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Sound quality amplifier

 

Silver Member
Username: Believe

Illinois

Post Number: 174
Registered: Jun-05
im looking for a sq amp for my rear speakers

they are rated at 90w rms i believe ( 4ohm )

i have 55w rms going to each speaker now and its just not cutting it!

my 6x9's arent sounding much better then stock.. a little amplified but thats it

so im looking for 75w - 125w for 2 channels
ive only got about $100-$150 so ill probably have to buy used

i have some stuff laying around for sale/trade on top of the $100 or so
if anybody has something that fits my needs i would love to work something out

or if yall can help me find something on the internet

ebay's prices on amps have gone up to ridiculous prices on the majority of amps
everything is marked up 50% - 100%
i guess theres lots of ppl broke like me.. lol

meanwhile i have been sitting on a 12w7 for like 2 years it seems like

i never thought i would have any sort of patience to hold off on putting that thing in the car.. but after buying a new car and investing in other hobbies i just havent had any money for things like power wire and an alternator

i sold almost everything from my old car except the speakers.. im still looking for amp upgrades from the last install so i can hear music over the 12w7.. which is part of the reason i havent installed it yet

im looking forward to your replies
 

Gold Member
Username: Van_man

Boston South, MA

Post Number: 2632
Registered: Mar-06
A little over your budget, but a nice amp.

Also theres a 50x2 Zap on ebay for 120

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Zapco-2-Channel-Power-Amplifier-600-Watt-Amp-Chan_W0QQit emZ120138388472QQihZ002QQcategoryZ39732QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 

Silver Member
Username: Believe

Illinois

Post Number: 175
Registered: Jun-05
you cant go over budget unless i can trade the seller something to make up for the difference
 

Gold Member
Username: Juliob

Santo DomingoDominican Re...

Post Number: 4765
Registered: Dec-05
you can buy some rockford stuff or kicker, like 350.4 or p4004
 

Bronze Member
Username: Wrencher

Brighton, Illinois USA

Post Number: 48
Registered: Apr-07
Not sure what brand amp you have now but 55watts should be ample enough to get decent sound. Perhaps you could invest in a good quality line driver. Remember the more you put into an amp the more you get out of it. I don't think your going to get anything stellar out of a set of 6x9 speakers either. But a line driver might be just what you need.
 

New member
Username: Sqcheap

Grand rapids, Michigan Usa

Post Number: 9
Registered: Jul-07
There are some kickers on ubid lately, I bought one but don't have it in yet. Sounded good just testing it in the house.

A good amp with 75w x 2 RMS should push 6x9s with no problem, quite loudly unless they are very inefficient. Good 6x9s can blast good, I used to install two sets in boats all the time and they hammered. I would never need more for SQ in a car, but a cheezy amp will not put out as much. I have used a soundstream rubicon and they work nice, there are lots of good older amps out there but they were all on ebay this spring and it dried up this last month or so. There were lots of infinity and mtx amps that are not bad, but all gone now. Older alpines are a favorite of mine too, if you find the old black ones.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sqcheap

Grand rapids, Michigan Usa

Post Number: 14
Registered: Jul-07
I've been told kicker and hifonics are pretty well built amps for the price, told by techs.
 

Silver Member
Username: Big_edge_head

Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA

Post Number: 284
Registered: Mar-07
i just bought a kx250.2 for 100 bucks
 

Gold Member
Username: 04redmach1

Columbus, GA USA

Post Number: 1032
Registered: Mar-06
I can do a brand new Massive Audio P200.2 for $150 shipped with 2 year warranty if interested.

Kevin
lowhz01@yahoo.com
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sqcheap

Grand rapids, Michigan Usa

Post Number: 16
Registered: Jul-07
I have a dual I don't need, it was on a 12" BP box. I have not used it but ran it in the house and it worked fine. Its 100wrms x 2, 150 at 2 ohms, 300wrms x1 bridged, 460 max. Xia2460. I'd ship for 60, I should ebay it. Its too big and heavy to fit my car well.
 

