Glasswolf or Isaac / Capacitor as Distribution Block on 2 Amps ?

 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3422
Registered: Feb-05
My installer ran the 1/0 power wire to the 1 farad capacitor in the back and used the CAP as a distribution block for my 2 amps.

Is this ok ? He says its fine this way.

I have a ppi a600.2 and a arc audio 1500XXK

Im using 300rms from the ppi and 900rms from the 1500 to the sub.

Should i have him run the 1 farad cap to the sub amp only or both like he has now ?

thanks
 

Silver Member
Username: N2audio

Lawrence, Ks USA

Post Number: 777
Registered: Mar-04
that's one of the many running jokes concerning capacitors - they make pretty distribution blocks...

It's probably not doing much for the ppi anyway. I can't imagine there'd be any real benefit connecting it to the sub amp only.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 5430
Registered: Nov-04
I'd separate the cap from the PPI and use it solely on the sub amp. After all that's where most of the benefit will occur anyways.
Like I always said in the past, if the caps are used properly, it can be beneficial.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3424
Registered: Feb-05
Yeah, im going to have him run it to the sub amp only.

Thats what i thought whould work out better. Will i need to use a distribution block in this case or how should he rewire it isaac ?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Nanbakat

Mexico CityMexico

Post Number: 28
Registered: Mar-06
Distroblock-->>cap-->>sub amp
|
|
|__>>other amp
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3425
Registered: Feb-05
OK, that is what i was thinking of also since i have a distribution block for 1/0 power into 2 4 gauge outs which should work perfect. Thanks
 

Silver Member
Username: Fandim

Reno, Nevada United State...

Post Number: 853
Registered: Jun-05
MO, if you're going to smaller power wire at the dist block, IMO, it would be better to just use the cap as the block. Here is a diagram to check out.

Upload


In the first one - You're using 9 feet of 0 gauge wire, going into 2 four gauge strands that are one foot each.

In the second, (assuming the cap/amp placement is the same) You'd use like 8 feet of 0 gauge, then 2 feet of four gauge to amp b, then a foot of 4 gauge to the cap, then another foot of 4 gauge to amp A.

So you'd not only have more wire by adding the dist block, you'd have more wire - of a smaller gauge, to boot.

People say "hook the cap up to the mono amp only" etc, but in reality, it's still part of the same circuit, regardless. As long as it's the same distance to your mono amp in either situation, increasing the distance between the cap and your other amps, wont have any positive effect. (In example one, there is a foot between the cap and your mono amp, and your other amp, whereas in example 2, there's a foot between your mono amp, and 3 feet between your cap and other amp.)


Mo - I'd stick with the way your installer did it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3427
Registered: Feb-05
I see what your saying. Isaac what do you think ?

I kind of liked the idea of the distribution block since its digital and holds 2 fuses. I got it from knukonceptz.com
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 11474
Registered: Dec-03
no problem using the cap as a distribution point.
ou can even buy cap-top distro blocks. I have one I believe, sitting in my parts bins.
Tsunami makes them if I remember.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3428
Registered: Feb-05
Does using a cap for both amps cause any noise to come thru to the speakers. Because when i go from volume 0 to 1, i can hear some stereo sound that sounds like very low channel static which im sure is commen but im not 100% sure. I cant notice it once the volume is over 5.

Just curious because when i had the cap running only to the ppi art before i got the 1500-xxk sub amp it was fine.

Here is before and after pics.


With the cap going only to the ppi a600.2
Upload

Cap to both amps hidden behind the amp rack.
Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3429
Registered: Feb-05
could be signal noise but its hardly noticeable once you get past volume 5 or so. When i go from 0 to 1 i can hear small amount of noise.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 5434
Registered: Nov-04
It could be the ground loop problem. One way to find out is to disconnect the Arc amp, and then listen to PPI.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3430
Registered: Feb-05
What exactly is a ground loop. I just here a small amount of interferance comming into the signal when i go from 0 to 1 volume. As i raise the volume i cannot hear it since the music over powers but i dont like how its there anyways. Im sure you know what im talking about. I was thinking its a ground problem also.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3431
Registered: Feb-05
How should i have the guy rewire it all. I have that distribution block that accepts 1/0 in and 2 4 gauge outs.

I rather just have the cap go only to the subamp.

Explain the best way to rewire this so i can explain how i want it done tommorow when i see him.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3432
Registered: Feb-05
OK i went out to the car and disconnected the power line going into the arc amp and no more signal noise when i have it at low volume. When i go from 0 to 1 its quite now.

