tweaks" so others might chime in and we can all learn a thing or two or laugh at a thing or two.

So I'll reply there.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 4107
Registered: Dec-03
Good move, My Rantz.

I have drafted several posts, here, but decided against.

This thread is surely a warning, to all of us. I am concerned that I, too, might have further, undetected, loose screws.

Best wishes.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paulfolbrecht

Post Number: 164
Registered: Dec-05
Ahem.

'Ello all. In London, working 13h days, no time for hi-fi. No hi-fi shops; no time for the web. But I'm happy to see all this life in my 'lil thread here and all the places it has gone.

I'll be ordering some zaino or pledge or both rsn.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 4108
Registered: Dec-03
Greetings, Paul. Good to hear from you. Sorry about the weather!
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 531
Registered: Nov-05
All work and no play . . . Paul!

John, nice to see you are taking responsibility for the weather, but you could be leaving yourself open to litigation. :-)

And John, it's the detected loose screws one needs to be concerned about. Cheers.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 4110
Registered: Dec-03
Cheers, MR. No it's the undetected ones that cause concern. I know about the others.

It's bit cold. here, for the time of year. But Spring is in the air.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8277
Registered: May-04


How's everyone doing with their CD cleaning?
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 3064
Registered: Feb-05
Fabulous Jan. The difference is so significant as to often leave me with my mouth open. I'm hearing many of my cd's as if for the first time. Awesome!
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8279
Registered: May-04


Art, any more scratching while cleaning? Old Dogs tend to do that.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 3065
Registered: Feb-05
Not really Jan. The marks that I first thought were scratches were simply residue which I was able to wipe off with a little more pressure with the towel. I have seen what I thought might be a scratch but the benefits so far outweigh any risks that I pay it no mind. Anyone who knows me, knows just how picky I am so for me to say that, it really has to be so. Back to work.....nose to the grindstone and all that good rot you know.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paulfolbrecht

Post Number: 169
Registered: Dec-05
I now have 2 cans of Pledge for Electronics but no suitable cloth. Have to see what I can get locally. Wouldn't any clean cotton cloth be Ok?
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 3069
Registered: Feb-05
Paul, we are using Pledge Multi Surface Clean and Dust Streak Free Anti-static Spray. I won't endorse the Pledge for electronics as I have not used it. Perhaps Jan can speak to it. As for your question, the microfiber works so well that I wouldn't use anything else.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 3070
Registered: Feb-05
PS - The spray we are using is non aerosol.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8281
Registered: May-04


PF - Give it a try with any soft cloth. I used to use an athletic sock turned inside out. The microfiber is a definite improvement in the look of the disc, though I can't speak to how much audible difference it makes. We are trying to get to the cleanest surface so I would try to find the microfiber. Any auto supply house should have something they sell for polishing your car.

I haven't tried the Pledge for Electronics. Somehow I remember noticing a difference between the PfE and the Clean and Dust when comparing the ingredients. I seem to remember the PfE containing alchohol. Try what you have on an older CD and see what you think.


 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 8282
Registered: May-04


I've hit the half priced CD shops lately and had plenty of discs to clean. After the Pledge treatment I've been using the Zaino Z-6 (with a clean cosmetic sponge) as a final step. I can't give any reports on the difference in sound quality with this step added, but the disc's surface takes on another level of clarity after the Zaino is applied and wiped with the microfiber. This seems a worthwhile step and I think I'll switch from the Pledge as an everyday cleaner to the Zaino as the product I wipe the disc with immediately before play. Though Pledge has always been advertised as a self cleaning, no build up product, the Zaino seems to be a more benign product for constant use.





 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 3071
Registered: Feb-05
Jan, do you clean each disc before every play? How often do you clean a disc?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Hifisoundguy

Post Number: 37
Registered: Aug-06
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=tweaks&n=97102&highlight=cd+cleaners&r =&session=
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 4049
Registered: Dec-04
Randy, you really need a life.
This died forever ago.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Dobyblue

St. Catharines, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 81
Registered: Oct-05
SACD not dead yet.
http://www.genesis-music.com/genesispr.htm

Press Information: London 7 November 2006

Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford of the iconic band Genesis unveiled the dates for their first tour in 15 years. Turn It On Again - the tour, will see the band play a series of stadium concerts in Europe in the summer of 2007. Kicking off in the Olympic Stadium, Helsinki on 11 June, the tour will hit twelve different European countries, ending in Rome on 14 July. At a Pan-European press conference staged today at London's exclusive Mayfair hotel and hosted by comedian and lifelong Genesis fan, David Baddiel, the band took questions from international media about their reasons for reforming and thoughts on the tour.

European tour promoter, John Giddings, commented:
"It is a privilege to work with one of the greatest rock bands of all time, and to see their musical talent together again onstage will be incredible. The live shows are as famous as their music."

The "Turn It On Again" tour will be travelling to all the biggest stadiums as it treks across Europe in 2007 through Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, Germany, France, Holland, UK, Monte Carlo and Italy. For all European tour dates, please go HERE.

Tickets will be on sale for UK dates on 24 November and for dates in Germany on 10 November. Other on-sale dates to be announced.

Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford will be joined on stage by long time Genesis sidemen, Chester Thompson on drums and Daryl Steurmer on guitar. Two of the world's greatest show technicians, award-winning lighting designer Patrick Woodroffe and acclaimed set designer Mark Fisher are working on plans for the 2007 Genesis tour.

Genesis have sold over 130 million albums, it is one of a small elite of British bands who have achieved global success and sustained it over four decades. Genesis was formed in 1966 by Tony Banks, Peter Gabriel, Mike Rutherford and Anthony Phillips, while still at school, but its most successful incarnation was the late 70's early 80's line-up of Phil Collins taking on lead vocals and sharing songwriting, with Rutherford and Banks. The Duke album topped the UK charts in 1980 with the hit single, Turn It On Again monopolising the airwaves. In 1987, Genesis played sold out stadium shows across the globe, including four consecutive Wembley Stadiums.

To coincide with the Genesis tour, EMI Records will be re-issuing 14 Genesis studio albums in three stages during 2007. All the releases will be SACD/DVD double disc sets featuring newly re-mastered 5.1 surround sound and stereo mixes. The release schedule is as follows:

March 2007: A Trick Of The Tail (1976), Wind & Wuthering (1977), ...And Then There Were Three...(1978), Duke (1980) Abacab (1981)

June/July 2007: Genesis(1983), Invisible Touch(1986), We Can't Dance (1991), Calling All Stations(1997)

Late 2007/Early 2008: Trespass (1970), Nursery Cryme (1971), Foxtrot (1972 ), Selling England By The Pound (1973), The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway(1974)
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