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2 Fi Bl Vs. 2 Alpine Type-R's

 

New member
Username: Iamjacobriley

Post Number: 1
Registered: Oct-10
Right now I have 2 Alpine Type-R's (12") wired to a Soundstream TRX1500D. I built my own upfiring box for them and put them in my 2001 denali.
The situation is, they get loud, shake the roof, but you cant feel the subs. My friend who has 1 Memphis Mojo (12") wired to a Memphis amp, downfacing in a F-150 out does me with his subs all the time, im not competitive about it, but i do like the way his sound and feel a lot more then the way mine sound and feel.
So I asked my other friend who installs subs what I should do and he said check out Fi's. Do Fi's have a more intense feeling the way the Mojo does, or does it just get loud?
 

Gold Member
Username: Gcs8

Atlanta, Ga

Post Number: 1556
Registered: Sep-09
the BL's are nice subs, but you may be able to fix your lack of feeling the bass by making a new box. can we have some specs on the box? maybe a picture of it? other wise you may just try 1 12" or 15" BL and wire it for 1 ohm in a nice ported box.

can we have some more info? can you list out your whole setup to us?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 14054
Registered: Dec-03
well a pickup will be louder than an SUV. he has a lot less cabin volume to compress with the sub(s.)

what you should do is consider a better box, say large volume ported box tuned to about 30Hz, and maybe more power.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tejcurrent

Post Number: 2570
Registered: Apr-07
I'd definitely look towards a better box to start off. Subs up port back works great in denali for daily. Are you trying to keep your 3rd row in with the box behind it?
 

New member
Username: Iamjacobriley

Post Number: 2
Registered: Oct-10
The box is ported with separate chambers with no back seat.
The Dimensions: 45" Width, 20" Height, 14" Length
This includes the 2" ports, all made with 3/4" MDF and is a lot better, in my opinion, than the professional box I had before.
It's loud, don't get me wrong, but the feel is still lacking.
Sorry about the pictures, they were taken tonight.
The fur is added for fun.





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Gold Member
Username: Tejcurrent

Post Number: 2571
Registered: Apr-07
Most likely the fur is killing it.
Sorry, j/p

Why not do 2 BL 15s with the space you have? You could do a 7-8ft net box, still have more than 1/2 your cargo area, and it would be a good bit louder in a nice ported box.

The way a sub sounds changes greatly from vehicle to vehicle and in different enclosures. Also people have very different tastes in what they're looking for, so it's hard to say that just dropping in a new sub will fix your problems.
 

New member
Username: Iamjacobriley

Post Number: 3
Registered: Oct-10
Haha yeah, I see what you're are saying. I just want something deep and more full sounding that you feel in your chest. Has anyone ever listened to both the Mojo and BL back to back?
 

Gold Member
Username: Tejcurrent

Post Number: 2575
Registered: Apr-07
I've heard both- not in the same vehicle on the same amp in the same box if that's what you're asking. I like the BL, if you're considering upgrading to 3000 watts total two BLs would be a great choice, but for just 1500 total you could buy a cheaper sub to handle the power.

I would take the BL over the Mojo because I like the way it sounds better. I would also take the BL over the Type-R, but if I wasn't going to give a sub more than 1000 watts each there are several other subs I'd look towards first.

Your comparing your full size suv to a small cab. You'll need more cone area and/or power to have the same sound without a really good enclosure. Even with a good enclosure most times.

If you're seriously shopping around you shouldn't be disappointed with 2 15s over your 2 12s.
 

New member
Username: Iamjacobriley

Post Number: 4
Registered: Oct-10
Did the BL's make your chest hurt the way the Mojo's did? I have only heard the Mojos.
I am thinking about getting another TRX1500D to push each sub individually.
The 15" are only 20$ more per sub, so I might as well.
I just want to feel the beat in my chest.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 14057
Registered: Dec-03
the box is too large, and the ports are too small for a pair of 12" Type R subs. As noted before, the problem is the box.
You should have 2 to 2.25 cu ft per sub, and you need 4" ID ports (round) for twelve-inch subs.
 

New member
Username: Iamjacobriley

Post Number: 5
Registered: Oct-10
Okay,that would make sense, but either way, I have heard other Alpine Type-R's with the same amp in a friends car (Tahoe) with a professional custome made box, and mine are louder and you still couldnt feel the beat with his. I've heard that Alpines are not supposed to be felt like that.
Plus I know someone who would buy them anyways, so why not flip them and get bigger and better in a way I prefer? Or should I just keep the Alpines and try to figure a way to make them have more of a feel?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 14059
Registered: Dec-03
That's totally up to you. If you want different subs, go for it.
I was simply pointing out some issues with the current install, that's all.

