Do RCA cables make a difference in sound quality?
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New member Username: Quick_94gtPost Number: 4 Registered: Mar-06 | a frind of mine swears that the rca's dont make a difference in sound quality, if they do then what are good cables to buy? also he gave me some no name brand 4 guage cable for my directed 1100d, should i invest in better wire also? does it make a difference? i have a Alpine Iva-d300 dvd head unit, alpine type r 5x7's alpine type r 12's the directed 1100d for bass, and a directed 250/4 for the highs, i have some cheap rca's and fosgate 8 guage power and ground cables now. |
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Gold Member Username: TjmutlowPost Number: 1813 Registered: Sep-05 | rca will make a difference, Best Answer: "Don't spend money on expensive audio cables or speaker wires until you read this article." Audio Cables: Fact & Fiction |
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New member Username: Quick_94gtPost Number: 6 Registered: Mar-06 | what are some good ones? Stinger Helix??? |
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Silver Member Username: N2audioLawrence, Ks USA Post Number: 752 Registered: Mar-04 | Do RCA cables make a difference in sound quality? Only if they're broken, or unusually susceptible to noise. Cables can do nothing to "increase" sound quality, but in some rare cases they can be designed so poorly that they pick up noise, or make poor connections. I bought some $10 shielded twisted pair Boss cables 5-6 yrs ago that have worked great - noise free. They've lost some flexibility over the years so I purchased some $10 Sound Quest (By Stinger) unshielded twisted pairs that work great as well. Helix's are, and certainly look good but shields are pointless and IMO not worth paying for. My preference in the stinger line would be the Hypers. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 11446 Registered: Dec-03 | no cables don't really make a difference if they're triple-shielded or twisted pair. they'll reject noise either way and carry an electrical signal from one device to another. don't fall prey to the "magic cable" myth. |
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New member Username: Quick_94gtPost Number: 9 Registered: Mar-06 | thanks for the info guys i will keep my sting pro stuff then.  more money somewhere else... |
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Silver Member Username: Matt12490Benicia, California USA Post Number: 491 Registered: May-05 | but you should replace those 8 gauge wires you have now with the 4 gauge ones your friend gave you. |
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Silver Member Username: VinnyqhPortland, OR Post Number: 197 Registered: Nov-05 | i would beg to differ on the wires, true they will never MAKE the sound better, BUT they will keep the signal more "clear" if you get better cables |
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Gold Member Username: B101Queen City, NC USA Post Number: 2158 Registered: Sep-05 | "no cables don't really make a difference if they're triple-shielded or twisted pair. they'll reject noise either way and carry an electrical signal from one device to another. don't fall prey to the "magic cable" myth. " GW ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ LOL^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "only if theyre tripple shielded or twisted pair" << snuck that one in... |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 11457 Registered: Dec-03 | audioquest SELLS cables. Try using an unbiased reference. Richard Clark issued a challenge that offered $5000 cash to anybody who could prove cables make a difference. He still has his money. |
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Silver Member Username: N2audioLawrence, Ks USA Post Number: 756 Registered: Mar-04 | there's so much techno voodoo in that article it's laughable. |
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Silver Member Username: Graphix1Santa Rosa Heights, Arima Trinidad & T... Post Number: 822 Registered: Oct-05 | i never belived anything about higher quality cables will give you more sound quality.. im about to go pick up some rcas and wiring just now |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 520 Registered: Jan-06 | It definitely can help to run them separate from your power wire though. A large gauge power wire that is touching your RCA's can add signal noise. Especially if they cheaped out on the shielding of either one. Also, I originally had 8 gauge power (my original amp was only 300w) and I added my 1000 watt amp using the same power cables; needless to say, the voltage dipped continuously, and it wasn't very loud. After I upgraded to 4 gauge, the dimming under constant bass was much less severe, and the bass was noticeably louder. |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 521 Registered: Jan-06 | Good choice in equipment btw. |
