OK poll here guys
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 3623 Registered: Dec-04 | specs on AA avalanche are as follows. Fs 15.7 Hz Qms 3.5 Qes .334 Qts .305 Vas 300.6 L Re 3.2 ohms Znom* 4 ohms Xmax 27 mm Sd 749 cm2 Mms 269 g Vd 4.04 L Pnom 800 watts Le 2.4 mH Cutout 14.125" Diameter 15.5" Depth 7.875" Weight 37 pounds dual 2ohm input sens 89.9db Now specs on the JL 12w6v2 FS 25hz QES .480 QMS 7.100 QTS .450 VAS 2.82ft x-max 16mm effiency 85.9 db SD(effective piston area) 77.8in dual 4ohm 400 watt rms now if you are not familiar with both of these drivers do not post because we do not want to hear some newbie's usless input unless it is backed up by knowledge. here is a link to both web sites http://www.ascendantaudio.com/archive/Avalanche%2015.htm http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/pdfs/W6v2_MAN.pdf OK now read up on both and check over specs if you want but I want some opinions here. The avalanche will go into a 2.5 cu/ft sealed with 800 watts and the JL's will go in 3.0cu/ft sealed with 800 watts tuned to 32 htz. ok I have tested both of these subs personally so I am gonna go with the first vote for Avalanche. |
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willy wanker Unregistered guest | well i'd go with da ava, but i got to ask, why are you comparing a 15 to a 12? |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 3626 Registered: Dec-04 | 2-12's not 1-12. 1-15 vs 2-12's |
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Silver Member Username: FfxdevilarmsDubuque, Iowa United States Post Number: 602 Registered: Jul-04 | It is 2 of the JL's. He is having a debate with the owner of the subs on another thread. |
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Silver Member Username: FfxdevilarmsDubuque, Iowa United States Post Number: 603 Registered: Jul-04 | you got to it first james. I am with you on this one by the way. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 3627 Registered: Dec-04 | yeah I didnt realize I forgot to post that. |
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Silver Member Username: FfxdevilarmsDubuque, Iowa United States Post Number: 608 Registered: Jul-04 | Not to many opinions yet. I would personally get the AVA myself though, JL is overpriced and i would have to say that the JL's would have better SQ. From what i have come to understand thouh, the Ava can it REALLY LOW. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 3633 Registered: Dec-04 | yeah the Frequency response is 15hz. I love the w6v2's SQ but if you are talking about which will be louder I have to go with the ava's as well. Also the ava's SQ isnt much behind the w6v2 in a sealed enclosure but in ported tuned to 32 htz I am gonna have to say it is equivelent. |
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Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 3229 Registered: Aug-04 | Yeah, I got it. Total surface area of two 12w6v2's: 1,003 cm2 Total surface area of one Avalanche 15": 749 cm2 W6v2 Xmax: 16mm or 1.6 cm Avalanche Xmax: 27mm or 2.7 cm Displacement at full Xmax for two W6's: 1,198 cm3 Displacement at full Xmax for one Avy: 2,022 cm3 |
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Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 3230 Registered: Aug-04 | Two JL W6V2's at full linear excursion will displace 1.2 liters of air. One Avalanche 15" at full linear excursion will displace 2.02 liters of air. "There's no replacement for displacemnt." |
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Silver Member Username: Iowahawks19Post Number: 313 Registered: Jun-05 | haha nice quote, anyway, i would go ava too, i like ascent audio, (i don't have one) but i hear great things of how low it hits, and to top it off it's always better to be different and not get MTX/kicker/RF/JL equipment, although all has good stuff, i would rather go with somthing most people don't even know about and watch them be amazed |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4294 Registered: May-04 | I'd take the JLs, reasoning being their SQ. Try not to assume full linear excursion. It will give you inaccurate results. Surface area>excursion for SPL. Remember the DD9500 series only has around a 15mm x-max. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 3645 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey Jonathan its a SPL loudness issue not a SQ issue. I agree with the SQ of the w6's I am a big fan but when it comes to SPL I have tested these subs both and the result is the avalanche is the louder sub and the SQ isnt far off especially if you tune it to 32 hz. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4295 Registered: May-04 | I'm not knocking the Ava, didn't know the intent was solely SPL though. The W6v2s aren't SPL monsters, I was just saying you can't generalize with X-max specs. |
