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Mainstream subs for best sql in bandpass

 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 26
Registered: May-11
Was looking at 2x L7 15 isobarics in a 7cuft bandpass, but after talking to people here and a few installers all dont recomemend the L7 for long term use (over 1-2 years) also none can tune them in the space i have lower the 45hz

I want to keep the rms below 2000 perferibly 1500rms @2ohms total

I have 7-8cuft to work with

It must be bandpass as in truck bed
And blow through is not and option

I like 15's but 12 or 18 are open to me

My system at current is
Kicker qs6.5 in all 4 doors @75wrms ea.
2x Kicker cvt8.4 under rear seat @210wrms ea.
1x kicker cvt12.2 behind rear seat @400wrms

I plane on keeping the 8" under the rear seats as there tuned for 60-125hz and my doors are 125hz up

And my 12 is out the door so im looking for something to fill 0-60hz
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 666
Registered: Oct-10
Pleeeezzz post pics of the truck so we can know what ur talkin about
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 230
Registered: May-09
2 Sundown Audio SA-15s band-passed around 7cuft.
 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 27
Registered: May-11
I have a toyota hilux
http://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7605
Mine is the gray 1, 3/4 down the page
 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 28
Registered: May-11
Upload
Upload
Upload
Upload
 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 29
Registered: May-11
Upload
Upload
 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 30
Registered: May-11
And my Amps sit either side of the 12"
i have a kicker zx700.5 on right and zx400.1 on left
And of corse the back seat sits on top
The 12" in box with amps either side is a tight fit thats why im looking at bandpass in bed and ported into cab
 

Bronze Member
Username: Dcollister440

Post Number: 32
Registered: Jun-11
so like, where are you from bro, that truck looks amazing, but obviously you're not in the us beacuse the drivers side is on the right?
 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 33
Registered: May-11
i'm in Aust that's why im heavily restricted on subs available
I do by some of my gear from us but at the moment most of my quotes for 1x 15" are 500us for postage, it makes sense to just pay the excessive prices here for them
example
my speakers in aust are $1200 a pr (about $1100-1200us)
from us $400 pr + 100 freight so $900us for 4 doors
but with the 15 its a different story are they weigh a ton
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 426
Registered: Oct-10
If you don't do a blow-through than nowhere near the output will get into the cabin than if the box were in the cabin. For a single-cab, get some 10's or a 12, up the power, and stick the box on the floor on the passengers side or even get 2 bucket seats and stick the box in the middle.
 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 35
Registered: May-11
I do plane on cutting the back wall but only large enough for the ports, i only dont want to cut the hole big enough for blow through as the police here are strick on them sort of mods and they will pull car off road and unless returned to orignal it will never go back on road.
As for ports i already have breather holes in rear and will utilize them for ports into cab
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina

Post Number: 14478
Registered: Dec-03
bandpass box for a SQ setup? seems a bit counter-intuitive.
anyway, bandpass enclosures will not only mask distortion/harmonics, but they also limit your frequency response range, so the sub you choose really won't matter nearly as much as if you'd chosen to go sealed or ported.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 248
Registered: May-09
john there are incredibly powerful subs that work on very small boxes:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_16665_Pioneer-TS-W3002D4.html

These need 1-1.3 cuft ported have high sensitivity of 90db and go right down to 20Hz, 1000W RMS each.

And may be called SQ against L7s

If you only want the bottom end adjust your LPF accordingly.

And yes they are mainstream.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina

Post Number: 14483
Registered: Dec-03
oh I need to stop reading this stuff when I'm half asleep. title said SPL not SQ. oops.
 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 38
Registered: May-11
Sql is title
I no there are alot of quality sq sub for small boxes and yes i can fit 1cuft behind rear seats but im only able to run slimline as i strugle to fit the kicker cvt12 witch is a slimline, i can fit the jl13 slimline but there all the same in the low deparment
Hence going bigger or to std subs and as the hole i cut i want to be min. In truck rear wall i need bandpass

I want something for 0-70hz range as my 8" do 70-125hz
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 251
Registered: May-09
Ok so regarding the sub I suggested in my previous post check the frequency response curves for sealed, ported and bandpass for the 10" and the12" (the 10" fits on a 0.35 to 0.70 cuft box sealed):