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Silver Member Username: N2audioLawrence, Ks USA Post Number: 761 Registered: Mar-04 | shields do nothing for ELF (audio frequency) EMI, which is what your power wire generates. That's why UTP's have become so common. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 11465 Registered: Dec-03 | "It definitely can help to run them separate from your power wire though. A large gauge power wire that is touching your RCA's can add signal noise. Especially if they cheaped out on the shielding of either one." another myth. the ratio of signal to current is direct, and as such, at a low enough volume to detect any noise you might get by running the power and signal lines together you won't have enough urrent draw to produce audible noise. This is a ommon misconception, though. What does actually cause noise in signal lines is running them too close to crossovers, or ignition lines that have large amounts of inductance. This, again, was also challenged and demonstrated by Navone and Clark. |
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Silver Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 314 Registered: Dec-05 | one tip: never say glasswolf is wrong. |
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Bronze Member Username: TonPost Number: 37 Registered: Jul-05 | yep, he know his stuffs |
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Silver Member Username: N2audioLawrence, Ks USA Post Number: 764 Registered: Mar-04 | "What does actually cause noise in signal lines is running them too close to crossovers, or ignition lines that have large amounts of inductance." Avoid your heater box too. The AC blower motor is a horrible noise source |
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New member Username: Quick_94gtPost Number: 10 Registered: Mar-06 | im running my rca's under from the passenger seat to the trunk and the power wire on the driver side to the trunk, i have 4 gauge no name brand power cable, should i swich to some good power cable then? it says 4 guage but it seems like it's all insulation, it seems it has the same amount of wire as my fosgate 8 gauge power wire just with more insulation. |
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New member Username: ZoopunkFresno, California USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Apr-06 | iv got a question i ahve an interfire amp heres is a link |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 5881 Registered: May-04 | Consider that your entire vehicle chassis is a ground plane, which means it carries a voltage potential. Putting an RCA beside a power cable is no worse than laying it on the floor of the vehicle (which 99% of people do). |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 528 Registered: Jan-06 | "Induced noise through RCA's: When a wire has current through it, a magnetic field circles around it (i.e electromagnets). Conversely, if there is a magnetic field perpendicular to a wire, current will be induced. If you have your RCA wires going from the radio or equalizer to the amp running in parallel to your power wires, an AC current will be induced and added to the sound signal. The sound signal travelling to the amp is a low voltage signal (in the mV range - thousands of a volt). The induced signal will be amplified along with the music. Avoiding this problem is very simple: DON'T run power and RCA wires together. If there are points in which they do have to cross, try to place them perpendicular to each other. Run the power wire from the battery to the amp on one side of the car, and the RCA wires along the other side of the car. On most cars it is better to run RCA's on the passenger's side, and power wires on the driver's side. Note that noise may be also be induced by factory harnesses, car computers and other electronic equipment." Straight from carstereo.com, and I'm sure I could find more sites that say the same. So, whats the deal here, seems to me that it would be better safe than sorry. It's a huge pain in the azz to try to fix electrical noise after-the-fact... Not saying you guys are wrong, but can you clear this up? |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 529 Registered: Jan-06 | Or here at http://www.termpro.com/articles/noise.html The ten commandments, first one: I. The best cure is prevention. (My P.O.V.) III. Never run signal wires alongside power cables. This is especially true in installations where high powered amplifiers are used. Large amplifiers are capable of drawing large currents. These currents vary with the musical demand of the program material as does the electromagnetic field surrounding the power cable. The more current that flows through the wire, the bigger this field becomes. If audio cables are located in close proximity to this fluctuating electromagnetic field, noise could be induced into the system. And so on and so forth; again, I am newer to this than you guys and will not doubt your expertise, so what's the deal here? |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 530 Registered: Jan-06 | Sorry heres the link from the first quote: |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 11472 Registered: Dec-03 | thought I already cleared it up. it's a myth spread by people who don't know any better. As I already mentioned, the current drawn through the power and ground lines is directly proportional to the volume of the system. At volumes low enough to hear any signal noise, you're not drawing enough current through the power lines to affect the signal interconnects. Richard Clark still has a challenge offered with a cash reward to anyone who can prove otherwise. yes perpendicular lines can induce noise, IF the current or voltage is strong enough, but in this case we're talking 12VDC and current I already covered. Not enough to