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Out of the kindness of your heart?

 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1362
Registered: Aug-05
Well, it happened again, my friend murdered me with his Kicker CVR's in a slot-ported enclosure. Even with the Assassins. My sealed enclosure just can't cut it anymore.

Now, I could do what he did and go spend $150 on an enclosure at the local audio shop or...

Could someone share a design with me that would work well with these Assassins? I know they're capable of getting louder than CVR's but without the Airspace, I don't think it can happen!

I don't need anyone to MAKE me the enclosure, just share the design. The assembly of it shouldn't be much trouble at all.

I'd appreciate your help, thank you!
 

Silver Member
Username: Terry6405

Sullivan, IN US

Post Number: 375
Registered: Sep-05
what is your maximum width and hight
 

Gold Member
Username: Southernrebel

Monroe, Louisiana USA

Post Number: 2265
Registered: Mar-04
what vehicle/amp does he have?
what vehicle/amp do you have?

 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1364
Registered: Aug-05
I have an Audiobahn A8000T, 2002 Mercury Cougar Sport.

He has a (not sure on model) but Kicker 350W X 2 Kicker amplifier (not sure on his VC config, but he gets 350W RMS to each woofer). His car's a Toyota Camry.

http://www.accelerator-pedal.com/ported-box.asp?Ew=35&Eh=22&Dia=6&Xmax=15.5&Vd=2 &NumW=2&Vb=4&Fb=32&Qts=.372&Vas=2&Fs=23.1&CE=1.5

I tried messing around with that, but I don't think that's quite right at all...
 

Silver Member
Username: Terry6405

Sullivan, IN US

Post Number: 376
Registered: Sep-05
http://www.accelerator-pedal.com/ported-box.asp?Ew=32&Eh=16&Dia=6&Xmax=15.5&Vd=. 13&NumW=2&Vb=3.75&Fb=32&Qts=&Vas=&Fs=&CE=0

put the subs on the red bord but they will be a little close together

this box sould work if you can fit it, i had to guess on the driver displacement
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1365
Registered: Aug-05
My bad, guys.

http://ascendantaudio.com/assassin12specs.html

There's the complete spec. sheet!
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 5644
Registered: May-04
"Could someone share a design with me that would work well with these Assassins? I know they're capable of getting louder than CVR's but without the Airspace, I don't think it can happen!"

Not really. You're looking for SPL to be on par at best. Sorry to be blunt, but the Assassins aren't going to be substantially better than CVRs. They'll be neck and neck in performance. That said, any advantage you have over him, or vice versa, is going to be dependant only upon implementing it well.

You need to email Ascendant about the displacement of the subwoofer to help you calculate the box size, but you may as well ask them for a recommendation while you're at it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdeaton1021

Near Tampa, Florida USA

Post Number: 2089
Registered: Sep-04
jonathan, you mean in SPL right? the assasins have better SQ than the CVRs dont they?
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1366
Registered: Aug-05
This is going to sound stupid, but a member of Team Toxic Bass told me that Ascendant's new line can handle more power than what is on the spec. sheet.

I don't think CVR's are built to take more than what's on the sheets, or at least not by much. The guy told me that implemented correctly in an optimum enclosure the new line COULD handle close to double the RMS values...True or not? I have no idea...

I'm actually looking for SQL, just in a lesser package than the Arsenal series. I don't necessarily want to beat my friend's system out or anything, but I'd like to be able to show that just because I don't buy the popular brands, that my subs. are garbagy.

As far as SQ though, shouldn't the Assassins pretty much stand out a good bit over a couple of CVR's however?

I've emailed Ascendant before about the subs. Afterall, the little slogan for these subs. is "HIGH OUTPUT SQ, THAT DESTROYS THE COMPETITION!"

Well, if it's high-output AND SQ, that makes it an SQL woofer of sorts right? And the CVR is in the same power handling bracket so to speak, so I should be able to "destroy the competition" hehe.

I know, kind of cheesey!

 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1367
Registered: Aug-05
I realize, that I can't go around taking on kids with L7's (aren't any around here anyways), but I should be able to outperform my friends with Volfenhags and Kicker CVRs I would hope. Especially in SQ...
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1368
Registered: Aug-05
Oh yea, doesn't the spec. sheet on AA's site I gave you guys have the displacement? I could swear it does...If so, how would that affect the enclosure design you gave me Terry?
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 5645
Registered: May-04
You have to ask yourself how much competition exists in the $75 price bracket. Sony Xplod? Lightning Audio? CVR retails higher than that as far as price comparisons are concerned, but regardless, neither sub is going to blow the other away in any area. Pretty even playing field here.

Power bracket is irrelevant. The JL Audio W6v2 is in the same power bracket so to speak, and would walk all over the Assassin. But that's a given considering the price/construction difference.