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Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 3232 Registered: Aug-04 | I know you shouldn't use full xmax, and it's not reached very often either. It's just a generalization, and I was only showing the potential full output. I think I learned from you actually Jonathan a long time ago that surface area is greater than xmax when it comes to displacement and spl. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 3650 Registered: Dec-04 | I know your not knocking either one thats why I posted all specs and asked for respectable opinions as yourself. This guy is going with 2-12w6v2's over 1-15in avalanche because a few people told him it would be louder and I am just trying to show him that it wont be. I have tested both these set-ups in the same car off the same amp one ported 1 sealed thats the only reason I am getting so into this. the ava sounds more like 4-jl 12w6v2. and down deep there is absolutely no comparison whatsoever. |
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Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 3234 Registered: Aug-04 | Just because it's JL and there's two of them people automatically think it's louder. So sad.... |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 3652 Registered: Dec-04 | exactly! |
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Silver Member Username: Audiobass10Cape Coral, FL United States Post Number: 185 Registered: Jul-05 | If we're talking SPL, the main issue is not x-max nor is it displacement, but rather box design. With that being said, the comparison here is 1 15" sub SEALED vs two 12" subs PORTED. A sealed 15" subwoofer only has so much in it despite the model. Doesn't matter if we're talking the Avalanche or RE MT. My bet is entirely on the JL's unless someone really makes a poorly designed enclosure. In all reality, there are MANY sub par 12's that would have greater output than the Avalanche in the right enclosure. I'm not up JL's butt, or downing ascendant. Both are great drivers from what i've heard, however in SPL a large margin of success comes in your box, not nessecarily the drivers you are using. |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Chicago/atlanta Post Number: 494 Registered: May-05 | overall, for all practical intent-price/availability being equal-i would still grab the jl's over the 15." regardless of how loud the avi gets, by the time you get that loud, you'll be approaching/at hearing loss anyway. not a jl fan (just a w6fan), but i think the 12's would sound better and more involved (now that you have settled the spl debate). my sleepy 2cents. however worthless. |
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Gold Member Username: Suleman36Maryland U.S.A. Post Number: 1657 Registered: Feb-05 | James i think you are to much into your Avalanche 15 to really understand what your saying. First of all let me clear things. We are talking about 2 12w6v2's ported at 3.0 cubic feet tuned to 32hz to jl specs built by a proffesional box builder in phil from www.woodlawncabinetry.com compared to 1 15 Avalanche sealed at 2.5 cubic feet. Now that we have that clear which one will be louder and which one whould you guys choose if you owned both setups. James you can argue the points but the facts are still there. Dave and Mike and Johnathan and Glasswolf will tell you the same if you wanna find out. |
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Silver Member Username: RedrangeMo Hill, California USA Post Number: 212 Registered: Apr-05 | MO just try both setups out and let us know for yourself..its all personal opinion in a situation like this |
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bigyellowtaxi Unregistered guest | lol Mo it looks like james is trying to force in to keeping the avalanche pick which ever one you want is not his system is YOURS. I personally will go with the w6 better sq im not really a spl fan. |
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Silver Member Username: Subzer0Richmond, KY USA Post Number: 304 Registered: May-05 | I'd go with the ava myself. I did get to hear one last week and I was very impressed. Jl just bugs me anymore, any kid you ask around here has jl and hasn't even heard of an ava/atlas/shiva/brahma/re lol you name it.. mainstream stuff can stay that way :P the ava will handle what needs to be handled. |
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Gold Member Username: FishyTamarac Ft.Laud, FL USA Post Number: 1447 Registered: Sep-04 | If the JL's are ported and the Ava sealed I'm gonna haveta go with the w6's. Ported yields 3+ dB in output over sealed. Unless the Ava has at least twice the displacement I don't see how it could keep up, at least above 30 Hz. Then again if James has tested the two........ -Fishy |