matter until you get the signal lines close to a crossover or the ignition system. The amplifier power lines won't induce noise. |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 543 Registered: Jan-06 | Do you have a link to the Richard Clark bit? I'm planning the perfect system for my new car, and want to be sure that everything is installed as perfect as theoretically possible. (No dimming lights, no signal noise whatsoever, no turn on thump, etc..) |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 544 Registered: Jan-06 | (You know, the kind of perfection and attention to detail that an installer would only go through if it was his own vehicle) |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 545 Registered: Jan-06 | I just googled the subject, read Richard Clark's comments, and here is what I've found: A) You couldn't prove him wrong with subwoofers, because they don't really reproduce the noise. B) The only reason nobody proved him wrong is because it would cost way more time and money to prove him wrong that the reward is worth. Heres how you prove him wrong. Take Steve Meade's truck. He has multiple runs of 1/0 gauge coming from 2 300 amp alternators. Then you purchase the worst RCA's you can find, (cheaper is not necessarily worse, because cheaper cables add MORE shielding, to make up for the lack of wire.) Next you run the RCA's through the middle of all runs of power wire, and zip tie them in a tight formation. Even at 1 volume, there is going to be noise. C) "Consider that your entire vehicle chassis is a ground plane, which means it carries a voltage potential. Putting an RCA beside a power cable is no worse than laying it on the floor of the vehicle (which 99% of people do)." - The vehicle chassis spreads the current througout the entire metal vehicle structure, which isn't going to produce the same intensity field that a single, large gauge power wire has. Most important for last: D) While you most definitely can get signal noise to affect your RCA's, there are so many non real world circumstances that would need to happen, that, for all intents and purposes, you would never run into this problem in a real world install. Nobody is going to run the kind of power necessary, and have dinky, barely shielded RCA's. So in conclusion, if you are running just subwoofers, there would never be any reason to run your RCA separate from your power, because the difference is on an undetectable level. I'm still going to run mine separate, but that's just because I'm a perfectionist, and I believe that my peace of mind is worth more than the little extra time you can save by running everything together... |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 548 Registered: Jan-06 | But all that is based on the words and opinions of many car audio enthusiasts who claim it does not matter. The facts say that running them next to eachother does add signal noise, and in a high powered system, I really don't care what anyone "says", I am going to run all my wiring down the best path available. I also think this thread should be sticky, so that everyone else who comes to this bridge, can be aware of the 2 sides to the issue. There are many people who swear that when they rerouted their power wire that most if not all of the signal noise went away. Then there are people who obviously know a lot about electronics who say that it's a myth and that there is no audible difference. Whatever, I feel like I'm just pissing off all the "experts", and this thread will never be made sticky, so I'll just stop... |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 549 Registered: Jan-06 | Saying that it won't add noise is the same as personally vouching for the quality of every RCA cable out there... What is the benefit of running them together? Saving yourself a small amount of time (15 minutes?), for a sound system that not only cost you a small fortune, but also countless hours of time and energy (blood sweat and tears for some). What is the benefit of running them separate? Knowing for a fact that you will have no noise from your power cable. They instruct installers to run signal and power separate in the MECP handbook. The guy at bcae1.com recommends it too. Would you take your brand new Rolls Royce through a conventional car wash because somebody tells you it's OK? Or do you have it hand washed and professionally detailed. The choice is up to you. OK now I'll stop. |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 894 Registered: Oct-04 | ok, now on every install i do i'm going to wrap the rca's around the power cables as many times as i can cause it won't affect it at all. