Need help wiring my system

 

New member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 4
Registered: Oct-11
Hi, am a new member and I'm hoping if someone could help me wire my system. I'm getting all confused with all the options and i don't know which option could offer me the best SQ my system has to offer.
I have a 2011 ford fiesta hatch with 6 speakers.
And this are my equipment:
1. stock head unit
2. clarion XR 2410 ( 60x4@4 ohms; 90x4@2 ohms; 100x2@4 ohms) accepts both RCA and speaker inputs.
3. Morel maximo 90 watts RMS
4. Boston acoustics SE65RC 35 watts RMS
5. Bazooka BTA 6100 ( amplified sub)

Here are my options: bridge
Option 1
From head unit front speaker wire - to amp 1 and 2 channel bridge using speaker input- to left front component speakers 3 and 4 channel bridge to right front component speakers.

From head unit rear speaker wire - to amplified sub.

Option 2
From head unit front speaker wire - to amp 1 and 2 channel bridge using speaker input- to left front component speakers 3 and 4 channel bridge to right front component speakers.

From head unit rear speaker wire- to rear coaxial speaker - tap the amplified on the rear speaker wires.

Option 3
From the head unit front and rear speaker wire -(using speaker input to amp) 1 and 2 channel to front component speakers. 3 and 4 channel to rear coaxial speakers.
And tap amplified sub on the head unit front speaker wire - between the head unit and the amplifier.

Option 4 (2 channel mode; both high pass)
From head unit front speaker wire- to amp 1 and 2 channel - front component speakers- 3 and 4 channel to coaxial speakers.

From the head unit rear speaker wire- to the amplified sub.

Option 5
From the head unit front speaker wire -to amp 1 and 2 channel - to front component speakers
From the head unit rear speaker wires- to coaxial speakers- and tap the sub on rear speaker wires.

Please help which among all the options would give me the best SQ. Or if anyone could give me the 1 and best option that my system could probably give. Thank you.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 572
Registered: May-09
Welcome to Ecoustics.

Ok, stock head units can't directly interface to aftermarket amplifiers so you need a line level converter such as this:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_18563_Hifonics-Maxxsonics-MX-4.html

Or cheaper, this:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4806_PAC-OEM-2.html

For sound quality don't use any stock speakers. so you have a Morel component set and a pair of boston coaxes.

After the line level converter I would put this:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6655_Clarion-EQS746.html

That will give you 3 RCA sets: front, rear, subwoofer.

So,

Place the Morel components on your front doors and connect them to the front channel of the amplifier, use the front output of the EQ.

Place the Bostons on the back and connect them to the rear channel of the amp, use the rear output of the EQ.

Connect the bass tube to the sub output of the EQ.

You are all done.

BUT wait: it would be much better to use an aftermarket HU the good ones have all outputs built in and no line level converter is needed, furthermore sound quality will be 10 times better than the stock head unit.

By the way you don't need to open 3 threads.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 576
Registered: May-09
Sorry I missed that the clarion can take high level inputs, regardless, the first of the line level converters I advised will do a better job, and using the EQ to provide signal to the rest of the system is best for SQ, of course there is some cost involved.

Overall I would recommend placing an aftermarket HU, that will be a real step up in SQ. Only keep the stock HU if really necessary.
 

New member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 5
Registered: Oct-11
Sorry for posting 3 times. My computer being so slow did not realize that i was able to send my message.
Regarding the head unit i cannot change it, because i have an integrated head unit and none for sale for the 2011 ford fiesta. Dont they sell high level input EQ to RCA. Really want to get away using converters
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 578
Registered: May-09
Ok if you just want a way to hook up what you have, then connect the front and rear channels of the head unit to the amp, also connect the rear channel of the head unit to the bass tube high level inputs.

I would still recommend to place the Morels on the front doors and the Bostons on the back, power them with the front, rear channels of the amp respectively, set both crossovers to HPF and set frequency to 60Hz on both, 60 Hz and lower will be handled by the bass tube. To preserve sound quality do not power any stock speakers you may have.

