2,3 and 4 way speakers question
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Bronze Member Username: KaziDover, Deleware Post Number: 24 Registered: Aug-05 | hats the best and what do all of them do? |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 9823 Registered: Dec-03 | If you're talking about coaxial, triaxial, and quadaxial speakers as opposed to component sets, it's like this: 2-way has the mid and one centrally mounted tweeter on the center pole 3-way has the midrange with a tweeter and adjascent super-tweeter mounted next to it on the center pole. a 3 way is generally brighter, and better for front speakers although I still believe in simple is better and usually stick to better 2-way speakers given the choice 4-way is a product of the 1980s concept of "more is better" and nobody but possibly Pioneer, and mostly low end crap companies like pyramid and legacy offer 4-way speakers anymore.. all these do is pack more tiny useless tweeters onto the cluster at the top of the center pole to look flashy and impressive. Generally nothing is gained here. a 2-way component set has a separate midrange and tweeter along with an external crossover module for better speaker positioning and power handling. a 3-way component set has a mid-bass driver, midrange driver, and tweeter, along with external XO module. These systems are very expensive, require custom installation and speaker positioning, and take a lot of room, but tend to give a very good full range response, with smooth blending between all speakers right down to the roll-off from the mid-bass driver to the subwoofers you choose to match the components. For most cars, a coaxial set or 2-way component set is your best choice for speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: KaziDover, Deleware Post Number: 30 Registered: Aug-05 | oh thats sucks for me... i bought 4 way speakers a while ago and havent installed them yet.... I have pioneer 4 ways. are these going to sound like crap or actually be decent? |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 9861 Registered: Dec-03 | they'll sound ok. they'll be very bright, and the lower midrange will be a little weak.. but they'll be ok. if ya don't like em, you can always replace them with better 2 way coaxials from a company like Focal, CDT, or even some Alpines. |
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Bronze Member Username: KaziDover, Deleware Post Number: 32 Registered: Aug-05 | well what kind of 6x9's would you recommend? price realy doesnt matter as long as its under 500 but im not sure what kind of speakers would be more than that |
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Silver Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 861 Registered: Aug-05 | go with 6.5's better SQ than 6x9's DLS Iridium retail for a little over $1000  try to go with some Focal, Rainbow, DLS, Morel, or MB Quart(i think). i can't think of anymore right now.  |
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Bronze Member Username: KaziDover, Deleware Post Number: 33 Registered: Aug-05 | Thanks muddy, i dont wanna go all out on componets just some 6.5 or 6x9's speakers ... i already dropped around 1300 on HU - Panasonic CQ-C9700U (300) Speakers - Pioneer "A series" 4 ways (100 each) Amp - MB Quart RAA1000 (300) Sub - 1 12'' RE SX (270) Box - www.thecaraudiobox.com (250) But might return the speakers to crutchfield and get something better |
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Silver Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 862 Registered: Aug-05 | i know DLS entry level(which i have in my rear deck) start around $100. and my middle-grade DLS Reference's(front speakers) were $160. so you don't have to spend an arm an a leg to get good sound. i was just giving you an example of some pricey speakers, although i know there are even more expensive out there. |
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Silver Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 863 Registered: Aug-05 | oh, and these are the $1000 speakers. i screwed up the pic up there. those up there retail for around $800 i think.  not that it really matters. lol |
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Bronze Member Username: KaziDover, Deleware Post Number: 34 Registered: Aug-05 | lol wow, thats way way way too expensive for me right now... if i didnt buy my car out here i would probably be spending alot more on my system but paying cash for my car killed me... So these DLS are really good aye? where can i find them online... i will prolly get them |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 9885 Registered: Dec-03 | hey are you going to be driving these with a small amp or just off that panny head unit? (amp amp amp please say amp) |
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Bronze Member Username: KaziDover, Deleware Post Number: 35 Registered: Aug-05 | hahaha so far right now I am going to be driving my 4 ways with my head unit then when i get some money to get better speakers and an amp i will drive them with an amp... i dont really need rear speakers do i ? so i could get a low 2 channel amp and run my fronts? also i have a mustang so their really isnt any need for speakers in the back because of how small my car is? Am i correct in saying that? |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 9913 Registered: Dec-03 | yup that works. The CDT speakers like the CL-61 components are very good. Affordable as well. Better amplified but ok on a head unit. you can use 6.5" separates easily on a 6x9 opening by using a plywood plate to mount them in the opening.. very common to do. |