Don't let me stop ya from getting bigger subs.. in a large SUV, you're better off with a pair of 15" or a single 18" anyway.
 

New member
Username: Iamjacobriley

Post Number: 6
Registered: Oct-10
What if I kept the subs at 12" and just got BL's and another amp instead, would the box I have still work with the BL's? I believe the inside volume is around 2.25-2.5, I can't remember exactly.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tejcurrent

Post Number: 2577
Registered: Apr-07
You should be able to reuse the box if you had to go with 12s. Most likely though you wont notice a huge change without a new box, a 2nd amp, or bigger subs.
 

New member
Username: Iamjacobriley

Post Number: 7
Registered: Oct-10
Wouldn't changing the subs change the feel since the BL's are SPL subs and the Type-R's for SQ? I just want that whole full deep feel that Alpines don't give
 

Silver Member
Username: Perfectcircle

Naptown, Indy

Post Number: 209
Registered: Feb-10
No. i don't think you would see a great deal of change, just dropping in bl's in that box. you would need to build a new box that is made to specs for the bl's. subwoofers can be very tempermental when you just throw them in any box. you can make a 2000 dollar sub sound bad in the wrong box.
 

Silver Member
Username: Perfectcircle

Naptown, Indy

Post Number: 210
Registered: Feb-10
Listen to glass and troy. they know their stuff.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 14062
Registered: Dec-03
Here's the thing. You have a large vehicle, which is why you aren't "feeling" the subs.
You have too much air volume in the vehicle cabin to compress or move with a pair of 12" subs. To illustrate this, I had a pair of 12" Cerwin Vega subs, made in 1989, with treated paper cones and foam surrounds, driven with a 160WRMS x 2 channel amp in my old Festiva. Very small car, and those two subs hit over 140dB, and you couldn't see straight when they hit. This was because I had very little volume in the car to deal with, unlike your SUV.

What you need is cone area, and excursion, combined with power. That's what you need to move a lot of air.
The power, well, you have a good start there.
For subs, go with two 15" or two 18" subs, and go with a large box, ported and tuned to about 28Hz. It'll hit hard, deep, and you'll certainly feel it.
 

New member
Username: Iamjacobriley

Post Number: 8
Registered: Oct-10
Okay, so what if I was to get two more Alpine Type-R 12" and another amp, would that be good? should I go with two 15" along instead of another 2 12"?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 14071
Registered: Dec-03
Typically I prefer to go with larger subs when possible, because they have more moving mass, and as a result, typically lower Fs/F3, which allows them to be tuned lower and hit more deeply. That said, 4 12" subs will increase the output, as will double the power if your car's electrical system can feed that much current to keep the output of the amps clean, without clipping. Remember when you start talking about thousands of watts of amplfiiers, you usually need a high output alternator and 1/0gauge wire to feed them cleanly. Take it from someone with a 300A alternator, 1/0 gauge wire, a battery isolator, and two dedicated audio batteries in his car to feed two amplifiers (1700WRMS total between them)

If you want to compare output, find the total cone area of each setup (simple geometry. pi*r squared) then add the Xmax of the subs to the sum of the surface areas, and then look at the driver's sensitivity to see if both are similar in how much output they offer @ 1 watt @ 1 meter relative to the other subs you're considering.

This will give you a starting point for how to compare two setups. If they'll be fed with different amplifiers, you're getting into a different set of math with logarithmic scales, though.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tejcurrent

Post Number: 2580
Registered: Apr-07
Either do 4 12s or 2 15s. I'd do 2 15s. Another amp and 2 more 12s would still be louder, I'd just rather have 4 15s down the road.
 

Silver Member
Username: Perfectcircle

Naptown, Indy

Post Number: 214
Registered: Feb-10
You going new fi btl neo troy? anxious to see how they stack up against the warden. i know you wanted to go smaller and do more then two subs. curious if you contacted ia to see what maybe 12 or 15" top assemblies would cost to downsize your wardens. the dealer i bought my wardens from said he thought maybe 100 to 150 to get new baskets and cones. not sure if you tried that route. sorry for the thread jack op.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tejcurrent

Post Number: 2581
Registered: Apr-07
Yeah, just sinking all my money from selling stuff into buying inventory. Also need like $300 more in 1/0, plus copper bus bars, several steel racks, etc etc, so I may be a month or so out from new buying the new subs. Definitely using some BTLs.

// end thread jack
 

New member
Username: Iamjacobriley

Post Number: 9
Registered: Oct-10
Okay, thanks so much guys.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 37
Registered: Oct-10
I would do...

4 Dayton Classic 18" WTFO (91dB sensitivity / 8.25mm xmax) $115 each
Whatever space (5-10 cubes each? I really don't know) @ 30hz
1200W @ 1ohm

... but that's just me. Cheap + wall + cone area FTW?
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