I think that's it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 580
Registered: May-09
I was just forgetting something, if you have a power antenna you should connect that signal to the remote-on signal of the amp, if you don't you should connect the remote-on to the ignition switched +12V signal, that way the amp will stay on only when your car is on.
 

New member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 7
Registered: Oct-11
That means i will be taping on the head unit rear speaker wires using high level input to the sub, between the head unit and the amp? Thank you so much for helping out.
 

New member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 8
Registered: Oct-11
If I decide to get the EQ and the LOC will it make a lot of difference?
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 583
Registered: May-09
If you want fader you should route the front speaker wires to the front channel HL inputs on the amp and the same for the rear channel but with those you should then continue on to the HL inputs of the bass tube.

Yes I suggested that setup thinking that you were aiming for best possible SQ, anyways I guess you could try to connect as you plan and see if it is good enough, and if not rewire as I suggested, one thing nice about that EQ is that will let you bypass the HU altogether with its auxiliary input and connect an iPod or other higher quality audio device straight to the amp/bass tube.
 

New member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 9
Registered: Oct-11
Im thinking of the EQ. In the EQ if i set my amp HPF to 60Hz for my component and coaxial speakers. What frequency should i set my sub (sub frequency response 39-85Hz). The EQ has a low pass of 60 or 90Hz. Thank you , thank you.
 

New member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 10
Registered: Oct-11
Would i need a 4 ch LOC or a 2 ch LOC if i use the EQ?
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 584
Registered: May-09
The EQ integrates coordinated 18dB/octave HPF and LPF just set at 60Hz. You can disengage all filters on the amp as the incoming signal is already high passed, the signal sent to the bass tube will be already low passed.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 585
Registered: May-09
Only 2 channel, you can then fader from the EQ. Bass level can be also independently controlled from the panel and is not fader dependant.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 11
Registered: Oct-11
A friend is giving me a raptor LOC but its 4 channel. Is this a good brand? Can i only use the 2 channels of the LOC or do i really need to use 4 channels in order for it to work? Please forgive me with my questions.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 586
Registered: May-09
I guess that this is the device you are talking about:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001FE7MCO

I don't think that is a low distortion device, honestly. Of course you could try it and see if it's good enough for you before buying something better. Yes you can wire only the 2 channels that you need that is not a problem.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 12
Registered: Oct-11
Yes, that is the same item. Hope this works and that is really what i'm afraid of getting annoying whining noises. Thanks for the help
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 590
Registered: May-09
Carlos to prevent noises and other problems you need to install properly your equipment regardless of the sort of installation you will attempt. You need an amplifier wiring kit (4 gauge if possible) and a proper installation procedure such as this:

http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/learningcenter/car/amplifier_ installation_guide.html
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 13
Registered: Oct-11
Thanks so much for the info. By the way i got the EQ already, I'll just have to wait until it gets to my country and that is 3 long weeks. By the way, what is the process of adjusting the gain control of the LOC? Do you adjust it by the wattage of the head unit? Lets say if my stock head unit is 8-10 watts/ channel and the LOC accepts max of 60 watts. that means i should put the gain of the LOC somewhere at 10 watts?
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 593
Registered: May-09
I couldn't find a manual for that LOC but usually they have 2 knobs, the purpose of those knobs is avoid distortion and reduce noise.

You usually turn the volume knob on the head unit to the maximum level that won't produce distortion, that is a pretty high voltage, 30-40 volts, then the input knob is leveled below you hear distortion on the RCAs output, then the second knob protects the amplifier or in this case the EQ from receiving too much voltage so you start low until about 4-5 volts input level to the EQ and then the LOC is all set. When you need to actually set it up I can give you a more detailed procedure.

