Alternate To New Alternator

 

New member
Username: Brianm8000

Sutton, MA USA

Post Number: 4
Registered: Nov-05
Well, i have a 1998 honda crv, and i was wondering if there was any alternates to putting a new altornator in my car. Because i know my old alternator will no be able to withstand my new setup i am going to be putting in (2 12" L7's powered by the kicker SX1250.1 amp plus another amp for my speakers)

So is there any alternate to getting a new altornator? I dont want to get a new high output one because they get very pricey and i dont have that kind of money.

thanks,
brian
 

Bronze Member
Username: Hnic_men

Post Number: 71
Registered: Oct-05
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Silver Member
Username: Goatin

U.S.A

Post Number: 121
Registered: Jan-06
nope even if you get a ton of batteries how are you going to charge them and run a kicker 1250.1 another amp and your cars needs like distributor cap if it gets no power the car will die from no spark. check outh this site you will only need about 130 or so amps for your amplifiers and ~40-50 for your car.a 160 amp alternator should work.
http://www.motorcityreman.com/high-amp-alternators-special-order-units-gm.htmlUpload
 

Silver Member
Username: Theelfkeeper

Stockbridge, GA USA

Post Number: 950
Registered: Feb-05
no, theres really no alternate for a HO alternator. its what keeps everytihng going.

you could use a large bank of batteries, and only listen for like 5 minutes, then have to recharge over night, then get 5 more minutes, lol. but that sucks.

and car audio isn't cheap, if you are gonna spend the money on equiptment, you will have to spend the same on the car to keep it all going. doesn't make since to spend the money on the equiptment, only to ruin it all, and the car, by not doing it right.

you should save your money, don't ruin the audio equiptment, and get a HO alternator.

and what do the spark plug pictures have to do with anything??
 

Silver Member
Username: Fandim

Reno, Nevada United State...

Post Number: 677
Registered: Jun-05
HO alternators arent even as pricey as most think...can be had for in the neighborhood of $300 for a good one in most vehicles.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Safe_cracker

Chicago, IL US

Post Number: 42
Registered: Jan-06
Hey Jimmy, from those pics your car is running wayyyy tooo lean! You see that white on the plug electrode, yup!! Polo..
 

Silver Member
Username: N2audio

Lawrence, Ks USA

Post Number: 490
Registered: Mar-04
Hang on a second Brain --

I would expect some people to jump on me for this, but here's how it works...
I believe the Kicker is around 75% efficient so --
1250/.75 = 1666w
that's what it will need to produce rated power.
1666/14= 119A
that's the appx current it will draw when playing full power test tones.
Music, even techno/bass music requires no more than 1/3 test tone power - most music is between 1/10 and 1/4. So --
119/3 = 40A
That's your appx RMS current draw for high demand music at full volume. At high, but less than full volume your amp may not require more than 30A or so, and if you listen to something other than bass music, and/or you don't blast it all the time it's entirely possible your stock alt may get the job done.

I don't at all think you're in the "must have an HO alt" category. I would recommend getting the amp installed properly and see how it runs. Your stock charging system may be sufficient.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 5290
Registered: Nov-04
Optidriven, have you tested your theory?
I've done numerous tests with 200A ps and 900w rms amp. I will tell you one thing, it draws more than 40A, guaranteed.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 5292
Registered: Nov-04
The point I'm trying to make is, theories are fine, as long as it's backed up with proof.
Most cars with STOCK alternator will not be able to power 350W rms amp without dimming lights.
 

Silver Member
Username: N2audio

Lawrence, Ks USA

Post Number: 496
Registered: Mar-04
I haven't tested it personally no, but this isn't a theory, or breaking news - it's the way music works.

The alt's job is to provide enough current for the car's electrical system to function with enough left over to maintain a charge at the battery.
Dimming lights doesn't necessarily mean the alt isn't keeping the battery charged.

Of course a 900w amp is going to draw more than 40A, but only for that fraction of a second when the sub(s) hit(s). The rest of the time it's essentially idle. Which is why the RMS current draw of an amp isn't even cose to the rated, or fused max.

