Batcap or Yellow Top
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Bronze Member Username: SpidercoderPost Number: 29 Registered: Aug-06 | What would help the system the most. A ho alt i dont know about because my car is an 06 altima I dont know how available the alt would be. Im running an xtant x1001 (1000 watts rms) and a diamond audio d3 400.4 So is a yellow top gonna give me a benefit or a batcap. Will the headlights still dim. Im real unclear on this every shop you ask tells me something different. They all have thier own agenda. Help Out please. If this isnt going to benefit me well then thier is no need to spend the 200.00 on either. Thanks guys Dan |
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Gold Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 2061 Registered: Dec-05 | not gonna help if you don't get a HO alt.. you need to reas www.wickedcases.com the part of car audio charging. talk to nate for alternators |
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Gold Member Username: TheelfkeeperStockbridge, GA USA Post Number: 2683 Registered: Feb-05 | definally read up on the site above and www.bcae1.com about electrical system upgrades. a battery alone will no nothing for you if you can't keep it charged with a high output alternator, which there is no replacement for either btw. most shops haven't even heard of a high output alternator and just try to sell more batteries or capacitors to try and cover up your dying alternator. |
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Gold Member Username: IlluminatorUSA Post Number: 4588 Registered: Apr-05 | Deep cycle batteries (such as yellow-tops) are not meant to be used in car audio applications. In fact, they are going to be worse. |
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Bronze Member Username: SpidercoderPost Number: 30 Registered: Aug-06 | So I should just wait and find a HO alt for my car then How much are the HO alts normally. It probally will be more expensive since I have an 06 import. Im really not into wasting money so Ill hold off on the battery. My Install is scheduled for Friday. Here is what I have so far HU = alpine 9853 Subs = (2) Kicker 10 L7 (sealed box) Was going to go ported but Id rather feel the bass hit harder. Plus L7's I hear get unreliable in ported boxes. Sub Amp = xtant x1001 highs/mids = CDT Audio EF-61FG amp for mids diamond audio d3 400.4 (bridged to the CDTs) rear stock clarion 6 x 9 running off the deck All JL audio wiring kits and rcas So im just gonna save my $200 for battery and $50 install charge and 50 for extra distro block and try and find a HO ALT Thanks guys Ill Post some pics after install |
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Gold Member Username: RzarectorCoquitlam, Bc Canada Post Number: 1261 Registered: Dec-04 | "Deep cycle batteries (such as yellow-tops) are not meant to be used in car audio applications. In fact, they are going to be worse." accually they are,, maybe not designed souly for car audio but they are absoloutly geared for it, optima even reccomends there yellow tops for car audio applications.. id say hook up the system first, upgradew your "big 3" wiring alternator to battery (+) batter to chassis ground and engine to chassis ground with 4 gauge wiring.. that will help out your charging system a little.. if u experience no problems after u hook up your system, dimming headlights will be the biggest giveaway then its all good.. (unlikely with 1000 watts) if not call u nate at www.exessiveamperage.com tell him what your running and he will recomend an alt |
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Gold Member Username: RzarectorCoquitlam, Bc Canada Post Number: 1262 Registered: Dec-04 | have to spell excessive right to get to the website though lol |
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Gold Member Username: IlluminatorUSA Post Number: 4591 Registered: Apr-05 | The yellow tops are only for use in systems where the car is off when the system is running. The benefit to this is they can be discharged up to 80% of their capacity without damage. A standard lead acid battery will put out more current than a yellow top/deep cycle could ever hope to achieve. If you want an optima expensive-top, the red-top is the only way to go. |
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Gold Member Username: RzarectorCoquitlam, Bc Canada Post Number: 1268 Registered: Dec-04 | if your runing a powerful system the battery is going to be constantly draining and charging.. a lead acid battery isnt as well suited for that as a deep cycle.. not to mention the deadly fumes they release into your car |
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Gold Member Username: Safe_crackerChicago, IL US Post Number: 1412 Registered: Jan-06 | Yellow tops take a very long time to charge that is why they are NOT suited for car audio, look it up! A standard wet cell battery is much better suited but you will need to mount it with a protective spill case located at AutoZone or Summit racing. A yellowtop will not stand up to over voltaging and will also release fumes...FACT.. Polo... |
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Gold Member Username: Basshead86Google is your Friend, FL Post Number: 4835 Registered: Aug-05 | mark, stop with the ingorance. yellow tops have ONE PURPOSE in car audio. to run the system when the car is off, that is IT. other than that, a red top is more efficient and more effective in every application. they give off more current at one time than a yellow top(deep cycle batt.s are resistant to give up charge, NOT GOOD for an amplifier) making them more suitable to start the car as well. they also will not die as quickly in a starter battery situation. deep cycles are meant to be discharged and then recharged....not constantly charged like they would under your hood. read up a bit more before you start posting ignorant statements and are misinforming people. |