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Silver Member Username: AraknidBOCA , FL U.S. Post Number: 892 Registered: Nov-04 | "Ported yields 3+ dB in output over sealed" Yeah, but don't those rules only apply when using the same sub? And not only that where comparing 1 sub VS 2 of not only different size but also brand. Now "JL's will go in 3.0cu/ft sealed with 800 watts tuned to 32 htz." So the JL's Will only recieve 400 watts each, is that what your saying? I think they will come close but im gonna have to go with the ava on this one. And also I didn't really read through everyone elses posts so some of this may have been said and answered already. |
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Silver Member Username: AraknidBOCA , FL U.S. Post Number: 893 Registered: Nov-04 | Ok, I read through it and I agree with SOME not all of Daves statements but the ones pertaining to how important box design is. I came up with "It's not how much displacement you have, But how you use it." And what this means is that your box design and quality plays the biggest role in the SPL scene. |
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Silver Member Username: AraknidBOCA , FL U.S. Post Number: 896 Registered: Nov-04 | One thing I don't agree with is The statement that the Jl's will get louder then a RE MT sealed. Come on now, A RE MT hooked up to 4,000 watts of pure power, Highly doubt it. They may come close given they are in some kind of awesome ABC box or snail shell but if were talking about any old ported box then no. But thats off this threads topic and i Don't wanna argue about it. It was just a thought. |
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Bronze Member Username: Big_louPost Number: 36 Registered: Jul-05 | I know you didnt ask for my n00b opinion but ill throw it out there anyways. From what I understand w6's gain quite a bit from going ported, capable of 141, 142 correct? Not sure of their sealed numbers. So 142 ported plus one more 12 is like 145 db. I also hear that the ava is very capable of 146 sealed according to james. Now if all of what I have said is true then I would say its a pretty close race. I think that vehicle will play a major part in both of the installs to see which is the top dog. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 3653 Registered: Dec-04 | OK the displacement of the ava is almost twice that of the JL's. I have tested this not only with the same amp,same vehicle,same everything and yes MO your boy Phil at woodlawn the (from the sounds of it you are having G@Y relations with by the way you talk about him) isnt the only one who can build a good box. both installs were done prof and the ava came out on top. now MO you can think I am way into the avalanche but there is a reason for it. I have tested and own multiple sup set-ups I currently own the old 3-10w6 stealth box,1-12w6v2(sold the other one)a adire brahma 15, soundstream refference ss12r's,atlas 15, and a avalanche 12 and of coarse the ava 15. Now since I am currently running the ava dont you think there is a reason for it? I have done thorough testing on all of these subs and quite simply the ava came out on top in reguards to SQL! |
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Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 3237 Registered: Aug-04 | I guess I didn't realize that the W6's were gonna be ported and the Avalanche was sealed. I was just talking in general terms which could be louder. If you don't think the Avy is louder than the W6's in a 2.5 cf sealed box, then throw the Avalanche in a 2 cf sealed box. (Yes I've done it don't even try to argue.) That being said, when it comes to spl, getting loud comes from moving lots of air and having lots of power. Bosth setups are using the same amount of power, and would be in the same vehicle, so you can't take those factors into account. I'd also have to ask at which frequency these are being compared to? Hey the W6's may be louder at like 45 hz, but the Avalanche is gonna destroy it at 25. |
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Silver Member Username: AraknidBOCA , FL U.S. Post Number: 897 Registered: Nov-04 | Omg lol "(from the sounds of it you are having G@Y relations with by the way you talk about him) " I almost fell out of my chair when i read that. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 3658 Registered: Dec-04 | glass posted something a few days ago about how you cant just compare surface area of different size subs and how efficiency plays a big role in which sub will be louder I wish I could find it! |
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Silver Member Username: AraknidBOCA , FL U.S. Post Number: 898 Registered: Nov-04 | try this https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/search.pl |
