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Active and Passive mids and highs

 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 830
Registered: Oct-10
I am trying to plan my next audio system, and I am thinking about going active. My sub amp will be a sundown SAE1200d. I am considering either the SAX-125.2 or the SAX-100.4, but I have a few questions. I gotta go, so will ask in next post...
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 831
Registered: Oct-10
So, sorry about that.....

SAX 125.2
SPECIFICATIONS:
2/1 Channel Bridgeable Class-AB Amplifier
MOSFET PWM Power Supply
Stable Into 4 Ohms Bridged or 2 Ohms Stereo Load
12dB Octave Electronic Crossover Slope
Variable Subsonic Filter
High Pass Filter Variable with x 10 Range Selectable Switch
Low Pass Filter Variable with x 10 Range Selectable Switch
HPF/FULL/LPF Selectable Switch
Variable Bass Boost Control
Variable Bass-Boost Frequency Control
Variable Input Level Control
Input Sensitivity : 200mV ~ 6V
Subsonic Filter : 10Hz ~ 500Hz
Signal Input and Line Out RCA Connectors
Multi-Way Protection circuitry (Thermal/Over Current/Speaker Short/Speaker DC protection)
Tested Voltage & THD: 14.4V & Less than 0.05% THD
Operating Voltage : DC10V~16V Power Input
Wired Remote Controller
MSRP $349 USD

PRODUCT MANUAL
Rated power output
----RMS power, 4 ohm stereo
125W x 2CH
----RMS power, 2 ohm stereo
200W x 2CH
----RMS power, 4 ohm bridged
400W x 1CH
Signal to Noise Ratio >90dB
Low pass frequency crossover 50Hz ~ 5KHz
High Pass Crossover 30Hz ~ 3KHz
Variable Subsonic Filter 10Hz to 500Hz
Bass Boost 0~18dB
Variable Bass-Boost Frequency Control 35Hz to 120Hz
Frequency Response 10Hz ~ 40KHz (+/-1dB)
THD@RMS Watts <0.1%
Channel Separation 75dB



..............SAX 100.4..............
The SAX-100.4 is built to the same exacting standards as the SAX-125.2 but adds another set of channels and more advanced crossovers. It's flexible crossovers allow the user to run a 2-way active speaker setup with no external processing. It packs enough punch that one could also run a set of front speakers with one pair of channels and a subwoofer, bridged, on the other pair of channels for use as a total system amplifier where high power is not required.

The latest "D" revision features industry leading crossover flexibility even more advanced than prior versions and also features and upgraded power supply section for more power and enhanced longevity.

SPECIFICATIONS:

4/3/2 Channel Bridgeable Class-AB Amplifier
MOSFET PWM Power Supply
Stable Into 4 Ohms Bridged or 2 Ohms Stereo Load
Variable Subsonic Filter
Independent 1/2 and 3/4 Channel High Pass Filter Variable
with x 10 Range Selectable Switch
Independent 1/2 and 3/4 Channel Low Pass Filter Variable
with x 10 Range Selectable Switch
HPF/FULL/LPF Selectable Switch
Independent 1/2 and 3/4 Channel Electronic Crossover Slope Selectable
Switch with 12dB and 24dB Octave
Variable Input Level Control
Input Sensitivity : 200mV ~ 6V
Subsonic Filter : 10Hz ~ 500Hz
Signal Input and Line Out RCA Connectors
Multi-Way Protection circuitry (Thermal/Over Current/Speaker Short/Speaker DC protection)
Tested Voltage & THD: 14.4V & Less than 0.05% THD
Operating Voltage : DC10V~16V Power Input
Wired Remote Controller
MSRP $549 USD

PRODUCT MANUAL
Rated power output
----RMS power, 4 ohm stereo
100W x 4CH
----RMS power, 2 ohm stereo
160W x 4CH
----RMS power, 4 ohm bridged
320W x 2CH
Signal to Noise Ratio >90dB
Low pass frequency crossover


50Hz~5kHz (CH1&2)
50Hz~5KHz (CH3&4)
(50-500 with x10 switch)
Selectable 12 or 24 dB slope

High Pass Crossover



50Hz~5kHz (CH1&2)
50Hz~5kHz (CH3&4)
(50-500 with x10 switch)
Selectable 12 or 24 dB slope

Variable Subsonic Filter 10Hz to 500Hz
Frequency Response 10Hz ~ 40KHz (+/-1dB)
Bass Boost 0~18dB
Variable Bass-Boost Frequency Control 35Hz to 120Hz
THD@RMS Watts <0.1%
Channel Separation 75dB
Fuse Rating 30A x 3
Input Sensitivity Variable 200mV~6V (+/- 5%)
Dimensions 252(W) x 58(H) x 480(L)mm
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1495
Registered: May-09
It's kind of a waste to connect a tweeter to a 100W channel but it will do the job, mids to the other set of channels and set the crossover frequency to that of the passive crossover you are taking out. (all that if I am understanding right what you are wanting to do).
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 832
Registered: Oct-10
I can run signal from HU to sub amp, then from sub amp to the 125.2. Then can i power (4) component speakers with this amp? It says 125 x 2 @ 4 ohms, so i guess the speakers will hafta be 2 ohm? And the components have their own crossovers i can use, so no need in going active. Does this sound good?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14677
Registered: Dec-03
your component sets will be 4 ohm loads, most likely. I've only seen one or two component sets for cars that aren't 4 ohms.

