I had an 03 mazda protege and it system sounded awsome standard especially the bass. Thought id go better and upgrade the rear speakers with a set of kenwood 3way 300w speakers for $180. They sounded awful in terms of low range pretty much had no low range at all, turn the bass all the way up and you can jsut make out the low end music. All the poles are correct.
Thougth it was the head unit, replaced it with a kenwood double din 50wx4 and the rear speakers still sounded bad, bass wise. The front speakers are now sounding just as bad. My mate had a pioneer unit and speakers put in spent $250 for a combo and they sound great thougth it was a matching pair got a alpine amp to power the rear speakers and they still didint have strong bass as the stock, they were only louder, amp was in high pass and low frequency maxed. got subs and all good. My inlaws asked me to install a kenwood head unit in their car with stock speakers and the result was the same very little low end music. What seems to be the problem. I see other people with good sounding systems with low end. I must be doing something wrong. Pls help.
Not really, they cannot play a wide range of sound as they are a 1 way speaker, hence the upgrade. After the upgrade, had good highs and tweeter sound but the lows were pretty much not there, sounds like its lacking power or bass on the head unit need to be turned 50 percent more pass its full. Im thinking maybe the headunit/speakers are not matched to each others output. My mates cheap pioneer headunit and pioneer 200w speakers sold as a pair sounded good thats what gave me that conclusion and in many other aftermarket systems in peoples car whom dont use a sub/amp It is hard to explain but easier to show people in the car. cheers
Ok list the models of all the car audio stuff you have installed.. I would just like to review the manuals .. etc.. Anyways Kenwood speakers that Ive heard were not low end monsters either.
factory sytems are often designed to work "well" as they are, but use non standard impedances for the speakers, and proprietary enclosures and what not to get good midbass response from certain drivers (often the rears or doors) swapping out speakers rarely improves the factory audio system.
head units have about 8 to 12 watts per channel of RMS or continuous power per channel. The ratings of 50-60WPC are "peak" ratings, and are very misleading. The reality is, if you want good sound, and good low end, this is how you'll need to set up the car:
1. a decent head unit with 3 pair of RCA level pre-outs. (front, rear, sub) 2. a small two or four channel amplifier (depending on if you feel the need to have rear full range speakers) 3. a good pair of coaxial or component separates for the front, and if desired, a good pair of rear speakers. These will be driven by the 2/4 channel amplifier rated for around 45-75 watts RMS per channel. 4. either a self-amplified subwoofer, or a sub with an enclosure and a separate subwoofer amplifier (class D) rated for somewhere in the 500 watt range.
The woofer with amp will handle your bottom two octaves of sound (20-80Hz or so) and the front speakers will really handle most of your audio, so they need decent power from a separate amplifier to drive them and give them good range, and headroom. The head unit and amplifiers will provide any crossovers and filtering required to tune the system and dial it in properly, but that's basically the formula for a good audio system right there. Pretty affordable, not too hard to install, and good results.
6x9s aren't designed to provide bass, and theycertainly can't even provide good mid-bass without sufficient power from an amp. The front door speakers will tend to wash out or be drown out by the sub without proper power as well, and will distort fairly easily at moderate to high volumes if driven only by the head unit's own power.
simply said, a head unit's amplifer stage is a single IC, lacking a transofrmer for it's power supply, so it is not capable of delivering very much power in reality. This is why you will never see ANY ehad unit that can supply more than about 20-25 watts per channel of clean power at the absolute most.
Id love to provide the items numbers of my cars set up for ya Joe, however Its has been sold over a month now. The members of the family have increased and have got a van. From memory head unit - kenwood dpx-5030 speaker rear kenwood 300w 3 way around 06 model front stock amp for speakers cant remember but similar or the same as alpine mrp-130 how ever it is old like 8 years got tired of measly sound so got 2 image dynamic 12 inch dvc and a rockford 10001bd and that solved the issue lol couldve used a cap.
I would say reading from GlassWolfs post, this loss or low end would be expected from a speaker upgrade or a head unit upgrade and amps for the speakers would be needed to provide sound quality close to factory. Subs are overkill and bass is easily achieved, the low and mids from speakers are a type of quality I fancy and it for me is hard to make happen. Just a few questions left if you would kindly go over with me, 1 From stock will swapping out the head unit make the standard speakers sound worse in terms of low and mid range. 2 will shelf or door mounted speakers achieve better low and mids from an box, enclosed environment. 3 is it easier to achieve lows/mid from a 200wv2way speaker than a 300w 3way. 4. can that xtra tweeter in the 3 way speaker have 100 w extra output
Thanks lads I think i can put the bass ghost to rest
1) depends on the the equipment you place. 2) Car audio speakers are designed to work without an enclosure. 3) The size of the speaker is a hint (usually) on how the speaker will perform on lower frequencies. Also what are you driving the speakers with and what kind of installation you did can have an effect. The number of ways by itself is not an indicator of low end performance. 4) The extra tweeter has nothing to do with the power handling of the speaker.