Silver Member
Username: Believe

Illinois

Post Number: 176
Registered: Jun-05
well first of all..

i had to buy a bigger power supply for my computer
i found a pc power and cooling 510 sli for 44% off original price so i only passed it up once.. lol

my computer has started to suffer from random restarts and at the moment i only have 18 amps on the 12volt rail
the new power supply has 34 amps on the 12v rail

i wont have any spending money until next month :-(
getting paid every week must be nice!

next order of business..

my 55watts is only half of what the 6x9s are capable of (90w rms)
that gives their tweeters enough juice to play with but not the cone!
since i havent had my sub in my new car yet i need my 6x9s to get me in the 50hz area
thats not happening with 50% under powered cones

yes the speakers are much louder then the front stock speakers on the headunit amp but thats all vocals and above
i want to drive these infinity 6x9s into nonsense to satisfy my bass crave until i can get my sub in

the amp is about 6 years old and it has put out more in the past.. im gonna redo the battery connection cause its dirty but it could also be the new head unit i have.. since ive never dealt with the head unit before i will probably just get a new shiney crimp-on ring terminal

i appreciate your posts and i was hoping to get a new amp with a damping factor @ 500 or above
its the new spec i want to experiment with

my bass crave is getting the best of me and tackling the under powered situation is more relevant then experimenting with a new specification

the only thing stellar that i own now are the 6.5inch peerless midrange speakers in my home theater (made in denmark)
ive got some old school kicker resolution midranges that are stellar also but not on par with my peerless (the kickers are beefy but the peerless speakers are beefy and reproduce girls voices exceptionally well)

kevin holden offered me the massive audio p200.2 for $150 shipped

yet he offered it to somebody else for $135 as you can see for yourself here:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/357146.html

dont do business with this person.. there are tons of places selling that amp cheaper right now
and raising the price on an already publicized product is a no-no

thanks for the laugh though!

since i am already touching the 80hz area with my current amp i think im going to go with the line driver suggestion since its cheaper then a new amp and it doesnt really mess with my future damping specification experiments
i can register 50hz now but it doesnt show up on the spl meter.. after the line driver added im hoping that area will be loud enough to hear in line with the rest of the frequencies

about the line driver

are one of these cheapos okay?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Increase-Pre-Amp-Line-Driver-Level-Signal-Amplifier_W0QQitem Z200125788548QQihZ010QQcategoryZ60208QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or maybe one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HUGE-PLANET-AUDIO-PRE-AMP-2-CH-CHANNEL-LINE-DRIVER-NEW_W0QQi temZ120138645995QQihZ002QQcategoryZ14932QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

i would buy one that looks home made as long as it doesnt do more harm then good
 

Silver Member
Username: Believe

Illinois

Post Number: 177
Registered: Jun-05
**edit**

the date on the box says 1998 so that makes the amp 8-9 years old
 

Silver Member
Username: Believe

Illinois

Post Number: 178
Registered: Jun-05
lol.. that planet audio line driver is only 10hz - 3khz

theres a cheap way to take the tweeters out of the equation
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sqcheap

Grand rapids, Michigan Usa

Post Number: 17
Registered: Jul-07
I would not recommend a cheap line driver except maybe for subs if you must, they tend to sound nasty unless you can verify it does not. Getting bass out of 6x9...get a sub. 6x9 will play nice but not make big bass, they are equivalent to an 8" woofer but have mid/tweeters in the way. If I were you I'd get an EQ, an older one of a good brand and not a powered(amp) one...though a good booster can run 6x9 pretty well, say an alpine. EQ will give any sound you want until you get the rest of your setup.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sqcheap

Grand rapids, Michigan Usa

Post Number: 18
Registered: Jul-07
If I were buying new and cheap I might ask about the lanzar or soundstream EQ and parametrics....but I can't tell you how they work. I have used lots of EQs and crossovers and my experience was they have lots of noise in them unless they are of high quality, but I have not tried any new ones in last 10 years. For a booster EQ I'd look for a good used on ebay like an alpine/kenwood/etc.
 

Silver Member
Username: Believe

Illinois

Post Number: 179
Registered: Jun-05
i have a 12" w7 and that is not hear nor there

when you say big bass i dont know your standpoint so im not trying to meet you half way..

what i am saying is this.. my 6x9's @ 80hz register on my spl meter with the meter set at the 70db range
my 6x9's dont register at 50hz and are just barely ever so audible

on my old headunit these 6x9's had a sound that was satisfying.. though i was using a different amp and i have since sold that amp with plans on upgrading it.. there was about a 20 watt difference i believe in the two amps
again not here nor there

i have looked at some line drivers since my previous posts and i have come up with a couple

the sld44 from phoenix gold:
ftp://208.187.38.55/Phoenix_Gold/Manuals/Processors/Line%20Drivers/SLD44_Manual. pdf

the audiocontrol overdrive:
http://www.mobileaudiocontrol.com/product.asp?Product_Id=14163&d_Id=5249&l1=5249 &l2=