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Silver Member Username: AraknidBOCA , FL U.S. Post Number: 899 Registered: Nov-04 | When poeple say they can't find anything when they use search do they mean the retarded one at the top of the site or that one? Cuz I know you can find ANYTHING on that one. |
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Silver Member Username: Kd7nfrMontpelier, ID United States Post Number: 423 Registered: Apr-05 | Avalanche all the way! I've heard a few lately, and I'm highly impressed!!! JL is WAAAAAAAY overrated. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 3659 Registered: Dec-04 | I forgot to mention the Ava has a flat BL curve all the way to 20mm of excursion! |
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Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 3240 Registered: Aug-04 | "glass posted something a few days ago about how you cant just compare surface area of different size subs and how efficiency plays a big role in which sub will be louder I wish I could find it!" Yeah, I remember that. The Avalanche is very effecient though, which some people may not know. People run them with wayyyy less than 800 wrms. I've heard of guys using about 300 - 400 wrms and they still pound. |
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Gold Member Username: Suleman36Maryland U.S.A. Post Number: 1660 Registered: Feb-05 | James you are the only G@y one in here. WE are comparing subs not guys or anything you are fantasizing about. Keep the G@Y stuff out your mouth and dont get mad because a few people disagree with you. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 3660 Registered: Dec-04 | OK I'm g@y cause I like my sub to much(so you say) but you are the one in all actuality talking about a guy named Phil all over this forum like he truely is your boyfriend! so I am lost here MO, I dont care that people disagree with me its a forum it happens but I just wanted to post the facts that I have indeed tested both of these set-ups and unfortunetly MO the ava is louder then the 12w6v2's in this comparison! |
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Gold Member Username: Suleman36Maryland U.S.A. Post Number: 1661 Registered: Feb-05 | lol..im sure it is to you bud. I dont doubt your ears. However there are alot of other people out there that also have ears and im sure have heard both also. By the way, im not putting 800 watts to mine like you did supposdly. Im going with 1000 plus watts rms off a crossfire vr1000d. To be honest it wont matter how much louder the avalanche 15 can get or not because either way there is a point where i dont wanna loose my hearing. IM also not a JL fanatic but i own the W6v2's and i doubt the Avalanche will meet them in SQ but the SPL will be close with the way i have my setup and amp etc... I will be using this for everday driving in my car not for competition. I have both setups and can always switch around and find out. |
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Bronze Member Username: Big_louPost Number: 38 Registered: Jul-05 | Come on guys no need for bashing on the forum. You are all very intelligent car audio enthusiasts. You guys are on here to help people out not bicker about which setup you think is louder. I mean not to the point where you guys are in a shouting match. Mo I hope you do test out both combinations and I hope you get it metered but untill then Ill continue to read the madness. |
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Silver Member Username: Kd7nfrMontpelier, ID United States Post Number: 428 Registered: Apr-05 | Lol. I don't mean to upset ANYONE, and let me have it if you think I'm lieing. But I helped do an install with two W6v2's with a Rockford Fosgate T10001bd amp. We didn't like the sound, so we dropped in two Avalanche's my friend had laying around, and it sounded MUCH better, and hit 4dB higher. Just my experiences... And... We had two W7's with the RF T30001bd amp, and we yet again, didn't like the sound. So we swapped the subs out and put Eclipse Ti's in, and the sound was MUCH better. And it was an incredible 6db louder!!! And the Eclipse's are cheaper than the W7's. Hence why I LOVE Eclipse. My friend now dropped his JL line... Wonder why? |
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Gold Member Username: Suleman36Maryland U.S.A. Post Number: 1664 Registered: Feb-05 | 2 12w6v2's sealed or ported did you try and what was the box size and tune if it was ported ? By the way we are comparaing 2 12w6v2's ported at 1.5 cu ft. tuned 32hz to 1 Avalanche 15 sealed at 2.5 cu ft. |