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 5885 Registered: May-04 | Pick up your telephone and make a long distance phone call to any destination you wish, Japan if you like. Note the crystal clear reception. Now, think about the fact that this phone line has been snaked around numerous power lines for a large majority of this phone transmission. What method of prevention do they use? Only thing they have is twisted pair wiring. Shame on the enthusiast that can't run 10 foot of wire without getting noise. About shielded wire, shielded wire is WORSE than a non-shielded wire for noise rejection in a car audio application. Shielded wires are foil wrapped, in which that foil is connected to the shield (ground) of the RCA cable. This shielding started with radio and high frequency transmission, and in that application induced RF noise is captured by the shield and shunted out of the signal path. However, in your car, (assuming it were really a problem to begin with) that large metal foil provides the center conductor of your RCA with more surface area, increasing the likelihood of ground loops. Simple twisted pair RCAs are all you need, don't buy into the triple shielded BS. "The only reason nobody proved him wrong is because it would cost way more time and money to prove him wrong that the reward is worth. Heres how you prove him wrong. Take Steve Meade's truck. He has multiple runs of 1/0 gauge coming from 2 300 amp alternators. Then you purchase the worst RCA's you can find, (cheaper is not necessarily worse, because cheaper cables add MORE shielding, to make up for the lack of wire.) Next you run the RCA's through the middle of all runs of power wire, and zip tie them in a tight formation. Even at 1 volume, there is going to be noise." You make $10,000 with a few hours of your time. Can you make $10,000 in a day, sitting in a car listening to music at that? "Heres how you prove him wrong. Take Steve Meade's truck. He has multiple runs of 1/0 gauge coming from 2 300 amp alternators. Then you purchase the worst RCA's you can find, (cheaper is not necessarily worse, because cheaper cables add MORE shielding, to make up for the lack of wire.) Next you run the RCA's through the middle of all runs of power wire, and zip tie them in a tight formation. Even at 1 volume, there is going to be noise." Which is the exact same thing everybody else has said since the beginning of the challenge. But, humorously, none have the gumption to go prove their claims. "C) "The vehicle chassis spreads the current througout the entire metal vehicle structure, which isn't going to produce the same intensity field that a single, large gauge power wire has. " A chassis is no different than a power wire. It carries with it the same if not more potential, and is completely irrespective of the location of the wiring within the vehicle. Consider that a chassis is actually a poor conductor compared to a power wire, which makes matters even worse. |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 897 Registered: Oct-04 | "Now, think about the fact that this phone line has been snaked around numerous power lines for a large majority of this phone transmission" the telephone wires have to be seperated from the power. they are below the power lines and it has to be by so many feet. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 5886 Registered: May-04 | "the telephone wires have to be seperated from the power. they are below the power lines and it has to be by so many feet." There is no set standard regulation for it, not applicable to all locations anyway. Phone lines are very often placed quite close to power lines. That's the reason spikes/surges from high power like lightning can transmit to power Lines are coupled with phone lines. Sometimes phone lines are placed in parallel with power lines, but not as often. |
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Silver Member Username: N2audioLawrence, Ks USA Post Number: 773 Registered: Mar-04 | "ok, now on every install i do i'm going to wrap the rca's around the power cables as many times as i can cause it won't affect it at all." It's been done, in an ATTEMPT to INDUCE noise - that was the point of the experiment. With all other variables removed. High current audio pwr wire could NOT produce noise in signal (rca) wires. It has never been proven otherwise in the abscence of all other variables. |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 901 Registered: Oct-04 | Johnathan I used to work for the power company as an inspector for such things. There is a set standard. |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 550 Registered: Jan-06 | Well, I can find dozens of articles from repectable sources that recommend running the signal and power separate. I can't find any articles that say it's a myth. The only people saying that it's a myth are people on message boards. Even RC himself agrees that the power DOES add noise to your RCAs, however, at a level that is always masked by the corresponding volume of the music... Really, it all comes down to the fact that making an RCA with enough shielding is a task that every wire manufacturer out there should be able to do reliably and without fail, but these types of chances are just not worth taking, to me, my system is more important. I invest too much time to not do everything in theoretically the best way possible. |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 551 Registered: Jan-06 | Haven't you ever heard a sound system that sounded so perfect it made you get a half chub? You know that indescribable magic sensation that you get when you are completely at the mercy of the song, and you can't do anything but marvel at how right this second, during this song, you couldn't possibly want to be anywhere else in the world (except maybe boning Jessica Alba). Well, having ZERO noise whatsoever (whether it's consciously noticeable or not) MUST add to this illusive "magical" sensation that you get when you are engulfed in total sensory perfection. I have only felt this sensation in a home theater system, and am pursuing it in it's mobile form. The human brain is infinitely more complex than we will probably ever know, and there are subconscious things in music that affect how it makes us feel, whether we consciously perceive them or not. I'm in pursuit of what I like to call, the PMB. That Pure Musical Bliss. |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 902 Registered: Oct-04 | The fluctuations in current on the power wire create a magnetic field that WILL be induced by ANY nearby conductors. The farther away from the source the less it picks up. The only argument is how minute it is and even if you will notice it being reproduced by the speaker. I know that I prefer to keep as much noise out of my signal source as possible. I wouldn't want to waste precious volts reproducing noise. |