That being said, if you wire both identical pair of component sets in parallel to the 2 channel amp, then yes, each speaker in the conglomeration will get 125W.

This will work just fine as long as both component sets you plan to use are identical.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 833
Registered: Oct-10
Glass, are u saying that each pair needs to be identical, but 1 pair can be different than the other pair?

The reason i ask is because i'm concerned about midbass. The sub will be a solo-x 18" in a geo metro. Do u think 6.25"s will give me proper midbass?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14679
Registered: Dec-03
If it was me, I'd just go with a 3-way component set instead of two sets of 2-ways. Then you'd get a 7" or 8" midbass driver, a midrange, and a tweeter on each side of the car.

Incidentally, that's how my car is set up.
3-way front stage, single sub in back, two amplifiers (one for fronts, one for sub) and the head unit. Simple, concise, and clean.

What I meant with the 2 sets of 2-way separates is that to run them in parallel, to get a 2 ohm load, you'd need two identical component sets, like two pair of Focal Polyglass 6.5" separates, for example.
If the drivers and crossovers aren't identical, putting them in parallel won't drop the load to the amp, or at least not evenly. For two speakers wired in parallel to halve the load to the amplifier, they need to be the same speaker, producing the same signal at the same time.. in other words, moving in unison. If the crossover points are different, or the electrical composition of each speaker is different, it doesn't work.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1498
Registered: May-09
You can add serious midbass with these:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-100

Two each side for a 4 ohm load.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 570
Registered: Oct-10
I heard that ____ Neo 6.5" mids are components that do a good job of midbass too, two in one.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 834
Registered: Oct-10
Yes, I considered the sundown 6.5 neo, but.....i dunnno


Space is a huge issue, as you could probably imagine. The factory speaks in front doors are 5.25"s I think. I could probably squeeze some 6.5"s in there, so we will go with that. The rear speaks were never there, but the hole for them is 5.25" wide at the narrowest point. So the rear speaks will not be very big. I will not be able to fit 7" speaks or 8" speaks in door.

There are 2 scenarios I'm considering:

1) Put some sweet 6.5 comps in front door, some sweet 5.25s in rear all running from the 100.4 and call it quits.

2) Put some sweet 5.25" comps in front doors (possibly 6.25"s), Then put (1) 8" driver in the rear floorboard in a dedicated box. (sundown SA v.2 ??). All running off of the 100.4 active.

My problem with setup #2 is.... Its more expensive and complicated. Also, will it even be necessary to have a midbass driver with sweet comps in a good install??

3) I guess I could run the comps off the HU and the 8" off a small amp if money gets tight.....
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 835
Registered: Oct-10
i have pretty much decided on the 100.4 though....for headroom and whatnot
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1499
Registered: May-09
6x9s can act as midbass drivers bandpassed on the 50-180Hz range installed on the rear if you really want to keep it below $100, I wouldn't get 5 1/4 components, with some work, you can almost always fit 6 1/2s, much better.

With the four channel amp you can power a set of midbass drivers and a set of comps perfectly, just pick speakers rated above 100W.

Usually you will set the first crossover point with the HU say 50-60 Hz and the second with the 4 channel amp crossover set to 120-180Hz.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 836
Registered: Oct-10
The rear will not fit larger than 5.25 and if i put bigger back there, it will be (1) 8".
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14680
Registered: Dec-03
I don't generally like putting speakers in the front doors anyway. kick pods are much better for a number of reasons.

If you have plenty of power going to the front stage, 6.5" mids should be fine if you filter them high pass at 80Hz, 12dB slope, and cross your sub at 50Hz LP, 18dB slope. The gap will be filled by the sub and mids by their respective roll-off.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 837
Registered: Oct-10
Could you suggest some good comps that wont break the bank?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14682
Registered: Dec-03
what's your budget?
what are your listening tastes?
do you prefer a more aggressive or more laid back, smoother sound?

If you want an affordable, all around good speaker, look at Alpine's Type R line.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 838
Registered: Oct-10
Budget: certainly no more than $100/pair. The cheaper the better though!
I listen to all types of music, from screwed and chopped gangsta to conway twitty, CCR, metallica, korn, and whoever sings all that new rock these days. I'm not sure what the difference is between laid back or aggressive sound, but i would prolly say laid back, crisp, clear instrumentals and vocals....i dunno.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 839
Registered: Oct-10
I would like a set that go down to 45-50 hz. Gently used is fine
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1503
Registered: May-09
6.5s rarely have significant output below 60-70Hz. Some Polk Audio/ Pioneers 6 3/4"can archive that but 45Hz maybe 6x9s.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 840
Registered: Oct-10
I forgot what speaks they were, but i've seeen 2 or 3 whose specs stated 45 or 50. But yeah, prolly barely aaudible.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14685
Registered: Dec-03
sure they state that, but at what roll off? They probably do 45-50Hz at like -18dB.

alpine type R 6.5" separates will be around $100/set, and should do well for you. Your budget is at the bottom end of "decent" for speakers. Anything much under $100 is just in the "OE stock replacement" catagory. If you want performers, consider the $150-250 range to start.
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