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Blaupunkt is the best at cd head units. You will discover why.

 

Anonymous
 
I bought a Blaupunkt Los Angeles MP 72 and I'm very pleased with this stunning machine, because :
- it has a wonderful sound
- it has a nice built in 5 bands equalizer (better than most Pioneer models have - 3 bands equalizer). Even if you are unsatisfied with the sound you may also adjust the traditional bass and treble control (Pioneer can't say that).
- track access speed is simply the best I have ever seen in car audio whenever you are playing regular audio CD/CD-R/CD-RW or CD-R/CD-RW with encoded MP3 files. For the regular audio cd it takes only one second to skip from the track 21 to the track 1 (amazing!)
- it has cd text that is always scrolling during the same track if you like that, displaying track artist and track name.
- it has the best built in RDS-tuner (remember that RDS appeared for the first time in car audio by Blaupunkt) with digiceiver, for a better tuner sound
- it has the famous keycard, because car alarms are not suficient to protect our head units to be stoolen.
- it has a motorized faceplate that closes automatically when you insert a cd
- it has a automatic fuction that shut down the unit past two hours when the ignition is at off position (to prevent the discharge of the vehicle's battery.
I want say that I listen the Sony cd head units (the worst that I have ever seen), the VDO DAYTON ones (it also sucks), the PIONEER ones (aren't bad sounding but the track access speed,...), the ALPINE ones (close to BLAUPUNKT perfomance, but isn't so delightfull at all music frequencies, specially at midband), the ECLIPSE ones ( the same that I say for ALPINE).
If you like head units like I do, buy a BLAUPUNKT one. BLAUPUNKT is subsidiary of BOSCH group, and you know BOSCH is, in fact, very, very good. It deserves a listenning, so try it. I don't like make a product review, but when it is good...
 

Anonymous
 
I forgot say that track access time for MP3 CD's is only 2-3 seconds. Also fantastic!
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 1182
Registered: 12-2003
- it has a nice built in 5 bands equalizer
so does the Alpine CDA-9813/9815, and Alpine's is parametric, with a 3-way crossover as well, all fully adjustable for slope, freq, and cut/boost.

- track access speed is simply the best I have ever seen in car audio
Alpine's is actually equal to, or faster than that blaupunkt.

- it has the best built in RDS-tuner
wonderful. If you live in Europe.
In North America, RDS is useless.
Alpine also has an outstanding RDS tuner by the way, as well as built-on CD Changer control for several models of changers with and without MP3 support, and built-in XM Radio tuner module controls.

- it has cd text that is always scrolling
Alpine's display has quite a few options for two-line CD Text display support, that far surpasses Balupunkt's.

- it has the famous keycard, because car alarms are not suficient to protect our head units to be stoolen.
you sound like you're a freaking sales rep for them.
an alarm is plenty sufficient, as is comprehensive car insurance. Alpine uses removable face plates, Blaupunkt uses a card, Eclipse uses a CD key.. everybody has something.

- it has a motorized faceplate that closes automatically when you insert a cd
Alpine's is not only motorized, but the face angle can be adjusted to allow for unconventional mounting positions, and the face tilt angle can even be adjusted from the wireless remote.

- it has a automatic fuction that shut down the unit past two hours when the ignition is at off position (to prevent the discharge of the vehicle's battery.
Alpines turn off the moment you turn the car off and remove the keys, thus saving even MORE of your car's battery life! hahaha (I couldn't resist that one.)

If you felt the alpine or eclipse was lacking in midbass, that was a defect of the speaker/amp set up and system tuning, not the head unit. Any system is dependant for sound quality on the entire system, not just one component. Anyway here are a couple other points:

Eclipse offers 8V/16V preouts
Alpine offers 4V preouts
both offer at least 3 sets of these on their mid and high end units.
Alpine offers the V-Drive amplifier built into teh above mentioned models, offering substantially more power for a head unit than any others I've seen.
And of course, the biggest reason I'd choose Eclipse, Pioneer Premier, or Alpine over Blaupunkt, being reliability. Blaupunkts aren't built with the same enduring quality, and beyond that, 98% of the Blaupunkts I've seen, in my personal opinion, looked like crap.. just plain ugly!

Granted, I think a lot of the Pioneers are pretty ugly these days too, but I hate black and silver plastic with lots of gaudy multi-color displays.
I think the alpine has a sleek, functional look, and blends smoothly into the rest of my system.

By the way, I'm glad you like that blaupunkt, and I hope it serves you well.
Always good to see a decent review of a product, as long as it remains fairly objective.
 

Anonymous
 
Glasswolf, I must add some information to my message, as you don't understand all that I say in my review of the Blaupunkt. My head unit got "a nice built-in 5 band equalizer" and, as Alpine, is ALSO PARAMETRIC. More,..., when you say that everyone have anything to prevent head units from be stolen I must say that BLAUPUNKT, Has not ONE but Two systems: the KEYCARD and THE REMOVABLE FACEPLATE (Alpine got only the last one). Also when you say that "ALPINE turn itself off when you switch off the ignition" I must say that my BLAUPUNKT ALSO DO THAT (BLAUPUNKT THINKS IN EVERYTHING AND IN EVERY CONSUMER). So the BLAUPUNKT exclusive function is that, when you want listen more music and you have the ignition at off position, past one hour (I made a mistake when I said "past two hours") , it switch itself off automaticaly to prevent the battery from discharge (because this last one is ONLY RECHARGUED as the ignition it is «on» and the BLAUPUNKT works in both positions). When you add that RDS tuner is only useful if you live in Europe, that is OK because, in fact, I live in Europe. I want say that my cousins, my brother, my father always bought BLAUPUNKT and they don't have any technical problem with their head units (my father has 45 years old and he bought several head units since his first bought car). By the way, when I bought this head unit two years ago (when I bought my first car) I also buy two audio cd recorders (to record my own high quality cd's to listen in the car - not the lower quality computer burned cd's) - a PHILIPS CDR-800 and a PIONEER PDRW839 to compare the two at home and return one to the local shop. Do you guess what I have choosed for my home, after use the two? The PHILIPS one. Why, may you ask. Because of the track access speed of the PHILIPS That is very amazing (ALMOST EQUAL TO BLAUPUNKT), the fantastic quality of burned cd's (although Pioneer has also delivered very good results on this aspect), and the internal noise of the pioneer during play (if you don't find too much noise in Pioneer cd recorders during cd-play put your amplifier at "volume 0". Hear it, then skip from the track 1 to 21. Now make the same experience with Philips. Surprised? The Philips is the MORE QUIET AND MORE QUICKER than the Pioneer). This high noise and low speed track access also happen with Pioneer car audio head units, with the VDO DAYTON ones and with the Sony ones (this last two ones sound very poor as I said in my first message). Those facts may not be crucial for you (if you like listen to music at volume 40, I doubt if you hear any internal noise from the head unit)but they are for me, because this says a lot about the quality of a machine. I like EUROPEAN QUALITY ( as you know BLAUPUNKT is a DEUTSCH mark and PHILIPS is a DUTCH mark (FROM HOLLAND)). European marks don't have so many features as Japanese marks have, but when it concerns to quality EUROPEAN marks are hard to beat. MP3 cd's for me, are only for the songs that I haven't the original cd's at home, because I prefer much more my "Philips audio cd recorder" burned audio cd's R/RW. My car speakers are Blaupunkt at front and Goodmanns at rear. I don't like subwoofers, although I am a young person - I like hear the music details at high and mid frequencies, so I like good speakers, not subwoofers. For me low frequencies has to be clear, not boosted. By last, thanks for your commentaries to my review.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Zen936

Post Number: 56
Registered: 01-2004
Its rare that we actually have someone in here who is soooo into his Head Unit! Of course, if they're too over excited with their Head Units, they probably are sales reps!
 

Anonymous
 
If you don't believe in what I say, «Soundbite» just try my head unit in your car (with speakers of any mark, except Sony and those that haven't any mark, that are even worse).
I'm not sale rep., but I will be an enginneer. So be smart, make smart sentences, not poor ironic and patetic ones. People who knows nothing about technology, should listen those that are into that information, not make stupid critics about them. By the way, I think that «Glasswolf» knows a lot about headunits, Alpine and Eclipse are also very good headunits, but I prefer Blaupunkt. What have you got to say against that? Be smart. For me is totally indiferent, what you have in your car. In my car i use what I think that is a better choice, based in what I Know about modern technology and the marks that make clever audio advancements. "Philips", in home technology, make optical transport systems for several high-end home audiophile marks including his born child "Marantz" (In fact, Philips invented CD,the added Cd-text function, the 100Hz tv, the compact cassette, the DCC, have been colaborating in the development of Blu-ray disc, co-invented SACD (Super Audio Compact Disc) with Sony). "Blaupunkt" has made several developments in car audio technology. Now, if you stand don't believe that I'm not a sale rep. do a internet search, to find out that all that I say about that is TRUE. I will not continue add messages to this site, to people that knows nothing about technology, and waste money in marks that don't worth what they pay for (I'm speaking of "Sony", "Pioneer", "Panasonic", "Kenwood", "Jvc"). I'm a student that think before say anything, as you, "Soundbite" should also do the same. It wasn't a bad idea.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 1193
Registered: 12-2003
Philips and Sony actually set up the redbook standard for CompactDisc, yeah.
Marantz is owned by DMC, Inc. who also owns Denon, and McIntosh Labs.

Philips is also responsible for DVD+R and +RW, which they created because they were upset at being cut out of the profits for DVD-R and -RW.

Philips and Marantz also offer some of the best home theater touch-screen remotes, in their Pronto lines.

Now, speaking as an electrical engineer, and an MECP master installer for over a decade, I did want to note a few things about some brands you've mentioned.
Pioneer- you should really give them more credit, as they are responsible for a lot of developmental work as well, and quite a few innovations, and they offer a lot of very high end equipment in certain catagories, while others they are middle of the road. They offer a wide range of products and price ranges though. If you want an example of technology they led the way in, look at the LaserDisc.

Sony- should never have gotten into car audio. Honestly, the only products of Sony's I'd consider owning are their trinitron aperture-grille CRTs, maybe a PlayStation.. but nothing in the way of audio equipment for home or car.

Panasonic- They made a couple of amazingly good DVD and DVD-A players for the home market, of which I own one, using the Faroudja DCDi decoder chipset, but their reliability in general isn't good because they ahve poor build quality in many of their products, and you can see this under close examination. Lots of cheap plastic, and weak design, which leads to premature breakage.

Kenwood- I haven't liked since way back in the 80s. I've never seen good product reliability from them, although they offer great features, good pricing, and good looks.. they just don't perform well, nor do they hold up over time.

JVC- This company in regards to car audio, look at tehir DigiFine series. That's equivalent to Pioneer's Premiere, or Kenwood's Excelon lines.. The higher end stuff with good line out voltages, more features etc. Great units for cheap. If you can't spend much, it's a good alternative to teh higher priced units on the market we tend to recommend first.

My thing about Blaupunkt is mostly aesthetics. I've always found their design to be terrible. Ugly, plain looking units with small, not too user friendly buttons, and very simplistic LCD displays that look a lot like something I'd find in an old 80s stock audio system from a chevy or a toyota.
The newer units have gotten better though.

if you want to see the alpine I was referring to in the earlier post, I have a couple pictures of it, installed in my Jeep here:
http://www.wickedcases.com/jeep/page2.html

 

Bronze Member
Username: Zen936

Post Number: 57
Registered: 01-2004
Anonymous...we do not have to BELIEVE in what you say. If you say your Blaupunkt is good, then it's good! Everyone has their own opinion. I got a Clarion DXZ835MP head unit. It's a good head unit, but you don't see me writing almost half a page on it, trying to convince people that it's a good unit. It would be as if we're just trying to convince ourselves that it's a good unit. Seriously, go ahead and try to convince anyone in here that it's a good head unit. Everyone's just gonna think that it's your first time buying a head unit.

I listen to Glasswolf more because he makes good remarks. Your review is as if you're practically reading all the features from the box itself!

"I want say that I listen the Sony cd head units (the worst that I have ever seen), the VDO DAYTON ones (it also sucks), the PIONEER ones (aren't bad sounding but the track access speed,...), the ALPINE ones (close to BLAUPUNKT perfomance, but isn't so delightfull at all music frequencies, specially at midband), the ECLIPSE ones ( the same that I say for ALPINE)"

Read what you just wrote. You're just better off saying, "Oh Blaupunkt is cool" and "Sony sucks dude". If you're gonna convince people then at least know what you are talking about.

--> close to BLAUPUNKT perfomance, but isn't so delightfull at all music frequencies, specially at midband <-- Wow coming from a wanna be engineer, that is some intelligent review! Delightful?? Yeah...right. Out of curiousity, are you from the States? Coz if you are, people would just laugh at you if you were to talk of blaupunkt.

Of course if you had more cash, you wouldn't be talking about how Blaupunkt was 'cool'. Oh and how long did it take you to save up your allowance money before you could afford your head unit? :-)
 

Anonymous
 
Everyone got their opininion about a product. I must say that is true.
"Soundbite" I'm not english neither from the states, neither from the united kingdom. In fact, as I have said I live in Europe, but my language is not the english. So, I don't care about who may laugh at me. If a person want laugh at another because of the use of the language, this means only one thing - lack of respect by them. I like say what I think about the products that I own, have owned or have been listen on frends systems, some of them much more expensive that mine, others not. Who is you to talking about the money that I have? People spent the money that they want, or have to spent, nobody should say anything about that. Good luck. I will never turn back written to this thread, no matter you post another message or not. Nobody is perfect, with the exception of God. My excuses, if you are disappointed in the way that I wrote. For you, «Soundbite», my message has finished.
«Glasswolf» your head unit looks great, I already have seen and heard the CDA-9813 in a friend car, but without external equalizer and with JBL speakers. About the Pioneer, although I known that they have been made several inovations and developmental work, with the exception of DVD-R/DVD-RW, I don't like much the other products of Pioneer - it's just my opinion. Laserdisc in Europe never caught much success (other formats, like the DCC that I mentioned, the CD-I (another Philips invention) minidisc and DAT (both invented by Sony) also never had success). However, the DVD, that had been developing mostly by Pioneer had caught success early that was expected. Market is imprevisive to all the manufacturers. "Glasswolf", my excuses to anything that may offended you. Goodbye.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 1201
Registered: 12-2003
he did mention that he's in Europe, when he remarked on his preference for European (German) engineering.

