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Who comes out on top in the "Underground"??

 

Bronze Member
Username: Ergodyne

Post Number: 32
Registered: Feb-06
Until recently i was almost a complete ignoramus in the Good/Bad department of car audio. Now i am just an ignoramus. There are a number of promising "underground" manufacturers out there like: Image Dynamics, TcSounds, SoundSplinter, Resonant Engineering,Treo, and i'm sure there are many more.
Given that many people have different tastes, like the crazy SPL guys, Picky SQ guys, and those who love the middle ground SQL, what catagories do many of these company's products fall under? Who has first had experiance with these products? What do you think? Who comes out on top in SPL? SQ? SQL?
(I realize that there are many individual posts about for instance RE SE's but i couldn't really find a post that a major web of comparisons like this. If there was a post very similar to this one i apologize)
 

Silver Member
Username: Alteraudiousa

Concord

Post Number: 309
Registered: Jan-06
which companies you looking for? I've had experience with almost all of them except Pegasus, Marcom, Incriminator and Audioque, maybe a few others and some series specific within a company but for the most part pretty diverse in smaller companies. I prefer Stereo Integrity for daily use and some comp use, best overall if you ask me. But there are some SPL specific subs i'd go for if i wanted to go that route. But SQ wise, i'll take my Mag anyday.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ergodyne

Post Number: 34
Registered: Feb-06
Well the main companys and models that caught my interest were, Image Dynamics (IdMax12), SoundSplinter(RL-S and RL-P 12"s), TreO (I know nothing about treo) 12", Resonant Engineering(SE,SX,XXX)12", And the Mag. I'm really just looking for a daily driver, don't know if i wanna run just 1 or if i will need 2 subs, i want something that hits really accurately and tight with the ability to hit quite low. The SoundSplinter RL-s Looked flat out amazing spec wise and they claim great SQ, so i was leaning twards them.
The last setup i had was 2 memphis PR 12's in a vented box with a memphis 500/1 powering them. That stuff was ok but I would love to be able to have a single 12 that would out perform those.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 5634
Registered: May-04
I wouldn't really call Image Dynamics an "underground" manufacturer, their products have brought home so many IASCA and USAC trophies over the years that it's hard not to have heard about them.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ergodyne

Post Number: 35
Registered: Feb-06
I really ment non-mainstream, i have never seen anyone around my area running ID, the only place i can buy them that is semi close is 3 hrs away. So out of all that is listed what would you recomend for my application Jonathan? (and yes Alteraudio, i still want your input)
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 5635
Registered: May-04
ID is more successful in SQ competition. Their primary specialty is in HLCDs (horns), their subs are also extremely successful. I love my ID Max.

Treo is known for SPL and that's pretty much it. Their " daily driver" subs aren't the best SQ wise IMO.

Soundsplinter I don't have any experience with.

TC builds some nice subs. Good SQL drivers overall, they OEM for a lot of companies, Eclipse is an example.

RE I'd consider most of their products as SQL, the MT is a good SPL woofer though.

SI Mags are also more SQL.

I prefer the ID Max as a SQ and a SQL driver, it's really nice in a ported tuned low. That's just personal preference, though, and it does have a few quirks at extremely high volumes (a little mechanical noise, mainly from the tall surround dimpling). Second choice would be a W7 or a Brahma if I wanted better performance at really high volume levels, especially from sealed boxes.

Not really a huge fan of REs stuff overall.

The SI Mags are nice, but again not my personal choice for SQL or SQ. Good jack of all trades, but master of none.

If I wanted straight SPL, I'd skip all of these and go for Digital Designs. Treo would be my second choice.

Really, my favorite SQ sub is the JL W6v2, though. But you don't want "mainstream" :p
 

Silver Member
Username: Alteraudiousa

Concord

Post Number: 311
Registered: Jan-06
the new Mag has the best SQ i've heard. Beats a W6 and W7 and the old Brahma's. The 2nd Gen Mag was good but more SQL while the new one has a better defined SQ without losing any output, if anything increasing it. Jon, i'm not sure if what generation Mag you've heard but the Mag is an awesome SQ sub. You may also want to look into Oz Audio Elite(i believe thats it) as its another really good SQ sub with lots of output. TC Sounds isn't really a company as its now more buildhouse for larger companies like Eclipse. I personally don't like Eclipse subs and not too impressed with RE. Good price for the RE's as well as Soundsplinters and Elemental Designs but I don't think they have a notch ahead of some of the others.

As for the Sound Splinter RL-s, specs its an amazing sub and after talking to Mike and a few others who did test it( i passed on it for reasons i'll state below), the RL-s could be an amzing sub, IF IF given the right power and space to breathe. Its a beast of a sub and be prepared to give lots of sapce. its more geared for HT use but can do very well in car audio.

