New to sub/amp installatation

 

New member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-11
so i recently bought an second hand 800W pioneer sub (which i was informed worked perfectly) and to go with it a 2 channel (500w X2 bridgeable) pyramid amp. Did all the wiring myself and was able to get the sub working HOWEVER, it is really really quiet.
So i played around with the settings on my head unit and on the amp with little results. To add to the problems the fuse keeps blowing after running it for about 10 minutes.
any suggestions??
Cheers Bill
 

Gold Member
Username: Kaerfpl

Spencerport, NY USA

Post Number: 1376
Registered: Jun-06
Hey Bill, can you post the Model # of the Subwoofer and Amplifier that you have?

Thanks!
 

New member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 2
Registered: Sep-11
Amp: Pyramid PB715X 2 Channel 1000W

Sub: Pioneer TS-W301R 800W
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 415
Registered: May-09
Pyramid PB715X (please verify with your manual)
RMS power:
35W X 2 @4 Ohms
55W X 2 @2 Ohms
110W X 1 @4 Ohms bridged

Pioneer TS-W301R
Single 4 ohm.
RMS Power: 150 Watts

The first thing to look at is the rating of the fuse you are using.

Also do you have this sub on a box?
 

New member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 3
Registered: Sep-11
so is it not possible to run it at the max power of 2 X 500W at 4ohms like it says it is?
i did know about the 150w RMS of the sub, just unsure if i can get it working at its max with the amp i have.
the sub is in a box ;)
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 418
Registered: May-09
The sub is 150W RMS, the amp is 110W RMS bridged so assuming that the amp is brigded and that the input gain is set correctly the sub should move.

But the blowing fuse is first since that could be a problem with the amp, the fuse is marked with something like this 10A, 15A so to give you more feedback I need you to check it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kaerfpl

Spencerport, NY USA

Post Number: 1379
Registered: Jun-06
Thanks for posting the Model #'s of your Amplifier and Subwoofer Bill. There are a couple of things that I would like to point out for you since you seem to be new into the Car Audio world.

First, when purchasing Car Audio products, never go by MAX Watts. This is an inaccurate rating used to attempt to make products look better than what they really are. Always go by RMS Watts.

Also, when looking into Amplifiers, always attempt to look for an Amplifier that is CEA-2006 Compliant. When an Amplifier is CEA-2006 Compliant, this means that the Specs are true, and are not fake like on the Pyramid PB715X.

Im not sure what type of Enclosure you are using, but I used to own two Pioneer TS-W301R Subwoofers back in the day and had them in a 1.50 Cu Ft Sealed Enclosure (per chamber) and im surprised on how hard they hit, and were very accurate. Great little SQ Subwoofers for the price.

Im not sure how you have your Amplifier hooked upto your Subwoofer, but what you are going to have to do in order to get the most out of that Pyle Amplifier, is to use it's Bridged option in a 4 Ohm load. Below is a link of a picture to help explain what I mean:

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/ca/learningcenter/car/subwoofer_wir ing/1SVC_4-ohm_2ch.jpg

As you will notice, you are not using both Channels. You are using the Positive on one Channel, and the Negative on the other Channel.

Now to get back to your original question, I would first make sure that your Amplifier and Subwoofer is installed line in the picture above. If you are still having the same issue, I would suggest turning down all of the Settings to zero/default and see if you still have the same problem.

If you don't and the Fuse stays intact, then odds are you have of had the Gain or another setting too high. There are multiple threads on eCoustics and on Google for help properly tuning your Amplifier.

If the Fuse is still blowing, I would suggest checking your Power and Negative Cables. For the Positive, make sure there are no cuts in the wire itself, and there are no loose copper strands sticking out at the Battery or at the Amplifier that could touch a Negative/Ground source. Also, make sure to check the Inline Fuse (under the hood) to make sure it is not damaged in any way. For the Negative Cable, make sure that the Ground you are using is sanded down and secure on bare metal. If there is paint or rust in the way, that will cause problems for your Amplifier.

If none of that seems to work, make sure that you are using the correct size Fuses. The Amplifier itself should have a 20A Fuse, and the Inline Fuse should be 60A (according to the user manual).