Google "crest factor music", or read about it at carsound.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 5294
Registered: Nov-04
Everything works according to plan in theory.
I've attached 200A ps with voltage and current monitor and played regular music with bass.
The current draw was around 45A - 65A consistently. It did not drop below 40A till the song ended. So which part of "fraction of a second" are you referring to?
Not picking on you, but I just don't want newbies to blow their alternators/batteries cause they misunderstood your post.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 5295
Registered: Nov-04
An average song can contain 128BPM to 145BPM. This means for very second, a drum beats 2.13 - 2.42 times, or 1 beat for 1/2 a second. Now as you know, lot of the bass song people listen to, in their cars have more than ONE drum beating. Therefore, almost every full second, the amp will be forced to draw power from the alternator/battery. With stock alternator, it will be taxed very heavily.
My car came with 75A alternator, and with 350W rms amp, the lights were dimming with every beat.
This is why I stress, theory will not always agree with reality.


 

Silver Member
Username: N2audio

Lawrence, Ks USA

Post Number: 497
Registered: Mar-04
Do you happen to know the frequency of your current monitor (how many measurements it took per second)? Was it digital or analog?

Honestly, if you had THAT much trouble with 350w on a 75A alt I would have to guess there was a problem with the installation at some point, or you had unusually high demand stock electronics in that car.

As you may have read in other threads - I used to run a system near 1000w rms with my old 75A alt. This was in a turbo car with a lot of power options, dual electric radiator fans, fog lights etc.
Dimming was noticeable while driving, but not severe. For a year and a half it worked w/no real problems. The car started fine every cold morning.

As much as possible I try to trust science, and let it tell me what problems I may have, as opposed to use my problems to brush off scientific principles.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 5296
Registered: Nov-04
The monitor was digital for both.
I've done numerous installs, and with stock alternator, I found 350w rms - 400w rms to be the breaking point.
I've checked with other installers and it's the same story.
Just curious, when you were playing your 1000w stereo, what was your voltage reading at max volume? I doubt it was 13.8v nor 14.2v.
Maybe you had one of those miracle amps. Personally, I've nevef seen one (PPI/Orion/Zapco/MTX/Audiobahn/Jensen/Pioneer/Xtant).
 

Silver Member
Username: N2audio

Lawrence, Ks USA

Post Number: 499
Registered: Mar-04
I think our biggest disagreement is our definition of "breaking point". Mine is when the alt can no longer keep the battery charged. Yours it seems is when measured voltage is less than ideal. If that's your basis for alternator upgrade I can see how you'd feel that a 400w amp could be a problem.

My car idled at around 13v with the stereo playing loud. It would drop to battery voltage with any other accessories on, revving it to 1.5-2k would get it up to 14.
It was 700+w class D, ~200 a/b.
There are people all over the place running 1kw + with a stock charging system and little to no problems. One of the mods at SD runs 1700+ (or was it 1900?) with a stock 95A alt.

It's all good Isaac - We may disagree, but I don't think any less of you for it :-)

 

New member
Username: Brianm8000

Sutton, MA USA

Post Number: 5
Registered: Nov-05
so Optidriven you arnt seeing a problem with my alternator powering all of my equipment? I mean i am fine with it dimming, but i just dont want to BLOW the electrical system.
 

Silver Member
Username: N2audio

Lawrence, Ks USA

Post Number: 503
Registered: Mar-04
Your listening habits have a huge effect Brian. If you're one of those people that have it full blast clipping the amps almost every second you drive you may in fact need to replace/upgrade the alternator.

If you listen at something less than full volume and turn it down once in a while I would be surprised if your stock alt can't get the job done.

If the dimming bothers you - a bigger alternator is the only fix, but if your engine turns over strong when you turn the key every morning your alt is doing its job.
 

New member
Username: Brianm8000

Sutton, MA USA

Post Number: 8
Registered: Nov-05
i listen to music by myself about 3/4ths of the way up when i am with friends. when i am by myself i rarely crank it above 1/2.

 

Silver Member
Username: N2audio

Lawrence, Ks USA

Post Number: 507
Registered: Mar-04
I don't think you're in a spot where you need to buy and install the alt before you ever get the amp in. I'd go ahead and get it set up and see how it runs. If you find it to be insufficient just be careful with the volume until you can make the necessary upgrades.
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