Again the way you install and the equipment you choose is what determines the type of sound you get.
Could you elaborate a bit more on " the way you install" What things should I do to ensure a good install.
"The equiptment you choose" could you give me a tip on what sort of gear I should be looking at buying next time. is it a case of spend top dollar better sound, get a matching power rated system, have all the same branded stuff?
I did feel that these 2 causes are my problems especially the equiptment
1. replacing the radio with an aftermarket unit is very tricky with modern cars, as many use an entire audio system that is proprietary, using things such as speakers with individual amplifiers built into the speakers themselves, or separate amplifiers, and non-standard speaker impedances which render an aftermarket head unit all but useless without special adapters. The head unit won't really change the sound of the factory speakers, though. The speakers are what move the air, so the bigggest effect on that is either replacing the speakers themselves, or doing this, and adding power with an amplifier.
2. no. those foam shells are jjust to protect speakers from weather/the elements. door speakers are designed to function best in an "infinite baffle" affangement, where there is no enclosure behind them, or they are in an extremely large enclosure (the entire trunk for example) The only speakers that require an enclosure are subwoofers in general, as they require the acoustic suspension of an enclosure to prevent them from unloading, and use the air in the enclosure as a spring of sorts.
3. pay no attention to power ratings. all they tell you is how much heat the voice coil of the speaker can bear without physical damage. it does not tell you how much power the speaker requires to get loud, reach maximum volume, etc.. the only thing you need a power handling spec on a speaker for, is to help choose a proper amplifier, and even then, it's not a 1:1 ratio so you really need to know what you're doing. For more info on this, see http://caraudio.glasswolf.net/ and look at the "what is power handling" link under "speakers"
4. don't get dragged into the "more is better" mentality with how many ways a speaker has. The truth is, the best sounding full-range speakers of this type I've heard were typically 2-ways. All the 3-way adds is a "super tweeter" which in most cases is barely audible anyway. If you want a good pair of 6x9s with good low end/mid-bass response when properly powered, check out a pair of Alpine Type-R 2-way 6x9s. Alpine has some of the best midbass response I've found in a 6x9, although personally I despise non-round speakers entirely. They provide no acoustic advantage other than being able to cram more cone area into an otherwise limited space such as a package shelf, which is why they were invented for car manufacturers back in the 60s. A round speaker will be sonically superior if it is of appropriate cone area, and powered properly. That's why you rarely ever see a non-round driver in a high-end audio system, for car or home.
I believe what Joe meant about the install, is that speaker placement, and angle are vital to how the system will sound. That link I gave you above, under the same speaker section, has several articles on soundstage and imaging. Those will detail the importance of speaker positioning. Most car makers don't really care about a sound system, even when they sell you the "premium sound package." They put speakers where they can stuff them after the rest of the car has ben designed, as opposed to seeking out the best acoustic placement and design for the speakers. It's a large compromise on their part, which is why it is often best to put speakers in non-factory locations by using things like custom door panels, or fiberglassed pods that blend into the factory interior.
On a side note, Kenwood is one of my least favorite companies. Their gear isn;t very good, in sound or reliability. Sony is even worse. No offense intended, you didn't know, and these brands are often pushed hard, by large retail chains and big box stores, and even supposedly good on-line retailers like Crutchfield. The honest truth is, if you want good recommendations, ask someone who has a lot of experience, a good ear, and isn't on the payroll for any particular brands, like salesmen are. This sort of forum is an ideal place to ask, as long as you keep in mind that everyone has different feelings about most brands, and a vastly varying degree of experience and expertise. We generally come to a consensus, however, on what makes a good system design, and most brands regarding quality. Some things like speakers are to an extend, subjective as well, since every ear seems to interpret or hear speakers differently.
Thanks for ya help lads, there is more to it then meets the eye. Yes the salesman was selling me sony or kenwood as these were rated with a higher max output and in the average priced market. Thought they were good according to him. One of the kenwood speakers did after 2 years develop a scratching sound when turned up high.