I'm glad he likes that Blaupunkt, really. It's cool. I mean it's not like he was trying to put a shine on a Snoy or something *laugh* I just choked a bit at the thread topic calling it the "best." I personally like Eclipse the best for raw performance, even if I don't find them the most attractive units on the market regarding looks.

We all have our preferences though. I like American made amplifiers the best hands down, with the possible exception of Sinfoni. The Italians did some good work there. The Germans have done a great job with DynAudio for component speakers though, I'll give em that one gladly.

Anyway this has been an enjoyable thread in any event, if just for the lack of hostilities in general. No name-calling, or insults.. just honest opinions and data on products.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Zen936

Post Number: 58
Registered: 01-2004
Anonymous - Please don't get me wrong. Everything comes in a package. Sound doesn't come out directly from HUs. For all you know, the reason your HU sounds good is because you got a proper pair of speakers and amp to run them. Speakers, amps, they all play a part. For you to say Alpines and Eclipse "isnt so delightful" is to say the least, disgraceful. Because a remark like that would get the Alpine and Eclipse fans, all over you in a second. You'd have to be a professional to make a remark like that and I don't think you have the expertise in that area just as yet.

BOSCH is a mediocre European company. They usually supply stock parts for most European cars (eg. headlights, bulbls, indicator lights). Just because a company is good in one area doesn't mean it will excel in the rest. Take a look at Sony. No one asked you to turn your back on this thread. But the way I see it, your review on other HUs have flaws. That said, I'm just not convinced that your Blaupunkt HU is all that you say it is. But regardless, it is good that you stand by your unit. After all, we all have our opinions.

Glasswolf - Yeah that's what I figured. All this neither from uk or neither from states stuff is boggling my mind. That said, I felt like he was limited to the types of HUs he's seen. I've spent 6 years in London and Europe tends to promote their own stuff. US brands and Japanese brands are marked up high to promote the local brands.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 1208
Registered: 12-2003
I'd noticed that. People in the UK hava a hellish time getting things like Alpine or JL Audio, etc.
Very expensive.
This is partly due to the import tariffs as well I'd imagine. They tax the hell out of everything.
Worse tahn Canada even. *grin*

I haven't spent time in the EU myself, but I did live for quite a while in the Far East. It's a whole different world over there for sure.
 

Tim L.
Unregistered guest
whoa..

o.k., i BELIEVE this guy's HU is one of the best, for HIM.. for certain reasons he lists, such as quick and quiet track shifts, etc.. should he have taken such a negative stance toward alpine, pioneer, and eclipse? no..

i didn't think anything of his imperfect english.. it's not his fault.. actually, he speaks it QUITE WELL..

in MY honest opinion.. i think blaupunkt's are PLAIN UGLY as well. =4.. and though it has NOTHING to DO with product QUALITY, the NAME BLAUPUNKT just isn't a GREAT sounding name.. stuff like that actually does effect sales of products to a degree, of any product..

to CONTRIBUTE to this thread's technology discussion..

FOR THE RECORD..

CLARION brought the FIRST transistor car radio..

PHILIPS INVENTED CD, BUT we are talking about CAR AUDIO and PIONEER pioneered the FIRST car audio cd player/HU.. as for other things, as given credit, their DVD recorders are top quality, bein accepted as DVD manufacturers' industry standard, and their PLASMA SCREENS? have 780p RESOLUTION, 60 HIGHER than typical 720p HD..

PANASONIC, introduced the first automotive DVD HU..

my POINT?.. just because you INVENTED or POPULARIZED a technology even, doesn't NECESSARILY GUARANTEE that you REMAIN the STANDARD.. often, it does, but not always..

countries' tariffs are to PROMOTE and PROTECT the DOMESTIC MARKET..
 

SamW
Unregistered guest
Hello anon & Glasswolf, Tim L & that dude that laughs at europeans (wait till wer'e a SUPERSTATE then well show you).
I love my Blaupunkt dearly. Yes it isn't the preitest but i dont give care realy. I like its little blue spot etc. Some of the alpines pioneers i see here in the uk are a bit o.t.t. for me with there full colour displays etc. I mean whats the point? Head unit are for playing tunes and my blaupunkt does a great job. Practical discrete and quality are good words for blaupunkt. Quality, practical controls, discrete informative display etc.
I'm goin' to but my but up for a whoopin from sound bite and Glasswolf and say my unit is better than all yours. DAB radio caps it and the fact that it also records digital radio. Yeah you can play music but i can record it. What better place to be able to record music than in your car. I mean who the hell sits at home listening to radio with their fingers ready at the record button (its perfect i think). As for mp3 a little bird tells me that an ipod type device is coming soon from blaupunkt which will be controlable through the head unint and have a massive storage capacity. Afteral headunits are just the start of a good system, next you need easy access to loads of music and then you need some powerful and high quality speakers pumping them
Anyway the head unit can only do so. Having said that blaupunk make a range of speakers but has any one ever seen them?
And all that stuff about who made what first, Blaupunkt made the first European car radio (probably the first in the world and if not i bet you yanks didn't make it) so ha.

Guess i probably missed this thread anyways
(but remember SUPERSTATE!! and George Dub-yas a menice to the world and is going to hell. He'll kill us all.
Leave isreal alone, its big enough and old enough to look after itself. Then stop going to war illeagaly. And if your going to nick loads of oil from those iraqies then you better share it with us dam it, $65 for 40litre diesel tank its a funkin joke. Yeah im just jealous those arabs are twist bunch of ......Lets nick all their oil.
Oh and anotherthing we make better offroad vehical than you wanks. Styer puch Pinzguares leave humers in the dust. Better ground clearance, sensible body width and 6x6 as well as 4x4 platform. My old mans got one, its the balls.
And you can't make good sports cars. Or any sort of car. Your always importing Biemers, Mercs and Audi (all German, some with blaupukt steros and most with Bosh parts). No one apart form the head cases goes out and gets a corvet or a chey truck or whatever. Jeeps perhaps but those new cherokees have taken all my respect away from jeep. Mercedes G wagon where its at.
You can try and knock blaupunkt or laugh at them if you like but you yanks can't make head units properly either.
 

Anonymous
 
I said that I will never return to this thread, but I have changed of ideas (oh! my sentences will probably bog «Soundbite»'s mind. He seems to be the kind of person that is perfect apparently, he laughs at my english, but when you look close at him, you discover his dark side.)
Repplying to a «soundbite» sentence: how can I be sure that «Glasswolf» isn't a sale reps of PIONEER, ALPINE and ECLIPSE. Actually, if «Soundbite» doubts the true of what I said, I may also doubt of him. he could also be a sales rep of those marks.
I'm still saying that I love European marks - PHILIPS at consumer electronics, BLAUPUNKT at car stereos. I also like very much European cars - VW, AUDI, BMW, MERCEDES - for me they are simply the BEST OF THE WORLD, although I don't dislike some japanese marks - HONDA and TOYOTA - as they have very good build quality and reliability. The same I can't say about American cars. FORD has a ugly design and average build quality. Although it is being improved, it is still so-so. I have liked the Jeep Grand Cherokee for years, as my uncle get one in 1998, but the look of the new model lack the beauty of the 1998 design. Now he has an Audi A6 2.8 TDI - very beautiful!
About other sentence when you say that I like and know a lot about my head unit because I «simply copied what I read in the box» and I have few money I must say :
- you »soundbite» never looked at a BLAUPUNKT box - they have few information about the head unit.
- you think that a head unit is good if you spent all your money to bought it? well, to your information I have an AUDI A3 1.9 TDI (2000)- you couldn't afford it? It's a pity ! nice car! would be even better with an ALPINE expensive unit, you may think. I don't think so. BLAUPUNKT is the best to me. when my father bought it with about an year of use for me it came with a Blaupunkt cassette deck. It was working perfectly but I prefer CD's over cassettes, so I have choosed this unit after listen several marks in the shop.
A note to Glasswolf - alpine is not so quick at track access speed as my blaupunkt - your watch is counting time very slow. I have discovered it when in the last month I see some expensive Alpine models in a shop with an original CD inside. I couldn't resist to test it.

It's nice to meet in this thread a person that is very clever. I'm speaking of SamW. As I understood he is also european as I am. I agree with him at all. Also, when he speaks about the stupid war that America has begun. American people think they are the best of the world, they seems to dislike everything except money - MONEY, POWER - are all that they love. I'm very disappointed with some european countries that are supporting the ambition of americans - they still think that they will won the war - they must be crazy at all. A terrorism war will not be won with other war, but america don't care that so innocent european victimes will still be dieing day after day - they only want to be the best country of the world, the most powerful country. They are better things in life instead of the ambition of power and money. The sports, for example,not only for competition, but also for fun.

PEACE, HEALTH and LOVE is what I think that is important for the humanity. But the Americans are destroying themselves, and some innocent european people. Please, GOD save Europe, because we are innocent, we don't want more wars, just the three things that I start to say in this paragraph.
 

Anonymous
 
I know that the Audi A6 that my uncle bought it is not an offroad vehicle, but he don't want one anymore. And he also don't like american vehicles anymore.
I added this, because I know that some people seems to have always anything to say to criticize others.
We should have more respect by the others. Actually we are all humans. However, not everyone agree with me.
 

Some poor english guy trying to make ends meet
Unregistered guest
I was just browsing the internet, searching for the model number of a head unit I wish to buy (Second hand). I trawlled thro googles threads and came accross this handbag bashing affair.

Hey euro guy! Get your di*k outha your cd player and do something useful with your life.

Just for for the record - I really can't stand americans...

You'll never see me again, ever. Muhaha...

 

SamW
Unregistered guest
This thread can't stray much further away from H/Us.
Audi and Blaupunkt. Quality all the way.
Seems we have a quite a bit in comman Anon, my Father drives an 2.5TDI A6 "allroader".
Like you say, not really an offroad vehicle but definatly a good looking machine (turns heads). A3 1.9, nice! I drive an A4 1.9Tdi love it also (older but solid as a rock).

Drive safely
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 1582
Registered: Dec-03
Sam,
nice features, but why record low quality sound from a radio station at all when you can download the mp3 or buy the CD? plus whpo wants a person distracted from driving while he tries to record some Nelly tune on the radio when it plays.. haha
As for Israel, yeah they kick butt, but old?
They're even younger than the US. They've only existed at all since the 1950s you know.
The only reason they do exist as a country is because they were given the land by the brits after the second world war.
not that I'm arguing about it. I think we should give them the entire middle east for target practice. They can start with Syria.

" American people think they are the best of the world, they seems to dislike everything except money"
this is just your typical uneducated, misinformed european trash-talking BS. You wonder why everybody else thinks the French are idiots, the Germans are more arrogant than God, and the rest of the EU is backwards third-world rubbish? That's why in a nutshell.

As for Alpine's MP3 loading times, it's fast enough on my 9813 that it doesn't seem any different between an MP3 and a normal CD, so I have no idea what you're looking at when you think it's slow. That's with an MP3 CD with 140 tracks on it in one folder.

As for good companies and their origens, the US has the best companies for subs and amplifiers. Germany has some of the best for component speakers, and Japan has it for head units. It's about that simple. No one place has the best of everything, and I've lived in a number of countries.. None of them are perfect.
You have just as many problems as anyone else.
Get over yourselves. Please.
 

Bill
Unregistered guest
eclipse,pioneer,are my two preferences you guys talking trash I still have my dehp7200 and It still sounds better then any blaupunk panisonic or jvc I have had them all It isint glasswolfs fault you europeans cant figure out how to run a pioneer head unit hell my wife still dont know and i have had it since 2000 so stick with youre blaupunk bass trebel analog 5 band and I will keep my 7200 it dont look like a calculator with hot pink and baby blue phone buttons or a 1995 cell phone hell get a ppi deq230 and the right setup and they all sound good!! out bill.
 

beyondthat
Unregistered guest
wow, my lord! You guys on this site have no life. I bet you people never get laid, nice life hahaha
 

hkgh
Unregistered guest
WTF? I seriously agree with this guy...except the never getting laid part, I have decided for myself that I will never make assumptions about peoples lives (sex lives in particular). Anyway I would just like to say that I think Alpine and Pioneer Premier makes some pretty cool head units!
 

New member
Username: 8trackkid

San Luis Obispo, Ca USA

Post Number: 8
Registered: Apr-04
"I'm a student that think before say anything"

Umm, student of what, E.U. Correspondence School of Upholstery/TV-VCR repair???

Damnit, most people in India are better versed in English than this anon.

 

New member
Username: Zen936

BruneiBrunei Darus...

Post Number: 4
Registered: Feb-04
FROM SOUNDBITE

Sorry. Been bz with life coz I do infact have one! But I can't believe this thread is still running! Well I guess I should be blamed a bit for getting his pan all heated up! Hehehe.

"You think that a head unit is good if you spent all your money to bought it? well, to your information I have an AUDI A3 1.9 TDI (2000)- you couldn't afford it? It's a pity ! nice car! would be even better with an ALPINE expensive unit, you may think."

Wouldn't want to buy an Audi anyway. It suxs. Yeah I probably can't afford it because I've already got my Porsche Boxster (can you afford that??) and an HKS tuned Nismo Nissan Skyline R34 (How about that?). And dude, with the Skyline, I could have your Audi for supper! Here's a pic for you to drool on!

Oh btw the Porsche is using BOSE sound system. I'm sure Glasswolf has no any arguments on BOSE because I consider it up there with Bang and Olufsen and Harman Kardon, another top European brand. The Skyline uses Clarion HU, Alpine speakers and Kicker 5 channel amp.

Oh and for the sake of not straying out of the topic of the thread, BLAUPUNKT still sux! Rest my case. Gdnite all...

SOUNDBITE
 

New member
Username: Zen936

BruneiBrunei Darus...