I'd get one Mag 15 with 1200rms in a sealed 2.4-2.6cu.ft and call it a day.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 5636
Registered: May-04
All subjective. The best SQ subs are the ones people would scoff at, you know the ones, like the Dynaudio MW-190 with its wicked 4.5mm x-max. SEAS Lotus subs are very nice too.

1st gen Mag, but I wasn't highly impressed with the SQ. It would have to improve drastically to be the best I've ever heard, as would the W7, Brahma, and various others in the category.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ergodyne

Post Number: 36
Registered: Feb-06
I have read a fair ammount of you guys's posts and you both really seem to know what you are talking about, so it's great to get your opinions. I think i'll take ur advice and stay away from RE, Might get their 12.1 cuz it looked pretty good but i guess it depends on where i go sub wise.
Hey Alteraudio, the guys that tested the SoundSplinter RL-S, what kind of amp(S) were they using to push it?
How are you running your SI Mag's, Sealed? Ported? What Amp(s) pushing them.

Jonathan, what are you using to push your IDMAX? How many are you running?

Lastly have you guys seem this website:http://www.realmofexcursion.com? Pretty silly stuff.

 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 5641
Registered: May-04
"Jonathan, what are you using to push your IDMAX? How many are you running?"

JL 1000/1, but it doesn't need that much power. I'd do well enough off a 500/1. Around 700-800W is the most I'd put on an ID Max in a SQL application, it's a very efficient sub. Just running one, and it's in a sealed box. I'd love to go ported, but it was in a single cab truck so it wasn't an option.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3161
Registered: Feb-05
What size sealex box are you using on the ID MAX 12 jonathan ?
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3162
Registered: Feb-05
What size sealed box are you using on the ID MAX 12 jonathan ?
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 5642
Registered: May-04
Around 1.25 net, with a little polyfill for added damping.
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3165
Registered: Feb-05
Whould 1.5 cuft suit me better since im using the a600.2 amp at 600 watts rms and should i add a pound of polyfill ?. Thats what ID recommends on there forum. Eric Stevens Recommends
 

Silver Member
Username: Safe_cracker

Chicago, IL US

Post Number: 278
Registered: Jan-06
I had 2 IDmax 12s in a slot ported enclosure tuned to 32hz, I like them they had great SQ but I am an SPL guy and really dig severe migranes brought on my a good system. I sold them and now have a single REsx15", has good SQ and excellent SPL. It is in a custom ported enclosure @ 4cf. Oh and I was told not to put more than a 1000 watts RMS to an IDmax sub. Polo.. :-)
 

New member
Username: Laethageal

Post Number: 4
Registered: Feb-06
I might sound amateurish here, but from who's this Mag sub you're talking about, I'd like to compare it with the w7 and Brahma.

Thank you
 

Gold Member
Username: Tdeaton1021

Near Tampa, Florida USA

Post Number: 2081
Registered: Sep-04
www.stereointegrity.com
 

Silver Member
Username: Alteraudiousa

Concord

Post Number: 317
Registered: Jan-06
Rich as for the RL-s, i believe people were using it with about 1200rms. I can't find the review someone did but everyone knows it takes lots of power and space to run this thing at its potential. Here's a thread that even Mike states its more for HT use due to some of the constraints. I think the biggest is its a SVC 4ohm.
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4925

As for the Mag, the 2nd and 4rd gen are way better than the old claw. You should try one out for a bit, maybe Nick has one sitting around or a prototype. I know what you mean about a really good SQ, Phase Aliante flatcone, hardly any xmax but had a nice punch almost like a 8in. But really lacked output an maybe 4 of them would equal a good 15.

I use my Mag in a sealed 1.68cu ft box, no polyfill and 1200+rms. And thats for the 12, my new 15 i will be putting in later in March will be about 2.2cu ft sealed and run off 1200RMS. And the 3rd Gen is seriously a good SQ competitor as it has one of the best low ends in the daily sub. Only thing that would take something away from it is its lack of high end extension so if you dont have a good front stage that can go into the 80hz or better 70hz region well than the Mag will not bridge that small gap. But thats why i;m using a 3way setup with ES-600(63-300hz), HD-5(250-5khz) and tweets(3.15khz and up)
 

Gold Member
Username: Suleman36

Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 3166
Registered: Feb-05
I have a 2.2 cuft sealed box for anyone interested. It was used for my Avalanche 15 but i sold the sub. The box is in great shape and im asking for $140 shipped to you.
 

Gold Member
Username: B101

Queen City, NC USA

Post Number: 1379
Registered: Sep-05
I absolutely have a love affair with my TREOs! I guess Im more leaned to SPL, cause I like it extremly loud; but my Treo gives me loudness and sound quality thats just out of this world! It floats my boat 4 sure! For the volume levels I play this thing, it keeps sounding better!!!

=D
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ergodyne

Post Number: 37
Registered: Feb-06
HEy POlo, are you saying that your 1 sx is louder than your 2 12" IDMAX's?

Alteraudiousa, what generation of Mag is currently available?
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