The sub may take twice the power it's rated for, but the question is if it can make any use for it. In a ported box at tuning, this is yes, mechanically anyway. But outside of that range, you have to be careful since you may push the sub past linearity and potentially damage it.

If you want to beat someone in SPL, you want power, you want a ported box tuned high, and you want a sub that can cater itself to that. You're going to sacrifice SQ doing it that way. If Chad can give you a good recommendation for a SQL application, I'd stick with that. You will be able to match up with your friend and prove your point. I just doubt you're going to be able to blow him away so much that sells all his stuff in order to switch up.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1369
Registered: Aug-05
I see...Maybe I should have gone with the RE SE or Arsenal...

Oh well. I think the whole idea of the introductory prices is to promote large amounts of sales to get the word out. Not necessarily that AA has compnensated build quality or anything of the sort. But they're not popular enough to start charging prices like JL now are they? I mean, the hAvoc is an awesome woofer, and it's $425 a pop! Now, does that mean that it's better than a W7? Who knows, I've not heard one, but the power handling on the beast is quite formidable as well as the already given GOOD SQ. I can't say that I've heard JL quality SQ before, so I can't say whether AA can compare...

About Kicker retailing for more...Just as some background...My Volfenhags retail for more than the Assassins per woofer. So can retail value really say much?

One final thing, in an SQ comparison, which woofer has the greater advantage?
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1370
Registered: Aug-05
Oh, if I ask Chad for a SQL-type enclosure design, will I have to pay for it? Because AA is going to be offering enclosures, so I doubt they'll just willingly GIVE me a design.

That's kind of why I was hoping someone on here could use that little online calc. to help me design a pretty good SQL enclosure. I'm always on limited budget, so if I can save a penny here or there on something, it's welcome. Even buying a pair of the Assassins set me back a month or so in spending...
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 5646
Registered: May-04
"About Kicker retailing for more...Just as some background...My Volfenhags retail for more than the Assassins per woofer. So can retail value really say much? "

Which was my point-the fact that the Assassin performs well in the price bracket. More fair that way than comparing a power bracket.

"One final thing, in an SQ comparison, which woofer has the greater advantage?"

That's more a thing for you to evaluate. After all, your friend has CVRs, you have Assassins, no better way than to A/B them and develop your own preference. From what you've heard, what do you think so far?
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1371
Registered: Aug-05
Well I think that the Assassins have a more extended bandwidth, especially at the lowest of frequencies.
Although I can see where they're lacking a bit in the neccessary air-space needed to perform at optimum levels.

I'd say the sound quality is better, in the fact the CVR's have a bit of the "boom" that I don't prefer, where the Assassins have the "thud" I like .

I'm hoping though, that I don't compensate the SQ when going to a ported enclosure however. It's hard to compare really now though with him using a ported and myself using sealed. Only once I get a ported enclosure will a good comparison be made.

Could you take a look at the link that Terry posted about the enclosure design? I'll be adjusting the width (and therefore the height) of the enclosure to give me more room for the woofers. But given what's on the spec. sheet from AA would it work pretty well?

AA has reccommendations on their site for enclosure dimensions and tuning, but that's about it. I think they leave the rest up to the person...
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdeaton1021

Near Tampa, Florida USA

Post Number: 2092
Registered: Sep-04
yeah tyler, pick a few songs form rock rap country etc and listen to them on your assasins and then your friends CVRs. then tell us how the SQ compares.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1372
Registered: Aug-05
We did this tonight. He isn't much into rock or anything other than rap, so that was the only comparsion I could get from him.

We compared on one song in particular, Throw It Up.

The output was actually pretty similar, him being just a bit louder (probably that 3dB from porting). The SQ I would have to say was better from mine at the low end definitely, and still better all-around. I wish I had gotten to do some Soul Survivor by Young Jeezy. It's got some really low bass. Blueberry Yum Yum sounded a lot better on mine as well.

I think I've got plenty of low-end SQ over him, it's just I need the boost in air-space for some more performance SPL-wise.

If this tells you anything, I really like how my Cerwin Vega V-12F floorstanding speakers sound. They have dual 4" ports on each speaker, tuned to 28Hz. The sound is deep and ground shaking (literally). I don't think the Assassins can be ported the same, but if I could get that type of deep ported sound from them it would be great.

 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1373
Registered: Aug-05
Bump...Still need a good enclosure design lol. Unless the one Terry posted WILL in fact work.
 

Gold Member
Username: Rovin

Trinidad & T...

Post Number: 5844
Registered: Jul-05
Er - my comment on this thread would be (& honestly NO disrespect intended but) why would u care if ur friend system is louder than urs ?

IMO - if it sounds gr8 INSIDE ur car like u said when u just got them few wks back why bother if ur buddy is louder !? . After all music in ur car should be 4 u 2 listen . If u liked challenging ppl then like u said above u should have bought more powerful subs ......Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1375
Registered: Aug-05
I know I know. But I've got a reputation to keep up lol. I mean, I've got one of the nicest home sound systems of any of my friends (they have shelf systems) and here I sit with over $1.5K of home gear!!!