Post Number: 5
Registered: Feb-04
Pic of Skyline and Boxster
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 2295
Registered: Dec-03
ehh honestly I can't stand Bose.
they're a horrible audio company and their speakers totally lack a good high end or low end.
I just did a mazda RX-8 with a bose system, and kept the head unit, replaced everything else with diamond hex, rockford fosgate, and JL audio stuff.
Night and day improvement.
Bose got popular much like sony, decades ago, and have been riding on the coat tails of their name ever since. B&O makes fancy gear with poor reliability and average sound quality.. but extremely overpriced. Pretty, though!
If you want pretty and unbelievable, look at Martin Logan and Krell for speakers and amps at home.
Now the skyline's system sounds nice. clarion's got nice head units, and good prices.
Kicker's always had good products, depending on which ones you go with.

anyway it's all personal opinion I suppose.
if we're just here to brag, I have a 7350sq foot house on lakefront property, and a '66 hemi charger.. but I don't see that this proves much.
I'm looking at buying a new(ish) car now, but I refuse to pay a king's ransom for a decent car off the lot, so I'm going used. I want good gas economy (mid 20's MPG at least) and most importantly, affordable insurance rates..
with that in mind, I still wanted something with a bit of style, so I've narrowed the looking down to a couple of 2001 model cars. one is a hyundai tiburon veilside with an alpine development turbo kit, and the other is a dodge intrepid R/T which has much more in the way of space and luxury amenities. I'm in my mid 30s, so I'm at a point where a sports sedan is looking appealing now..
The Intrepid would cost me a bit more, but it's probably put together a bit better too.
they both have ~250BHP, but of course the Tiburon weighs quite a bit less.
Anyway, choices choices.
still playing around with system ideas for the cars, too.
Eclipse CD8454 CD player
2 Audiocontrol EQT equalizers (right/left)
Zapco SP4-SL pre-amp/4 band EQ with vol, fader, sub level and 16 volt line driver via balanced DIN cables
Zapco C2K 4.0X amp bridged to 180wRMS x 2
DynAudio System 360 front stage
Zapco C2K 9.0X amp @ 600wRMS x 2 @ 2 ohms stereo
2 Eclipse SW9122 12" Titanium subs in aperiodic enclosures
250A alternator, 1/0 gauge distro, two optima deep cycles in back, etc..
I keep shifting things around a bit though
 

New member
Username: Zen936

BruneiBrunei Darus...

Post Number: 6
Registered: Feb-04
Haha. Well I guess you would know best in this area GW. But you have to admit, BOSE has a catchier name then Blaupunkt! It was sort of the only audio upgrade made available especially for the Porsche so I didn't really have much of a choice. Anyhow back to work people!
 

Anonymous
 
Blaupunkt is Blowchunks!
 

SamW
Unregistered guest
O.K Glasswolf. The recording quality isn't brill but it ain't bad. I can't afford to buy that many cds and i'm on 56kbps connection so downloads are a waste of time (there aren't any sites like i-Tunes here either yet except my coke music which doesn't work on my pc). Still comin from a guy who thinks 20mpg is good fuel economy (i couldn't belive that one, christ i need to get off this shitty little island, 20mpg cars are probably ban in England) and lives in a mansion i can see what your sayin.
What does blowchunks mean? Means their good i guess.
Quite interseting being involed in this thread and talkin with similar people from all over the place. I thought i'd take a look today after leaving it a few weeks and all you guys are still doin it as well.
Could be a business op for you GW. Import audio equipment to uk. You right, our range of goods does suck here. Maybe you could do it on the internet or something.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 2385
Registered: Dec-03
25MPG is average these days, but it sure is better than either the Charger or the Grand Cherokee gets. 25MPG from an automatic in the city is great for a 3 door sportscar (the Tiburon) and about the same for the Intrepid which by comparison is a rather large 5 person sports sedan.
Just because I don't drive some crappy citreon or mini that gets 60MPG, doesn't mean I'm some uncaring jaded unknowing "typical american"
I've lived in Korea, Japan, Ireland, and plenty of places where things are quite different.

The Jeep is great for the snow we get here though which most 2WD cars can't forge through.
the 4WD SUV can, but it eats gas doing so, even with its 5sp. transmission.
I love how people who don't do anything and therefore don't have anything always hate on the people who are even the least bit prosperous or successful. Sour grapes.

As for blowing chunks, it means to vomit, puke, throw up, or regurgitate. It's not good.

the main problem with importing to the UK are your import tarrifs, taxes, etc.
Britain taxes the crap out of anything foreign to stimulate native growth.. supposedly.
If there was some way around that, it'd be just as easy to import things to the UK as it is for the US to import things from all over without any effect on pricing.
Sorry mate.
maybe time to move :-)
 

Harazen aka Soundbite
Unregistered guest
Here's an example of Brit taxing to the max. A Playstation2 game imported from Japan would set you back at least £59 pound sterling. That's like US$105!!

You'd think that by limiting the stuff coming in, they'd end up making good audio equipment. I used to remember one brand "Goodmans". Is that a name or what??

Sorry not dissing the stuff sold there, but it seems like US spends a lot more time on sound systems then UK does.

We work hard to get our hard earned cash so I guess it's normal that we'd want to spoil ourselves just to make ourselves happy. :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 2395
Registered: Dec-03
oh I know.
my home system uses speakers made in the UK actually, in England.
great stuff.
It's just a shame they don't allow importation more readily.
 

Anonymous
 
I must be honest. when I create this thread, I never imagine that so many people would be interested in give their opinions about a mark that for the most of you has ugly design, it isn't that great, «were popular in the 80's, as factory equipment of german cars».

But I must confess that now I am a happy men. Why? Because «most people in India are better versed in English» than me. Because everyday I turn on my tv set to watch the news, I find a journalist that isn't speaking correctly even the language of the country where he/she lives (I'm not speaking only of my country national tv channels). Maybe that the people in this thread are better versed in english than me, but what about speaking correctly italian, french, spanish, deutsch, hungarian? you could do that? I'm sure that not. you could made one or two sentences correctly written in any of those languages and no more.

English is more important than those languages, you may say. that is true. But it is a pity that they are so many people that like the english language even without understand one word of it. the same is valid for the english music. So many people that don't understand one word of english but like listenning to music written in that language. They will be smart people, if they understand what they are listenning to, but as they don't understand they are fool people. I'm not saying that I dislike all the music written in english. I'm just saying that are good english songs and bad ones, as in any language of the world.

Glasswold, about what I think about the war that still goes on, I must say that I said all that because it is very unpleasant that everyday the number of deaths caused by the war increase, it doesn't matter if they are americans, english or iraquians - many people were innocent, and missed their lifes. When I had seen on tv what George Bush said several times that the americans will win the war and he will send more men to the Iraq if he needs that - o.k., maybe that you americans will win the war, as they are so many people that thinks that you americans are the top of human civilization, so you need prove that you are the best in the world. Anyway I ask: you don't care about who died in the war if you will be the winners?

About the cars that «soundbite» have - o.k., good if you like those cars. For me it isn't important what car each one of us have, I like mine, but I don't like a friend because of his/her car, but about if he/she is (or it is not) a good person. I'm sure that many peole think you are cool maybe, because you are really cool (as I couldn't judge you without meet you personally - well, in fact, I never wished meet a person personally about with I had speaked on the net), maybe you are not really cool. I don't care what is the real fact.
I'm happy because my girlfriend likes me with or without my car. In fact she also drives a good car that his father gave to her - a 99' BMW 523 TDS (his father is medic, a neo-surgeon). Also my friends think I always has been a cool guy. Some them like more the headunits of Pioneer as they are more stylish to some peoples likes, thanks to the OEL DISPLAY, as the model DEH-P7500MP or the DEH-P9500MP (the last equivalent to the models BREMEN CD 72 and SAN FRANCISCO CD 72 from BLAUPUNKT as they also have a built-in 13 band parametric equalizer self-adjusted by a supplied microphone and TIME CORRECTION - the information on the blaupunkt USA site are incorrect as they speaking in only 5 bands and this last equalizer is included in my LOS ANGELES MP 72 which is also self-adjustable by a supplied microphone,and not in the others mentioned models - if you not believe in me, visit www.blaupunkt.de - o.k. you may not understand german but you choose in this site autoradios, click on skyline, then in the refered two models, now you read «DSA (DigitalSoundAdjustment): Digitaler selbsteinmessender Equalizer mit 4 Kanalen / 13 Bandern».)

Have a nice day!

 

Anonymous
 
when you read, «When I create...», you should read «When I created...».

Thank you!
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 2403
Registered: Dec-03
"there is no such thing as a good war."
I believe that was Benjamin Franklin.
Anyway war is never a good thing, but then neither is terrorism or any attack on another person.
Sadly more people have been killed in the name of religion, than for any other reason in history.
That makes me wonder if organized religion is even a good idea.

As for English, yes most Americans can't even use the language properly, and having a degree in English, I can say that. I shudder at the grammar and spelling atrocities I see daily on the Internet. Now, that being said, I can also speak Korean and Japanese, and a smattering of German, Spanish, and Russian. I suppose I'm not your typical person on the street though, and I couldn't tell you if that's a good thing or not.

While a car doesn't make you a good person, it does get hot chicks at the club. " haha

don't let the trolls get to you when they pop in with an anonymous post attacking you for some silly reason like your inability to grammatize a sentence. At least you're trying, and with English not being your primary language, you're doing a good enough job to get your point across, which is more than I can even say for these kids who try using their pseudo-ebonics street slang and text messaging abbreviations to try looking cool, and come across as totally illiterate asswipes instead.

nice features on the parametric EQ, and the organic displays are the new thing, but I wonder about their longevity.

you may get a kick out of the plans I'm playing with for my next car (2001 Hyundai Tiburon)
www.wickedcases.com/misc/system.jpg
note, I'm even using German speakers for the front stage!
Japanese subs, American amplifiers, and a Japanese head unit, with, again, American sound shaping and pre-amp components.
not a bad combination overall.
 

SamW
Unregistered guest
Ok mate I don't want to hate you just because you have a nice car and a lake (i,ve got three lakes haha!)
www.blacklandlakes.co.uk
Yes their my dads but one day it be mine. If any of you guys like camping and fishing come on down.
We've got to take mpg more seriously around here. Fuel goes for 80 pence per litre.
Diesel seems to me to be the fuel of the future. Hard to belive perhaps for you boys and I don't expect they'll be bothered in America. Their getting cleaner, more efficent and alot faster. Their starting to make sport diesels, Aduis' A8 comes with a v8 petrol or v8 biturbo diesel and both get to 60mph in under 4sec. The petrol is quicker and non turbo but its early days.
Textin is usefull and i do type a few messages a day, sometimes more than i'll type on a keyboard or write on paper. It kinda rubs off i guess, alot more than I thought it would, it's just a more natural way to think for me it seems. What the funk does eubonics mean?

I'm considering kitting out my car with a 3way component front speaker set. My local car audio specailist tells me Focal are the balls and the K2 range are the top or their range from what i can see. Whats the consensus of opinion on focal? I can spend about $750 on front speakers, if DYNAudio are German they should be avialable here? How much do those 360 ones retail for.

 

Sounbite
Unregistered guest
Hehehe. Talk about going out of topic!
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 2451
Registered: Dec-03
Focal is good, bud it's a French company and I have no desire to support France in anything.

DynAudio is a great German alternative
 

Bronze Member
Username: Steveo

?????, CA USA

Post Number: 32
Registered: Mar-04
Ebonics is slang that the african americans and people wanting to be african. Try pasting your post into the translator at this site http://www.joel.net/EBONICS/translator.asp. Not really true ebonics, but you will get the point.
 

SamW
Unregistered guest
Fantastic Steveo, dis here translator iz great. It'snow in muh ma funkin favourites an' muh ma funkin name iz now Afro Sam. just like mammy.

 

New member
Username: Hairball

City of Angels

Post Number: 7
Registered: May-04
GlassWolf mentioned Martin Logan and Krell for home speakers, definitely very nice. At a Hi-Fi Show in San Fran years ago, I got to hear a pair of Wilson Grand-Slams, about $80k if I remember correctly. I was stunned and felt like an entire orchestra was playing before me, deepest lows, ridiculous imaging, just amazing, my words can't describe it.