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Bronze Member Username: KaziDover, Deleware Post Number: 36 Registered: Aug-05 | aiight thanks glass... do I have to cut anything if i use componets? and where can i find CDT? |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 9938 Registered: Dec-03 | www.thezeb.com best prices all you need to do is cut a plywood baffle to fill the 6x9 opening, and surface mount the components in that board. |
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Silver Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 882 Registered: Aug-05 | WHOA! the Morel(Israel) Elate 6" 3-way Comp set retails for $1,449.00. oooooh, i want these.  |
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Silver Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 906 Registered: Aug-05 | ok, i am all done after this, but until then i have three words: Focal Utopia Beryllium. i was told around$8,000 Beryllium is worth more than gold.  |
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Silver Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 911 Registered: Aug-05 | $8000 might be a little over-the-top, infact i find it hard to believe, but here is the website. pretty interesting reading http://www.utopia-be.com/Technology/Beryllium.htm |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4653 Registered: May-04 | Rainbow Audio Reference series 3 ways. $10,000. Look up the specs, too much to list.  |
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Silver Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 912 Registered: Aug-05 | those are BAD*SS. if i ever won the FL Lottery....LOL |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4654 Registered: May-04 | Beryllium has been used in compression drivers for years upon years. Focal failed to mention that . Damping sucks, but it's stiffness raises resonances to a high enough frequency that harmonics aren't a big issue. |
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Silver Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 913 Registered: Aug-05 | how far up into the khz before you can't hear it anymore? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4655 Registered: May-04 | "those are BAD*SS.:-) if i ever won the FL Lottery....LOL" Yeah. Thank god I haven't heard them yet, if I did my wife's car would probably pop up with a For Sale sign or two in the windows . I have heard the SEAS Excel drivers, which these are based upon, and they are the most transparent, clear, and accurate midbass and midrange drivers I've heard, second only to electrostatics in my book. |
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Silver Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 914 Registered: Aug-05 | LMAO, too bad i don't have a wife's car to sell. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 4219 Registered: Nov-04 | Below 20Hz or above 20Khz. Dogs can hear them. |
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Silver Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 915 Registered: Aug-05 | then i suppose it is kinda pointless to have a tweeter(the Beryllium) that plays up to 40khz. or is that a "because we can" type thing that looks good on paper? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4656 Registered: May-04 | "how far up into the khz before you can't hear it anymore?" 20khz is considered the threshold, but with 2nd order harmonics a driver would have to have a resonance higher than 40khz to really be of use. Basically, a 20khz tone could excite a dome that resonates at say 40khz, due to harmonics. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 4220 Registered: Nov-04 | If you're going to buy a tweeter that plays up to 40Khz, them make sure you get that in writing cause you certainly won't hear it. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4657 Registered: May-04 | And theory is that since the cone would resonate, it would modulate the rest of the frequency range due to the resonance. It's basically research from people trying to explain why metal domes sound metallic. |
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Silver Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 917 Registered: Aug-05 | so are you saying that a tweeter that can play up to 40khz will sound better reproducing a 20khz tone(which is kind of redundant b/c you can barely hear it) than a tweeter that stops at 20khz? (sorry, it's late) |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4658 Registered: May-04 | Not really. I'd rather have a tweeter that falls off drastically in response right after 20khz, avoiding potential resonance issues or at least having the response low enough that the resonance doesn't raise a nasty head, than have a flat response tweeter that risks a higher resonance peak. This is theory behind Dynaudio's designs, they calculate steep rolloffs with the drivers so that you can get away with shallow slope crossover. Mainly it's an issue of cone material, Beryllium can sometimes be pushed to resonate above 50khz, but I'd rather get the smoothness and tonality of a well built soft dome tweeter. The Dynaudio Esotar is a good example, extremely flat frequency response, less than 10 degrees of phase shift over the entire frequency range of the driver, and sweet, neutral tonality that is very clean and natural. I'm not really a Focal fan, as you can tell . I've used them before, but the tweeter is controversial, really hard to get right in a car, and the midbass, while a good all around driver, just doesn't excel anywhere. |