So I've proven my audio prowess in the home dept. now I'd like to prove it a bit in the car dept.

I've grown to like the sounds of both sealed and ported enclosures. But after buying my CV's for my room this year, ported has really attracted my attention, and I'd like to try it in a car environment. There's more to it than me trying to "out-bump" my friend hehe. Unlike a lot of my friends I have more knowledge about audio than simply what a spec. sheet says. And when I get outdone by something that really isn't a better piece of gear (IMO only) it bugs the heck out of me!!!
 

Gold Member
Username: 54danny54

Betsy layne, Kentucky..GO... USA duh

Post Number: 1819
Registered: Nov-04
"Oh, if I ask Chad for a SQL-type enclosure design, will I have to pay for it? Because AA is going to be offering enclosures, so I doubt they'll just willingly GIVE me a design. "

he will tell u how many cubes and an optimal tuning for it...he wont give u exact designs, chad is a good guy, give him a call about em and he can help ya
 

Gold Member
Username: 54danny54

Betsy layne, Kentucky..GO... USA duh

Post Number: 1820
Registered: Nov-04
if u have the money then make a box for each prolly around 2-3 cubes tuned at like 40-45Hz if u havent already
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1376
Registered: Aug-05
Wouldn't 40-45Hz be a bit high for SQL? That sounds like SPL tuning to me...
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1377
Registered: Aug-05
Bump!

 

Silver Member
Username: Baseball1187

Columbia, SC

Post Number: 602
Registered: Dec-04
Tyler, call Chad... tell him you want the most SPL you can get without giving up all of your SQ... come back here, and somebody will throw some plans together for you. I'd imagine he'll say 2-2.5 cubes tuned to around 35-38hz
 

Silver Member
Username: Terry6405

Sullivan, IN US

Post Number: 400
Registered: Sep-05
i think the one i said earilr is fine, i just used the size of my vmax which should be very close, wont matter enough to be able to tell the differecne anyways,

that will be fine unless you want a bigger box, but that is pretty big so..... make sure you can fit it b4 building,

i built a box of this site and it is very nice, loud and clear
 

Silver Member
Username: Dustin3

Tigard, Or U.S.

Post Number: 458
Registered: Oct-05
just to tell you tyler, i like the assasins and how they sound. This guy at my school has two 12 like you and is putting around 650 into both. my next door neighbor has 2 cvr's and is putting 700 watts into each subs and the rms is 400 on each cvr, so the cvr can take more than the rms. he has had them like this for around a year now, and his cvrs get way louder then the asassins with also 650 watts rms. The main point, like jon. said, you wont really be able to get as loud as them and dominate them, because it just wont happen. i like the asassins though, they are very clean
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1379
Registered: Aug-05
Well I emailed Chad (cheaper than long distance call lol) about the displacement. I'll probably have an answer SOMETIME tomorrow hopefully.

Bassman, what types of enclosures are both of your friends using? I'd really like to see that CVR setup, sounds pretty nuts lol. Just hard to imagine a CVR playing louder than the Assassin, when you compare the build quality of both, and how much more overbuilt an Assassin is than a CVR when really take a look at them. But I guess it happens.

http://www.accelerator-pedal.com/ported-box.asp?Ew=35&Eh=16&Dia=6&Xmax=15.5&Vd=. 13&NumW=2&Vb=4&Fb=32&Qts=.372&Vas=4.52&Fs=23.1&CE=1.5

There's the (edited) enclosure. Terry, I just increased the width of the box because I know I have at least 35" to spare in width.

I thought Jon. said they'd be neck and neck as far as loudness, and SQ would basically be by personal preference. I don't know though, we'll see what happens. May turn out mine get louder than his. Depends on the enclosure though.

Anyone know anything about transmission line or quarter wave enclosures? The TTB member told me those would give me the maximum output from the Assassins and still maintain SQ. I believe it's the type of enclosure that TTB uses on Realm Of Excursion...And we can all see that two of their Avalanches are incredible!
 

Silver Member
Username: Terry6405

Sullivan, IN US

Post Number: 403
Registered: Sep-05
looks good, i love that program, the guy who made it must be a genius
 

Gold Member
Username: James1115

Ct

Post Number: 5231
Registered: Dec-04
call chad thats the only way to get a solid answer. He will give you exact dimensions in inches. He designed my box for my avalanche over the phone with me. As far as a t-line enclosure I believe chad is going to be making them very soon.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdbdadrummer

Wellsburg, WV USA

Post Number: 1381
Registered: Aug-05
Well hopefully he wasn't HIGH when he made it lol. Jk!

I'm just going to wait for "actual" displacement before I go building it though. But other than that, it's a done deal.
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