To advance some information you need to find out if that LOC generates a turn-on signal that both the EQ and The amp and I guess the bass tube needs, if that LOC does not generate that signal then it must be taken from somewhere in your car, either the power antenna cable on the HU or the ignition signal, you may try to find that information so when is time to install you will know what to do.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 14
Registered: Oct-11
Ok, will try to see if it has the remote turn- on wire. Here is a website that teaches how to adjust LOC gain. http://www.ehow.com/how_5076523_connect-stereo-line-out-converter.html
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 15
Registered: Oct-11
Regarding the LOC. It has a remote turn on wire which i connect to the remote turn on wire of the head unit.
By the way how do i install the LOC can i just tap it on the speaker wires of the head unit and not totally cut off the stock speaker wire? And put electrical tape at the end of the wire where its attached to the speakers. I was just thinking that maybe if i decide to put back the stock system, at least the wires are intact. But if i really need to cut them to prevent noise then i have no choice.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 596
Registered: May-09
Carlos as before I don't have a manual but got a big pic of the LOC and I am pretty sure it's a passive LOC, it does not have input gain controls, only 4 output gains, so as far as I can see it can't have a remote-on output (a manual could prove me wrong), so I guess you will have to find a signal.

In regards to your other question, depending on the type of connectors you have a solution can be found to avoid cutting the stock wires, normally male spades are used in speakers so in that case you could get this:

Upload
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 16
Registered: Oct-11
Ya, your right. I just hope it works the same way as the active ones. Thanks for all the advice, you have been very helpful. Now i just have to wait for the EQ so i could start my installation.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 603
Registered: May-09
No problem carlos, I would suggest to read on how to install everything before you actually do, the component set is particularly hard to install in a way that sounds right. In SQ 50% of the end result is the install.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 17
Registered: Oct-11
ok, that will be my assignment. Just received my audio technix deadener. Heard good reviews about them. Thanks again.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 606
Registered: May-09
Ok, let me know if you have any questions.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 18
Registered: Oct-11
thank you so much
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 19
Registered: Oct-11
Hi joe, can i bother you again. I'm having mixed feelings about the Raptor LOC. Will it really make a lot of difference in sound quality if i use the MX-4 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_18563_Hifonics-Maxxsonics-MX-4.html
Or
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33576_Cache-CLOC-D.html
Or
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_161LC2I/AudioControl-LC2i.html

If you rate the three items which would be your 1st and 2nd choice for my set-up ?
Seems the cache is nice also, same price range as the MX-4. Audio control is a well known brand in my country but find it a bit expensive.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 625
Registered: May-09
No problem Carlos, I have reviewed the manual for the MX-4 and do not specify if it's full range stereo so I would not recommend it.

This one YES its low distortion full range.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33576_Cache-CLOC-D.html

The audiocontrol is as expensive as an entry level aftermarket HU, generates it's own turn on signal, remains an option if you can't find a proper turn on signal.

I would probably wire the raptor first since you already have it, you could like the results.. but remember that the EQ gives you direct access to the amps through AUX so bring in a portable audio player and you will get superior SQ LOC or not.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 20
Registered: Oct-11
ok thanks again. Then will try the raptor first before buying anything and wait for another 3 weeks to get to my country. Your such a big help. thanks Joe.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 21
Registered: Oct-11
By the way the cache CLOC+d generates it's own turn on signal also. http://www.cacheaudio.com/cloc+d.html . Thanks a million
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 632
Registered: May-09
Yes, I did check the Audiocontrol, better since it's so expensive, when I first mentioned standalone LOCs I didn't even considered any devices above $50, it's a lot of money:

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_27459_Kenwood_KDC-108.aspx

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33009_MB-Quart-ONX302.html

I would still consider upgrading to the Cache if:

1) you find that your stock HU has pretty good sound quality and therefore a SQ LOC is justifiable.
2) the stock HU do not have a power antenna signal or you just don't want to disassemble to look and get the signal.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 22
Registered: Oct-11
Could not sleep thinking about it last night so i decided to get the cache. Paid a little more for faster shipment so i could install my system soon. I also want to avoid disassembling and assembling my car twice if to avoid scratches, rattles or maybe breaking some plastic parts.
And yes my stock head unit does not have a power antenna but it has a car radio accessory switch, i guess i have to tap the remote-on from there. I wonder if i only tap the cache on the speaker wires and not use the remote turn-on wire, will it create a thump when i turn-on my head unit? If i could avoid opening the dash i would but if it will create some sound i will open it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 636
Registered: May-09
Ok Carlos I guess you are serious about getting the most out of that stock HU, better stuff is better stuff, you won't regret that choice, your wallet may .