or an audiocontrol eql:
http://cgi.ebay.com/AUDIOCONTROL-EQL_W0QQitemZ180135583854QQihZ008QQcategoryZ798 41QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

that ebayer has 0 reviews unfortunately
and my amp shows no specs of what is acceptable for input voltage.. my headunit is rated at 5v 100ohm

my amp might distort grunt and puke
but i read that i will probably melt a voice coil before i mess up the amp

i have a 16 band eq built into my headunit and im hoping it will boost the needed frequencies enough without clipping

i bought a laptop so i could download and use truerta out in the car

true rta can be read about here:
http://www.trueaudio.com/

i wanna take that out to the car and use the rta and the oscilliscope to check for clipped signals

i went out and bought a shure analyzer microphone so i can get a flat frequency response

my 6x9's are a big part of my system because they can get into the 80hz area and blend in the subs without leaving me with a gap in the 100hz-80hz range in the frequency response
most pros use large speakers in custom pods to make up for that area
and even if i were to make pods on the doors for speakers capable of that frequency range i would still want that extra help from the rear speakers

without making any pods for the front or back its about the most logical and easiest chance i have

that phoenix gold line driver looks great on paper.. but it really boils down to whichever i can find first cheaper

but the first thing that i need to do is get a new battery connection for my amp cause i know my amp is clipping from the dirty old ring terminal

i already looked for new battery terminals and came up empty handed based on price and what is available.. 95% of the stuff is cheap metal or overpriced
and i passed on the other 5% until it was too late.. the same situation with a new amp and 5-6 months ago when amps were on sale
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sqcheap

Grand rapids, Michigan Usa

Post Number: 20
Registered: Jul-07
If your HU is 5v you should not need a line driver, you need a bigger amp. Second, you are not going to get 6x9s to put out at 50Hz much at all, they just don't do it. Really good ones will some, but it is a pointless endeavor. A big flat baffle helps some, but they just are not made to be subs. Sure they run 100Hz easy enough for midbass and can work great for that even though many will tell you they are no good for anything SQ...like I said they are like an 8" but they are not built like a sub. Even an 8" sub has a hard time moving enough air.

Audiocontrol stuff is pretty good. You can trash an amp overdriving it, I have overdriven a Linear Power amp with 5v...from their own EQ that puts out 5v. It didn't hurt that amp, but those are very good amps. I like systems that are mostly SQ for music and have some thunder in them...can hit 30Hz. But I don't get that crazy with expensive stuff usually. A couple amps maybe 150-300wrms usually does enough for me. Check out any pawn shops around you and try to get them to deal on an amp. Ebay is kind of slow right now, ubid has some if they are what you want but not used. Heck I have a 300wrms x1 running off my fuse box with my high side amp right now, I would not recommend it but it works. I don't hammer it really because the single 12 sounds poor and it really overpowers my high side, but its only a temp sub. I had one half that size that was fine but had a problem so I had to swap amps, and blew a 20amp fuse right away now it has a 30 and still makes noise. I have a 5ga to put in now when I finish the sub install of four 12s. That should give me plenty of 30Hz.
 

Silver Member
Username: Believe

Illinois

Post Number: 180
Registered: Jun-05
i have heard enough out of your replies.. please dont post in any of my threads again

reason: your telling me i cant do something ive already done

i have no tolerance for skeptics
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sqcheap

Grand rapids, Michigan Usa

Post Number: 21
Registered: Jul-07
Lol, ok, I been doing this 20 years and you are telling me you can get 50Hz out of 6x9s....best of luck. You might get close with an EQ, and then they will not handle any power. You said "SQ"; SQ means around 30Hz and up anyway. Do you think everyone who wants a little SQ runs subs for fun?

Don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answer to. Your posts don't make a whole lot of sense anyway.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mrray13

Post Number: 148
Registered: Oct-06
believe...please explain this to me,

"my 55watts is only half of what the 6x9s are capable of (90w rms)
that gives their tweeters enough juice to play with but not the cone! "


so, your infinitys can tell if they aren't getting rms power? so, they restrict the power to the cone and only allow the tweeter to play? i'm just a bit dumber after reading your posts, so please help me out.




wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 

Silver Member
Username: Believe

Illinois

Post Number: 181
Registered: Jun-05
6x9 tweeters can get very very loud
in fact the tweeters are probably too bright when the speaker assembly is receiving rms power

to answer your question..
the cone's xmax restricts the power
since the cone isnt receiving full rms power the cone isnt moving back and forth to its full potential

its no different from having your master volume at 25% (55w) compared to having your master volume at 75% (90w)
 

