Dynaudio System 340 Imaging Question

 

New member
Username: Azdave

Post Number: 1
Registered: Dec-04
So I got my midbasses installed in my doors, and I have the mid and tweeter mounted on a baffle board in my kickpanel. I'm using some plumbers tape while setting up my imaging. The install is in a 2003 Camry, and I'm powering them with a JL 300/2 through the stock crossovers for now.

The question is how best to set up the imaging. I got the 2004 IASCA SQ disc, and I've been using track 12 (l,c,r) and 17 (drums) to try and set the imaging.

I currently have the tweeter closer to me and the mid farther back in the kickpanel. So far, it seems like angling them up slightly and pointing them at the front of the opposite door has imaged the best. The soundstage still feels low, and the drum beats don't move very much across the left side.

I know Jonathan and GlassWolf are running the same set, so I was wondering if you two had any suggestions. Should I play with angling the mid and tweet on their own seperate axis? Since they are both domes, should I stick with off axis response?

I'm looking at either going active and powering the mids and tweets off a JL 300/4 with the midbasses on the 300/2. The other option is to build a custom cross for the mids and tweets, and run them off another 300/2. The one review I saw said crossover points of 4khz and 600hz with 24db slopes worked well.... Any suggestions?
 

Silver Member
Username: Solacedagony

New Jersey US

Post Number: 120
Registered: Oct-04
Dave, where did you get that cd at? And what other cds are there that test out your system to check it's potential?
 

New member
Username: Azdave

Post Number: 2
Registered: Dec-04
I got the disc from IASCA's website for $20. Go to their merchandise section and look under multimedia for their 2004-2005 IASCA Sound Quality CD. It has tons of tracks to set up imaging with stage maps and what not...
 

Silver Member
Username: Solacedagony

New Jersey US

Post Number: 121
Registered: Oct-04
Thanks a lot, and sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread or anything.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 6119
Registered: Dec-03
I'm using the system 360, and I think Jon has the 240GT set now and possibly a 360 as well.. but close enough.
You may want to try the mid and tweeter higher up in the doors, or the mid up high in the door, and tweeter fiberglassed into the A pillar on each side to raise teh soundstage.
Imaging positions sound about right.

I personally don't use the iasca disc myself. I don't think it's that great of a reference disc to be honest.
There are better discs around for a more realistic or live feel.
female alternative stuff like Sarah Mclachlan's Afterglow, or or The Story's Grace In Gravity.
Male vocals like Sting's Nothing Like the Sun, or Counting Crows' August, and Everything After.
Jazz artists like BB King or Louis Armstrong on any good digitally remastered CD like MFSL UltraDisc.
Eric Clapton's live double CD set, 24 Nights
MFSL's UltraDisc of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon (if you can afford it)
those are a few I'd suggest trying for goot soundstage and imaging samples.

you want music you can get to know and really get into. Music you can feel and lose yourself in. Not this selected sample crap IASCA sticks on the discs. You end up concentrating too much on the tracks and not anough on trying to feel like you're at a real performance.

 

New member
Username: Azdave

Post Number: 3
Registered: Dec-04
Thanks for the reply GlassWolf!

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't focus too much on the setup disc. I've found that the 7 drum beats track really helps though, but I'm going to break out some Norah Jones, Counting Crows, and Sarah Mclachlan this afternoon to do some fine tuning.

I did some more listening and tweaking, and it seems like I have the best imaging raising the speakers up in the kickpanels a bit with the tweeter a little lower and closer to the listener and aimed at the top middle of the opposite window. I've noticed that slight changes (like 5 degrees) can really make a difference.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 6130
Registered: Dec-03
yup. it can be a pain positioning speakers just right. ya run into the same thing in homes too when ya deal with higher end speakers like ESL panels, trying to get a good sweet spot for a listening room. You can spend the better part of a day moving towers around.. haha
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 2696
Registered: May-04
Yeah, I personally prefer my own music for imaging purposes. I'm using a System 360 in my truck, I plan on a 240 Esotar in the future. I basically had to install them in the mid door area because that's about the only option with an 83 C10 truck besides crappy dash locations. In other installs, I've usually used 2 ways with the midbass in kicks and the tweeter higher, with crossovers phase-matched or a touch of time correction tuned to get the tweeter phasing right. The midrange location is the most important, tweeters aren't as touchy about imaging. You just have to make sure the tweeter blends into the mid. With kicks, I usually build a wood baffle and wrap it with a towel, and screw flexible metal brackets connecting the baffle with the kick location. Then, you can aim as much as you want to very quickly and it stays there no problem, it'd be a little better than plumbers tape. A trick you can try with the mids for 3 ways is try playing around with the polarity, reverse the leads on either speaker(try both). Once you get it just right the soundstage will get pretty high, but remember that depends on the vehicle used. You could consider a CDT upstage kit, which has supertweeters that you install in the A-pillars, and use them where they just raise the stage. I've heard them and they work very well.
 

New member
Username: Azdave

Post Number: 5
Registered: Dec-04
Thanks for the info. I did mount the mid and tweet on a baffle and worked on angling. Right now my soundstage is a little low, and I might consider adding a tweeter up top to raise the soundstage. I have stock tweeter locations in the dash, and my a pillars aren't options because I have side curtain air bags. I'll try messing around with the polarity next.

I'm waiting on another JL 300/2 and some custom crossovers I ordered from Madisound to cross my tweet and mid at 24db and 4khz. I'm going to amp the mids and tweets with one 300/2 and the woofers with another 300/2. That way I can play with the time correction in my Alpine CDA-9833. I think have the driver side woofer closer than all of the other speakers is throwing me off a bit.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 2698
Registered: May-04
The dash location will work for those supertweeters if that is what you're considering. They aren't made so much for music production as they are to just add a touch of ambience to the music, lifting the soundstage in the process. It's just too bad I don't have a McLaren F1, with the center seat you could build a killer soundstage :-). Maybe that could be a future project of mine, convert a car to center seats, maybe something like an older Porsche 911 turbo. That'd be sweet.
 

New member
Username: Erase

Boston, Ma

Post Number: 1
Registered: Dec-04
I'm thinking about these speakers for 1994 Mercedes E-clas w-124 chassis- Does anyone know if the Mids will fit in the dash locations because of depth??

For imaging make sure you use a good prominent female vocalist. I've used Basia (Time and Tide) also good for gettting teh bass right using piano on track 10. MFSL Dark side is a must. Another good one is "Jazz at the Pawn shop"- or for Drums.....nothing beats using Dafos as your reference.

Also try feeding in a higher resolution source initally to help point out glaring abnormalities. I used an older Wadia 860 as a source when tuning my other systems.

Also to stop your kickpanels from resonating- get some Airconditioning duct putty
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