Cap Q

 

New member
Username: Audiobomb

Gainesville, Fl

Post Number: 3
Registered: Oct-06
So I am still having some probs understanding this cap thing. I have read the links that Glasswolf always posts as well as many others. I understand what a cap does and does not do, but why is it only good with HO alts? If an alt exceeds its max output and the cap is actually used, than why would any more stress be put on a reg. alt than an HO? They are both using the cap and they both have to recharge it. Even if the HO will recharge it faster, its still a "stress"

Also, if a cap only puts out 50% of its rated power at any given 'use-time' and if it is infact a non-necesity....than were does the rule of thumb "1 farad to every 1000rms" come from? Why does this matter? Why couldn't I buy a 20 farad cap per 1000rms if I wanted? (I won't do this, just hypothetical)

Surely a cap can't be completly useless....if not a pratical investment for car audio than what is it a pratical use for?
 

Gold Member
Username: Safe_cracker

Chicago, IL US

Post Number: 1697
Registered: Jan-06
A Cap is never useless regardless of what a lot of these pssies here tell you. You can use any cap at any given moment that you want with any alternator, it just cannot be used in place of or instead of a failing electrical system. The more stress you put on your stock electrical system the more your stock alt will try to compensate and will be overcome by said load. There are a lot of newbies here who like to put caps on stock systems thinking it will help, but it will not bring the voltage up, it can only smooth the flow and that is all it is used for. Here is the kicker at any given time a cap cannot put more stress on ANY given electrical system wether it is stock or High output because a cap does not draw power, it only stores it. Now if you use a cap with a high ESR the you are adding an additional load but it is very small, most caps in the 1-5 farad range have an extremely low ESR so that would be neglegeable. Polo...
 

Silver Member
Username: Renegadesrun

Lafayette, IN US

Post Number: 428
Registered: Oct-04
The best i have ever read......

After studying a little history on large 1 Farad capacitors in car audio, you'd be amazed that they even sell at all. How useful are they? What do they really do? Will a Cap 'improve' my sound quality? Will it Prevent my lights from dimming? Will it audibly affect my audio system in any way?

Before you get the truth to any of the above questions, chances are, you've probably spent $100 or more on one of these devices. However, let's study a little history regarding this issue.

A long time ago, in a land far away, 2 elves...Ok, Richard Clark & Wayne Harris (Carsound magazine and the inventor of DB Drag, respectively) separately came up with a solution to preventing their lights from dimming.

WHO WERE THESE GUYZ?

As you may know, Richard Clark is one of the founders of autosound2000 Tech Briefs, Carsound magazine, and a published author of the industry of mobile electronics. In SQ competitions, he posted a record of 1234 1st place finishes, and only ended up NOT 1st in his first event. I've heard that he had minor system problems, but judging by his record, he must have corrected it. (evidently, he needed a Capacitor )

Wayne Harris was previously a leader at Rockford Fosgate in their development. Later, in his free time, he created the organization we call DB DRAG. Wayne was the first SQ World Champion from the organization we know as IASCA (International AutoSound Challenge Association).

Both of these gurus are both legends, and considered the leading experts in the field. During their competition days, both guyz came up with a way to assist in the prevention of voltage drops. In SQ competitions, the look of your system is actually more important than the sound, and having your lights NOT dim under high playing levels is a competitive advantage.

As you may know, amplifiers are made up a bank of little capacitors, resistors, etc. What has been common engineering knowledge is that capacitors store energy, and more or bigger ones assist in balancing the power supply.

Wayne came up with the idea of putting several dozen 'little' (approx 100uF) capacitors on a circuit board to 'extend' the power supplies storage. At about the same time, or shortly afterward, Richard came up with the idea of one huge mondo capacitor (I believe it was 800,000uF or 0.8F) to do the job.

Eventually, Richard won. The large cylindrical tubes won over the complicated 48 caps strapped to a circuit board. However, what did this really accomplish? Let's start here:

WHAT IS A CAPACITOR?