Silver Member
Username: Mrray13

Post Number: 149
Registered: Oct-06
what? the cone's xmax doesn't restrict anything. it's controlled, the cone's movement, by the power and enclosure, or lack thereof.

if you have your 6x9's ib in the trunk, they aren't going to need full rms to reach xmax. especially infinity's.

if you're worried about the lows from yoru 6x9's, check your xovers, make sure they are set correctly. maybe build small enclosures for them, that should help with some lowend.


but if you believe anything you just typed above, you need to go back and relearn everything.




wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 

Silver Member
Username: Believe

Illinois

Post Number: 182
Registered: Jun-05
i beg to differ

the cones xmax restricts the power based on its mass

a 3 inch cone surface area on the same motor will reach xmax with less power

and anyway.. i have a box on the bottom side of my rear deck that encloses both 6x9's together and isolates them from the trunk

i have no further desire to enlighten someone as rude as yourself
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sqcheap

Grand rapids, Michigan Usa

Post Number: 35
Registered: Jul-07
You should really listen to people who do have a clue.

I suppose suspension and spiders and voice coils and magnets and gaps and all that stuff have nothing to do with when a driver will reach Xmax? Aside from the fact that the enclosure usually has a great effect anyway?

Sure less cone will reach xmax faster, if it has the same motor structure, spider(s), suspension, etc, etc....so find me two the same??? Hardly anyone makes a different size driver with the same stuff under it even from one manufacturer. Virtually every speaker you buy is different, and will sound different.

You have a box? There you go again asking about stuff and not telling what you have to start with, is this a game? You are showing your true colors. Fact is a box will lessen your low Hz response and increase your powerhandling.

I have no desire to waste my time on you but I keep laughing so hard over your comments I can't stop reading them. Indeed, you are the rude one. You came on here asking for help, not us. You could get a lot further in life by changing your ways instead of making everyone dislike you. I have installed more 6x9s than I can count, I know how they work. In the 80s/90s everyone used 6x9s.
 

Silver Member
Username: Believe

Illinois

Post Number: 183
Registered: Jun-05
well pimp..

ive been at this car audio since i was 11 and im now going on 25

i have a box.. so what!
because i have a box has nothing to do with my original question.. i asked for an amp between 75-125 watts between 100-150 dollars
i didnt have to tell you i have 6x9s
and i didnt have to tell you i already have a subwoofer
i think your calling all the shots here sqcheap and you are adding irrelevance to the things i side noted

i have written personal thank yous for replies to my thread.. just because you arent one of the ppl who received a written personal thank you doesnt mean you are entitled anything
besides i asked you politely to stop communicating with me and you havent stopped

your telling me things like 'every speaker you buy is different and will sound different'

with having 14 years experience i dont need you to tell me that and your wasting my time quite rudely

and you cant keep putting your nose in my business as if i have said all there is to say
i told you i have a box and you know absolutely no details about the box

i came on here asking for an amp and you offered to sell me an amp made by dual
your posts have been of lesser quality then that amplifier and i have every right to say no to things i dont want

for example:
if i said i wanted a drink that tastes good.. this doesnt mean i have to accept whatever drink you hand me
i have the right to say this drink isnt cold enough
i have a right to say this drink is watered out

i did not post and say i was dying of thirst and anything but saltwater will do

your help offerings are denied and i see you are upset but i dont really care and your harrassing me a great deal

thanks again to marc, juliob, sunny mills, kevin holden, and even you for taking the time to reply to my thread

unfortunately some ppl offered better advice and quite frankly sqcheap has done more talking off topic rather then input any real info that i asked for

towards the end i feel that more arguements started because some ppl believe that an answer has to be 100% relevant and factors do not play a role in these other ppls arguements

xmax.. cone mass.. air.. impedance are all factors that restrict power

i cant sit here and defend truth once the blunt truth has been told

and i dont wish to argue and educate those who pass up on the truth

im sorry if any moderators have had to watch this thread closely when they could be doing more productive things

a 6x9 in free air will not have higher decibels in the low hz compared to a 6x9 in a rather large box
especially if the box is ported and tuned to achieve maximum decibel at a low hz

im not here to become stumped but i believe a few posters are quizing me rather then giving me information

to all/any of you who are just following this post:
i have a foam/resin molded padding that isolate the 6x9 area from the trunk which helps make the lower frequencies audible
it doesnt echo like wood does and it should keep the subwoofer pressure from interfering with the 6x9 cones

rather interesting actually

im a little worn out today

and as a reminder.. you have no right to argue with me in my thread
your posts will be considered harassment and off topic
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sqcheap

Grand rapids, Michigan Usa

Post Number: 37
Registered: Jul-07
Your words speak for themselves.