No It will not thump, that usually happens when a device turn on the amplifiers before the electronics on the HU initializes, then a thump appears, but the LOC will listen the line and if there is a signal on the speakers, then it will turn on a couple of seconds later.

When I anticipate issues in an install I usually wire all the system physically uninstalled to make sure that everything will work as expected before I actually install. The same goes when I install a front stage, tweeter placement is critical, so before I choose a location for them I use some tape to temporarily place them in different locations until I find the best spot, and then I do a permanent install. So anticipating issues is the best way to keep yourself away from trouble.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 23
Registered: Oct-11
Ya, my wallet is ok but my credit card has reached its limit. Wanted to change the head unit but i cant since, its integrated on the dash. So i just want to maximize what's in the stock HU. Besides i also want to retain the stock look.

So if i can tap the cache from the speakers wires and not remove my dash. That means i could install the remote-on of the EQ and the amplifier to the remote output of the cache? That means 2 remote turn on wires will be wired to the cache remote output terminal. Will this work?

About tweeter location i was thinking of the stock kick panels because its closes to the woofer and the maximo tweeters comes with a surface mount that i could angle it to face the passenger side and same way as the driver side. But before permanently installing it, i will try to move it around the car for best staging.

Wow! I'm glad to hear that you also install, now i know I'm talking to a real expert. Thank you Joe
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 644
Registered: May-09
Fair enough Carlos. You only need to find +12 (ignition switched / permanent) and get the both front speakers wires into the LOC, the turn on signal will go into the EQ, and in the back the amp and the bass tube (not a problem), probably you won't need to disassemble the dash this way. Just mount both under the dash.

Regarding the components the only thing I can say is that SQ depends on them, the locations you suggest seem nice and usually work but experimenting locations could maybe get you something better, every car is different.

And lastly I hope you don't like too much bass as that bass tube won't really pound.

I would very much like that our "old boys" would step in with some suggestions but it seems they haven't been taking their vitamins lately.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 24
Registered: Oct-11
That's great news that i don't need to dismantle the dash. Regarding the bass tube I'm happy how it sounds now. It could shake the rear view mirrors and also the side mirrors. Its not a head turner, but your happy inside the car and it filled up the music and still i have a lot of baggage space. But i hope, I'd gain a little more bass because of the cache and the EQ. The only thing I'm worried about is that, the bass tube manual says, that they prefer using speaker (high) level input over the (low) RCA outputs due to insufficient voltage output. But hopefully with the cache and the EQ, it could give out the intended power to boost the bass tube. A little bass would be great, the bass i have now I'm happy. I just hope it wont lessen with the new set-up and i just hope that my component speakers wont over power (sound) the bass. I just want natural and balance music.

I also wonder that, why the old boys never bothered to give some suggestions. Maybe they find my questions boring and the set-up so basic and low range. But thanks Joe, you made one person real happy and excited with his set-up. Thank you
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 653
Registered: May-09
No problems with the RCA "low" level The EQ's output voltage can go straight up to 7V which is so high that basically no HU can match that. Check page 14:

Clarion EQS746 Manual

So let me know if you have any questions, and don't buy that your project is too simple it's just hard to type with arthitis..lol.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 25
Registered: Oct-11
Thats another great news. Cant wait for my orders to arrive. Now i even have the manual in advance. Thanks for everything.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 28
Registered: Oct-11
Forgive me, need to ask another question. Now that i have the EQ should i still set the amps crossover to HP 60Hz or set it on full range? For the sub, i know its still going to be 60Hz on the EQ to lessen the vocals that comes out from the sub. Thanks
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 664
Registered: May-09
You are welcome to ask Carlos, on the amp X-OVER MODE = OFF, BASS BOOST = OFF in both channel sets (so yes, full range), on the bass tube just set the knob all the way up (I believe it's 85Hz) it doesn't make a difference, the incoming signals from the EQ are already hi-passed and low-passed at 60Hz respectively. It will sound natural that way.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Chofilena

Iloilo, Iloilo Philippines

Post Number: 29
Registered: Oct-11
So far I think i have all the know-how to set-up my system. Thanks to you again.
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