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Silver Member Username: Kd7nfrMontpelier, ID United States Post Number: 432 Registered: Apr-05 | Yes, I was just saying what I had experience. And we tried different enclosures, and that same thing, just little different results. Definantly the Avalanche. |
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lames scumbo Unregistered guest | Quite possibly the stupidest thread i ever read.............. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4298 Registered: May-04 | You can argue sound quality until your faces change colors and get absolutely nowhere with it. Obviously the W6v2 doesn't sound bad, as it has taken part in many winning sound quality vehicles. The Avalanche also has excellent sound quality in it's range, and is accurate down low. It has the capability to win comps, too, I say that because it hasn't been on the market that long, so it needs a little time to prove itself as more and more competitors use it. Drivers don't determine the overall sound in themselves, the enclosure, the environment, and also the users ears determine what sounds good. SPL is a factor that can be measured, but there are many variable to take into account as well, such as enclosure, vehicle, power supplied, frequency of the test material played, and so forth. I'd say the W6v2s would ultimately get louder, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will be louder all over the spectrum with regular music material. FYI, if you want to compare SPL between these drivers, the JL spec'd boxes suck for it. They're giving you plans for an all around SQ enclosure, not an SPL inclined one. You can get a lot more SPL out of them by making a custom ported box. They're can get pretty loud if you design the enclosure to do it with. Last, the JL bashing is getting old. Adire, RE, Ascendant Audio haven't been around since the 1980s, JL has. Personally, I think that 10 years down the road people will be saying the same about Adire, RE, and Ascendant, because they're good enough that I think they'll be all over the place by then. You may want something different for now, but soak it up while it lasts because Adire and others are getting bigger by the day, and their subs are also recommended most on nearly every knowledgeable audio forum. Reminds me of how fans of lesser known or underground music get pissed when their favorite band hits it big, saying they "sold out" because they got popular and their band isn't such a secret anymore. How often do you see JL recommended around here, really? They're trashed by people that don't want to cough the money up. Sure, they're priced high, but some people are willing to pay that. Adire's prices rise as they get bigger, too. I think Toyota and Honda are overrated and overpriced, but I don't start flaming them when somebody recommends a Camry to a carbuyer. There is a place for everything. Just something to keep in mind. |
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Silver Member Username: Kd7nfrMontpelier, ID United States Post Number: 438 Registered: Apr-05 | Quite possibly the stupid person I've ever seen post... |
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Silver Member Username: Riebread77Post Number: 329 Registered: Jun-05 | I'd go with 2 jl w6v2's...one of the best SQ drivers on the market...if your making a ported box, you'll want all the SQ you can get. 2 12's sealed get pretty damn loud...so ported, it'll be enough... |
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Gold Member Username: Suleman36Maryland U.S.A. Post Number: 1670 Registered: Feb-05 | I wanna thank everyone thats posted and gave there comments on here whether or not you favored me or James in this debate. I also believed that the 2 12w6v2s ported whould be louder and maintain good sq but it was close. Thank you jonathan for making that last nice post. By the way jonathan, what do you think about the jl specs for a ported box for 2 12w6v2's that im gonna have built ? JL says 3.0 cu ft. tuned to 32hz There are 2 designs. One for a single port and 2 subs in the same chamber and one with seperate chambers for each sub and a port for each chamber. Im thinking of going with the first one which is 1 port for 2 subs in one chamber tuned to 32hz. let me know. |
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Gold Member Username: FishyTamarac Ft.Laud, FL USA Post Number: 1460 Registered: Sep-04 | Anyone notice how much Koda 10's are now? Adire is gettin out the K-Y and gettin ready to cash in my friends. I remember when JL first came out with the w5 series. They were some of the best subs you could buy at the time(1989), but what really set them apart was the price. I paid $105 each for one of the first pair of 10w5d8's. They didn't even have the JL silk screen on them yet. When JL discontinued them after introducing the first w6's, 10w5's were going for as much as $170 each. Why charge so much? Because they could. -Fishy |