Basically, capacitors are an energy storage device. Large, 1 Farad or more
capacitors store energy (electrons) between their plates. Capacitors differ
from batteries because batteries store energy in the form of chemical
energy--and rely on acid and lead plates, as the place of storage. For a more detailed
description of a capacitor, go here:

http://www.carsound.com/ubb/Archives...-1-000307.html

Phoenix Gold's marketing guru had just posted information on how their Powercore (basically the Alumapro CAP15 in a Phoenix shell) had both stabilized their voltage and improved the sound quality. Richard called him on it (all in another post) and the marketing geek was unable to quantify any of the conditions that resulted in the voltage being HELD at 14.2V and the 'improved' sound quality.

Please do not read every stinking post as valid. There are a lot of people that have had the efficacy of capacitors inbred to their minds, and were not (and still not) convinced in the futility of a 1 Farad storage device.

In a final note, Richard relayed a quote regarding battcaps ( www.battcap.net ) as, "..The audio industry is the only place i know of where you can publish specs that show your product is useless and still be able to sell them------and whats worse is that technically ignorant people will argue against the math!!!!!!!..............RC.." when referring to the product. This also relates to most digital readout capacitors, and I wish my Archie Bunker skills could have said it better myself.

The inventor calls it useless and im a pu55y?

STFU punk. :rolleyes:
 

Gold Member
Username: Safe_cracker

Chicago, IL US

Post Number: 1721
Registered: Jan-06
For one a batcap is useless other than to be used as a battery, the ESR is much higher than a standard 1-5Farad cap, fact. For two a standard battery cannot release its energy as fast as a cap which causes a voltage sag, fact 2. A capacitor in an ultra low ESR configuration has its uses in car audio, even with a HO alt it is still possible to suffer from the discoball effect, fact 3. Anyone doubting this has not been educated enough and is more convinced by what other marketing pssys have to say making them a pssy too, lol!

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Silver Member
Username: Renegadesrun

Lafayette, IN US

Post Number: 430
Registered: Oct-04
There is alot about car audio that i dont have a good grasp of, that i readily admit.......AND this arguement has gone back and forth for years. It will likekly continue.

None of it makes me a pu55y however. and i dont care much for the slight. In Chi, your close enough to have this statement proven/disproven readily. Today, next week, w/e. Come on down, talk your sh!t. You may not care for the results.

The fact that you have chosen to label persons, that you dont even know, a pu555y, from the safety of your computer chair makes you a punk. That is the only "fact" i see.
 

Silver Member
Username: Renegadesrun

Lafayette, IN US

Post Number: 433
Registered: Oct-04
IF i use them i can only think of a couple reasons.

1) Peak voltage is available to the highs amp. IMO it would be useless on a bass amp.
2) To watch voltage drops. (IE...the meter)
3) Looks in the install.

None of which makes monetary sence since i get batteries, that the cannot compete with, at dealer.
 

Gold Member
Username: Safe_cracker

Chicago, IL US

Post Number: 1722
Registered: Jan-06
"The inventor calls it useless and im a pu55y?

STFU punk. :rolleyes:"


This is what you posted on the bottom of your long and useless post. Nobody called you a pssy unless you are one of the ones who are going around with the seneless babble saying that for a fact caps are useless. Look at my original answering post don't think it was aimed towards you, now was it? Now that you think your man enough to call me out then I can guarrantee you are biting off more than your big mouth can chew! I will be in W Lafeyette at the clock tower at around 10am on the 30th (mon) for an install if you wished to meet me there. I would suggest bringing extra can of @ss because you are looking a little on the light side, by the way I throw refrigerators around all day, what do you do, lol ? Polo..
 

Silver Member
Username: Renegadesrun

Lafayette, IN US

Post Number: 434
Registered: Oct-04
YGPM.

Union Pipe Layer.