Now how should i have him rewire this all so that it does not cause noise again ?
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 5435
Registered: Nov-04
Tell the guy to install the cap only on the sub amp, and have the PPI amp it's own ground, not shared with Arc.
If the installer's any good, he should be able to get rid of the ground loop problem.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 5436
Registered: Nov-04
Actually ignore the separate ground for PPI. Let the installer figure it out. That way, he can't blame you. Just memtion that you have a ground loop issue with his install.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3433
Registered: Feb-05
thanks for the tip isaac. I will need to use the distribution block for this right ? Looks like he used 8 gauge wire from the cap to the amps. Should i have him do 4 gauge or is 8 gauge enough since the lead is 1/0 gauge ?
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 5437
Registered: Nov-04
8 gauge is a bit too thin. How long is it? Less than 8"?
For PPI, it is fine, but for the sub, make it at least 4 gauge.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3434
Registered: Feb-05
Ok so i want to run the main power lead 1/0 to the distribution block.

Then from the Distribution Block you run 1 8 gauge power line to the ppi amp and 1 4 gauge to the CAP and from the cap to the Arc Amp ?

Then use a seperate ground for the ppi amp and that should solve the problem ?

Does that sound right.
 

Silver Member
Username: Fandim

Reno, Nevada United State...

Post Number: 859
Registered: Jun-05
Have him use 4 gauge for both. Will look more uniform, and have absolutely no disadvantages when it comes to performance.

The ground loop issue... heh.. Well, just tell them to fix it, see what they do.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3435
Registered: Feb-05
Ever since i removed the power wire from the arc amp, the minimal noise that i heard is completely gone.
 

Silver Member
Username: Fandim

Reno, Nevada United State...

Post Number: 860
Registered: Jun-05
Even after reconnecting it?
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3444
Registered: Feb-05
no its just hanging out. I havent reconnected it. I believe if i do it will cause sparks and go back to noise. I havent reconnected it yet until i have it checked out this saturday. Im taking it to a bestbuy that actually has really good installers. The master installer of the shop sound knowledgeable over the phone and even has his info listed at the12volt.com

The guy who installed the arc amp says it makes noise because it pulls alot of current.... IM not sure if that is true or not. IM just worried that if the next installer rewires everything with the cap to the subamp and ppi amp seperate that it may cause noise again. Is it a ground problem ? If so why did it the noise go away when i removed the power wire from the arc amp that goes to the same distribution point/cap.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 5447
Registered: Nov-04
MO, the noise you hear is due to ground loop problem.

"Ground loop is a condition where an unintended connection to ground is made through an interfering electrical conductor. Generally ground loop connection exists when an electrical system is connected through more than one way to the electrical ground.
When two or more devices are connected to a common ground through different paths, a ground loop occurs. Currents flow through these multiple paths and develop voltages which can cause damage, noise or 50Hz/60Hz hum in audio or video equipment. To prevent ground loops, all signal grounds need to go to one common point and when two grounding points cannot be avoided, one side must isolate the signal and grounds from the other."

Trust me, I've had that problem with my install also. It takes time to trace and fix it, but it's not impossible.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3449
Registered: Feb-05
So its better to ground both amps at the same place right ? Thats how it was done originally but i guess its not the best ground. I think he grounded it under the back seat where the seats are connected to the chassis of the car from what i remember him telling me. He says he cleaned out any paint etc.. Should i just have it grounded somwhere else and if so where. Its better to avoid 2 seperate grounds huh ? let me know
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 5452
Registered: Nov-04
By the look of it, it's not grounded well since you're getting ground loop noise.
Since you paid money to have it installed, have them fix it. Behind the seat isn't always the best contact. I've had to make my own in the trunk with better contacts.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3453
Registered: Feb-05
So you whould have drill a hole in your trunk somwhere then and use a bolt to hold it down after you have taken the paint off. Isnt it suppose to be under 1 ohm load for a good ground using a DMM ?
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 5456
Registered: Nov-04
In my trunk, there were some steel frames, so I used that as my ground for the d block. Used a much better screw and washer with a nut.
You can't measure a "good ground" with DMM. It'll just show 0 ohm. If however, you're lucky enough to have a device that measures 1/1000th of an ohm, then it's possible.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3454
Registered: Feb-05
Thanks for the help. Ill let you know how it goes somtime tommorow.
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