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Silver Member Username: Kd7nfrMontpelier, ID United States Post Number: 440 Registered: Apr-05 | Not you Jonathan, lames scumbo. I agree, but I'll always be an Eclipse fan! |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4302 Registered: May-04 | I've used Tis in the past, one of my favorite subs, especially ported. Aluminum was a great SQ sub as well. JL hasn't always been my preference in all performance categories, but they are backed on good principles, outstanding commitment to quality, and great support and customer service. They are a company of integrity, and while they may think a little too much of some of their products (W7 mainly), they do build excellent equipment. Quality is the first thing I consider. Second comes sound quality, SPL third. MO, what are you looking for, improved sound, or more SPL? More depth? JL's box is pretty good all around, but IMO needs some help. Usually I go at least 2 cu ft ported or so with them, does better all around IMO. |
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Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 3243 Registered: Aug-04 | Just like Jon said, JL's prices are so high, because they can be. They are high quality, and they know people with cash are still gonna buy it. If you can't afford it, too bad, there's plenty of other people buying their stuff. As long as there are other subs that are built just as good, and perform similarly, then I'd much rather buy them then an overpriced JL sub. I personally never bash JL, I'd definitely run their stuff, but I'd never buy it if there were other subs just as good, and half the price. It's the same way with Digital Designs. They build high quality hand built subs, and they know people are still gonna buy it even if the prices are rediculous. Zac Davis posted here a couple days ago that he's actually talked to DD reps before, complaining about the high prices, and how hard it is for guys that carry their products to make any money from them. DD pretty much told him that he could either suck it up and carry their stuff, or to buy from some other company. They really don't care if people complain about the prices, there will always be people buying it. |
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Silver Member Username: Kd7nfrMontpelier, ID United States Post Number: 442 Registered: Apr-05 | LOL! Zapco has been pretty good with me, their being pretty good on the pricing, and Bob there is extremely helpful, and emails me back within hours. He wanted me to buy the amp, probably because he knew I'd get hooked and want more Zapco stuff. He told John up here to give me a hell of a deal, and that he did... And how does the JL handle more cu/ft? I know my Eclipses LOVE my 4cu/ft boxes tuned to 32Hz. |
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Gold Member Username: Suleman36Maryland U.S.A. Post Number: 1671 Registered: Feb-05 | So jonathan, you recommend 4.0 cubic feet tuned to 32hz instead of 3.0 cu ft. ? |
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Gold Member Username: Suleman36Maryland U.S.A. Post Number: 1672 Registered: Feb-05 | Im looking for more SPL out of them coming from the sealed prowedge they came in and maintain good SQ also. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4305 Registered: May-04 | Yeah, I'd give them around 2-2.25 cu ft each. Tune to 30hz. |
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Gold Member Username: Suleman36Maryland U.S.A. Post Number: 1673 Registered: Feb-05 | I will be powering them with a CrossFire VR1000D so you can take that into play if it matters with the 2.-2.25 cu ft each and the tune to 30hz now i guess. |
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Gold Member Username: Suleman36Maryland U.S.A. Post Number: 1674 Registered: Feb-05 | Its gonna go into a sedan style car just to let you know. I know that can change things as far as output is concerned. Will a smaller box be a better idea in that case or does it not matter as long as it fits in the trunk ? What type of car did you have yours setup in ? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4306 Registered: May-04 | Had mine in a 69 Cougar, I never used the trunk anyway. My recommendation still stands  |
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Gold Member Username: Suleman36Maryland U.S.A. Post Number: 1675 Registered: Feb-05 | jonathan, which Eclipse TI did you use ? I was looking for the SW9152 TI earliar and may still be interested in it. What is the best box for that subwoofer ? YOu said ported was good earliar but what size ? Did you have the 12 or the 15... |
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