But speaking of moderators, you are the one on here calling people offensive names. I told you that you didn't know what you were talking about, there is a difference. Your statements show the extent of your knowledge.

But feel free to add a $20 line driver to your too-small amp and pump 50Hz out of your resin form boxed 6x9s, you ought to learn something trying.

Do you own this forum? I didn't think so, this is a public forum and I will post here within the same rules as anyone else...and without calling people childish offensive names.


"DO NOT use profanity or demean your fellow users." https://www.ecoustics.com/bbs/forumrules.htm

Is laughing at you demeaning? Well I don't know but certainly it is not as bad as calling me the slang term meaning the CEO of a whorehouse. I would not have laughed but you just kept coming up with good ones. You just can't change physics.

All that matters in the end is not ratings and specs, it's how the system sounds if you want SQ. And a system trying to get 50Hz out of 6x9s is not going to sound good nor is a cheap line driver. Anything of low quality before your amps will hurt the sound. Of course you are free to try anything, don't let me stop you. I don't have to listen to your car stereo.
 

Silver Member
Username: Riebread77

Post Number: 709
Registered: Jun-05
I wouldn't recommend a line driver to a system that doesn't have an adequate amp setup and a stock speaker setup in the front...maybe down the line if you get more serious...

but seriously, I have the infinity kappa 6x9s...110 watt rms...I power those and the 6.5" coaxials off of a phoenix gold x200.2...so thats 4 speakers off of 2 channels and they scream. For just 1 set of 6x9s...try the phoenix gold x100.2. Its 100watts rms @ 1-4 ohms. They are discontinued on PG's website, but I never had any problems with mine so I can vouch for them. That will feed your speakersthe power you need.

$155.00 + shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NIB-Phoenix-Gold-X100-2-Xenon-Series-Amp-100W-x-2-NEW_W0QQit emZ180021903578QQihZ008QQcategoryZ39732QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
 

Bronze Member
Username: Vt_ahole

USA

Post Number: 59
Registered: Jun-07
believe you need to get a life... who the hell sits on a message forum that they just joined to b!tch at someone whos trying to help them? your an a$$hole, and a pu$$y to let words from people you dont even know bother you. if you dont like the advice then just ignore it and go away.
 

Silver Member
Username: Believe

Illinois

Post Number: 184
Registered: Jun-05
alex just informed us that he/she tells ppl who asks for help to go away
 

Gold Member
Username: Lbeckner

Tulsa, Ok Usa

Post Number: 1554
Registered: Oct-04
if you want sq then dont use rear speakers.
 

Silver Member
Username: Believe

Illinois

Post Number: 185
Registered: Jun-05
i have learned the comparison of triple darlington vs mosfets

thank you ryan for recommending the triple darlington design

the amp i have is so old and roughly under 100watts so i dont think it has a regulated power supply

ill probably take that amp and bring it into the house and feed it 15volts and power my home theater sub
 

Gold Member
Username: Nd4spd18

Southeast PA

Post Number: 3089
Registered: Jul-06
" im looking for a SQ amp for my rear speakers "


^^^^^ dont belong in the same sentence
 

Silver Member
Username: Believe

Illinois

Post Number: 191
Registered: Jun-05
and if my car has 4.1 sound?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jjohan35

Post Number: 13
Registered: Jun-07
don't know why everyone got beef but i do think Believe is right regarding the behavior that cones/woofers/midrange suffer first from underpower. tweets never have a problem with a weak amp, but the woofers usually don't output enough midbass without enough wattage.

same reason why the midbass out of the infinity, jbl, and cdt sucks with a weak amp. their tweets sound just fine though.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mrray13

Post Number: 150
Registered: Oct-06
"don't know why everyone got beef but i do think Believe is right regarding the behavior that cones/woofers/midrange suffer first from underpower. "


nobody is arguing they won't suffer some from a lack of power. but to argue that the xmax will restrict power? doesn't happen. power controls xmax, not the other way around. the suspension, ie spider and surround, will contribute to the efficiency, or lack thereof, but it's only PART of the equation.

and to think those factory little resin foam enclosures are actually an enclosure? while i won't argue that they won't help a bit, they are more of a dampning material then an enclosure.

but whatever. i've been at this almost 20 years as well, started at 16, currently 35. but what do i know? i only just did this for a living.




wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 

Bronze Member
Username: Thed42

Post Number: 43
Registered: Jun-06
4.1 sound hahahahahahaha
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