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Bronze Member Username: CavsmaximaPost Number: 78 Registered: Aug-06 | Subs = (2) Kicker 10 L7 (sealed box) Was going to go ported but Id rather feel the bass hit harder. Plus L7's I hear get unreliable in ported boxes. i have the same system in my car, and i was told to go ported. They said the bass would sound so much better. But im not sure i havent installed my ported box i just got it yesterday but ill let you know which i think is better, if you want. |
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Gold Member Username: TheelfkeeperStockbridge, GA USA Post Number: 2688 Registered: Feb-05 | all i can say is my regular stock battery i had under my hood got destroyed by my sound system even with a HO Alt...i have a yellow top now, going on 2 years, and its been great. no problems. i think Chris posted on the wrong thread?? lol |
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Bronze Member Username: CavsmaximaPost Number: 81 Registered: Aug-06 | No lol i was reading what he wrote about his system. And just decided to comment lol |
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Bronze Member Username: SpidercoderPost Number: 31 Registered: Aug-06 | Chris: The ported box will defiantly be louder but you will get better sound quality and tighter bass that youll feel from a sealed enclosure. Another reason I decided to go with the sealed box is do to the L7 being unreliable in a ported box. Have you already had your l7 in a sealed enclosure? was it a prefab box if you did already have the sealed box ? How hard were they hittin ? what kind of amp were you using Thanks Dan |
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Bronze Member Username: CavsmaximaPost Number: 83 Registered: Aug-06 | The thing with my system as of now is i only have good subs. 2 10sl7's I have them in a shity small sealed box powered by a sony xplod and a stock head Unit. Even though all my stuff as of now is junk the subs are hitting really hard. My subs arent even being pushed to half their maximum power since my amp has like 400 RMS, and if im washing my car and i run inside real quick i feel things shake even though i dont have it on that loud cuz i dont wanna piss the neighbors off. These subs are really good... The only reason i have that crap amp is because i had two 12' jensens before these kickers and that amp was fine for it. Im looking into the kicker kx1200.1. You should look into it also. At a 1-ohm load the amp will push 1200 RMS. But the birth sheet says 1435RMS or something like that so that amp is really good for these subs. Go to the thread in the amplifier section that says something like I need help thank you in advance has like 14 posts. thats where i was told to get that amp if you want to read into it. |
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Bronze Member Username: SpidercoderPost Number: 32 Registered: Aug-06 | XTant makes a much better amp than Kicker. Xtant amps are measured at 12V not at 14.4 or 13 something. Dont get me wrong at all kicker makes good amps but they are power suckers I can run this amp @ 2 ohms and get 1000 rms from 12 volts. But you defiantly will be in better shape with that kicker over the sony. My install is scheduled for Friday Ill post some pics and let you know how they sound in a sealed box made custom for the L7 and my trunk. |
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Bronze Member Username: CavsmaximaPost Number: 87 Registered: Aug-06 | Alright that sounds good. Good Luck with the install hope it sounds the way u want. |
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Gold Member Username: Safe_crackerChicago, IL US Post Number: 1416 Registered: Jan-06 | Ummm, Xtant if I am not mistaken is not a class D like the kicker. As far as the Xtant being a better amp, ummm that is preference and I would quite doubt the build quality is better. The Kicker can be ran at .5ohm, don't think Xtant comes close..Polo. |
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Gold Member Username: Safe_crackerChicago, IL US Post Number: 1417 Registered: Jan-06 | Ok it is a class D but it has a regulated power supply unlike the Kicker. The kicker will produce much more power than your amp will and by the way, who runs at 12V anyways, lol. A regulated power supply is good for cars without an updated elec system but to take advantage of the extra power your HO alt puts out, go with the unregulated. By the way at 13.8V with a 1ohm load it will put out 500rms more and at .5ohm, well you get the picture.... |
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Bronze Member Username: SpidercoderPost Number: 33 Registered: Aug-06 | Well for my situation Id rather have the xtant amp with the regulated power supply that will give me 1000 watts rms @ 12v considering my car is an 06 I don't want to change the alt. This was a friendly conversation there is no need for you to chime in with this hostility I won't be running at .5 ohms so I don't care. |
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Gold Member Username: Safe_crackerChicago, IL US Post Number: 1420 Registered: Jan-06 | No hostility here but when a person posts a personal preference as a fact he/she should be ready to back it up. Most people here are looking for more power for there dollar, Xtant won't give it to you, they aren't the company they use to be like Orion and Phoenix Gold.  Polo.. |