Anyone else hear these? yes, off topic.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 2730
Registered: Dec-03
yup.
I like them, but I like Martin Logan's Statement E2 set for about $75k as well

I'm a big fan of electrostatic panels.
 

xJoshx look I put x's how stupid
Unregistered guest
What the hell did the Foreign guy say about music? Dude, I thought this thread was pretty ignorant from both sides of the globe AT TIMES, but that comment about music and English was lame. I'm just going to say it, we OWN (This is slang for kick your "cul" at, etc, whatever) Music. I mean sure Germany has David Hasselholf, hahahahahahahaha! When it comes to Blues, which birthed all modern music..Country, Rock, Punk, Metal, Rap, ALt, Hardcore, Emo, etc Americans were responsible for it (I'm not denying the large number of incredible artist from all over the world either). We were also responsible for the electric guitar (Fender and Gibson). Although Jim Marshall has created an empire of British sound with Marshall amps, brands like Peavey (my 5150 kickes the crap out of my marshall) and Mesa Boogie have taken over. As a musician you just pissed me off; though I suppose I could write songs in French, but then I'd have to DO a song, since there verb usage is so F'dicken stupid. Ball ar a feminine word in French...anyway...BMW and your other Euro cars happen to be made in the USA these days as well. Even in Hickville South Carolina there is a large BMW plant. I own a 7 series BMW, and I didn't leave the Blaupunkt HU in it because it just didn't have what I needed, however my dad and my sister have Blaupunkt HU in there TRUCSK and sure they are decent. Speaking of cars, Bosch makes some crap, even though my BMW has so many electrical gadgets with that logo stamped onto it. Bosch platinum spark plugs anyone? SUCKED BALLS! I'm tired of getting knocked on for being American, especially by the dirty French, I wish I didn't even know there language. We should all be much slower to judge. Don't knock GlassWolf for his Gas Mileage, I also have the need for 4-whd and simply put you can't get good gas mileage in something low geared with a lot of weight. My BMW only gets around 24 mpg. Also, my guitar amps, guitars, surfboards, skateboards, snowboards, and friends can't exactly fit in a 6 foot car, we don't get 60 mpg (well some of US get more or close to) because we don't like making 80 trips to pick up our friends and stuff. Eventually we'll all be burning off of alcohol from things like corn, because fossil fuels will be gone; that and it produces hella power...see Top Fuel Dragster burning alcohol. By the way does anyone know what DB they hit when they pop one of those things off, It's gotta be 130+ easy. Well my ignorant post is getting long and boring. Euro guy watch what you say about music or I'll come over there to your amazing 15 whopping acres of land and smack you with my old Bluanpunkt HU and Amp. American people don't judge. God kicks @$$, religion sucks as bad as pyramid. Can't we just turn our music so we can't hear each other biotchin at one another...that way even though we are screaming at each other it'll just look like we are singing. WORST POST EVER...bye bye
 

PEACE
Unregistered guest
I've heard some of the most retarded comments from some smart people in this post. You all should just deal with the fact that nothing/nobody/any country/anything is the best in everything. Everything has pros and cons, and saying that one thing is better than another is as subjective as the adjective can get. All of you should just get over yourselves and your stereotypes and learn to respect other people and their opinions, even though they may be different from ours. Peace.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Germanguy

Post Number: 18
Registered: May-04
Well, I feel a bit sorry for my european fellow here. Your arguments doesn't really sound like you're going to be a famous ingeneer. if you study ingeneering in Germany it's one of the toughest things you can experience, and of course an open mind should be a basic qualification. I've seen guys fail who were actually really smart and thought they just take the walk through university, so good luck !
Anyway, the Blaupunkt story seems a bit overrated. They do have some of the best tuners, I agree, but everything else is just mainstream or below. And about the design, well, you know if you feel like showing off in Germany, the design needs to remain a complete understatement. The more blinking lights, chrome stuff all around, the cheaper it appears. If you need to take a closer look and get into the details, thats showing off a high quality system in Germany. But that doesn't mean that Blaupunkt is a high end HU.
Even some germans invented MP3, I'm afraid there are not too many audio-people here who do actually make us proud of german audio manufacturing, but a few. SO not to let Germany's reputation go down here a few names:

For car-audio let me name Brax, the inventors of power-caps and also one of the best ever manufacturers for SQ-amps, if not the best.
http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/index2.html
Unfortunately also expensive as hell.
For Car-Speakers I would recommend Andrian-Audio, by the way an american who settled in Germany in 1956, details at www.andrian-audio.de. Thanks for this guy, who claims he invented his speaker-sound by just his natural hearing without any help of electronic devices. Well, once upon a time...still he makes super speakers many comercial installers tell me it's the best system world wide below 600 $.
Then we have THE top of the line company in home audio in Berlin named Teufel(www.teufel.de).

But I do think that USA builds the best stuff in most categories. And when I look at the new Alpine HU's, that's just the kind of understatement I was looking for while enjoying a SQ I would love to hear from a Blaupunkt, but unfortunately never have.
 

Anonymous
 
To(xJoshx look I put x's how stupid) as for your comment on "BMW and your other Euro cars happen to be made in the USA" you just wonder why the build quality of these cars have plummetted since they started making them in the USA, contingency plans have now been put in place to drastically turn around the QC for these cars. Mercedes-benz, BMW, VW have all been affected, when the cars where made in Germany the consumer never had these problems.
Dont get me wrong I am not saying Americans are incompetant or lazy but many people would agree the German people are excellent engineers,and there culture in my opinion is highly geared towards an engineers way of thinking (building,designing, and Quality Control). In a perfect world the Germans would make the picnic basket and the Italians would prepare the food.

An Example of this theory:Lamborghini Gallardo
German Built- ensure everything works
Italian Designed - It looks good!

TItalian Police now have a Lamborghini Gallardo where else in the world would you get a Lamborghini Police Car, and Armani designed uniforms!!!!
 

Silver Member
Username: Soccer

Post Number: 211
Registered: Apr-04
JUST A FEW THOUGHTS...:


- Fiat bought some years ago Lamborghini, but a Lamborghini is still better than any Fiat

- When I'm in the car, I only use about 10% of the HU features, 'cause I'm too busy listening to MUSIC

- Pioneer still has (and feeds most companies) one of the best FM plates of the market
 

Silver Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 508
Registered: May-04
Exactly. Features aren't what should sell you on a unit. What about Eclipse, also? 13 band graphic eq. in addition to a 5 band parametric he's raving about, in addition to selectable crossover frequencies and slopes. 24 bit DAC's, also RELIABILITY. Bosch is mediocre at best. I've seen many of their electronic components fail. One of the simplest was an electric fan I used on a 65 mustang, very, very simple electronics (the electronics used to control the fan's temperature sensing to turn on and off), consisted only of a thermocouple, potentiometers (to set the voltage to trigger the relay), and a relay, all failed on me numerous times (in a matter of days) before I just got fed up with it and wired the motor off a switch. Even the set screw was made of very cheap plastic, not good in a very hot engine compartment, along with the crappy components. Just answering this guy's fascination with Blaupunkt.
 

Silver Member
Username: Soccer

Post Number: 212
Registered: Apr-04
Well, on the other end, I'm also an owner of a Blaupunkt HU (the MP53), and so far no complaints, in fact I don't think the HU is the most important component on a car system, quality wised, maybe because it's not every day I change it. A professinal like GlassWolf, yes, would try several HU's in one day...
Enjoy
 

UFO
Unregistered guest
Hello - I don't want to get into the whole Blaupunkt vs. Everything Else debate, 'cause I've never owned a Blaupunkt. I am, however, interested in a new head unit because....I made the mistake of installing an Alpine 9827.
Oh, it's got great specs & all, and is fully MP3/WMA capable which is why I bought it. But I want to enter a serious dissenting note to the songs of praise of the Glories of Alpine.

One small problem is that the snazzy display is flat-out impossible to read in anything but total darkness. I tend to spend inordinate amounts of time in the daylight, unfortunately - and worse, I live in a place where it's sunny lots of the time. This is the kind of engineering boneheadedness that makes you want to break things and kick people.

Coupled with Alpine's decision to use a display that's impossible to read in anything but pitch blackness, there are four buttons right next to it that are lit up like Dodger Stadium on game night. They can't be shut off, but the non-readable (i.e. too dim) display can be blacked out. Swell.

Added to *that*, is the fact that navigating the basic controls (like Bass, Treble, Fade, etc.,) is like trying to find your way through a maze blindfolded. Actually, since the display is unreadable, this isn't far at all from the actual fact.

So I'm now trying to decide what to replace it with.

Another big, big negative - which I'm flat-out amazed to see continually trumpeted as something good - is the fact that Alpine (and a few other companies,) have inexplicably built parametric equalizers into their units rather than graphic equalizers. This is a positive?!?
Look, when I'm tooling down the freeway and something in my sound isn't right, I don't want to be dinking around with a needlessly complex menu to get to a pitiful selection from four or five center frequencies, then dinking around further in adjusting the bandwidth around that selected frequency, then dinking around yet further in tweaking the bass volume. By the time I've done all that, I'm siamese twins with the 18-wheeler that used to be outside my right rear quarterpanel. And I still don't have the sound balance I want.

With a graphic eq I can make a simple twist of a knob at a set frequency and either boost or cut that frequency - and I can usually do it without taking my eyes off the road.
Now, I know that terms like "center frequency" and "bandwidth" are just extremely impressive things to be throwing around if you're 14 years old and looking to impress your pals at school, but....I just want to tune in my EQ quickly, simply, and safely. I listen to a wide variety of tunes in a wide variety of styles, time periods, recording qualities and frequency distributions. This means I like to change the EQ on my head unit often. Who the hell was it who decided that putting parametric EQ into car stereos was a good idea - some Madison Avenue ad exec? Yeek.

So far the best example of a HU with a built in 7-band graphic EQ is a Sony, yet I've read a lot about Sonys being crappy equipment. Any other (non-Alpine) suggestions? Blaupunkt ain't lookin' too bad these days....
 

UFO
Unregistered guest
If I can add responses to a couple of the tangential things on this thread:

Anonymous, I may be misunderstanding your intended meaning, but you say that listening to music in a language you don't understand - or don't understand fully - makes you foolish.

I disagree strenuously. When I'm not jammin' to Frank Marino, Rush, UFO, SRV or Kenny Wayne Shepherd, I'm usually listening to Patricia Kaas, a singer you're probably familiar with. I understand little or none of her lyrics (except the ones I've translated,) but rather than making me a "fool," I think that having gotten into her music - also that of Italy's Eros Ramazzotti - has made me a somewhat wiser person. You can learn a great deal about the culture of another country by sampling its art, particularly its music.

As for war, that's a whole can of worms deserving a forum all its own, but let me say this: There is a very specific ethical division of responsibility for innocent casualties of war, and in every case the responsibility for those casualties rests with the one who made war necessary - in this context Hussein, who was not only a butcher of his own people but a significant future threat to neighboring countries as well as the USA. There is an article called "The Justice of War" written by a philosopher (and formidable dart-player) named Patrick Stephens that I consider required reading for anyone who wishes to comment on the ethics of war. One quote that stands out in particular:

"...Justice does more than permit a nation to defend itself, it *demands* that it do so. Allowing the attacks of September 11 to go unpunished, and allowing the threat of future attacks to remain, would be a horrible abdication of the government's responsibility to its citizens. Peace, no less than war, may be unjust. Not only must a nation forbear from an unjust war, it must also forbear from an unjust peace."

I agree fully. [The full article can be read here: http://www.objectivistcenter.org/navigator/articles/nav+pstephens_justice-war.as p - and no, I'm not affilitated with his organization or being paid to say this.]

Ok, off the soapbox.

<***>
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3537
Registered: Dec-03
"One small problem is that the snazzy display is flat-out impossible to read in anything but total darkness."

I use a 9813 in my Jeep and have no problems reading it in any amount of lighting, myself.
To further aid this, the face tilts to adjust to the mounting angle as well.
Your unit I believe, has had some criticism on the display brightness however. I'd have to check on that particular model.

"there are four buttons right next to it that are lit up like Dodger Stadium on game night."

Is it too dark or too bright?

"navigating the basic controls (like Bass, Treble, Fade, etc.,) is like trying to find your way through a maze blindfolded."

Alpine's are very simple to maneuver to me. You push the rotary dial to select what you want to change (sub level, fade, balance, etc) then turn the rotary dial to alter the setting. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

"Alpine (and a few other companies,) have... parametric equalizers in their units rather than graphic equalizers. This is a positive?!?"

yes. very much so. a parametric EQ is far more flexible than a "graphic" EQ. a parametric allows adjustment of not only cut and boost, but setting of the specific frequencies at which you cut or boost, and adjustment of the Q factor. On a graphic EQ, your frequencies and Q are both fixed points. Remember, any equalizing adds problems with both time and phase correction not to mention adding coloration to the sound. Ideally, the EQ should be set once and not touched after that. The purpose of a parametric EQ isn't for you to monkey with all the time. It's to compensate for the shortcomings of the car's environment, and/or lacking performance of your system. Once a proper sound curve is set, the EQ should be left alone.
That's what separates a parametric or 1/3 octave EQ from your run of the mill graphic EQ. They serve different purposes.

" I like to change the EQ on my head unit often."

See above. horses for courses. you may want to consider a separate line-level slider-style graphic EQ like sony's XE-90 Mk II or the Alpine 3321. That's what you're after regardless of head unit choice.

"Now, I know that terms like "center frequency" and "bandwidth" are just extremely impressive things to be throwing around if you're 14 years old and looking to impress your pals at school"

All I'll do here is quote a proverb that seems appropriate.
"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth, and remove all doubt."

"when I'm tooling down the freeway and something in my sound isn't right, I don't want to be dinking around with a needlessly complex menu"

Every unit I can think of off hand with a built-in digital EQ has user defined preset curves. Usually at least 4 of them. These are to avoid the above described situation.

That out of the way, if you want a new more simple head unit, look at teh Alpine CDA-7990 F#1status (VERY simple, and hands down probably the best SQ head unit money can buy for a car. Burr Brown 24-bit DACs, optical outputs, etc. Amazing unit)
If that's out of your league, look at Eclipse's units. The middle range units are affordable, have fantastic performance, and are very simply laid out. They are also built like a tank and will last you for years to come.
Eclipse also has external signal processors you may want to consider like an EQ that are matched to their other products.
 

Anonymous
 
It's time to turn back to write to this thread that I have founded some time ago.


To UFO: «Anonymous, I may be misunderstanding your intended meaning, but you say that listening to music in a language you don't understand - or don't understand fully - makes you foolish.»

Yes, you didn't understand the intended meaning of «So many people that don't understand one word of english but like listenning to music written in that language.»
I'm referring to the fact that much people don't differ the quality of the music that they are listenning. They don't care about if it is a Backstreet Boys song or an Allanis Morisette song (great voice she has, I prefer her songs than Backstreet Boys and other bands of the same kind ones). SOME people only care about the fact that if it is an english song then it must be a great song! I'm not criticizing Backstreet Boys' songs. I don't appreciate their songs but I respect those who enjoy their music. opinions may vary from individual to individual and must be respected. Maybe that the people that have written to this thread also don't like Allanis Morisette songs. In fact was just an example, maybe a poor one, but was the first that have occurred to my mind. I have no time to spend thinking at examples to give to you. I'm very busy with other more enjoyable things than have a discussion in this thread.

About the war I must agree with Glasswolf when he have said that terrorism it isn't also a good thing. O.k we are still in the opinions department...

Returning to UFO and his Alpine head unit. I also agree with Glasswolf when he says that a parametric equaliser is better by far than a graphic equalizer. Freedom of choice is what parametric equalizers are about: several possibilities are available to improve the sound that your ears will be able to hear - by this way your vehicle may not be very good in therms of acoustical quality or you may not have the right system but the situation can be improved by adjusting your parametric eq to what adjustments make the music sound better to your ears.