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Silver Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 335 Registered: Dec-05 | Glasswolf= wins!!!!!!!!! |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 905 Registered: Oct-04 | Lewass u r right. I researched in references instead of peoples opinions. It's a fact. |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 906 Registered: Oct-04 | This is a no-brainer |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 5887 Registered: May-04 | "Johnathan I used to work for the power company as an inspector for such things. There is a set standard." It isn't a national standard. Many are enforced by city/county ordinances, but there isn't a strict standard for all power lines. |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 909 Registered: Oct-04 | FCC sets standards and REGULATES |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 5888 Registered: May-04 | "FCC sets standards and REGULATES" The FCC ONLY, and I repeat, ONLY regulates at the federal level and by public utility commissions at the state level. Telephone systems may generally be owned and operated by a partnership, an individual, or a corporation, and are NOT regulated by the FCC. The Communications Act of 1934 establishes a dual system of state and federal regulation for telecommunications services. The act grants the FCC broad authority, but also clearly delineates a strict separation between inter-state and intrastate JURISDICTION, and denies the FCC authority over most intrastate communications. Your phone service is dependant upon both your local telephone company or your public utilities commission, NOT the FCC. Speaking of that, the FCC doesn't even regulate the telephone itself, or the design of telephone equipment. The FCC's role in telephone interference is limited to providing technical information and recommendations. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 11481 Registered: Dec-03 | lucas; worked for the telco in Japan? interesting. Lewass, f your mind is made up to ignore information presented to you, then just STFU and do whatever you want to do anyway, but stop wasting our time and trolling the forum with these questions if you're going to refuse to listen to the responses, and stick to your own assumptions nd beliefs. This is just getting old. I could go through as John did and pick apart all of your arguments, and then you'll just ignore the answers again and respout the same drivel, yet again. Ya know what? Run the cables separately. Nobody really cares. I can find you a bunch of articles that say smaller subs are by default faster, too. Doesn't make it right. Just makes it a common misconception. |
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Gold Member Username: B101Queen City, NC USA Post Number: 2221 Registered: Sep-05 | to think this simple thread would last this long... I ran my rcas with the pwr together, and seperated... couldnt notice a difference at all... Acutally I NEVER had "noise" in any of my installs...  I also did alot of freakin installs.... I would worry more about faulty grounds in the system... Lewass u can have a bunch of theories, they are... but acutall performance is what I care for.. |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 913 Registered: Oct-04 | Man Glasswolf getting cranky in your old age huh?? Whats the matter no come to visit you in the retirement home this week? |
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Silver Member Username: N2audioLawrence, Ks USA Post Number: 782 Registered: Mar-04 | it's a myth that lives on because those that profess it aren't smart enough to take 30 sec to understand the cause and how it applies to audible noise. Do what you want - it certainly won't hurt to seperate them. |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 561 Registered: Jan-06 | "Lewass, f your mind is made up to ignore information presented to you, then just STFU and do whatever you want to do anyway, but stop wasting our time and trolling the forum with these questions if you're going to refuse to listen to the responses, and stick to your own assumptions nd beliefs. " Glasswolf, guess what, you basically just said "Agree with me, or STFU, and quit wasting our time" - this is one thread, in one barely used section of this board. If you don't want to read it then DON'T. I take in ALL of the information presented to me. I am not making assumptions, I have researched this, have read and entertained both sides of the issue. But like I said before, after it is all said and done, the FACT remains: " I can find dozens of articles from repectable sources that recommend running the signal and power separate. I can't find any articles that say it's a myth. The only people saying that it's a myth are people on message boards. " Whether the chances of having noise are 1 in 10, or 1 in 10,000; I'll run mine separate, because that is the BEST way to do it. |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 914 Registered: Oct-04 | Running RCA's next to power wires will induce noise if there are fluctuations in the current. Weather or not it is audible is the question. Most likely not. |