Ill bring a six pack. ;)

See ya Monday!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Audiobomb

Gainesville, Fl

Post Number: 14
Registered: Oct-06
Would a cap be better placed on a sub amp or a multi channel comp amp?
 

Silver Member
Username: Th3pwn3r

Chicago, Illinois U.S.A

Post Number: 697
Registered: Jul-06
My god...Polo you're such a bad@ss.I envy you lol.Hey Ren bring me that six pack instead but make sure it's coors light that shi± is delicious with that liner :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Renegadesrun

Lafayette, IN US

Post Number: 445
Registered: Oct-04
Settle for Newcastle's? I cant bring myself to spend money on that p[idgeon pi55.

(If youve been to the brewery outside of Denver, you'd understand.)
 

Gold Member
Username: Basshead86

Try Google

Post Number: 7515
Registered: Aug-05
give me a break...talk is cheap on the internet guys. lololololololol
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_ross

Post Number: 570
Registered: May-06
yea
 

Silver Member
Username: Renegadesrun

Lafayette, IN US

Post Number: 446
Registered: Oct-04
Hey u 2.

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Gold Member
Username: Basshead86

Try Google

Post Number: 7532
Registered: Aug-05
rofl.

NO




:-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Bass__monkey

Las Vegas, Nevada U.S. of A.

Post Number: 165
Registered: Sep-06
wow... interesting! well i learned something! now guys be polite! renegade congrats! in spl apps the caps do lose some... ( through experience... ) spl that is... but it is readily on the application. you win some you lose some...
 

Gold Member
Username: Safe_cracker

Chicago, IL US

Post Number: 1736
Registered: Jan-06
People taliking sh!t behind my back are ya? lOl :-O



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Gold Member
Username: Basshead86

Try Google

Post Number: 7572
Registered: Aug-05
that is a funny pic^^^

must be the Superman shirt...Dane Cook thing. lol
 

Gold Member
Username: Adddisorder

West palm, Florida

Post Number: 1449
Registered: Jan-06
hahaha super bleeder
 

Gold Member
Username: Fandim

Reno, Nevada United State...

Post Number: 1400
Registered: Jun-05
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Gold Member
Username: Safe_cracker

Chicago, IL US

Post Number: 1773
Registered: Jan-06
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Gold Member
Username: Redliner

Wilmington, Ma

Post Number: 2782
Registered: Jun-05
lol caps are for power factor corrections they are helpful its like a fridge it starts getting warm inside and then the fans kick in cools it down. So the power dips even with a ho alt and batts sometime and the quickest way for it to get that extra supply is a cap so it just kicks in and discharges then it charges again they created them for a reason so they are helpful. If they dont work in the situation then why would they use them everywhere else in the world doing the same exact thing
 

Silver Member
Username: Renegadesrun

Lafayette, IN US

Post Number: 449
Registered: Oct-04
If 1 million caps will sustain a sine wave for 1 second, you tell me just hom much help that POS will give.

Please do.

Waste your money, i dont give a sh!t, i didnt take you to raise, but someone did, and i feel sorry for them.
 

Gold Member
Username: Redliner

Wilmington, Ma

Post Number: 2797
Registered: Jun-05
ya the person that took me to raise are my parents. Oh and by the way my mom picked my life over her's she waited to have me while she had cancer it was either me or her and guess what she picked me. So ya that was kinda a a##hole comment you never know who your talking to so dont say sh!t like that.
 

Silver Member
Username: Renegadesrun

Lafayette, IN US

Post Number: 459
Registered: Oct-04
You will do well to remember that this is the internet, my thin skinned friend.
 

Silver Member
Username: Renegadesrun

Lafayette, IN US

Post Number: 460
Registered: Oct-04
I know we all forget that at times.

Post made as a generalization.

Tired of arguing about caps.
 

Gold Member
Username: Redliner

Wilmington, Ma

Post Number: 2800
Registered: Jun-05
Yes i know that just trying to say dont say stuff like that cause some people take it personally. but i forgive u because i like you lol.
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