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/130/130W3002D4.PDF

Bandpass will not reach 70Hz at usable levels and SQ will be basically junk.
 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 40
Registered: May-11
Joe the sub you are talking about will work in small spaces but wont fit inside truck
My 12 im useing is only 4 3/8" deep and if had to resess back of sub box to fit
To run a sub inside trunk i cant go any bigger in deepth past 4 1/4" with out thining the rear wall of box (3/4 used)
Thats why i need to do bandpass in bed to get any desent low hz out of sub but seens as i have a lot of space there i want to get the best sql i can from a bandpass
I can tune 8 to do 50-125hz if need be and use bp for below 50
But being a so called bandpass novice im limited on knoladge and options as everyone just want to do ported blowthrough but being a new truck i dont want to cut it up to that exstent
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 254
Registered: May-09
If you don't see feasible to move the rear seat two or three inches forward, then using the suggested 12" subs:

Upload

You will need to cutout a 3"x7" rectangle for each sub you place, the response will be as follows:

Upload

A second sub will add 3dB to the response shown, you can then put 2000W RMS at senitivity of 90dB resulting roughly in 130dB peak SPL (better check that with winisd)

Since you will need to have the port reach inside the cabin, you will have to subtract from chamber E the internal cylinder volume that goes outside the box to keep the port perfectly aligned.

A similar job can be done for other subs if you have accurate data for them.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina

Post Number: 14486
Registered: Dec-03
oh god that's an ugly curve.. that'll be an insanely boomy box, with no really low end at all. welcome to 4th order bandpass enclosures.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 668
Registered: Oct-10
I fail to see how a bandpass box will involve less cutting than a ported box. AND WHY CAN'T I SEE PICS ON THE MOBILE VERSION??
 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 41
Registered: May-11
I bandpass only requires 2x ports to cut into rear wall a blow thtought requires a monster hole for unrestricted sound from subs
If i do a ported box and port it into cabin ill lose all the sound from the front of sub
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 263
Registered: May-09
john if you saw my previous post you see the awful frequency response (forget what is not shown), to get a somewhat better sound you will need midbass drivers and a variable slope crossover network and maybe parametric equalization.

If you could move to the front a little your back seats maybe something can be worked out inside the cabin.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 671
Registered: Oct-10
put 1 18" sub in the back floor under the rear seats and use the space those 8"s are using and also using the back wall space that the 12" is using (made wider to take advantage of the whole back wall space) and relocate the 8" to maybe under your front seats or rear floorboard. You can also extend the rear 18" box to your floorboards, making for only a slight inconvenience for rear occupants. It will have to be a sealed box, so look for a sub that does well in sealed enclosures. You may could go with a 15" and even a 12" sub or a pair or 12"s. You could even make the box to where it would set your rear seats a lil higher and get crazy volume to really kill the lows, cuz more space makes deeper bass.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 674
Registered: Oct-10
TheL7s, while not the best will have one advantage: like a 12" having 20% more cone area than a round cone = deeper bass
 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 48
Registered: May-11
As for making the 12" box wider thats impossible as the amps are on both sides and dont fit anywhere else
As for fitting and 18" under seat that would require some major mods to car
If you look at pic of 8's the boxes are very small and steal there appart of the seat + in the middle (where no box is)is the tailshaft or driveshaft is so no space there either
So under the seat is out of the question the best i can do is the pioneer 10" slimline with a spacer plate in the same spot as 8"

The bass i get from the 8" im happy with i just want that low/deep bass that cant be do by any slimline subs or small/shallow boxes

Another option i was look as a rexxx18 in 4th order at 1500wrms
3cuft sealed 5cuft ported at 40hz with a 7x7" port 11" long
On win is seems to look ok
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 284
Registered: May-09
The rexxx18 is too expensive! (1000 at least and shipping will be really high) and sensitivity is 86 db which is that of a 12", sure it will go low and do SPL but at the cost of tons of power maybe a 300A alt + battery will be needed.
 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 50
Registered: May-11
My car comes factory with 280A alt and twin battery are easy (currently is single 960cca bigger then yellow top) so power is fine for an extra 1500wrms
Currently im at 1120wrms and when i up grade 12" to bigger itll be 2200wrms total (300wrms ab and 1900wrms d class) battery sits at 13.2v with music 7/8 up