By the way Blaupunkt has a new line of head units (2004 models) and the state-of-art is Bremen MP 74 (Skyline). Its new features? Check this out:
- 27 band/four chanells parametric equalizer (108 band - total) self adjustable by microphone and with pc-conection to improved featuresand future upgrades
- new design, o.k. you may also don't like this one but it is a new one.
- DNC - digital noise covering. It «masks» the external road noise that may disturb the music that you are listenning to.

Several specialized magazines like Auto-Hifi distinguish this Blaupunkt as the best head unit on the market today due to its inovation of the new equalizer with pc-conection and sound quality. (I think that I know what you will say: «we are more intended in car audio that those magazines» or something like «no matter what you say our head units are still better than Blaupunkt» or «a five band equalizer is still very good»). For me, it's o.k. those last two ones because I respect your opinions, but you must respect mines, too. However if a five band equalizer or a thirteen band eq is good, a twenty-seven equalizer gives you more endless possibilities of sound adjustment. the article of auto-hifi can be downloaded here at http://www.blaupunkt.de/download/autohifi_Seiten_alle.pdf
To a full list of features and as the Blaupunkt USA site is very poor in terms of model information here is a list copied from the german site http://www.blaupunkt.de (try understand - as someone have said «we should learn about the cultures of other cuntries»):

Features:

UKW, MW, LW, KW
TwinCeiver mit DDA (DigitalDirectionalAntenna)
TIM (Traffic Memo)
Radiotext
42 Speicherplatze
Aktualisierte Senderliste
Wiedergabe von Audio-CD/CD-ROM
CD-RW-kompatibel
CD Mix
CD-Text
DMS (CD-Wechsler-Steuerung)
Wiedergabe MP3 von CD-ROM und CD-RW
-
Unterstützung variabler Bitraten (8-320 Kbit)
Komfortables MP3-Browsing
4 x 26 W Sinusleistung
4 x 50 W Max. Power
DSA Max (DigitalSoundAdjustment): Digitaler selbsteinmessender Equalizer mit 4 Kanalen / 27 Bandern
DNC (Autom. Fahrgerauschmaskierung)
4-Kanal Preamp-Out (5 V), vergoldet
Sub-Out
Center-Out (regelbar)
DualZone Audio
Elektrisches Flip Release Panel
Display-Out (über opt. Interface)
variable Turn-On-Message
Aux-Naming
TMC-Out UKW
Vorbereitet für Telefon-/Navigation-Sprachausgabe
Full Graphic DOT-Display
Displayfarbe VarioColour (4096 Farben)
Nachtdesign VarioColour (16 Farben)
Geratefront silber-metallic
Scheibenantenne im Lieferumfang
Lenkrad-Fernbedienung RC 10 (Sonderzubehor)
IR-Fernbedienung RC 10 H (Sonderzubehor)
Specials


In no more than three days I will be called several times a fool guy, that the chinese are better versed in english that I am,that I'm simply stupid because I have written an message longer than any of the others, that your Alpines F1 status and Pioneer Premier are by far the best head units of the world (they maybe very good but their strong reputation is the main reason to good sells) In fact you may think that I don't like Sony products but in fact this isn't 100 % true - they are great in terms of inovation and I like that in the Sony mark - but the Sony car audio nowadays is very poor and most good quality Sony home products nowadays are extremely highly priced to the Quality/Price/Features relation. Sony are not alone in this department - Pioneer is another example in some of their products.
Speaking about cars of some european HIGHLY REPUTATED constructers - Mercedes and BMW - have the same problem. That's because I prefer Audi (Volkswagen group) or japanese cars like Honda and Toyota, over Mercedes and BMW ones. It's true that Audi hasn't the best money invested/equipment relation but Audi cars have a more straightforward design and are as good in therms of construction quality as Mercedes and BMW. Anyway I like Mercedes and BMW because they sell so many cars per year to people of several countries (USA included - Some are even manufactured in the USA but with German technology). to much people it's more important the status that a mercedes and a bmw gives to you, and so the more conservative the design is the better - you like to be the men of the money, maybe also you want to be cool and have an expensive car (Altough, I must say that BMW has been improved the design in the last years to a more stylish look).


 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3559
Registered: Dec-03
the Chinese have to be well-versed in English. They have to be able to read all of the classified documents they keep stealing from the US.
 

UFO
Unregistered guest
Jeez, aren't you all glad I didn't "go into detail"? D'OH!

Sorreeeee.... 8^/

<***>
 

UFO
Unregistered guest
GlassWolf, I don't have time to go into detail on all of your responses ("YAAAY!" says the crowd,) but just a couple of points:

First, my reference to HS kids wasn't intended as a slam on you at all - I was referring to the mentalities at car audio companies who insist on complexity worship for complexity's sake, and on designing these Excitingly Chunky, motorized, neon-festooned wonders that sit in the middle of our dashboards and, after the initial month or so of "wow, that's new", serve no purpose except flagging down any passing ethics-devoid car stereo thief.

As for parametric vs. graphic EQ, I concede there's a huge learning curve I haven't done yet because I have little or no experience with the former. But having said that, the Alpine 9827's parametric EQ has only four or five (I forget) Center Frequencies from which to choose in either the bass or treble. Granted, the Bandwidth adjustment allows you to cover some of the frequencies in between to a degree, but you still have, in effect, nothing more than a five-band equalizer. Ok, ten band. Give me a unit that has user-customizable frequencies (i.e., you type in a given five numerical frequencies of your choice and hit "enter" or something, and those become your personally-designated frequency bands,) and I'll be impressed.

As for setting it once then leaving it, because it's only to compensate for sonic conditions particular to your car and therefore static: Haven't you ever had the experience of playing one disc that has perfect sound balance, then punching in another in which everything is out of whack? Every audio disc out there is mixed in a unique way, therefore every single one has its own EQ characteristics. Granted, most fall within acceptable ranges of similarity as to not require adjustment of playing equipment, but many do not. I do not like the idea of "one size fits all" in any context, particularly not something as important to me as music.
One of my favorite discs is "Time is the Enemy" by Jonas Hellborg, the late Shawn Lane and drummer Jeff Sipe. It has a markedly heavier bass presence that demands compensation. I also like listening to classical jazz - and Reinhardt/Grappelli recordings, or Louis Armstrong, etc., done from the late 20s through the 40s, have sound balances utterly alien to the high-tech stuff coming out today, or anytime since the invention of the transistor, for that matter. This means: I want to be able to alter the EQ of my head unit at will, whenever I decide it needs to be done - which in my case is, as I've said, often.

The best of all worlds is something that (correct me if I'm wrong,) hasn't been invented yet: A combination of the two types - a unit where you can select the adjustable frequencies, then adjust them at will like a graphic EQ. My instant bias is that I hate the idea of replacing knobs with digitized text menues, at least in the auto context. Any menu requires that you look at it; knobs can be reached and adjusted by purely tactile means. Given the complexity of contemporary car audio, having knobs for everything would result in a dashboard similar to that of a 747 - which is why I'm a big advocate of simplicity. At least, dear car audio manufacturers, produce some units with full technical specs but stripped-down features. The best-sounding car stereo I ever had was a cheapo under-dash Sanyo cassette player, an even more cheapo 5-band graphic EQ/booster (I think made by "Royal Sound",) and a pair of EPI M120B 2-way home speakers laid on their backs in the hatch of my 1973 Plymouth Duster. Call me retro or just a crank, but I think car audio design has gone significantly downhill in the last 25 years.

I'm almost positive that I'd have a better opinion of the whole thing if I were actually able to see what I'm doing - and trust me, to say that the 9827's display is impossible to read in anything but pitch darkness is **no exaggeration**! If you cup your hand around it you can just make out an extremely dim line of the larger text, and just barely. Needless to say, this is not a scenario conducive to safe driving. How Alpine allowed this design to get beyond test phase is beyond comprehension.

I thank you for the suggestions you made for other units - this is going to be a lengthy research project. I'm still seeking input on Sonys - are the rumors of their being crap justified by fact? Right now the CRX-F5705x is a big leader in my replacement contest. Ironically enough, it doesn't have *any* knobs, only button controls - but Sony makes a wired remote with knobs that looks alot like a wiper control arm-mounted cruise control.

Anon's comments on the new Bremen MP74 sounds intriguing, but it also sounds well outside of my price range, which would be $300 max, +/- $30.

Ok, gotta go - my girlfriend's gonna have my ar se for this.....
Please advise on Sonys, or let me know where I can go for some professional reviews of them.

Thanx,

<***>
 

Silver Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 588
Registered: May-04
"Haven't you ever had the experience of playing one disc that has perfect sound balance, then punching in another in which everything is out of whack? Every audio disc out there is mixed in a unique way, therefore every single one has its own EQ characteristics."
Define a perfect sound balance. Those CD's are mixed differently for a reason, it's like me changing my tone of voice when I'm mad, it makes a statement and lets others know how I feel, same with the mixing of a CD, whether the sound is hard and edgy, or soft and balanced, they mix it for the purpose of giving the music a mood. The purpose of a Parametric is to fix sonic characteristics of a car, basically set it and forget it. EVERY car has resonant frequencies, and every application has peaks and dips, regardless of installation or components. A true SQ application listens to music the way it's intended to sound, not with your own personal preferences, and once you become content with your setting you'll appreciate the music that much more. It just grows on you. No music is "perfectly balanced", because if it was, it wouldn't be music. The fact that music has highs and lows and dips and peaks is what classifies it as music instead of a test tone. Everyone has preferences, though, and unlike myself a lot of people don't like a flat, even sound as they think it sounds boring. A lot of your feeling of necessity to set the EQ for each CD may be caused by resonances and peaks due to your car's sonic characteristics, and that certain CD's bring that out. It could also be caused by poor component mounting locations or lackluster speakers. Some factory locations plain out suck, and some speakers with poor design have bad off-axis performance and bad frequency response. If you're that intent on it, there are plenty of dash mount EQ's that you can get, and they all have rotary knobs for you to twist and turn all day long to your liking :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3575
Registered: Dec-03
"First, my reference to HS kids wasn't intended as a slam on you at all - I was referring to the mentalities at car audio companies who insist on complexity worship for complexity's sake, and on designing these Excitingly Chunky, motorized, neon-festooned wonders that sit in the middle of our dashboards and, after the initial month or so of "wow, that's new", serve no purpose except flagging down any passing ethics-devoid car stereo thief."

you just described the entire import tuner market in a nutshell haha did you know it's a three BILLION dollar a year industry for car mods on imports now? gah.
anyway yeah. I've always believed in teh "KISS" principle.

"Every audio disc out there is mixed in a unique way, therefore every single one has its own EQ characteristics."

yeah, mixing and mastering is a major part of a CD, and many are done quite poorly, but ideally, the car should simulate a live environment, and EQ curves are set using pink noise which I'm sure you're familiar with. Based on that, any coloration in the curve would be introduced not by the system, but by the poor CD mastering.
This is one reason most of my CDs are higher quality recordings, like MFSL discs.

" This means: I want to be able to alter the EQ of my head unit at will, whenever I decide it needs to be done - which in my case is, as I've said, often."

well, like I said, horses for courses. a parametric (ex, alpine 3401 and 3402) or 1/3 octave EQ (ex., Audiocontrol EQT) is designed to compensate for coloration using pink noise and a tone generator, and adjusted and left alone with an RTA. a graphic EQ or a preamp is what you're after, and those are best found as a separate unit, such as the alpine 3321, 3331, 3339, Orion 300PSW, and other similar products by Kicker, Audiocontrol, etc. take a look at the Orion 300psw. it's got master volume, fader, sub level and XP control, and 3 bands of EQ where you choose the exact frequency and cut or boost up to 12dB.

"A combination of the two types - a unit where you can select the adjustable frequencies, then adjust them at will like a graphic EQ."

Orion and Zapco among others have such a unit in preamp form. they tend to use knobs as opposed to sliders. like the old school facroty analog car radios with a rear and front knob.. rear sets the frequency band, front sets cut/boost.
They're not cheap, but they usually include a line driver as well as any good preamp does.

regarding Sony.. they are the worst car audio company on earth. seriously. my shop used to be a sony dealer, and we had to drop them totally due to number of defective returns, and even as an authorized repair center, we'd wait 6 months or more for parts. it was insane. they have about a 50% failure rate within the first 12 months.. total crap. I've worked in the car audio industry since the late 80s, and they've always had problems, but they've gotten worse as time goes on.

speaking of that old Duster, you'd appreciate my upcoming project.
I'm looking at setting up an old 66 Charger.
eclipse CD unit, orion preamp (with knobs!) good front stage, subs, 3 amps, and a parametric EQ that's set via notebook PC (all digital) so there are no buttons or knobs, but it's in the trunk. set once to adjust for the environment, then left alone. not an "EQ" in the sense you're thinking.
anyway overall a simple layout.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 598
Registered: May-04
Which EQ is that, glass? Just curious as I may be interested in getting one.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3583
Registered: Dec-03
Orion DEQ30 or Concept 97.2
same thing.. the Concept model has a pewter finish instead of black, and cost a bit more. exact same guts.
30+30 band stereo 1/3 octave EQ.
I see them all over eBay, and cheaper than going with a pair of EQTs.
Original MSRP on that unit was $1700
 

UFO
Unregistered guest
[A bit of a time gap, but back with more...]
Jonathan said "Define a perfect sound balance" - What I meant by "perfect" is: it's just the way I want it to be. In other words, "This car is my domain and I am King" - hahaha 8^D

The Hellborg/Lane/Sipe example is a great illustration of this because "Time is the Enemy" is notorious for heavy bass in the mix. "Temporal Analogues of Paradise," released a year earlier with the same lineup, also recorded live and if I'm not mistaken from some of the same venues, has no noticeable bass dominance. It's a quirk of that particular recording and playing "Time" at the same settings as "Analogues" will send your woofers into overload within the first few bars of track one.
There are dozens of other examples of this type of thing - most not as bad, but still. There are countless cases where, on switching from one disc to another, you get a particular instrument that's more prominent, to the point where it overloads the speakers even with volume set to the same level as the previous disc.
Frankly I'm surprised this is even considered an unusual desire. I'm a purist in not wanting distortion or speed/pitch variations (which was sometimes a problem in the cassette days,) obviously, but not a purist to the extent where I'll just meekly accept upper midrange drowned out by booming bass, or a mix that sounds shallow because the bass is weak, etc., just because "That's the way it was intended to sound." In short, I'm one of these nutters for whom it isn't uncommon to be changing EQ from song to song on the same disc(!)