I have not come across information such as what you guys have provided before. The local audio salesman provided limited assistance. makes me wonder why I didnt come here earlier
well, a sub does help a lot. it adds the bottom two octaves that door speakers just aren't designed to produce. they simply can't move enough air to do so, even if it's a small, self-powered sub that's just there for low end fill. having a sub in the car doesn't always mean earth shaking bass that you can hear 3 blocks away. My mother's car actually has a 10" sub added to her factory stereo system.. makes a big difference in the low end.
if you want some more good info on car audio, take a look at www.bcae1.com that site has everything you could ever want to learn on the topic. I wrote the papers on the first link I gave you on glasswolf.net, simply to answer questions that are commonly asked.
the buzzing in your kenwood is most likely a damaged voice coil. that happens when the amplifier (even if it's the one in your ehad unit) driving the speaker begins to clip, due to the inability to provide enough current, or the amp being pushed beyond it's abilities.. audible distortion is a sign of clipping. clipping is when the sine wave signal being sent from amp to speaker gets cut off at the peak and trough of the waveform, thereby sending DC current to the speaker instead of the typical AC of a sine wave. this DC current causes the speaker to excurt, and stay in place momentarily, generating heat across it's coil, which can damage the speaker.
a clean amplifier will usually help in preventing this sort of thing from happening, when it is properly installed, and dialed-in.
when you look at power output on a head unit, it's pretty meaningless, since all of them produce about the same 12 or 15 watts per channel (not max) The thing about power is this: to audibly double the volume, you need ten times the power put to the speaker, so the difference of 3 or 4 watts is really inaudible. double the power is a gain in volume of about +3dB, which is audible, but nowhere near double the volume. going from a 12 watt head unit to a 50 watt RMS amplifier though, is a big difference.. both in potential clean volume, and in clarity and overall responsiveness, as the amp has mroe reserve power for sudden peaks in demand.. double-bass drums, symbol crashes, and so forth.
Best scenario, with speakers in a car is that you usually put a filter on door speakers to block bass from them, so they don't "bottom out" and distort, trying to produce frequencies lower than they are capable of making at audible volumes. Those lower notes would then be handled by larger speakers designed to produce those notes. those larger speakers in turn, also have a filter or crossover, that prevents them from playing notes higher than they can play well, leaving those to the smaller midrange and tweeter speakers. It is very difficult, and expensive to make one speaker that can "do everything" and often, those kinds of speakers don't do it as well as several speakers together could do. You're more likely to see a point-source speaker (single driver) in a home audio situation than in a car. Cars just don't have an environment, due to size, reflective surfaces, and so forth, for such a setup to work.
'How you fit the speakers' My old car had newer bigger speakers fitted by its previous owner. I pulled off the panels to find he had not enlarged the holes, so the speaker drivers were sitting proud of the car's metal work. No wonder there was no bass (low end)!! I used a metal nibbler to enlarge the holes until the speakers fitted snugly up against the metal work of the doors and, hey presto - bass! I am often amazed at how such simple things are often overlooked by those with no acoustic engineering knowledge/experience! (Previous owner worked for an acoustic company too!! Go figure.)
Hi I'm fairly new to music systems and vehicles.I bought front and rear component speakers. I have a GMC 2500 truck 4 door. The front and rear are hertz speakers. The head unit is kenwood excelon. Amplifier for door speakers are 1000 watt hertz. And the 2-10" subs are lightning audio they are driven with a performane teknique 500 watt single coil. My problem is when I turn up the volume the component speakers I hear a high crackling. And some songs I played the bass doesn't hit hard. The 10" subs are wired for 2 channel, how can I make the crackling go away. And is subs wire right. Thank you .
Sorry for the late response, there are many reasons for that to happen:
You need to check your power grounds, power cables and all that, and check your gains on the amps with a proper method or using a DD-1. Check the battery voltage to stay above 13V when the vehicle is on at all times.
If the above didn't help I would start by turning off the sub amp, then I hope the speakers amp is 4 channel.
After listening to some of the other posts and your suggestions that it must only be the way mine are installed. Improving my 6x9 rear speakers was done by adding a slight encloser out of fibreglass as i felt the boot was too bit too big to make bass. Remember they are powered by a amp.
I did buy recently buy a 6.5 alpine components at the front like suggested and as i expected they sound terrible. That cant be right so I thought about my 6x9's and watched sound deadening examples of dynamat on youtube, I patched all the maintenance holes with cheap bubble wrap and double sided tape, removed the old plastic wheather seal which had big holes in it and sealing again with 1 big single wrap and man how they sound awesome now. crisp clean sound and great solid bass.
Not exactly dynamat but trying to prove the fact that sealing the door and creating a better encloser is whats causing the distortion when bass kicks in, never would have thougt of it. Dynamat would have been better by the way. So if you have power and dont know why they distort when bass kicks in try attempting to improve on its enclosure. from now on this is a must for consideration when i install a speaker.