If everything I said above does not apply to you, then it looks like it's about time to replace your Amplifier. Below are a few good suggestions for your current Subwoofer:

Kicker DX250.1:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_29814_Kicker-DX250.1-11DX250.1.html

JL Audio Slash v2 250/1v2:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_10313_JL-Audio-Slash-v2-250-1v2.html

Rockford Fosgate Punch P500-1BD:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_19556_Rockford-Fosgate-Punch-P500-1BD.html

Rockford Fosgate PRIME R150-2:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17366_Rockford-Fosgate-PRIME-R150-2.html
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 424
Registered: May-09
Well since the sub is 150W at 4 ohm this would be an upgrade at $57! :

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33466_Kenwood-KAC-1502S.html
 

New member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 4
Registered: Sep-11
ok i didnt even really know that amps had RMS ratings too! haha
All the wiring seems to be fine and the bridging is the same as the picture. Also the fuses i have gone through are all 20A.

So is it most likely that the RMS is simply too low on this crappy amp?
The only reason i didnt assume this initially is because it definitely wasnt even generating 110W as Joe d said it is capable of.
Possibly just a dodgey amp ?
Thanx for the help fellas i know its all probably frustrating with newbs :P
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 433
Registered: May-09
I was asking about the fuse because if you were using 10A fuses it would be normal for them to blow but at 20A no, something is going on.

There will be a few things to check before I can reach the conclusion that is defective.

My next question would be if you know if you wired for bridged mode unhappily I don't have the manual and therefore I can't tell you how to do it. If you wired wrong you would have 35W on your sub only!

Also if it gets very hot after the fuse blow. If so you may check that the amp is properly grounded, the ground connection to the chassis should be very tight and free of paint and dirt.

And don't worry about knowing little, you will catch up quickly.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kaerfpl

Spencerport, NY USA

Post Number: 1381
Registered: Jun-06
Just for more information bill, Pyle is by far one of the worst brands out there in the Car Audio world. It could be very possible that the Amplifier itself is just crapping out.

However, back to the issue at hand. If you were originally using 20A Fuses the whole time, try increasing it to a 25A Fuse. Sometimes the increased resistance will help keep the Amplifier stable.

If the Amplifier is still blowing Fuses even after up'ing it to a 25A Fuse on the Amplifier and you are 100% sure there is nothing wrong with the wiring with the whole system, then I would highly suggest just selling the Amplifier, and looking into a new one.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 439
Registered: May-09
Joe S Pyramid that is, Pyle is junk and and Pyramid is right next to it if not below.

Now as for going to higher rated fuse 110/12x0.7 = 13A is what it cat take up (well if my data is correct).
 

Gold Member
Username: Kaerfpl

Spencerport, NY USA

Post Number: 1383
Registered: Jun-06
Ah, my bad. Thought it was Pyle. Still regardless, Pyle and Pyramid are both junk...
 

New member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 5
Registered: Sep-11
Joe D the wiring all seems to be correct for bridged mode and cant see any reason for it not to work properly. Also the amp will get very hot when it is working however, when the fuse blows it is stone cold which i sorta expected.

Think i should have just paid the extra 60 or 70 bucks initially and got myself a monoblock of decent brand name. With this in mind, when buying a new amp should i try to match the RMS and Max powers to my sub RMS and max?
 

Gold Member
Username: Kaerfpl

Spencerport, NY USA

Post Number: 1386
Registered: Jun-06
What you are looking for is compairing RMS Watts ratings. Because you Subwoofer is 150 Watts RMS with a SVC 4 Ohm, you are looking for an Amplifier than can produce a minimum of 150 Watts RMS at a 4 Ohm Load.
 

New member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 6
Registered: Sep-11
ok so an RMS greater than the 150W at 4 ohms i have, shouldnt be a problem?
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 442
Registered: May-09
There should be no problem but you need to properly setup after installation, in fact extra power has many benefits, the most important is that the amp won't get hot and therefore has better chances to last.
 

New member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 7
Registered: Sep-11
Would this be an alright buy? What should i expect to pay for it?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Alpine-Amp-MonoBlock-MRP-M350-V-POWER-/250887750143?p t=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a6a1341ff
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 445
Registered: May-09
I guess YES just with used stuff be careful and pay little, also if you are located in Australia then you need to look at local prices , but you can get those 200W RMS from a new good quality amp like this:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9037_MTX-Audio-XThunder-702X.html

200W RMS at 4 ohm bridged.
 

