New here, would appreciate help. thanks

 

New member
Username: Zd8840

Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-10
Ok so im new to the whole speaker thing, and ive always heard of kickers and how good they are... blah blah blah. So i was planning on getting some and i found this deal that i thought was pretty sweet (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KICKER-08-DS12L7-DUAL-12-SUB-BOX-S12L7-CAR-SUBWO OFERS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1e5b3bed40QQitemZ130379672896QQptZCarQ5fAudioQ5 fVideo)
but ive been reading on here that their are better subs out there for around the same price. i have 600$ and want to make the most of that. i just got a 06 honda civic coupe and wanted some subs and a amp for it, so i would love some help on finding whatever would be best with the budget that i have. I kinda figured on getting 2 12's, but a friend told me that 1 15 would be better because it can hit lower beats and all that. oh and ive read alot of other posts and people start nameing alot of different brands and such, but i would kinda just like someone to tell me what would be best for me. thanks guys
 

Silver Member
Username: Skdooley

Roanoke, VA Usa

Post Number: 521
Registered: Oct-09
How a sub hits is going to depend on the sub itself, if it is a SQ or SPL sub, and mainly the enclosure it is in. If you wanted tighter, punchier bass you would go sealed, if you wanted deeper bass, or louder bass you would go ported. It is also going to depend on how much power the subs are seeing as well. Many factors play into it. For a decent budget system that will perform well I'd recommend an AQ1200D and either a set of Alpine type Rs or Fi SSDs. I'd recommend the Fi SSDs mainly because I feel they arn't as common as the alpines and they do very well. Kicker makes decent amps but I would not recommend their speakers. As you mentioned, for the money there are other choices to go with.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, SC USA

Post Number: 12919
Registered: Dec-03
OK let's see where to begin with this.
Avoid the square subs. They have numerous design issues, some of which include: tinsel lead slap and separation, surround separation, cone flex distortion due to uneven stress points due to the cone shape, limited excursion due to cone shape,, and premature failure.

Yes there are better subs for the money, the question is what is your focus. sound quality/tight controlled bass? SPL (raw volume.. I'm louder than you stuff) music or competition with test tones? what sort of music do you prefer?

yes one 15" sub will generally be louder than two 12". the 15" has more cone area, and usually has close to the same excursion as the combined 12".. usually.

How deep a sub plays is a factor of a number of things, like the enclosure design, the Fs of the sub, and it's BL curve. Not just it's diameter.

If you want an all around good sub that will hit hard and sound good, and you have $600 for sub and amp together, I'd say go with an Fi SSD 15" (one) from here:
http://www.ficaraudio.com/
Put the sub in a 3.5 cubic foot box, ported with a 6" ID aero port, or a slot port. I'd go with the aero port. Get the sub with dual 2 ohm coils,


Then go with this amp to drive the sub:
http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/amplifiers/sae-1200d-v2.html

this will give you 1200 watts RMS @ 1 ohm. Any larger, and you'll need a high output alternator for sure. You still may with this setup, but that's only about $200-300 for that upgrade, to get enough clean power to drive this setup.

you'll also want a 4 gauge or larger amp wiring kit from here:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/
 

New member
Username: Zd8840

Post Number: 2
Registered: Apr-10
I was looking at what you posted and the amp that you linked me to was priced at around 500$ and thats over my budget. the Fi SSD's look realy nice though i just wouldn't know were to get a good box for them. also another friend said that haveing 12's instead of 15's will hit more highs in a song than the 15's. to answer your questions, i listen to rap music so its just whatever. im not realy to sure what would be best with all the high and low stuff because i dont know much of anything about that.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, SC USA

Post Number: 12922
Registered: Dec-03
try this amp:
http://www.audioque.com/aq/?page_id=26
Audioque AQ1200D
It should be less expensive, and try Google shopping to find a fair price for it.

As for the sub choice, the sub should be crossed over at about 50-60Hz, with an 18dB/octave Q anyway, so "highs" don't matter.
How detailed the sub sounds is a factor of the BL curve (motor control) of the sub, and not it's diameter. Your friend has good intentions, but audio engineering isn't his forte. No offense.
If you want anything abobe about 80Hz, that's the job of a midrange or midbass driver (8" and smaller speakers) and that's why you want a good front stage (2 or 3 way separates by a company like DynAudio, CDT, DLS, Focal, and so forth) driven by a decent amplifier putting out 40-100 watts per channel @ 4 ohms, depending on the speakers you choose.

Subs are for sub-bass. That's strictly low end. Trying to produce anything higher than that will cause the subs to sound muddy and overly warm. You'll also begin to lose tight motor control over about 80Hz. Anything above 120Hz and it's really going to sound lousy, no matter how good the driver may be.

Go with the AQ1200D and an SSD15. Use 4AWG wiring for power (or larger. if you go with 2 amps for the system, go to 2 or 1/0 gauge with a distribution block to split to both amps.) Have the sub box built for you by someone who knows how to build a good box. Plenty of people on this site who'd be happy to build the box for you, and it will probably cost you maybe $200 or less for parts and labor. That's a very fair price for the work. For a ported box, tune it @ 32Hz for a 15", have the box builder use one 6" aero port and terminal cups for the build.

You'll be suitably impressed with the outcome.

As you save up some money, I strongly suggest you buy a head unit with 3 pair of line level pre-outs (RCA lines), get a decent 2 or 4 channel amp (full range) and a good set of separates for the front of the car so your sub doesn't completely drown out the vocals and treble in the music.