Yes re 18 is 1g but im after the beat SQ i can get ad go do it load
Within the 1500wrms max range
Yes price is a big thing as it is with all but the 2x l715 i was going to get are 900 +freight so an exter 100 aint much
As fas as amps go ive got 2 choses kicker zx400.1 and zx1500.1 (i have both already) both are 2ohm stable and 1/2 that at 4ohm
so what ever i get i want it to last so i dont wish to over power it
And i need it to sound good and go load in a bandpass box
So i assume the better the sub the better it will sound it a pore inviroment
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 291
Registered: May-09
Check out this driver: not even $500 and same 2k power handling, massively louder and efficient than the RExxx18 (86dB vs 94.9dB) lighter also:

Fi BTL18

DUAL 1 | DUAL 2
Fs: 31.9 Hz | 31.1 Hz
Re: 0.7 Ohms/coil | 1.4 Ohms/coil
Qms: 6.26 | 6.42
Qes: .26 | .24
Qts: .24 | .023
Mms: 313g | 329g
Sd: 1210cm^2 | 1210cm^2
Vas: 163.1 l | 163.1 l
Spl: 94.9dB 1W/1m | 94.9dB 1W/1m
Bl: 18.3 N/A | 27.2 N/A
Xmax: 28mm * | 28mm *
Rms: 2000W * | 2000W *
Sealed box: N/A cuft | N/A cuft
Ported box: 5-10cuft | 5-10cuft
Sub OD: 18.500"| 18.500"
Cut ID: 16.750"| 16.750"
Mounting depth: 10.250"| 10.250"
Displacement: 0.26cuft | 0.26cuft

You will still have the issues of bandpass boxes, junk sq, boomy sound, need for midbass drivers, need for frequency response tweaking all still apply.

But then I guess a single box will be easier to build than two and 18" do get lower.

One other thing the vent of the bandpass must be unobstructed for the enclosure to work properly.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina

Post Number: 14492
Registered: Dec-03
"having 20% more cone area than a round cone = deeper bass"

this statement is so wrong, I don't even know where to begin.
more cone area, when every other T/S spec is the same, will increase output. that's all. How deep the sub plays depends on the enclosure design and tuning, as well as the sub's Bl, Fs, and Qts, among other factors. Smaller subs don't play "faster" either, before someone tries to throw that fallacy out there.

the problem with the L7 is that while it does have more cone area, it has less excursion than a good round sub, which is a trade-off, and one that makes the L7 good for nothing but SPL, and a short lifespan.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 675
Registered: Oct-10
Do 18"s not play lowlows louder than say a 12? So the L7 12 acts as though it is a 14.4" round sub, which is the foundation for my assertion herewith. Or possibly the 18 has more output, as u stated, giving us humans the ability to actually hear and feel such low tones, which are normally indetectible. Either way, im sure u r right
 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 52
Registered: May-11
So glasswolf what would you recomend
The area i have to use is 11cuft -wood and port
I plane in useing 1" marine ply (water proof) leaving me with close 8.5 cuft -port
Power is 400 or 1500wrms at 2ohm
Any bandpass 4,5,6 is fine
I want load sq if possible
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 292
Registered: May-09
Glasswolf you said this:

"Larger subs do however usually offer the advantage of much greater cone area combined with more moving mass and thus a lower Fs, so you can tune a ported box lower and the sub will resonate and move air like mad if you happen to be a fan of that absolute bottom audible octave."

Here:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/686252.html

Which is indeed a fair statement. lowest Fs are most commonly found in big subs. And proper enclosure can be a only complement.
 

Bronze Member
Username: John253a

Post Number: 53
Registered: May-11
I like the fi stuff but there not avaible here in aust.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina

Post Number: 14497
Registered: Dec-03
>Do 18"s not play lowlows louder than say a 12?

No, they do not. They will play deeper IF they are in the correct box design to do so, AND if they have a lower Fs. They will however, have more output at lower frequencies, or any freq really, just due to moving more air, due to more cone area, and more throw. This is why they give the impression of playing lower. An 8" sub can play below human hearing range, too.. Just not with the same volume of output.

>So the L7 12 acts as though it is a 14.4" round sub, which is the foundation for my assertion
again, in cone area yes, not in excursion. This is the shortcoming of the L7, well, one of them anyway. Plenty of 12" round subs out there with 30mm+ Xmax that will outperform an L7.

recommendations? TC Sounds, Fi SSD or BL, SSA Xcon.. any of these are a superior design.
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