GlassWolf mentions MFSL discs, and though I've got a couple of those, most of what I listen to is so obscure it can be difficult to find on CD to begin with, let alone a Mobile Fidelity audiophile version, so that's not really a solution.

As for the EQ curve presets offered on many models, there you end up with the same problem: you're having to accept the arbitrary choices prescribed by someone else, in this case the HU's engineers. If there are models with presets that you can customize to your own liking, I'll be there like the proverbial bear to honey.
In a fit of naivete I now look back on with astonishment, I once thought that the feature described as "EQ Source Memory" would allow you to set the EQ for each disc you played, and the unit would store those settings and apply them to that disc the next time you played it....!
Hey - it could happen.

Anyhow, the point: Even after letting the noise generators, microphones and RTAs do their thing and adjust the unit optimally for the sound characteristics of my car, I'll still want to be able to adjust the EQ to suit my own taste from disc to disc.

The research continues.

<***>
 

UFO
Unregistered guest
Ok, it's oh-dark-hundred, I'm working the vampire shift, and there's a lengthy gap in my test program - so I'm going to blab some more...

It's ironic, but with the swift demise of Sony from further consideration, the prohibitive ugliness of Eclipses - which I'd be happy to put up with but for the fact that the faceplates aren't removable (whose bright idea was *that*?) -and some extensive multi-unit comparison, the unit I'm actually about 95% sold on turns out to be the one at the top of this thread, the Blaupunkt Los Angeles MP72. By the way, does anyone know what the difference is, if any, between the designations MP72 and MP74? I see both behind the "Los Angeles" model name in various places, but it appears the MP74 is either brand-new or available only in Europe.

It's too bad Eclipse bungled so horribly on the no-brainer of faceplate removal (not to mention aesthetics.) I mentioned this faceplate anomaly to someone else, who quickly pointed out that if power is removed from Eclipses, they won't work again without an electronic key. Well, fine, but that's not the point. A $350 stereo is readily replaced, particularly if your insurance covers it - but how much is it to repair a trashed dashboard that some gutter rat has destroyed in the process of discovering he's stolen something that won't work? Pyrrhic victory, that. The trick is to make it visibly obvious that only half the unit is there - before the thief breaks in in the first place.

Anyway, earlier today I downloaded the MP72 operator's manual in PDF and read through it, and it looks like it's got exactly what I was talking about earlier: All of the features of my doomed Alpine and more, obviously, (excepting WMA capability which I hadn't planned on using anyway,) but its design layout is far simpler and more intuitive than Alpine's labyrinth. You hit a Mode button at the bottom, then the six other buttons surrounding the display are used to access everything else, with most navigation by tactile means (i.e., selecting one of six buttons,) rather than watching the display while twiddling a single knob. It ain't ideal but it's a step in the right direction, IMO.

In other words, there aren't forty functions controlled by a single knob - praise the Lord & pop the clutch!

Another big plus is yet another simple innovation that other manufacturers (Sony excepted) don't seem to want to bother with: Producing a fixed-location remote, in Blaupunkt's case one that straps right onto the steering wheel. Excellent.

Something else I like lots - and which I find a little astonishing - is the fact that the faceplate is made out of metal(!), not plastic. And it's removable. As for Blaupunkt's looks, I actually think this model (LA MP72) is nicely understated, and a refreshing contrast to the aesthetic juvenility of Alpine or the 'horribly-misplaced coin-op wash machine' look of Eclipses.

I'm still not happy with the idea of having to learn how to go from graphic to parametric EQ, but I seem to be a dinosaur in that respect. The EQ options and flexibility in the Los Angeles unit should, if not actually keep me happy, at least mitigate the angst, and maybe help me to prevent the MB Quarts from turning into smoking lumps of polycarboniferous sludge when Jonas (or Geddy or Billy or TLev) slams on his low E string...

A depressing downside is that I'm almost certainly going to have to spring for a Sub eventually, 'cause PCE216s or not, I'm just not getting the kind of bass punch I'm used to unless I drive the Quarts dangerously close to overload. This in turn means I'll have to get a separate sub amp, because my PPI 4125 is tied up pushing the four 6.5 MB Quarts.

Anybody out there know if Subs with built-in amps are any good? Which subs are tight enough for heavy 70s-80s rock rather than the indistinct boominess of cRap? Which of those would be a good value?

One last random note: I put one pair each of MB Quart PCE-216s in the front door panels and rear side panels of my 2002 Civic Si - 'left out the Dynamatting because Circuit City wanted way too much to put it in - and I've noticed something a little weird. The rear speakers are what I'd expect speakers of this caliber to sound like, but the front ones sound tinnier than Honda stock speakers. Either I've already blown them out, which though undesirable would be acceptable, or the unnerving alternative: the CC guy who installed the system stole my front pair and installed a pair of cheapos in their place.
This nags and haunts me to no end, so it looks like I've gotta take my doors apart - plus the fact that they inadvertently disconnected the inside latch link for the passenger door... 8^|

Has anyone ever caught their installer pulling a swindle, or am I just being paranoid?

Ok, pardon the latest book - I will shut up *now*.

<***>

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

"Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
...It is not as late as you think. It is merely early - in the age of the rebirth of individualism."
- Ayn Rand

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
 

Anonymous
 
UFO, maybe that I can speak about the two models that you listed (Blaupunkt los angeles mp72 vs mp74). As you know I got the "los angeles mp 72".

what are the differences?

- well, to start, the mp 72 was engineered in 2002 to be sold in that year and also in 2003. the mp 74 was engineered in the present year and so is available to be sold since five months ago (at least in Europe). you may ask «will be it available in America?» - I guess that the answer is yes and very soon.

-the design..., well I'm a bit tired of speaking about this topic, because everyone have his own taste. I respect each one taste. however, I can say that the mp 74 have a display that remember slightly the display of the Sony MP-70 head unit but with a better resolution.

- the features are quite similar but the la mp 74 has one new: as the upper line model bremen mp 74 also has pc-connection. this inovation came to be possible future upgrades in software and it also can be used, to help adjusting the parametric equalizer watching a graphical curve that shows the effect of the sound adjustment on screen. This program is more straightfoward in the bremen mp 74 case. blaupunnkt says that,in near future,will be added new ways of improve sound quality of the car environment using the smart pc-connection, by adjusting the parametric equalizer accordingly to the speakers used and other equipment - subwoofer, amplifier. I don't know how they will match the equalizer with the different brands and types of speakers, amplifiers, etc.,... , but anyway the pc-connection is a step forward.

similarities between the two models:

- the six buttons around the screen
- the five band parametric equalizer
- the motorized face plate
- the cd text feature
- the cd r/rw compatible
- the tuner
- the auto shut off functions - if you like to hear music when the ignition is at «off» this function has a timer that turns off the head unit past one hour to prevent battery discharge. this function is always enabled and it is, of course, automatically disabled when you switch on the ignition.
- the supplied microphone that can self adjust the five band parametric equalizer.
- the traditional bass/treble/Balance/fader controls.
- the removable faceplate
- the fast and quiet track access with red book cd/cd-r/cd-rw audio discs and with MP 3 cd-r/cd-rw discs.
- the internal amplifier

 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3855
Registered: Dec-03
just to clarify a few things, my point still stands that a parametric or 1/3 octave EQ serves a completely different purpose from a graphic or spectrum "slider" EQ in the dash. What you're looking for is a separate EQ that mounts in dash below the head unit. This is the best you're going to find to serve your purpose and it will be far better than anything you'll find built into any CD player for ease of adjustment and sound quality both.

in adition, aesthetics are personal opinion. I personally think blaupunkt makes by far teh fugliest head units I've ever seen.

As for Eclipse's security precautions I find them far superior to a pull-out deck or a removable face plate because quite frankly, everybody tends to either get tired of taking out the face and they just leave it in (purpose defeated) or they throw it in the glove box or under the seat. (yeah that works.. uh huh) which means all a thief has to do is steal the main unit anyway and wait till he finds a matching face to snatch. (easily done. trust me.)
Next problem, if you do remove the face, it gets scratched up in no time, since most of teh face plate cases suck eggs, and nobody uses those either as it's more crap to cart around. Not a terrific idea.

Eclipse makes it simple. If you steal the head unit and you don't have the security key CD, you're out of luck. Period. You can't do anything to bypass this, and Eclipse won't help you either without being the registered owner of the unit. The problem with any removable face unit is the same. It still tells everybody you have a nice system at a glance.
If you want real stealthy systems, you either need a retracting head unit with a blank plate that covers it (kits are made for this given the dash space) or a unit like JVC's el kameleon that retracts teh unit into a flat stealth plate to match the dash (not ideal but better than an obviously removed plate) or, you need a non factory mounting location out of site, like the glovebox or center console under an arm rest.

I never was hugely fond of removeable faces because I've dealt with enough thieves in my line of work to know what is and isn't effective.

good luck.
 

UFO
Unregistered guest
Hey Glass, the comments again are vastly appreciated. I will give the Eclipses another look. What would you recommend for an add-on graphic EQ beneath the HU? Since a subwoofer is probably inevitable, meaning yet another amp to install, is there an EQ with a handy low-noise sub channel that would serve the purpose, thereby killing two birds with one stone?

Secondly, the Honda Civic Si has a nonsymmetrical insert where this stuff goes - the Circuit City folks had a replacement kit that's identical, except that it's black instead of the original silver. I hate that, 'cause the quasi-metallic dashboard is one of the things I liked most about my car when I bought it. Do you know of any outfit that stocks insert kits that match the original colors, and inserts with over/under slots? I'd hate to have a kluge-type monstrosity further uglifying my dash in order to have an EQ there - I'd rather hang it under dash before I did that, but that's no solution either.

As for removable faceplates, I always throw it in the trunk/hatch - which I suppose is as useless as putting it in the glovebox for any thief with half a brain. And I thought higher-end units had faceplates electronically matched with the deck anyway, making mix & match after the fact impossible? I suppose that would be too logical for manufacturers to think of...

Hasta,

<***>
 

Unregistered guest
I have heard so much about Eclipse, so I decided to take the Pepsi challenge and see which unit would be best for sound quality. I used it in comparison with an Eclipse CD8454 and an Alpine cda-7998. For all the tools of the cd8454 I couldn't come to love the one dimensional loose slapping bass.

I used the same crossover settings and time alignment to get the cda-7998 ( published website stat's at .008% THD at 1 kHz, kind of misleading but it sounded like .008 at all frequencies) to perform and the bass was rich and warm with stunning detail.

The only thing the cd8454 had going for it was the voice detail, the highs seemed to crack at high volumes and the bass flattened to cone slapping sounds.

Before you think of asking, I had a McIntosh MCC404M with 8v in all of the power range at .005% Total Harmonic Distortion THD. You know if you look closely the cd8454 will hide its specification on its owner's manual at thd .006% and on the website it will publish at .01%.

There is something to be said for honest disclosure and THD percentages; yes your ear can only hear audible only above .05% THD but your inner ear reverberating can feel 20,000+KHZ - 100,000 kHz like what a violin gives off at 80,000 kHz, which can only be reproduced on amplifiers/source head units with .005% and below, distortion rates.

It's no wonder if you look at McIntosh amplifiers, Denon cd player dct-z1, Nakamichi cd player cd-700II, Some Alpine units, they spend all their time making sure they have .005% or below distortion.

I would count eclipse out of the high end and leave alpine at the low cost budget-breaker-deal, not eclipse. Please some one take the Pepsi challenge and use the same setup I did and hear the sound quality differences!

Eclipse was once good, now they just really play catch up to other units, Sirius never was delivered, iserve is a joke you can't even use the stored pink noise data from the units microphone equalizer setting on the website. A user can just use the same functions on the unit, but in an easier graphical interface via the eclipse website, there is no data corrected RTA curves set for acoustics' personalized to your interior. Like anticipated and foretold. It's going to take time for eclipse to shine in user control and innovative low THD's, s/n and channel separation but, I'm not standing on the curb holding my breath, for next to never. Anyways, do the homework; check your stat's then take the test yourself... Don't talk about it, be about it! Please post your comments, about serious analytical critiques of audio, not belief statements, please base your arguments on logos, no pathos please.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3958
Registered: Dec-03
UFO:
first point, there are plenty out. Alpine has made several with what you want including the 3331, 3332, 3339, and a number of others. I'm not sure what their current model is at the moment.
second point, get the black ABS kit and have it painted to match the dash. Any decent autobody or custom shop should be able to do that using automotive or special plastics paints that won't flake or chip.
third point, it's not a matter of being logical really but a matter of cost. mass produced products would all have to be individually set to match each other with your idea. Similar to matching alarm systems to remotes. It adds to the cost, and makes things more difficult when repairing units as well. Anyway just some logistics behind why it's not done that way.

as to Purist (I assume that's the word you meant and not the adjective "purest.")
Your inability to set up the Eclipse isn't a reason to misinterpret the results you experienced.
As for THD, it's a pointless spec in reality.
You actually can't hear anything below about TEN percent THD in a car, and maybe ONE percent in a high end home system. Also note that your speakers themselves produce far more distortion than your amps so again it's a moot point.
Alpine's sub pre-outs aren't even 4 volts in reality. They're about 1.8V which is a defect in all of Alpine's units from the last few generations.
As for your theories about hearing anyhting over 20KHz, I hate to tell you, but the car stereo will produce nothing above 20KHz unless it's a harmonic created by a poorly designed system. CD media has a built in filter at 20KHz that's a "brick wall" filter of 24dB/octave. This is something Sony-Philips developed and put into the Redbook CD specs to avoid the "breaking glass" distortion they experienced without the filter.
Radio won't get much about 16-18KHz due to the bandwidth of FM.
What you experienced was simply a poorly tuned system. You don't set EQ and TC features to "match" another company's product.
You set them properly using an RTA.