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Gold Member Username: B101Queen City, NC USA Post Number: 2225 Registered: Sep-05 | if its not audible we could care less about the noise... thats why it wouldnt even matter to braid the 2 wires together with the power... I think its very much so a myth... just like "break-in subs" myth meanin also pointless u could breakin all your subs for 5mnths if u want too... u can also run pwr wires seperately, and in a gourment or better yet $100 rcas... would u notice any diffrence?? "pointless" my2cents.. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 5432 Registered: Nov-04 | Okay, here's my 2 cents worth. It'll be quite hard to pick up noise via RCA cable nowdays. Most of them are designed well. When you do pick up noise, it's usually related to ground loop problem. Subs operate around 120Hz or lower. The humming/noise you pickup/hear are around 750Hz or higher. Therefore, in sub application, it really doesn't make any difference. |
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Silver Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 341 Registered: Dec-05 | again Glasswolf wins, don't argue with him! |
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Silver Member Username: N2audioLawrence, Ks USA Post Number: 786 Registered: Mar-04 | yeah, but if you argue with him enough he'll eventually just give up then at least you can FEEL like you won. |
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Moderator Username: AdminPost Number: 1273 Registered: Dec-03 | Helpful advice: Audio Cables - Fact & Fiction Revealed |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 5438 Registered: Nov-04 | Nice link admin. Hope people will read it. |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 916 Registered: Oct-04 | Jonathan its the NESC that enforces the codes not the FCC. My bad. |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 563 Registered: Jan-06 | Isaac: Word. (That means affirmative) But I was never talking about just subwoofers, I am talking about a full system that is theoretically perfect. Julio (Peanut Gallery): This was never an arguement, but rather a debate, and if that is all you have to offer, then please read and don't write. B: Your subs are so monstrously loud that I doubt your hearing is still good enough to hear a subtle noise anyways... I don't understand how anyone thinks that the side with no evidence, no references, and no proof whatsoever is the winner. Because a few knowledgeable people state their opinion, I lose? No. There is no evidence for the opposing side, and in a debate, that means, you lose. The internet is a huge vast resource, and you can't find anything documented to back up your point? Come on. Show me something.. I searched through those Cable Articles and couldn't find anything about this topic.. |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 922 Registered: Oct-04 | Word Lewass. Word. I don't think that Glasswolf is considered a reference nor are his cheerleaders. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 11486 Registered: Dec-03 | "Man Glasswolf getting cranky in your old age huh?? Whats the matter no come to visit you in the retirement home this week?" only your mom, lucas, and that was fairly disappointing, to say the least Lewass I don't care if you listen to me, or anyone else really, but you ask questions, you're presented with objective data, and you dispute it and go right on asking the same things over and over. It gets tiring seeing you ask the same thing repeatedly when it never sinks in. It wastes peoples' time. I'm not telling you to listen to me or STFU.. I think at the point of my posting that one reply, I was just pretty much saying please, STFU regardless of what else you choose to do or believe. You're not offering any objective data to refute the facts presented to you. You're just making statements to the effect of, "you're wrong because a lot of other people say so." This proves nothing, and only succeeds in dragging out this thread to the point of nagging, bickering, and semantics in no particular order. Jonathan and myself have provided pretty solid objective reasons to explain why noise isn't induced by 12 volt power wires for an audio system, and even provided information on what actually does induce noise. Beyond that I don't know what you require. |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 931 Registered: Oct-04 | WOW!! Your the man Glasswolf. Did you come up with that momma joke all by yourself? How original. We never did that in middle school, but we would of been alot cooler if we had. Your so clever. |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 932 Registered: Oct-04 | Oh wow again Glasswolf. I see that you have 11,000 some post in a little over 2 years. How do you find the time? Oh thats right. Your all wet, your washed up, and too old. Get a life man, please. For your familys sake get off the fackin computer. |