Nothing sounds worse than a car with good bass, and the bass completely drowns out everything else.. with the possible exception of a completely crappy system that's nothing but distortion.

when the sub amp is installed, set the LPF to 50Hz, set the slope (Q) to 18dB, set phase to zero, and turn off any "bass boost"
then set the amp gain no higher than 1/2 way up. I'd start at 1/4 trn up from minimum. any higher and you risk the amp clipping.
 

New member
Username: Zd8840

Post Number: 3
Registered: Apr-10
Thanks alot man, this realy helps and is most likely what I am going to do. but one question why not just go with the 18" ssd? its only 30$ more
 

Silver Member
Username: Simple_smith

Lapeer, Michigan United States

Post Number: 381
Registered: Dec-08
box size. since you're in a civic, i highly doubt you could just slide the properly sized box for an 18 into the trunk.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Whatmh5

Post Number: 52
Registered: Dec-09
Shaveme, if you go to ssa's website they sell the sundown 1200d v2 for 315..

From what I hear it is a better amp, but its also 65 bucks more. Its all your choice
 

New member
Username: Zd8840

Post Number: 4
Registered: Apr-10
thanks man, ill have to check that out. Also I was looking at a couple of things and I was wandering would this 15" Fi SSD be better than a Jl audio 13W3v3?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, SC USA

Post Number: 12927
Registered: Dec-03
The vented box for an 18" sub would be 5 cubic feet in volume, plus the displacement of the speaker and the vent itself. That's a huge box for a Civic. If you want zero trunk space left, sure, you could do an 18, but I'm not entirely sure you'd hae enough air space in the cabin of the car to really let that 18 breathe and resonate, so you wouldn't get the full effect. I use a single 18 in my own car, but my car is a fastback, and it's huge, so I have the air space for the speaker to really breathe, and I'm using an Fi Q18, but my system is strictly set up for SQ and not for getting loud and trying to impress the neighborhood kids.

Yes I feel the Fi is a better all around sub than the JL W3. I also feel JL is a bit overdone. Too much of it out there now, and I like Fi for the fact that the drivers are built to order, and the customer service is outstanding. Small company and personal attention.

If you end up having issues from 1200 watts of power with lights dimming, you still may end up needing to upgrade the charging system in that honda. Honda isn't known for using large stock alternators so you don't get much room to work with on a factory alternator, but upgrades aren't too expensive, which is a bonus.

The other problem with running at 18, is that you're moving more driver mass, and that means a stronger magnet structure, and more power needed to really make it work well, and stay tightly controlled. You're already at 1200 watts. an 18 works much better with about twice that much power.
 

New member
Username: Zd8840

Post Number: 5
Registered: Apr-10
Alright I just didn't know cause the JL W3 is more expensive on their site than the SSD. And I looked on eBay and I could get the W3 for the same price. Also I decided to go ahead and get new door speakers any reccomendations on some quality ones that aren't realy expensive. Like I don't think I would want to spend over 100$ on them. And also since I'm doing this I figured I would need a different amp for this setup. Haha so if you don't mind telling me what to get once again. Thanks again for all the help.
 

Silver Member
Username: Skdooley

Roanoke, VA Usa

Post Number: 532
Registered: Oct-09
The W3 is going to be a SQ sub where as the SSD is more of an all around sub, which is more of what I think you're looking for. The SSD can also handle more power than a w3.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, SC USA

Post Number: 12957
Registered: Dec-03
JL makes a good speaker. I just prefer the Fi SSD, personally.
Door speakers...
Focal Polyglass
JL Audio XR
Alpine Type R
CDT
Infinity Kappa Perfect

I'd say the SSD is more on par with the W6v(whatever it's up to now)
The W3 is more on par with the Fi Q
 

New member
Username: Zd8840

Post Number: 6
Registered: Apr-10
alright man thanks. should I run my door speakers through the amp aswell? and if so would i need a different amp than the AQ1200D?
 

Silver Member
Username: Jbpitt

Pittsburgh, Pa. Usa

Post Number: 325
Registered: Jul-09
Yea your just going to want to run your sub with the 1200d. Your going to need a 2 or 4 ch amp for that. Aq also makes a nice little 4ch amp as well. I believe its around the same price as the 1200d.
 

New member
Username: Zd8840

Post Number: 7
Registered: Apr-10
so your saying find a 4ch amp instead of the AQ1200D?
 

Gold Member
Username: Turnmat

Www.j-designs.org

Post Number: 1250
Registered: Feb-07
No, you need the AQ1200D for your subs and another amp for your interior speakers. So you will need two different amps.
 

New member
Username: Zd8840

Post Number: 8
Registered: Apr-10
so you cant just buy one amp that will power both?
 

Gold Member
Username: Turnmat

Www.j-designs.org

Post Number: 1251
Registered: Feb-07
There are some amps that are three channel or five channel amps that will power both your interior speakers and your subs.

Not to many amps in your price range that will be able to push the ssd and your interior speakers. have never used any of these amps so i cant speaker for how well they work but here is a short list of some that i found.

Three channel:
Orion HCCA 250r

Five channel:
Xtant 3300x
Kicker ZX700.5
Earthquake T3000W/D5
HIFONICS ZXi60.4 + 1K
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, SC USA

Post Number: 12966
Registered: Dec-03
Ideally yes, you want two separate amplifiers.

sub amps are typically class D amps, whereas full range amps for door speakers are typically class T, or AB amps.
they function differently, and sub amps cannot work on full range speakers. Full range amps *can* drive subs, but they are very inefficient at doing so.
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