"I would count eclipse out of the high end and leave alpine at the low cost budget-breaker-deal, not eclipse. Please some one take the Pepsi challenge and use the same setup I did and hear the sound quality differences!"

considering the only Alpine deck that I find to be truly competition grade is three grand, I don't see that as busting anything but my bank account.
I've sold and installed Alpine and Eclipse both since about 1990. I've had plenty of experience with both.
Don't be mislead by "specs" and numbers for products.
I can rattle off plenty of impressive numbers for SNR, TND, and so forth and still hand you a unit that sucks in practical application.
You like McIntosh? Good taste. Take note that their home audio amplifiers that cost $35,000 have a rated THD of 10%. Does that make them inferior amplifiers?

final note.
start your own thread for this nonsense please.
this one is already way too long.
 

Audio-purist Sacramento
Unregistered guest
Do you have a model number to your 35,000 McIntosh amplifier? Unless, are you referencing something made in the 70's, its possible at .10%. As for THD%, it's the ultimate consideration in all amplifiers as error rates. In case you don't know, or don't care to know, an amplifier with .05% distortion makes a mistake 1 of 500 times a sine wave is completed, as for .005% a mistake would occur 1 of 5000 times a sine wave is completed. You don't have to spend your money on an eclipse that is mostly hype, spend your money on an Alpine because the low jitter makes a great difference on S/N, which is also audible. Alpine has lower jitter than, all Eclipse head units. Please don't get me started on Eclipse amplifiers, lets just say they are better suited for subwoofers in D class.

Just because everyone told you eclipse is good, and you heard a handful, its no reason to frustrate unintelligible amounts of time telling us why you think a McIntosh had "10%" distortion... Show me the website, there is no current McIntosh with 10% distortion. You shouldn't buy McIntosh amplifiers from kids on the street.

I assume you know what the Dewey decimal system is, "You like McIntosh? Good taste. Take note that their home audio amplifiers that cost $35,000 have a rated THD of 10%." so I will just guess you meant to say .10% because percentages can only be derived from an integers less than 1. Example .999 or .001 If you need the website here it is www.columbia.k12.mo.us/dre/dewey

Choose your own system but keep in mind every great system boasts low Total Harmonic Distortion THD, high Signal-to-Noise S/N ratio's, with enabled matched D/A converters. Oh the, $3000 Alpine you mentioned has these specifications at www.alpine.com its model number cda-7990

CD Player
# Channel Separation (1kHz): 110.0 dB
# DAC Type: 96kHz/24Bit Sign Magnitude (Burr-Brown K-Grade)
# Dynamic Range (1kHz): 100.0 dB
# Frequency Response: 5-20k ±1 dB
# Number of DACs: 3
# Oversampling: 8X/352.8kHz
# Sampling Rate: 44.1kHz
# Signal-to-Noise (S/N): 120.0 dB
# Total Harmonic Distortion (THD): 0.002%
# Wow & Flutter (%WRMS): B.M.L

But let me guess glasswood, they do that for fun, and people reading this thread should just listen to another eclipse because your bent on your close minded one name brand? Let it go, I challenge all to listen to comparable models and see, which sounds better, like a scientist would or any guy who just loves audio.

Thanks for the gramatical correction, you must have majored in something uncomplicated like English, hard to find a job, I'm sure? Was English your catalyst for pursuing science-based electronics?

Please get your own thread, and let other people have a voice in this conversation, talking cynically masks nothing...
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3969
Registered: Dec-03
MC275 if I recall was the McIntosh amp I was thinking of. It's not a current model, but by no means is it an inferior amplifier, either. Used, the amp sells for around $8k+ at present. I haven't looked recently because I'm not a big tube amp fan, and being a tube amp is the cause for the 10% THD. Yes, ten percent.

I'm well aware of what THD is and how it's measured. I'm an EE, and an MECP Gold certified installer. I also have well over a decade of experience as a professional installer in this field, and as an authorized repair center serviceman for quite a few companies including sony, pioneer premier, jvc, alpine, eclipse, orion, boston acoustics, and PPI just to name a few. That aside, you may not be aware that there are several ways to measure THD, and the number itself is meaningless alone. EIA and the FCC both have different means that are accepted and vary greatly for measuring THD. On top of that, the amp companies nearly never note where that THD comes into play. at what frequencies, and if it's concentrated at specific points or spread out in smaller peaks across the measured range, which makes a tremendous difference. The fact is, you can't just any amplifier based on a single spec like THD. It just doesn't work.
here are a few articles that may help clarify this:
http://www.wickedcases.com/caraudio/amplifiers.html
http://www.wickedcases.com/caraudio/ampspecs.html

"an amplifier with .05% distortion makes a mistake 1 of 500 times a sine wave is completed"

that's for a digital op amp, yes. audio amplifiers are much more complex than a single transistor, and being an analog device, there is no sampling rate, so that statement isn't entirely applicable unless you're strictly speaking of the input stage of a class-D audio amplifier where the input signal is initially sampled before being reconstructed at a higher power at the output stage.

your misinformed assumptions on Eclipse's headunits and amplifiers are simply misinformation and ignorance. Their amplifiers (class AB) are very well designed, using dual toroidal transformers in the power supplies, and MilSpec components throughout. Until you're been inside their amplifiers I'd suggest you not comment on their construction. Again in regards to jitter, neither the alpine or eclipse have measurements in an audible range to anything but an oscilloscope. You're once again basing all of your thoughts on a single specification, and one that once again, isn't relavant in a car that's about 90dBA with road noise before you even turn on the stereo.

" percentages can only be derived from an integers less than 1. Example .999 or .001"
no. I meant ten percent. as in one tenth.
yes the dewey decimal system is for library books. I'm talking math. I have no idea wtf you think you're talking about, because you're making less and less sense as you babble on. I think after this post, I'm done with this thread and this nonsense.

as I noted before you're comparing a $3000 alpine to a $500 eclipse. that's a really fair comparison there, genius. Yes, as I said already the F#1status is a fantastic head unit.. IF you want to spend that much money. It's also very simplistic and lacks a huge portion of the features nearly every other unit offers, such as MP3 support. It's a purist model.

As for my degrees, yes I do hold degrees in Electrical Engineering, and English.
You apparently never made it apst 7th grade, assmonkey.

You miss, are the one you decided to jump into a thread that didn't pertain to you, and interject your unfounded opinions on people. I'm just pointing out that you're wrong, and fairly dumb.

Have a nice day... somewhere else.
 

Audio-purist Sacramento
Unregistered guest
Oh and about your comment.

"As for THD, it's a pointless spec in reality.
You actually can't hear anything below about TEN percent THD in a car, and maybe ONE percent in a high end home system."

This is totally wrong, where do you get your information from? You can't hear below .05% THD but amplifiers must perform at lower levels than head units due to heat build up, after continuous listening levels. Hence the THD slope in 1 hour loses by a factor of 10, its original THD. So, at start all frequencies will be weighted equally at .005% through out the bandwidth. Later in an hour or less (depending on how hot your amplifier gets, and the heat sink dissipation rate= basically if your amplifier gets heated its trouble for your sound quality) at .005% x 10 (d) decrease = .05% THD .

Do you get it now that is why you need such a high performing amplifier, with high quality charistics?

The head unit can usually be saved from heat, because most high quality car CD players have the ability to shut off the internal amplifier. Always a cause of internal distortion, some amplifiers have an internal amp off selection or the unit comes without an internal amplifier altogether.

You should know all of this Glasswolf! Well I'm floored at the advice you give people, you might as well be a two-bit installer at Circuit City or something.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3972
Registered: Dec-03
this is giving me a good laugh anyway.
for one example of the THD audibility, see here:
http://www.bcae1.com/thd.htm

the THD changing after the amp warms up doesn't mean THD stated was measured after the amp was warmed up or not, so you see again, depending on the company, the measurement doesn't tell you enough information by itself.

"Do you get it now that is why you need such a high performing amplifier, with high quality charistics?"

I never said buy a cheap amp. I simply said that the "stated" specs of an amplifier are very misleading, and you should not base your decision on an amp being good or not solely on a single spec like THD. If you'd read ANYTHING I'd linked for you, you'd have at least a basic grasp of why that is. Is the THD measured full spectrum or notch banded? Is it measured sustained or burst? Is it measured at operating temperature or cold? at what load? with a reactive load or a resistive dummy load? Aside from all of these factors, THD is still never represented as a graphed response, but as a simple number for a complex calculation. It just doesn't pan out by itself. ".005%" is meaningless.

"The head unit can usually be saved from heat, because most high quality car CD players have the ability to shut off the internal amplifier. Always a cause of internal distortion, some amplifiers have an internal amp off selection or the unit comes without an internal amplifier altogether."

I never disputed that, nor do I see what bearing it has on this discussion directly unless you're looking at the amplifier in a head unit and not a stand alone amplifier. That wouldn't be the case though if you're talking about a unit with a turned off or non-present amp internally.

"You should know all of this Glasswolf! Well I'm floored at the advice you give people, you might as well be a two-bit installer at Circuit City or something."

Nobody is forcing you to accept my advice or even agree with it. You're welcome to your opinions and ideas, but don't get upset when your misinformation and incorrect "factual" data is pointed out and corrected by someone who knows more than you do on the subject.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings. You're welcome to dislike Eclipse, much the same as I dislike quite a few audio companies.
 

Audio-purist Sacramento
Unregistered guest
You are so predictable, Glasswolf.

You don't know half of what you are discussing it's a pathetic attempt. If you could read with that English degree, I'm sure you would read that I said, "I was comparing the CDA-7998 to the Eclipse CD8454," retard... Read please learn how to read!

Anyways, your comment was " considering the only Alpine deck that I find to be truly competition grade is three grand, I don't see that as busting anything but my bank account."

You are comparing apples to oranges (CDA-7990 to CD8454), what are you talking about my friend? I have been comparing the (cda-7998 $599.00 to the CD8454 $599.99) equally minded models of the two companies.

Hell, if you wanted to get down to it, eclipse doesn't make anything past the CD8053 without an internal amplifier, which are about $699.00. That's the best eclipse gets. Your clueless, buddy? You just made yourself look foolish; by saying you would buy an Alpine given, if it was the top of the line, which is the CDA-7990. DO YOU NOTICE A PATTERN WITH THE SCIENTIC BASED THD, IT'S A RUNNING AVERAGE WHICH EMBODIES THE SMALL COMPRISED ASPECTS YOU MENTIONED. Have you ever heard one or are you speaking of just the specs?

Please about degrees, I have a doctorate in conceptual design errors, with a concentration in high-level microprocessor implementations. Electronic engineer, that's low-level maintenance work. hahahhahha... Whatever, you have some good points but many are misinformation, I can't blame you, it's the education.

I gave the specifications mentioned about the CDA-7990 because you had to talk about it, which clearly illustrates my point on spec's. You made an fool of yourself, live with it.

I'm sorry if I made you angry, we all have flaws right? No worries.

 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3999
Registered: Dec-03
I doubt you're even out of highschool to be honest.
your arguments are ludacris and sophomoric at best.

I'm through debating with you because you're a fool, and in your mind you'll be right in spite of the facts laid out before you.
you asked for proof, I handed it to you, and you ignored it.

case over.
I'm not mad by the way. I'm more saddened by your ignorance between bouts of amusement.

bubye kiddo.
 

Zenguy
Unregistered guest
With all due respect, I know I'm not much in this matter, but I'd like to give a few words.

First I respect Glasswolf because he's been around in here long enough to help a lot of people with their audio equipment.

Audio-Purist : I don't see you registering yourself in here. In fact, you must be one of those supposed educated trolls we keep having now and again. You talk a lot, but you don't register yourself. What, afraid people might know who you are? Hey man, you ain't getting no respect in here.

You wanna know how you can get respect?

Post Number: 3999 <--- That's how.
Registered: Dec-03

Go back to school, go use your dad's broadband account to surf for p*rn or something. To most of us here, you're the geek. :-)

Oh and with that Doctorate of yours, don't you think YOU have better things to do then to bring up arguments such as this? Heh....you must also be single...
 

Audio-purist Sacramento
Unregistered guest
Well, its truly is a sad day. Please, don't get your brother or family members to back you up Glasswolf. Geeze, its pathetic if you mad its ok just argue with me...

I gave you facts glasswolf, you simply choose to ignore the specification on the audio units as if someone from mars made audio and your ears are the ultimate listening analytical experience. Look audio is built on science and technology, not emotions and car audio installers. If that were the case, we would have progressed about as far as the live opera for our listening .

Glasswolf; you keep saying you are not going to say anything further but you keep coming back, why? Do you feel like you need to control ever aspect of the website? I don't see any other registered users here asking you questions, when you're wrong arguing the facts. Look an ego will only get you so far, but leave the rest to scientists.

Zenguy, I can appriciate you wanting to know if i'm single but I don't, do guys. Thanks anyways.

28, 260k annually, women line up to marry me. Don't let your girlfriend see this. Let me guess, zenbuddah you work at circuit city with Glasswolf... laughable... My assets, interesting. My knowledge, priceless...

The both of you honestly go back to school, but this time walk further to a nationally accredited University.


 

Audio-purist Sacramento
Unregistered guest
Well, its truly is a sad day. Please, don't get your brother or family members to back you up Glasswolf. Geeze, its pathetic if you mad its ok just argue with me...

I gave you facts glasswolf, you simply choose to ignore the specification on the audio units as if someone from mars made audio and your ears are the ultimate listening analytical experience. Look audio is built on science and technology, not emotions and car audio installers. If that were the case, we would have progressed about as far as the live opera for our listening .

Glasswolf; you keep saying you are not going to say anything further but you keep coming back, why? Do you feel like you need to control ever aspect of the website? I don't see any other registered users here asking you questions, when you're wrong arguing the facts. Look an ego will only get you so far, but leave the rest to scientists.

Zenguy, I can appriciate you wanting to know if i'm single but I don't, do guys. Thanks anyways.

28, 260k annually, women line up to marry me. Don't let your girlfriend see this. Let me guess, zenbuddah you work at circuit city with Glasswolf... laughable... My assets, interesting. My knowledge, priceless...

