Competition Components
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Bronze Member Username: ShouderWisconsin Post Number: 99 Registered: Dec-03 | I'm installing new components this summer. I've done research and come to the conclusion of going with mb quart q's, focal utopia's, dyns, or dls iridium's. So i guess i haven't really narrowed down my choices. Im curious if anyone knows where i could get a frequency chart of each set's linearity. Or experences with any of these sets would also be useful. Thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: Audio_fanaticMukilteo, Wa Post Number: 29 Registered: Jan-05 | All of those are terrific sets, with IMO tha quarts a level under than tha rest. I use tha utopias in my car and i am very happy about them. But u really cant go wrong with any of them, i would suggest lising to as many choices as u can before u purchase a set. I personally havent heard tha dynaudio 360's or n e of them. But from what Jonathan says [ who is much more knowledgable than me] tha dyns tend to be more of a neutral set than tha focals. But i can say that if you were to go with tha utopias u wouldnt be dissapointed. But everyone has a different opinion about those high end components u have mentioned. |
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Silver Member Username: ShouderWisconsin Post Number: 105 Registered: Dec-03 | If i could ask, how much did you pay for the utopias. And where did you find a set. |
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Silver Member Username: ShouderWisconsin Post Number: 106 Registered: Dec-03 | Also, one more question, what are you powering your focals with. Thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: Audio_fanaticMukilteo, Wa Post Number: 32 Registered: Jan-05 | I paid full price for mine, i got them at cartoys [ because of warranty issues, and thank god i did or i would of had to replace 3 sets of them] the price i believe was around 1000 dollars. Now i dont mean to scare u away by sayin that i had to replace three of them, its just that tha amp i was using, kept killing tha crossover. I was using a jl audio 300/2 amp, which is a terrific amp!! But i dont know if its that jl got a bad shipment of those are focal got a bad shipment, they werent just workin ryte for me. So now i use a jl 300/4 amp and dont use tha crossover and sets signals to each of tha tweeters and each of tha speakers, which for me is working out very good. But if you do this there are certain risks and precautions u should take, as explained to me by jonathan. But if you think all you will need is one set of utopias and dont mind a lesser warranty, you can find them online for around 550-700 dollars easy. Onlinecarstereo.com or woofersetc.com have them, im pretty sure they do. Well good luck with your choice and happy hunting |
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Silver Member Username: ShouderWisconsin Post Number: 109 Registered: Dec-03 | Sweet, thanks for the heads up. Though i think i finally made my decision with the quarts. For the first time i noticed that their frequency response is 35-32k hz. Im a little skeptal of that 35hz yet it is rated to go lower than all those other components which are rated at what you would normally figure for a 6.5" mid, around 50-80hz. And since im selling my subs, which won't be replace for a yr or two. These will be nice. Now, however i have to face the question of an amp. Since im getting a set of the 216's for the front and 213's for the rear, i figured just a jl 300/2 for both sets. Problem though, i was taught to overpower my speakers, to prevent clipping and overheating, etc. but the 216's are rated from 90-170w. any thoughts or do you think ill be happy with there performance. Thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: Audio_fanaticMukilteo, Wa Post Number: 33 Registered: Jan-05 | Trust me u wont be underpowerning those speakers using tha jl 300.2 amp, its actually puts out close to 200 watts to each channel, rather than 150. And ya, u will be happy with their performance, those quarts are great speakers, but i would still recommend tha dyn's, utopias, or tha dls. I bet in tha long run you will be much happier if you purchase one of those sets, because most would agree they are a step above than tha quarts u mention. But hey its ur stereo, not mine so do what you want to and do what u think is gonna make u happy. P.S. get tha UTOPIAS!!! |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3183 Registered: May-04 | "For the first time i noticed that their frequency response is 35-32k hz. Im a little skeptal of that 35hz yet it is rated to go lower than all those other components which are rated at what you would normally figure for a 6.5" mid, around 50-80hz." Really, the frequency response spec you're looking at is useless for choosing the components you want. It only gives the response that you'll get within a certain tolerance (usually 3db), and that spec is taken IN A ROOM, not in a car. It's subjective as far as what you like, all will show a very flat frequency response IF you accomodate their sonic characteristics in the installation, install is 90% of how a system sounds. As far as the flattest freq. response, especially in a variety of installation options, my vote goes to the Dyns, they have an extremely flat impedance curve (almost entirely resistive besides the resonant frequency of the drivers) and are great from on axis to around 60 degrees off axis. The DLS set performs similarly. The Focals tend to be a little more leaned to on axis installs, although the off axis is nice. The System 240 Esotar is going to be my next component set, the 240 mid has plenty of midbass, and the Esotar tweeter is definately my favorite tweet, tops my list for being incredibly accurate and the most realistic tweeter. It's not your typical wimpy 1" car tweeter made to accomodate an easy install, it's a REAL tweeter  , the baffle of it is 5 1/2" wide so that resonance and near field diffraction are to a minimum, the motor of the tweeter is over 2" deep and close to 4" wide. It's what you'd see in a high end home tweeter. The result is a tweeter that is +/- 1.75 db from 2,150 hz to 20khz, only 2db down at 30 khz, and has extremely low distortion, less than 10 degrees of phase shift through it's entire frequency range, and has fantastic imaging. Like I said above, everyone has their preference and it's up to you to choose what you prefer. We can only steer you in the right direction |