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Bronze Member Username: CavsmaximaPost Number: 90 Registered: Aug-06 | How bout This BULLSHIT!!!! So i just go to install that box i was telling you about.. And one side is completly broken. The wood is collapsed in. And besides that the subs didnt even fit in so i would have to do work on it anyway if i was keeping it. Now i gotta see if this shity place will take the box back!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: SpidercoderPost Number: 34 Registered: Aug-06 | Alright this model is the old xtant amp before Jeff sold the company to MTX. Now whos Amps does jeff do all the design for JL Audio. So dont try and tell me that the kicker kx or zx 1200.1 is a better amp than an xtant x1001. And if you were to put this amp on a 1 ohm load you guessed it 2000 watts rms @ 12 volts. I think you have no idea the of quality of amp that you are talking about. |
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Bronze Member Username: SpidercoderPost Number: 35 Registered: Aug-06 | Chris I hope so,that would suck defiantly suck to have a broken box. I guess it would be ported though lol. Just kidding good luck with it. Dan |
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Bronze Member Username: CavsmaximaPost Number: 92 Registered: Aug-06 | Hey dan do you know if the subs arent supose to fit in the enlosure completly. Because this is teh second box that i had that didnt fit the subs and were made for them. The first box i sanded down though. But im just wondering is it supose to be like that. |
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Gold Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 2074 Registered: Dec-05 | i like both hehe... the kicker can run at 0.5 ohms so that would be an extra... |
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Bronze Member Username: SpidercoderPost Number: 36 Registered: Aug-06 | yes they should fit all the way in the enclosure like a normal sub. Did they give a round speaker whole box modded. ill give you the exact cut out off the manual when i get home. |
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Bronze Member Username: SpidercoderPost Number: 37 Registered: Aug-06 | also please give me the link to where kicker is advertsing that amp is 1/2 ohm stable. not what someone else says but where kicker gives that info because i dont think that amp is 1/2 ohm stable |
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Bronze Member Username: CavsmaximaPost Number: 94 Registered: Aug-06 | I dont know but its the second time that happened to me.http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/1570443/vpcsid/0 /SFV/30046 |
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Gold Member Username: Safe_crackerChicago, IL US Post Number: 1423 Registered: Jan-06 | Dude that amp would never make 2K and will most definately burn the power supply fets before ever being able to flow enough current, lol. Those amps are audiophile amps, NOT dedicated high current amplifiers. If that is an older amp it is even more inneficient. There is nothing saying that a kicker is .5ohm stable but then again there is nothing saying the Xtant is 1ohm stable either. I would put any one of the Kicker sx, kx or zx lines up against that fossil you have any day. By the way, lets crack your amp open and take a pic and I will do the same...This will decide the quality... |
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Gold Member Username: Safe_crackerChicago, IL US Post Number: 1424 Registered: Jan-06 | http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Xtant_X1001/inside2.jpg http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Kicker_KX1200.1/tn_inside1.jpg |
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Bronze Member Username: SpidercoderPost Number: 38 Registered: Aug-06 | Chris Your cut outs should be 9.5 x 9.5 for the 10L7 |
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Gold Member Username: B101Queen City, NC USA Post Number: 3530 Registered: Sep-05 | ok, lots of misconseptions.... batcap>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>yellowtop for the record a batcap is NOT a battery! its illegal in alot of db drag classes!! batcaps generates HIGH VERY HIGH numbers of current, its more like a alternator! which is why they cost like 800 each! nothing dishes out current faster than a batcap... lol unless u have a HO alternator! I prefer to run all deepcycles in my car, so that means all yellows and NO reds... Muddy I understand what ur saying, but how things work is actually different in performance.. |
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Gold Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 2075 Registered: Dec-05 | haha just get the kicker amp man... when polo argues.. you just listen hehehe liked that one polo? :d |
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Bronze Member Username: CavsmaximaPost Number: 95 Registered: Aug-06 | Thanks Dan i just measured my box and its 9.2x9.2 |
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Gold Member Username: TheelfkeeperStockbridge, GA USA Post Number: 2691 Registered: Feb-05 | i'd take Xtant over Kicker any day. but i run Zapco, better fits my needs. i had a smaller batcap a while back and ran into all kinds of problems with it adn eventually got just threw it away. noise problems suck!! |
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Gold Member Username: Basshead86Google is your Friend, FL Post Number: 4847 Registered: Aug-05 | either way...when it comes time for me new get a new battery...it won't be a deep cycle. |