The both of you honestly go back to school, but this time walk further to a nationally accredited University.


 

Silver Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 785
Registered: May-04
So you need 260k a year to get a woman? My girlfriend would laugh at you. I've never had a problem getting girls, even in my jobless days. You really must not have a lot going for you. Women line up to marry you? I'll just stick to women lining up to f*ck me, it's cheaper and more fun. Conceptual Design Errors is sooo much better than the rest of us now? If it weren't for the Engineer, you wouldn't have a job. Your electrical knowledge is correct, but it is evident that you've never applied it in a real world application. You apparently don't know the capabilities of the human ear and what is audible to it. There are certain points where you can't hear a difference. The THD of an AB amp is usually rated at the full RMS power because maximum s/n is attained at that point, any point below that generates HIGHER distortion, you should know that. But is it audible? Nope. If you can hear a difference, you're doing a lot better than the other billions of people in the world. This is simple proof about the affects of THD on the sound quality of an amplifier, and your theories never noted that and you probably didn't even consider it. On top of that, a speaker will generate much more distortion than an amplifier as it isn't efficient. Mechanical devices such as that have much more chance of becoming non-linear, on top of the electrical errors that may (and will) occur due to heat. The mass of a speaker and the volume of air it's pushing, plus resonances and general inefficiencies will generate a sound that is not true to the signal coming to it long before an amplifier inefficiencies come into play. Even if you have a degree, quit looking at the tech papers and apply it in the real world. That's where true knowledge comes from, an education only goes so far.
 

Audio-purist Sacramento
Unregistered guest
Ahh... Jonathan, you'll probably always be broke, just thank your girlfriend for not leaving you and call it a day.

Anyways, I can truly say it was entertaining showing our bleak conversations to my colleagues. You audio-idiotic's keep true to yourself, stay in ignorant sweet bliss. It's better for you that way, no need for the bubble to burst, or your head to pop.

Truly the "real world" is a non-static variable, it's nearly impossible to replicate the combination of circumstances, timing, or general acoustics for every situation. Conceptual design is made for many consumer situations not all, of which is commonly accepted in any electronically designed device. Using a particular "real world" situation for design implementation is initially flawed because using the "real world" (tech sheets are a measured product of mathematical standards which test the laws of measurable physics we are all governed by) is an instance, not an average. An example of this might be testing for human ear frequency limits; which dwell between 19.8776 hertz to 20,000.4999 Kilo hertz. Devices enjoy limits lower and higher due to Conceptual design emphasis on many real world physics. If there were no design for loss in target frequencies or target emphasis in general products because of the real world, we would have flawed products. Thus, using skewed data actually inversely affects many (consumers); leaving a minority to enjoy the measured anomalies in a given product. The tech papers you are referring to, keep many of the 99.998% or more consumers in mind because we know what physics are at work.

Yes, Jonathan I am better than you. Get a job, get a degree and help that poor woman of yours, live indelibly proud of whom you are.

***You can only seek the truth; no man can stand higher than reality.***
 

Audio-purist Sacramento
Unregistered guest
Ahh... Jonathan, you'll probably always be broke, just thank your girlfriend for not leaving you and call it a day.

Anyways, I can truly say it was entertaining showing our bleak conversations to my colleagues. You audio-idiotic's keep true to yourself, stay in ignorant sweet bliss. It's better for you that way, no need for the bubble to burst, or your head to pop.

Truly the "real world" is a non-static variable, it's nearly impossible to replicate the combination of circumstances, timing, or general acoustics for every situation. Conceptual design is made for many consumer situations not all, of which is commonly accepted in any electronically designed device. Using a particular "real world" situation for design implementation is initially flawed because using the "real world" (tech sheets are a measured product of mathematical standards which test the laws of measurable physics we are all governed by) is an instance, not an average. An example of this might be testing for human ear frequency limits; which dwell between 19.8776 hertz to 20,000.4999 Kilo hertz. Devices enjoy limits lower and higher due to Conceptual design emphasis on many real world physics. If there were no design for loss in target frequencies or target emphasis in general products because of the real world, we would have flawed products. Thus, using skewed data actually inversely affects many (consumers); leaving a minority to enjoy the measured anomalies in a given product. The tech papers you are referring to, keep many of the 99.998% or more consumers in mind because we know what physics are at work.

Yes, Jonathan I am better than you. Get a job, get a degree and help that poor woman of yours, live indelibly proud of whom you are.

***You can only seek the truth; no man can stand higher than reality.***
 

Audio-purist Sacramento
Unregistered guest
Ahh... Jonathan, you'll probably always be broke, just thank your girlfriend for not leaving you and call it a day.

Anyways, I can truly say it was entertaining showing our bleak conversations to my colleagues. You audio-idiotic's keep true to yourself, stay in ignorant sweet bliss. It's better for you that way, no need for the bubble to burst, or your head to pop.

Truly the "real world" is a non-static variable, it's nearly impossible to replicate the combination of circumstances, timing, or general acoustics for every situation. Conceptual design is made for many consumer situations not all, of which is commonly accepted in any electronically designed device. Using a particular "real world" situation for design implementation is initially flawed because using the "real world" (tech sheets are a measured product of mathematical standards which test the laws of measurable physics we are all governed by) is an instance, not an average. An example of this might be testing for human ear frequency limits; which dwell between 19.8776 hertz to 20,000.4999 Kilo hertz. Devices enjoy limits lower and higher due to Conceptual design emphasis on many real world physics. If there were no design for loss in target frequencies or target emphasis in general products because of the real world, we would have flawed products. Thus, using skewed data actually inversely affects many (consumers); leaving a minority to enjoy the measured anomalies in a given product. The tech papers you are referring to, keep many of the 99.998% or more consumers in mind because we know what physics are at work.

Yes, Jonathan I am better than you. Get a job, get a degree and help that poor woman of yours, live indelibly proud of whom you are.

***You can only seek the truth; no man can stand higher than reality.***
 

Bronze Member
Username: Demigod33

Post Number: 98
Registered: Jun-04
lol

Audio-purist Sacramento is a dumb a$$

 

Silver Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 829
Registered: May-04
Truthfully, there is no point of arguing with someone with the maturity of a 12 year old. You would expect a true professional to act as an adult and have a debate on decent terms rather than name calling to someone he has absolutely no idea about. I have no desire to debate with someone that has his head stuck so far up his a$$ that he doesn't have an open mind. He's been given factual evidence by Glasswolf and chose to ignore it. Like I said above, experience is what makes you professional, going to school for a truly pointless career such as his really doesn't make him an expert about any of this, hence his hesitation to register and try to help anyone. Sorry if you were upset by the fact that your opinion isn't respected, or even acknowledged for that matter. I have no argument that the ideal amplifier would have no distortion, as well as the ideal speaker, and both would have perfect linearity, but you're ignoring the true fact that after a certain point it won't be discernable, especially with a miniscule difference in distortion from a head unit like the point you're trying to argue. Conceptual design is overachieving, yes, but the difference between the two head units you're comparing is not noticeable between the specs you've given, it's more of an issue of linearity and processing than distortion. Keep in mind that your opinion won't be everyone elses. The sound quality in a system is affected by linearity more so than distortion, since after so far you can't tell a difference. You may be better at sucking dick better than I am, as well as your supposed colleagues, but as far as audio is concerned it is apparent that your experience is lacking. Yes I have a job, and a degree in both Industrial Systems Technology and in Electrical Engineering from Georgia Tech (just so you know the accredited institution), and a girlfriend who isn't trying to take a salary that I lied about, and I'm very happy with life as I don't have to try to pick myself up by bragging on the internet. I am the Head of Maintenance and Electronic Personnel at Pliant Corporation, which includes all engineering and computer programming, and make $150k in a state where the cost of living is less than half of what it takes in California. I can (and have) built a 4000 sq ft house on 2-3 acres of land for 200,000, what can you get in California for that? A trailer? I also don't have to live in a state full of fagg*ts such as yourself, so I'm grateful.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 830
Registered: May-04
By the way, I'm done with this thread as it is already too long and there is no point arguing with an insolent person such as yourself, so even if you do reply I'm not going to read it. Just for future reference. If you want to truly make an impression on anybody on a forum, you may want to consider doing so in a more mature fashion than the one you've already chosen.
 

Blowed Punk
Unregistered guest
Well to wrap things up....just so we won't go out of topic....Blaupunkt still suks... :-)

End of thread.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Xgrizzlyx

Post Number: 25
Registered: Jul-04
The only thing good i got out of wsting my time looking this post over is Glasswolf's web site. and a peek at his 66 charger :-) wounderful car :D

My father has a 70 Roadrunner, I hope to talk him in to giving to me :-).

And for bragging hehe i got 2004 gmc 1500 ext cab and it gets 15 miles to the gallon but don't care, a beatiful wife and 2 beatiful wounderful children.

O as for a head unit I have a Denon headunit that is 7 years old :p in a 1999 tracker.
 

Anonymous
 
Time to return to my own thread. «Blowed punk» says that Blaupunkt sucks.
If I want I would say that «VDO DAYTON» sucks, most «Kenwood» sucks (Kenwood makes head units with not very good but very decent sound quality but their reliability ..., Well it's not almost worse than Sony's head units reliability, as someone as said, it's worse than Sony! I know people that owns both marks and the ones that own kenwood h.u. have been get more problems past warranty time than the ones with Sony head units.), etc.,... - BUT IT'S ONLY OPINIONS!
BLAUPUNKT's head units sucks? Well, yes if you want compare an 1980's cassette player (or even a 1980's cd player) head unit with a modern PIONEER or ALPINE CD player head unit.

BLAUPUNKT has invented head units. (yeah, I kow that PIONEER has launched the first CD-player head unit, but CD technology has not been invented by PIONEER!)

BLAUPUNKT manufactures factory equipments to VW, Audi, Seat, BMW (all german brands), Mitsubishi (till 1997 Mitsubishi has had PHILIPS head units) , Nissan (japanese brands), Hyundai (corean brand), Peugeot (uses BLAUPUNKT in-dash CD changers and CLARION head units)
Alpine manufactures factory equipments to HONDA (but some models have BLAUPUNKT navigation systems). In the past HONDA was powered in car audio by SONY and PIONEER.

BLAUPUNKT is one of the two only brands of head units that have a self-adjustable equaliser with a supplied microphone (PIONEER is the other brand).

Blaupunkt has invented «Keycard» when the only thing that the other brands have to offer to their costumers was heavy (weighty)removable faceplates or code protections.

Blaupunkt has invented RDS that is very useful at least in Europe.

Blaupunt has engineered in this year the first CD (MP-3 compatible) head unit with a built-in 27-band self-adjustable parametric equaliser and PC-connection to easy upgrades and more advanced personal adjustments.

When I choose a new head unit I'm interested in sound quality, useful features and fast access not in show an organic display (OEL) to my fiends and shake the road with the noise produced by the subwoofer powered at high volumes.

I must be honest - the discussion between two engineers (Glasswolf and the other man) about THD is quite interesting..., makes me wonder about what would happen if they were face to face and not chatting through a computer. As I have not sufficient knowledge to speak about THD and its influences in sound quality I will not do it. I only give my opinions if I think that I'm sure what I'm saying is true. Anyhow much people may disagree with my opinions, it's fair as those opinions are not evidences like those shown above in this message. Respect is important. Education - where is it?

It's also very interesting the how in this thread that everyone seems to have to bore others speaking about their «beautiful wifes», honest girlfriends (the oposite of the girlfriends that are only interested in the money of the poor guy) and how that makes their lifes happies.

I'm also happy because I don't need the advices of anyone to choose any of my home or car products. I bought what I think that it is better according to my needs and my mind.



 

limelight
Unregistered guest
BLAUPUNKT man, I think your right. You should choose what is best for you and your right to be happy about it. I think I don't need all these pompus guys here telling me what they think is best. Units these days are made with such similar technology and parts most are going to sound similar.

I have always found that amplifiers and speakers really make the biggest difference in sound.

I wish those guys would stop talking about their women, spelling errors and their sexualll hatreds. I'm with you BLAUPUNKT man, these guys are into an ego thing... It's funny because they don't even know eachother to fight about an ego.
 

blahblah
Unregistered guest
"One small problem is that the snazzy display is flat-out impossible to read in anything but total darkness. I tend to spend inordinate amounts of time in the daylight, unfortunately - and worse, I live in a place where it's sunny lots of the time. This is the kind of engineering boneheadedness that makes you want to break things and kick people."

Yep, I have a Kenwood KDC-MP222 with the same problem. Can't read the display during the day.

Funny, though...the factory head unit didn't have that problem. But I guess when they designed the factory head unit, they were more concerned about "functionality" than "looking cool".

BTW, the KDC-MP222 sounds no better than the factory head unit. The only reason I replaced the factory head unit is that it stopped ejecting CDs. Otherwise, I would have kept it, and it's display that is readable during the day.

Really, I'm convinced that the KDC-MP222 is designed for someone who doesn't get out of bed before 6pm.

Also someone who is illiterate, because it is so SLOW when it scrolls the display. It doesn't take any normal person 5 seconds to read 12 characters. But if that were the case, why doesn't it leave the next 12 characters on the screen for longer than 1 second?

Poor engineering all around. But hey, maybe it's cool when you're still in school.

Me? I've graduated.
 

Anonymous
 
You guys should try - 'faaltu bekaar' HU!!! That is the best fit for all u guys.
 

New member
Username: Pennymary

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-04
Somebody help me! :-( I think I did something really stupid. I wanted to be all cool and do it myself, but I think that was a bad idea. Got the wiring harness all hooked up, but couldn't find any info on the ground wires. So I grounded them both seperately. The deck worked for 15 minutes and then stopped working the unit isn't seeming to get any power at all now. Did I blow it? :-(
 

Unregistered guest
Is it me- or do alot of people in car audio sound more like the company CEO'S than an average enthusiast. I think everyone that is a male has preference when it comes to anything related to electronics, I also believe that sometimes we over look the better of two choices do to preference. It is best to research a company, learn where the product is actualy made, check the reliability and occasionaly jump outside the box and try something new to prove or disprove your theory.
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