Jonathon OR Isaac!!!

 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 3944
Registered: Dec-04
ok sorry for posting this in the sub and amp section lol, but i didnt know where you would check so i thought id put it in both lol, but first off, jonathon, how is your eclipse 8454 hu??? is that a good hU??? also how is the Kenwood KDC mp822 for a HU?? is it any good, but the main reason for this thread is im wondering, ive changed my mind and i want sq in my car, and i believe its one of you two that has like a bigjillion speakers in there car with like phase control to the sound waves and such, and im wondering if this is one of you and how this cna be accomplished or if you have any tips on sq, by the way im giong to use 2 15 tis for the sq if nooone buys them
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 3108
Registered: Nov-04
Hey Subfanatic, I am the one with lot of speakers in my car. It's by design though.
I wanted the most clearest sound quality possible. To achieve it, I used 2 sets of component speakers plus a pair of hard tweeters.
Each components serve different purpose.
One is in a sealed pvc pipe with sound deadening materials inside. It covers the mid bass, 80Hz and above. The 2nd pair covers 160Hz and above for mids. Each of them come with soft dome tweeters. Those together gives sharp and clear highs.
I also have hard tweeters for extra chrispness.
To lessen the imaging loss, the mid component is located near the kick panel, the midbass is close to the seat level, and the tweeters are installed towards the mid component. The hard tweeter is installed a bit higher than the other 2.
I have taken out the rears and used the holes as a port to get more bass into the cabin.
You will need phase shift on the amp to compensate timing difference between the fronts and the sub.
I also have PPI's imaging/phase shifting device to further enhance the stereo imaging. It makes it sound like the stereo is wider and further away from you.
Like always, best way of testing your system is to play a classical concert CD. If it plays the instruments properly without distorting them, then you know the setup is good.
Having a parametric equalizer will also help. Trying to do it by ear is very hard. That is why I purchased RTA.
Remember, you can spend $1200 on a good pair of components or you can do what I did, get couple of mid range priced components and combine them to achieve same quality. It can be done as long as you design it carefully.
It make take a lot of effort and time, but the end result is well worth it. Lot of people may have loud bass, but not too many will have crystal clear sounds.
So far the only guy that had sound quality like mine, had to spend tons of money and get it professionally installed.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 4011
Registered: May-04
I get to answer the short question, yay :-) Yes, the 8454 is an outstanding head unit, I'm very happy with it. As far as the Kenwood, I'm not a fan of them as they tend to be unreliable.
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 3957
Registered: Dec-04
wow isaac, that sounds relaly complicated, but also really worth it, hmm, i think im giong to start with just getting my fronts and subs working very nicely, then throw in an equalizer and then after that starting thworing in some more speakers
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 3114
Registered: Nov-04
Actually that is how I started. One piece at a time. If not you'll go crazy trying to get everything working at once.
Don't get 6 band or less equalizers. They don't have enough bands to cover the lows. Lot of them only have a boost for 60Hz. This is okay if your goal is getting lot of mid bass. For the ultra lows, you want 30Hz and 20Hz controls. As you know, some songs have very loud 60Hz drums but not much 30Hz. With a 10band or more, you can tailor the sound to suit your taste.
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 3963
Registered: Dec-04
im thinking a 30 band equalizer, ill show what im looking at
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 3964
Registered: Dec-04
http://www.woofersetc.com/product.asp?0=279&1=283&3=1913 and teh epic from audiocontrol for 219 bucks
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 3116
Registered: Nov-04
Hey Subfanatic, the only problem with those kind is that, you can't control/change the bands from your dashboard. I think Orion had 30 band equalizer.
Have you looked at some parametric equalizers? Some of them are DIN mountable.
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 3966
Registered: Dec-04
DIN?? parametric, you have to excuse me im 17 and failed english lol
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 3118
Registered: Nov-04
Parametric is similar to the regular equalizer except, it'll let you not only adjust the boost and cut, but also the centre frequency and the bandwidth of the filters. For example, if a song had too much of 80Hz, you can assign one of the band to that and reduce it, while at the same time assign another band for 35Hz and boost it.
Gives you more freedom. It can also give you too much choice. This is why RTA is required for parametric system with more than 6 bands.
The DIN mountable means, it'll fit nicely in one of your "bays" without taking up 2 slots.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 4014
Registered: May-04
Remember Sub, car audio is a deal where there is more than one way to skin a cat, and neither is really superior to another. It's about your goals and tastes. There are people that have less is more mentality, people that want more drivers to cover the spectrum, and of course those that fall somewhere in-between. In the end it depends on how far you want to go with both money and installation effort, and also the vehicle you're putting all this in. There are a couple of surefire ways to assure yourself great sound quality, and in the end it's all in the install.

