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Sperates question

 

Bronze Member
Username: Thrust

Post Number: 45
Registered: Nov-04
My 6 1/2 components are 3 ohm. If I hook up 2 tweeters and 2 midbass speakers, instead of just 1 each, what ohm load will my amp see? (My guess is 1.5 ohm, but with the crossover involved I'm not sure) Thx
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 5753
Registered: Dec-03
impedanec is only altered when both speakers wired together are producing the same freqquencies at the same time.
if you put a set of 4 ohm separates on a pair of amp channels, it stays 4 ohms, even though you have 2 mids, and 2 tweeters.
This is because the crossover module splits the frequencies between the speakers so the mid and tweeter only handle the freq ranges they're suited for.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blownriv

OH USA

Post Number: 61
Registered: Nov-04
assuming this is a 2-way set-up, if you wire the two mids and the two tweeters in parallel to the same channel, your amp will see a 1.5 ohm load instead of 3 ohms. this is because the speakers will be producing the same frequencies at the same time.

you would need to create a 4-way crossover in order to split the load among all four drivers, making it 3 ohms again.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 5768
Registered: Dec-03
I'm not sure I even follow what this guy is trying to do, honestly.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blownriv

OH USA

Post Number: 62
Registered: Nov-04
the way i understood, he wants to run two mids off the low-pass outputs of the crossover, and two tweets off the high-pass outputs. so four drivers total per channel. is this correct tim?
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 5782
Registered: Dec-03
I hope not.
that changes the impedance, and thus changes the crossover frequencies.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blownriv

OH USA

Post Number: 63
Registered: Nov-04
i guess the way to do it would be to use dual crossover networks for each set of mids and tweeters - two independant systems wired in parallel. the impedance would still change, but the crossover points would stay the same using this method.

even if you did this, i don't really see the benefit in having two tweeters. now, having two mids and one tweeter (d'appolito style) would be kinda cool.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Thrust

Post Number: 52
Registered: Nov-04
I have 2 sets of Precision Power DCX 650S (6 1/2 components) http://www.precisionpower.com/speakers/default.asp . My plan was to hook up one set in kick panels and one set in the doors. OK so I'd have to use all 4 crossovers with 1 tweet/1 midrange per crossover. Just hook the 2 speaker leads up at the amp for each channel? http://www.geocities.com/bigt_here/thrustsystem.jpg Also, it's prob important you know the crossovers are bi-wireable. Manual (and the sorriest manual I have ever seen) says that each component set is 75w rms. How the heck am I supposed to know how much power to send to each tweeter and each mid? Or maybe I should just forgo the PPI's passive crossovers altogether and buy another amp so the Symmetry can do all the work? Damn this is starting to sound expensive.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blownriv

OH USA

Post Number: 66
Registered: Nov-04
here's what i'd do:

install one component set (w/crossover) in the kicks. give each side 50-75 watts.

sell your other PPI component set on ebay.

listen to the system and decide if you like it, or if you think you want more upfront bass. if you need more punch, get some dedicated 6 1/2", 7", or 8" bass drivers for the doors. you should then use an active crossover to cut off your kick panel components a little higher than normal so you can send the 75-150Hz bass range to the doors. of course, you would need another 2 channels of amplification to power the extra bass drivers.

75x2 would power the kick panels just fine, and a 75x4 watt amp would work well to power both the kicks and the doors. it's up to you, but i wouldn't add the extra bass drivers unless you really feel you need them.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Thrust

Post Number: 53
Registered: Nov-04
Thx Aaron. I was hoping to use the equipment I currently own. My Orion HCCA is only 25w x 2 but is stable at 0.5 ohm. I figured it wouldn't be prudent to run one set of speakers from it. But now you have me thinking. AND wishing my HCCA was 4 channel! OK so if i say "screw the passive crossovers" and let the Symmetry do it all, is there a way to determine how much wattage the tweeters can handle? and the bass drivers? Or how about their ohm rating? I thought about 8's in the doors, but it wasn't a simple task to get the PPI 6.5 in the door, 8's would require major modification. HOt damn this is fun!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blownriv

OH USA

Post Number: 67
Registered: Nov-04
what are you using to power your subs?

the HCCA is a sub amp intended for driving 4 or more subs at once. you're right not to use it for the components.

you should look into an amp that puts out more power at normal loads to use for your front channels. if you had another HCCA, you could bridge both and use one per side for your components, but then you'd need to buy another amp for your subs.

as for using symmetry to control your crossover points, this can work very well if you know exactly what you're doing. otherwise, try to utilize the passive unit that came with the PPIs. the crossover point and tweeter protection it contains are designed to work with these specific drivers, so it eliminates the guesswork of getting everything right.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Thrust

Post Number: 57
Registered: Nov-04
I have an Earthquake 40UHC (1040w x 1 @ 4 ohm or 520 x 2 @ 2 ohm) Sry, I ran out of bandwidth and link wasn't working but here's a link to the setup I was originally planning: www.geocities.com/bigt_here/thrustsystem.jpg I do understand that at low ohm loads the Orion can pump out like 400w bridged @ 1 ohm, but that's not enough wattage for my Kicker XPL's (besides I wouldn't be using my Earthquake and I'd have to go buy another amp for seperates). I figured since the seperates were 3 ohm and I have 2 sets to hook up, the Orion would put out about 75w to each channel @ around 1.5 ohm. Keep in mind that's going by RATED watts for this amp @ 12v. I figured at that load the Orion would sound great on seperates. You don't think the Orion is a good amp for sound Q?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blownriv

OH USA

Post Number: 72
Registered: Nov-04
the HCCA would great SQ up to the point where it goes into clipping. the problem with having 25x2 is that there is no dynamic headroom, and that means SQ would be effected even at moderate volumes. you would notice less punch, and a small potential would exist for blown components if you cranked it into clipping for extented periods.

why don't you build the kick panels and install one of your component systems. hook up the HCCA and measure the performance. perhaps the amp is underrated (i suspect it is) and may provide enough power to sound good. if not, you know you need to get another amp.

and what about getting another HCCA 25x2, then use with your existing - one for each side - bridged. i did this with two rockford punch 40s. they were rated 20x2 - not much by themselves, but when i got a second one, i bridged one to my left and one to my right front channels to power my components. the result was over 100 watts per side. now it gets WAY TOO LOUD!
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 5821
Registered: Dec-03
the Orion HCCA amps are great for SQ, being all milspec components and class AB, but they are very low power at 4 ohms. they're not really made for the purpose of driving a 4 ohm load.
they perform much better when driven hard into a 1 ohm load, which means running multiple paralel component sets, or running subs.

PPI's old art series are much better for component speakers.. offered in much higher power ratings, and still use the same DIN signal path system as the older Orions.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Thrust

Post Number: 58
Registered: Nov-04
What about Phoenix Gold M44? Had any experience with that one? Seriously considering buying it. Thx

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