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Gold Member Username: RzarectorCoquitlam, Bc Canada Post Number: 1269 Registered: Dec-04 | muddy i was talking about having the yellowtop in the rear as a second battery. FOR the system nto a starter battery.. im just gonna compare the 2 batteries redtop and yellow top same models .. im not saying your wrong.. both the yellow top D24/78 and the redtop 34/78 have about the same charging time. yeah the redtop has more capitance than the yellow but if you have a proper charging system that shouldnt be a problem.. the yellow top also has less internal resistance so would ti not release power more easily? if im wrong im wrong but the specifications tell me otherwise |
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Gold Member Username: Safe_crackerChicago, IL US Post Number: 1427 Registered: Jan-06 | "i'd take Xtant over Kicker any day. but i run Zapco, better fits my needs." Zapco are nice amps too, lol! Like I said Xtant were audiophile amps, note the largest they make are no longer large, lol. Also I want to state that they are a pretty looking amp (if that is what you like) they clean up nice with a little W-D40. I am a brute power type of person and like as many watts I get for the dollar like most here. Ok now to the battery topic. The main reason why is because they are AGM, they do not like the higher voltages of our HO alts which tend to be upwards of 15V. Matter of fact I have seen where they say not to exceed 13.8-14.1V forgot were but they are too expensive to be taking that chance. I have seen people use those NorthStar batteries for telecommunitcations, they look nice too but I do not know the type of cell it is. Anyhoo the yellowtop takes longer to charge and has less capacity not to mention it was designed to release its energy over a longer duration so it is slower. The redtop has a higher capacity, is faster but it has its flukes, unlike the yellowtop with 350+ charges under 11V the redtop will only come back 35 times, little better than a standard acid starting battery but more expensive too. I prefer to put the largest under the hood where it belongs then use a standard acid bat(s) in the trunk in a aid proof sealed box vented to the outside via an extension tube. Now onto the BatCap, I have heard mixed reviews on this one. I have heard they work great but noisy, I also heard that they only work slightly better than a regular battery but cost many times more. I was also told that the ESR is also much higher than a cap so I would rather spend the money on a few caps instead and have something that works better for the money! Now I know your guys take on caps sooooo take it with a grain of salt...Polo.. |
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Gold Member Username: Basshead86Google is your Friend, FL Post Number: 4876 Registered: Aug-05 | i wouldn't get a yellowtop either way.... whether it be in the trunk...or under the hood. if you have an HO alt. then you shouldn't be worried about how low the voltage drops. and if your HO alt can't keep up, get more batteries. |
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Gold Member Username: RzarectorCoquitlam, Bc Canada Post Number: 1278 Registered: Dec-04 | well personal preferences will vary i guess how bout we just leave it at that? |
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Gold Member Username: Basshead86Google is your Friend, FL Post Number: 4905 Registered: Aug-05 | sure |
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Bronze Member Username: CavsmaximaPost Number: 98 Registered: Aug-06 | Wait how bout we end it with saying what a HO alt is. LOL |
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Gold Member Username: RzarectorCoquitlam, Bc Canada Post Number: 1284 Registered: Dec-04 | :\ High Output alternator |
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Silver Member Username: JohnfiacIl USA Post Number: 339 Registered: Mar-06 | So liquid\LEAD batterys do more current? Would that maintain a higher voltage then?(saying that you have proper charging system and all"HO ALT, BIG 3, ect") ? |
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Bronze Member Username: TheforgottenmanPost Number: 58 Registered: Aug-06 | My amp reads 12.8 - 13.6V. Is that good? |
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Silver Member Username: JohnfiacIl USA Post Number: 344 Registered: Mar-06 | your amp? do u mean when your amp is on and your testing the power levels when it hits right? 12.8-13.6 is fine to operate at, 12.5 is the minimum basically, but you get a little more effientcy at higher voltage 13.8-14.5 is ussualy the best range to be at that i know of but its a lil hard to maintain that with big systems.. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 5638 Registered: Nov-04 | 12.5v - 12.8v, you're starting to suck up power from the battery. Not a good idea unless you have a booster with you. |
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Silver Member Username: CavsmaximaNew York United States Post Number: 109 Registered: Aug-06 |  Dan finally got that new box going. Putting it in the car today... Did u get any picks of your installation up yet? |
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Bronze Member Username: SpidercoderPost Number: 48 Registered: Aug-06 | no net yet i will today though. i did go with a ported box though. Just one vent on side |
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Gold Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 2147 Registered: Dec-05 | looks nice |
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Silver Member Username: CavsmaximaNew York United States Post Number: 118 Registered: Aug-06 | Wow i cant believe the difference this box makes. The bass is insanely loud and it sounds good. Makes me not even want to buy the new amp. But with my personality i am only satisfied for such a little time, so i will buy it anyway. But i cant imagine these subs hitting any harder then they are now! |
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