1: If you plan to use factory spots, IMO the best method is to choose a 2-way component system that has a high order crossover and a crossover point around 2khz. In a door, most midbass drivers begin to roll off in the 2-3khz region, by choosing a component system that crosses over around 2k, it allows you to use the tweeter (which has much better off axis performance than a midbass/midrange) to provide great off axis performance above 2k.

2: If you want to go further with the install, choosing a 2 way component system that has a midbass that extends up to around 6khz, and a tweeter that goes from there gives great results. This usually requires either kick panel installations or fairly on axis installs, due to the previously mentioned problems with midbass drivers (particularly 6.5") in an off axis install. 6khz is the point where you begin moving away from crucial vocal content and begin moving into detail and presence range, it isn't really the meat of the music, but added detail and shimmer from things like cymbals and upper vocals. This allows you to install the tweeter up high, like in A-pillars or high doors, and you won't suffer from the drivers being spaced out since you're out of the crucial vocal range(having a driver up top and one down low trying to produce vocals at the same time, effectively screwing the tonality up). Many times you'll see time/phase alignment to balance out the drivers a little further. You'll see a lot of IASCA competitors using this setup, Scott Buwalda is a notable one.

3: A good 3 way component system, usually using an 8" midbass, a 3-4" midrange, and tweeter. Usually you'll see the midbass in a door, the midrange in a kick panel, and the tweeter either up high or beside the mid, either way. Same deal as above, just dependant on how the component system is designed.

4: Multiple drivers, such as what Isaac has already described above. Requires time or phase alignment, but gives good results.

As far as EQs, I can't remember the exact name, but the EQ Isaac was mentioning was the Orion Concept or something similar. Glasswolf is using one, you can go to his website and see: www.wickedcases.com

That Eclipse is a great EQ, it's just a set it and forget it thing, of course you could always add a smaller EQ for instant control over certain frequency ranges.
 

Gold Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 3133
Registered: Nov-04
I knew, sooner or later your time to post a long one would happen. :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 369
Registered: Feb-05
So wait a minute, if I get that Kenwood KDC-X789 HU, with the parametric equalizer, would I then not have to bother with any other equalizer? Also, as far as components go, I'm gonna stick some in an enclosure, but what are some good components? I was looking at some Kickers, Alipine Type R's, and Infinitys. Are they any good? As far as Infinitys go, I dont think I can afford the Kappa Perfect 6.1's. Jonathan thinks that Kenwood HU's suck. Should I get it? Jonathan, does your HU have a parametric EQ in it?
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 4018
Registered: May-04
The 8454 has a parametric EQ and a graphic EQ, in my case that depends on if you're using Pro mode or Easy mode. Pro mode allows you to run an active crossover to all drivers (2 way components and subwoofer) and control them with time alignment, driver level, and EQ. It has a total 10 band Parametric EQ, 5 bands for the mids and 5 for the tweeters. Easy mode is simpler, with less precise time alignment and crossover, and instead of the PEQ it has a 13 band graphic.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 4019
Registered: May-04
"I knew, sooner or later your time to post a long one would happen. :-)"

Yeah, I had to squeek it in, bout time.
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 4031
Registered: Dec-04
im glad you did jonathon, almost everytime you make a nie post like that i learn alot, thanks
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