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Silver Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 920 Registered: Aug-05 | i'm not a Focal fan either, just got bored and started looking for some expensive comp sets, and thought i had found "the best", but as my youth directly correlates to my inexperience. i was WRONG! lol i would rather go with some Iridium 6.2's or 6.3's b/c i have heard them and they sound really good. besides that i can get the hook-up price at the audioshop i am constantly at(not really buying anthing but helping out and hangin out lol) for dealer price. |
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Bronze Member Username: KaziDover, Deleware Post Number: 37 Registered: Aug-05 | Muddy I think you should hook me up with the dealer price man...id even throw a little in for your troubles |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4661 Registered: May-04 | "i'm not a Focal fan either, just got bored and started looking for some expensive comp sets, and thought i had found "the best", but as my youth directly correlates to my inexperience. i was WRONG! lol " All up to your ears, they could very well be the best to you. Their tweeters are the sellers of the sets, I just find their midbass drivers to be a little too mediocre all around for the price. Focal makes some of the most detailed tweeters out there, they're just really, really quirky for a car environment due to the characteristics of the inverted dome. Pair that Beryllium tweeter with some SEAS Lotus drivers and it would be very hard to top them for clarity, though. For midbasses and midranges, metal is capable of extremely smooth and neutral reproduction, as a metal cone is capable of producing it's range without the edge resonances of a paper or poly coned driver. They are also very rigid and lightweight. With a good metal cone, you can cross midbass and midrange drivers low enough so that 2nd order harmonics aren't an issue, which is why I feel metal is best when limited to midrange and lower drivers. The Focal tweets above hear nearly solved the issue, and Beryllium is a very good solution to the typical metal dome, but it's the overall design that makes it quirky. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4662 Registered: May-04 | "i'm not a Focal fan either, just got bored and started looking for some expensive comp sets, and thought i had found "the best", but as my youth directly correlates to my inexperience. i was WRONG! lol " All up to your ears, they could very well be the best to you. Their tweeters are the sellers of the sets, I just find their midbass drivers to be a little too mediocre all around for the price. Focal makes some of the most detailed tweeters out there, they're just really, really quirky for a car environment due to the characteristics of the inverted dome. Pair that Beryllium tweeter with some SEAS Lotus drivers and it would be very hard to top them for clarity, though. For midbasses and midranges, metal is capable of extremely smooth and neutral reproduction, as a metal cone is capable of producing it's range without the edge resonances of a paper or poly coned driver. They are also very rigid and lightweight. With a good metal cone, you can cross midbass and midrange drivers low enough so that 2nd order harmonics aren't an issue, which is why I feel metal is best when limited to midrange and lower drivers. The Focal tweets above hear nearly solved the issue, and Beryllium is a very good solution to the typical metal dome, but it's the overall design that makes it quirky. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4663 Registered: May-04 | "i'm not a Focal fan either, just got bored and started looking for some expensive comp sets, and thought i had found "the best", but as my youth directly correlates to my inexperience. i was WRONG! lol " All up to your ears, they could very well be the best to you. Their tweeters are the sellers of the sets, I just find their midbass drivers to be a little too mediocre all around for the price. Focal makes some of the most detailed tweeters out there, they're just really, really quirky for a car environment due to the characteristics of the inverted dome. Pair that Beryllium tweeter with some SEAS Lotus drivers and it would be very hard to top them for clarity, though. For midbasses and midranges, metal is capable of extremely smooth and neutral reproduction, as a metal cone is capable of producing it's range without the edge resonances of a paper or poly coned driver. They are also very rigid and lightweight. With a good metal cone, you can cross midbass and midrange drivers low enough so that 2nd order harmonics aren't an issue, which is why I feel metal is best when limited to midrange and lower drivers. The Focal tweets above hear nearly solved the issue, and Beryllium is a very good solution to the typical metal dome, but it's the overall design that makes it quirky. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4664 Registered: May-04 | Eh, forum gave me a bunch of hassle. Sorry bout the triple post. |
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Silver Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 935 Registered: Aug-05 | i understand, i should have said that i thought i had found the most expensive(you get what you pay for when it comes to audio equipment, so i put 2 and 2 together). i'm not sure how i would go about doing that, would i buy them at dealer cost and them ship them to you or something? i don't even have enough to buy them at dealer cost right now anyway. lol |
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