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Silver Member Username: AlteraudiousaConcord Post Number: 561 Registered: Jan-06 | ok put it this way, for what we'd spend on cables, there is no difference. When you buy into the higher cables like TARA LABs( one of their RCAs or component cables are like 3k for a 3meter) maybe maybe if you have a very discerning ear will you hear a difference. Right now I run some 15 ft 15$ Daytona Premium RCAs and I love them. They are just like my Knukonceptz and better than the Monster's I had. So unless you have thousands to spend on something made of alien technology you won't hear a difference. Just make sure they had good shielding, a good set of locking or tight ends and aren't pink or something. |
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Silver Member Username: LewassBoomfield Hills, MI USA Post Number: 582 Registered: Jan-06 | That is one of the benefits of owning your own business, Lucas. Being able to control your own destiny and choose what to do with your time. Which does make me see it a bit differently, Glasswolf chooses to be on this forum, helping everyone out, when there are countless other things he could be doing with his time... I do see your point Glasswolf, and I also see why you were getting a little irritated with me. I was just trying to get to the bottom of this topic, that is all. Unfortunately I don't think there is much documentation out there about this being a myth because there are so many good points to the contrary. I think the real reason all these sites recommend running them separate is because it can't hurt, and in theory should help, so they are in essence just "covering all the bases". I think a good way to sum it all up is: In theory, running your power and signal wires together could induce noise. However, in practice, this noise is almost always on such a small scale, it is undetectable to the human ear. For the average consumer, installing subwoofers, run all wiring down the drivers side, you'll never tell the difference. For the audiophile running a full system, run the power down the driver's side, and the signal down a different path, because you probably won't be able to fit large 0 gauge wiring AND 3 sets of RCA's and speaker wire under the same trim anyways. You also have the added peace of mind that zero noise is being induced, whether you can hear it or not. |
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Silver Member Username: LbecknerTulsa, Ok Usa Post Number: 937 Registered: Oct-04 | Glasswolf I apoligize. It's not worth getting all worked up about. We'll just have to agree to disagree. |
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Silver Member Username: JuliobSanto DomingoDominican Re... Post Number: 355 Registered: Dec-05 | lewass, i can write all i want, this is a forum, and you lost so don't take it on me because you don't know about cables, they don't make a difference ok? the difference will be in durability, not in sound quality! |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 11493 Registered: Dec-03 | note I'm not having a good week. had surgery on wednesday, so I'm a bit temperamental right now. anyway, I've seen those cables like Tara, Kimber, and Traansparent at a grand per meter, and honestly it's a rip off. You won't hear any difference between those and some decent $20 knu or streetwirez cables with UTP. That's been proven numerous times, since all the interconnect does is carry an electrical signal from source to destination, and things like inductance are so low they're only measureable on paper anyway. Not audible. As for noise in the lines, I'll simply leave it at saying that my belief and experience is that you can generally run power and signal lines together without audible noise. What will almost guarantee noise however, is running signal lines near your ignition system lines (spark plugs, coil, distributor) or crossovers with large amounts of power going through coils in close proximity (think component set XO modules.) There are other things that can induce noise, but in most instances, you can, if needed, run the two together and not have problems from what I've witnessed, and what my education leads me to believe. Others are welcome to disagree, and if you are unsure, and you have the ability to separate power and signal, then by all means, don't hesitate to do so, and eliminate any doubt in your mind. |
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Gold Member Username: B101Queen City, NC USA Post Number: 2236 Registered: Sep-05 | lew-a.s.s STFU & stop dragin this thread! your summary is what we been sayin the entire thread.. |
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Gold Member Username: Suleman36Maryland U.S.A. Post Number: 3459 Registered: Feb-05 | Does anyone remember these streetwires from like 1999-2000 / Just remembered i had some left. Any good ?  |
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Gold Member Username: B101Queen City, NC USA Post Number: 2241 Registered: Sep-05 | still very good, I would say. |
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Silver Member Username: AlteraudiousaConcord Post Number: 564 Registered: Jan-06 | i used those for a while, nice but they get a nasty film on them if they get moisture say in the trunk. |
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