New member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 8
Registered: Sep-11
ended up buying the alpine monoblock from my last post haha
got it for 87 so im pretty happy with that ;)
ill report back on how it goes.... now to sell that piece a crap pyramid amp without loosing too much money!
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 456
Registered: May-09
Pyramid and Alpine, night and day congrats!
 

New member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 9
Registered: Sep-11
ok so round 2 still unsuccessful.

installed the alpine amp and it was doing about as much as the pyramid for a minute or so... sub did one last pathetic attempt at bass, now hasnt moved since
fuses both ok so there HAS to be something wrong with the wiring.
Ok so the wiring kit i bought a while ago for it was just a crappy 20 dollar one as i had been advised it wouldnt affect sound quality or performance much. Could this be having such a massive impact??
Also running from my amp to the sub is 12 guage speaker cable. Does that sound about right for my set up?
Cheers, frustrated Bill.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 495
Registered: May-09
Sure the wiring should be checked, 8 gauge should be correct for the amp itself. The amplifier to chassis ground connection should be sanded to Bare metal and Tightly bolted (a very common mistake). Also the amp to sub connection should be redone with the cable in the wiring kit. Yes bad wiring can kill a system so fix all that just in case.

Also do you connect the amp through RCAs?? Does any lights still come up on the amplifier???
 

New member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 10
Registered: Sep-11
RCA is just the thin yellow one from the head unit to the amp yes?
still got the light on the amp showing... but the amp itself doesnt heat up at all like the last one.
my ground was sanded and is bolted on... is it pretty much right to go on anywhere that is metal in the car??
and the kit didnt even come with amp to sub wire... just the power, ground and the one that runs from the head unit to the amp
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 503
Registered: May-09
Ok Bill RCAs are like this:

Upload

Those should come from the HU. Can you borrow a multimeter from someone?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 11
Registered: Sep-11
yep ive got them ;)
and think ive got a multi in the garage somewhere... should i test how much power my wires going to the sub are receiving?
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 506
Registered: May-09
Ok Bill so hope you can find it and place some batteries in it, then go to the DC volts test and check the voltage in the terminals of your car battery, it should read +12V, if it works I will let you know how to test things with it.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 12
Registered: Sep-11
So got the amp checked out and its a dud. Full refund from the bloke so that's something.
Thinking of getting this amp here
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_19066_Pioneer_GM-D7400M.aspx
Only thing is they sell for at least $250 here in Australia so I don't know if it is legit? Have seen a fair few sites that are selling them for around 140-150 but none from over here.
Will i be safe to buy from the above site?
Cheers Bill
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 613
Registered: May-09
The site is legit, no question but shipping will be a lot.

Now I am glad that you got your money back but I really think there is something wrong, the other amp was blowing fuses. Two amps misbehaving is too much.

I lack where to put the blame, you can put there 10 amps and see them all go, if you never found that multimeter then at least have that subwoofer checked or better yet sell it and get a new better one, anyways the Pioneer you want can handle a better sub.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 13
Registered: Sep-11
Yeah my only reason for blaming the amp is because the first one was a piece of junk and the second was off ebay. The bloke at the audio store assured me that the wiring i had done was fine and that it was just the amp that wasn't giving the sub anything. I'll have a look at the sub today I think
 

Bronze Member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 14
Registered: Sep-11
CHECKED THE SUB CONNECTIONS AND THERE WAS A WIRE THERE WITH ONLY A PARTIAL CONNECTION.
TOOK THE HOUSING BACK A BIT MORE AND RECONNECTED IT AND FINALLY I HAVE A WORKING SUB!!!

So the bloke from the audio store that told me my amp was faulty will be copping an ear-full of abuse and the seller on ebay that refunded my purchase has received an apology and I will resend the money that is rightfully his back.

Thanx to those that offered constant help throughout my ordeal,
Regards. Bill
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 621
Registered: May-09
I am glad that you found a problem with the sub, I guess you mean you tested the sub with the Alpine??

There is also something I am not clear about and that is the fuse blowing.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Billbass

Post Number: 15
Registered: Sep-11
yep running it with the alpine amp now and its going great

Well the fuses were only blowing with the pyramid amp so i suppose it can just be blamed on the fact that its a piece of junk :P
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 624
Registered: May-09
If it works then it works no way around it, luck Bill
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