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Silver Member Username: ShouderWisconsin Post Number: 118 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, it seems like im just going around and around in circles with my choices. Although i think that might be a good thing as i just keep learning more and more about these sets, and peoples experences with them. Theres something else that ive noticed, people only put in one component set. Is it odd that im planning on putting in a second component set for the rear too. What do you guys do to fill in the rear? just use regular coaxial speakers? Anyway thanks for all the help you guys are providing. I sometimes feel like a youngin around here. (19). Thanks again |
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Bronze Member Username: Audio_fanaticMukilteo, Wa Post Number: 34 Registered: Jan-05 | IMO u r just gonna be wastin ur money by puttin a second set of components in tha rear. I personally dont use any rear speakers, just my utopias and my w6v2 is good enough for me. Overall sq is better if you actually dont use a rear fill, in my experiences with it, and others would most likely agree that its better for sq if you dont use a rear fill. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3194 Registered: May-04 | The reason that they only install fronts is because it provides the best imaging. When you install rear speakers, you are throwing the speakers out of acoustic phase even more than they already are (it's because of pathlength differences), resulting in cancellation of certain frequencies and boosts in others. It results in large peaks and dips in your frequency response, and is very hard to control even with a good equalizer. Rears also tend to pull some of the imaging rearward, so the system overall loses a little focus. Less is more in a sound quality installation, the ideal system would be a single driver per channel that would deliver the entire frequency response, but right now it isn't possible. Most pure SQ competitors use 2 ways up front and 1 subwoofer, and leave it at that. |
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Silver Member Username: ShouderWisconsin Post Number: 119 Registered: Dec-03 | Thats good to know, that will save me quite a bit, i was starting to get alitte nervous dropping so much money so fast. You know jon i also have to ask you. How the hell are you going to mount those tweets. Thats going to create quite the challenge. That Esotar set is pretty impressive though, it makes me wish i had enough room for them. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3201 Registered: May-04 | Well, the next build I'm planning is a 65 Mustang (found it cheap in great condition), and if you look at the interior pics of those cars, the kick panels are HUGE. Plenty of room to work with, with some fiberglassing they could easily fit that component set in there. That's the beauty of old cars. IMO the SQ of that tweeter far surpasses the install hassle. |
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Silver Member Username: ShouderWisconsin Post Number: 121 Registered: Dec-03 | Thats awsome I wish i had that much room to play with, but im stuck with my little mazda hatchback. Im just trying my hardest to do a very uninstallable install w/o a whole lot of footprint, incase i need to sell it down the road. My biggest worry is that i wont have enough depth and i will have to modify the kick pannels. Although no matter what, i am going to have to do some modification to get the tweets nice and close and in proper position. (vertical with the mid's right?) It's going to be a fun install none the less. |
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Silver Member Username: ShouderWisconsin Post Number: 122 Registered: Dec-03 | Well, at least this board got me somewhere. Im down to the utopia 165w, and the dynaudio 240mkII. |
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Bronze Member Username: Audio_fanaticMukilteo, Wa Post Number: 38 Registered: Jan-05 | Utopia 165w all tha way!!!...haha... both are great choices, u wont be dissapointed with either of them |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3237 Registered: May-04 | That's one that only you can choose, I urge you to try and listen to both. We audiophiles tend to be very biased toward the speakers that we like, I've swayed you too much just talking about the Esotars above . I've been listening to these systems for years upon years, and it still took me a long time to decide what I wanted for my (hopefully) upcoming system. I was down to the Dynaudio 240 Esotar set and a custom Morel setup run active using their Supremo tweeters. I finally chose the Esotar set over the Morels because of it's accuracy and tonality (again my opinion), the Supremo tweets were a little too dull in certain areas and lacked shimmer when it was supposed to be there, and I liked the Dyn mids better overall as far as tonality and accuracy. I'm saying all this for example purposes, it's the little nitpicky things like that that make choosing a system so involved, you really have to get out your reference material and hit the shops or competitions up, and take a long, hard listen to see which set has what you're looking for. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3238 Registered: May-04 | I know you're probably wanting a more descriptive review of the differences of the sets, so I'll give you a list of both their similarities and differences: Similarities of both: Both are extremely accurate and detailed. Imaging is transparent WHEN installed correctly. Both aren't "power" sets, as in they aren't the loudest sets you can buy, nor are they for the type of people who are after 6x9 type overdone midbass and overly bright tweeters, but they will get loud enough for most people's tastes. Quality of upstream components is a big issue with either set, any noise, flaws, pops on recordings, etc. will be apparent because they're neutral. It can be annoying if you aren't used to it (and you've spent tons of money on CDs that you thought were well recorded), but they bring out everything else in your recording as well, such as subtle nuances that you didn't know were there in a very musical way. Focal Utopias: A little more of a "forward" set. The tweeters can be a bit bright initially, but the crossovers have settings to turn them down. Even though the tweeter is brighter, it isn't that harsh like sets such as the MB Quarts, but you can still tell that it is a metal dome (it's whether you like that or not). Midbass is a little more prominent and punchy than the Dynaudios, it sticks out a little more. Vocals are creamy sounding and the tweeter is smooth when you get the install right and the drivers in proper phase, clarity is very apparent and detail is definately there. Like in Dans case above, the main flaw is that they tend to be pretty sensitive about their power rating. Dynaudio 240 MKII: Laid back is the first thing that comes to mind. They are extremely transparent and neutral, imaging is dead on and the overall sound is very airy, warm and rich. They aren't really an "in your face" speaker system, the soundstage is very deep and wide, and focused. The detail and clarity is superb like the Focals, but it doesn't stick out like them, your typical car audio buyer will think they sound a tad dull compared to brighter sets. Midbass is there, but not as prominent as the Utopias, it's more airy as opposed to the Focals which are a bit more punchy. The tweeter rolls off quicker than the Focal and isn't as prominent around the 20khz region, you lose a little up high, but it has a softer tone that accomodates vocals and instruments in that region very well. They don't get as loud as the Utopias and at very high volumes tend to sound a bit more raw due to the shallow slope crossover. They tend to do better with more than their rated power than the Focals do. |
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Silver Member Username: ShouderWisconsin Post Number: 123 Registered: Dec-03 | Great! Thanks for that info. With that im leaning towards the focals. They sound like they fit my listing style and prefrences better. With out your very neutral help i would not have been able to find out what im looking for. Thankyou both jon, and dan for your help. However the story does not end here. Say for ease that i decide to get he focals i was plannin on running them with the jl audio 300/2 but according to dans experiences that may not be such a good idea. Any thoughts. Also one more thing. I looking for suggestions for interconnects and speaker wire. Currently im looking at the streetwires zero noise 6 interconnect and knukoncepts kasa kable silver plated 14awg speaker wire. Do either of you have experences with these or know of something else. Thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: Audio_fanaticMukilteo, Wa Post Number: 40 Registered: Jan-05 | I think u should get tha jl 300.2, i dont want u to be scared of that amp, becuz its a terrific amp, i just must of had a freak experience with that setup, and it is far from what u would expect, im pretty sure jonathan uses that same amp so that says somehting about it, at least i woiuld think so. if u decide to get another amp and u plan on gettin one of those sets u have mentioned, just make sure it puts out 150-200 watts per channel. |
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Silver Member Username: ShouderWisconsin Post Number: 124 Registered: Dec-03 | Awsome i was planning on using that amp cause i have heard so many good things about it. Howfully your experence is isolated. 2 more things though do you know anyother online places where i could get the utopias. The lowest i found for them was $620 on woofersetc.com Also what wiring are you using. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3261 Registered: May-04 | It's a great amp. I got it when I left the shop, but I have no complaints at all. Well underrated and excellent sound quality. Don't really know of many more online places, you're going to pay for Focals and Dynaudios, they retail for $1000+ usually (depending on set). Knukonceptz has a 4 guage, 4 channel wiring kit that is great. |
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Bronze Member Username: An_eagalachAnnandale, VA US Post Number: 61 Registered: Aug-04 | The cheapest I've seen the Focal 165W is $596 at http://www.cbrstereo.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=166 CBR also has the 240mkii for $489, if that is still of interest. |
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Silver Member Username: ShouderWisconsin Post Number: 125 Registered: Dec-03 | Great, that looks like it can be a trusted site. Thanks for the info Neil. |
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