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Zapco amps and Alpine HU?

 

Bronze Member
Username: Stanleyc

Post Number: 23
Registered: Oct-04
How would someone connect the two together? Reading through the manual on Zapco's site, my final speaker configuration will probably look something like that on page 48 of this manual here: http://www.zapco.com/prod/pdf/c2k.pdf

From the diagram you can see that I will be having 4 mids and 4 tweeters. This will most likely be producing 2 soundstages. One in front and one in back. I know that setup is somewhat awkward, but I just want my passengers to enjoy the same listening environment I do. Is this a bad idea?

From that diagram, it shows the HU having 2 preouts. Doesn't the Alpine 9835 have 4 preouts? Would I need to merge all four together? Also how would the settings on a HU work if the preouts are merged, ie. adjusting the fader, balance, etc.?

For the final complete system I will probably have:
Zapco amps (3 of them as show in the diagram)
Stinger caps (plus some small stuff like battery terminals)
Speakers: still havn't decided what to get since I haven't had time to go anywhere to listen to them myself. The candidates so far include: Dynaudio, CDT, Focal, or DLS.
Sub: same situation as speakers. Candidates: JL 10W7/12W7, IDMax10/12, Ecplise SW9122/9102.

PS I probably won't be getting everything at once and that is why I chose that configuration. I will most likely start off with just the front and add more stuff as I get more money. If you haven't noticed by now, I am somewhat of a perfectionist. If I want something, I only want it good. I would rather have an incomplete high SQ system at first and then complete it later than having a crappy system right in the beginning. This way, I won't have to waste money tearing down the old stuff when I do get enough money for a good system.

Feel free to comment, criticize, bash, etc. I am rather open minded. =)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Stanleyc

Post Number: 26
Registered: Oct-04
O yea, I probably need batteries also, and HO alternator. I will most likely get Optima yellowtops unless there is something better. As for the alternator, I can't find anything higher than 150amps(from mralternator) for my Nissan 240sx. As for wiring, how important are the wires in a system like I suggested? I know good wires don't matter much for low end systems, but how important are they for something a bit higher? The stinger wires look pretty nice, but how are their quality?
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 2088
Registered: May-04
"If I want something, I only want it good. I would rather have an incomplete high SQ system at first and then complete it later than having a crappy system right in the beginning. This way, I won't have to waste money tearing down the old stuff when I do get enough money for a good system."
See, you learned very quickly :-)

Anyway, you only use the front preouts of the head unit, doesn't matter how many the head unit has. This does affect fader, balance, etc., but the SX-SL processor has integrated fader controls and a crossover that can work to be either 2 or 3 way. Only thing you'll lose is a balance control. Being a 16V balanced line (the symbilink processor) it would work better from a head unit with 8V unbalanced preouts such as the Eclipse 8454 head unit. I really don't think you should waste such a great amp ($$$ wise) on rear speakers, sound quality will be better (for you) with midbasses or nothing in the rear of the vehicle. I see it as a total waste to put high dollar component speakers in the rear since it'll only mess up the front stage, not help it. Heres a link that explains that.
http://www.teamcaf.org/geolemon/Phasing/Multiple.htm
If you do care about your rear speakers, I'd use cheaper speakers and a smaller amp, and fade the rear out when they're not in the car.
The speakers and subs you're looking between are all excellent and it all boils down to personal taste. Good choices, you really can't go wrong with any of them.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 2089
Registered: May-04
"If I want something, I only want it good. I would rather have an incomplete high SQ system at first and then complete it later than having a crappy system right in the beginning. This way, I won't have to waste money tearing down the old stuff when I do get enough money for a good system."
See, you learned very quickly :-)

Anyway, you only use the front preouts of the head unit, doesn't matter how many the head unit has. This does affect fader, balance, etc., but the SX-SL processor has integrated fader controls and a crossover that can work to be either 2 or 3 way. Only thing you'll lose is a balance control. Being a 16V balanced line (the symbilink processor) it would work better from a head unit with 8V unbalanced preouts such as the Eclipse 8454 head unit. I really don't think you should waste such a great amp ($$$ wise) on rear speakers, sound quality will be better (for you) with midbasses or nothing in the rear of the vehicle. I see it as a total waste to put high dollar component speakers in the rear since it'll only mess up the front stage, not help it. Heres a link that explains that.
http://www.teamcaf.org/geolemon/Phasing/Multiple.htm
If you do care about your rear passengers that much, I'd use a smaller amp at the least, and fade the rear out when they're not in the car.
The speakers and subs you're looking between are all excellent and it all boils down to personal taste. Good choices, you really can't go wrong with any of them.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 2090
Registered: May-04
Oops double post. As far as wiring, as long as you use a quality 16 AWG speaker wire for components, you'll be ok. For subs, I usually go with 14. A 150A alternator may be enough, it just depends on how much power you go with.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Stanleyc

Post Number: 29
Registered: Oct-04
LOL... I love this quote "As far as my passengers, when they start paying my car payments and other automotive expenses (like the system), THEN I will worry about their concerns...
As it is, I am giving my front seat passenger a great soundstage, and my rear seat passengers a back massage...
What more can they ask for? That's more than anyone else's car offers them..."

Hmm ok ok, I'll just stick with the fronts. One more question, isn't balance an important thing when trying to perfect the "phasing." Hope I'm using that term correctly.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 2099
Registered: May-04
Not really if the install is good(kick panels work best). You're thinking about time correction or a phase inverter, they show much more benefit. Balance simply adjusts the volume of the left or right channels. Phase inverters do the best job, but don't account for a good install, so keep that in mind. Also, when you optimize the time correction for the drivers seat, you screw it up for the passenger.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Stanleyc

Post Number: 32
Registered: Oct-04
I just went to the Eclipse site and did some reading. How well do you think the CD8035 HU would work in my situation. I was looking at that because it has 16v balanced outs and was thinking that if I connect that HU directly into the amps without the SX-SL. Also about how much is it and how much would the E-comm be? That thing sounds interesting.
 

Silver Member
Username: Fishy

Tamarac, FL USA

Post Number: 367
Registered: Sep-04
Happen to know the least expensive Alpine(or Eclipse)that includes phase correction abilities?. My perfect h/u would include a couple of those, a volume control, and some buttons to operate the CD and turn the darn thing on and off.

All those other bells and whistles just hurt my ears.

And whatever happened to "tuners"? Onboard mosfet amps seem like an awful waste of space and money to me.

-Fishy
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 2102
Registered: May-04
"dead heads" seem to be all too uncommon these days. No head unit I know of has a phase inverter, they use time correction by putting a delay on the selected channel. PPI makes external phase inverter units, and they can help to an extent. The Nakamichi CD-700 is a beautifully simple head unit, but doesn't have time correction.

Stanley, I think you're talking about the CD8053, its the older flagship model and isn't in stores anymore, but if you can find one from a friend or on ebay it's still fantastic. You'd have to find that with that years e-com, I believe they've upgraded since. They may still be compatable, though. The 8454 is the current flagship model, but it would need the symbilink processor b/c the preouts are unbalanced. You could get the 8454 and a SPL4-SL preamp, which will convert the unbalanced 8V signal to a balanced 16V signal, it also serves as a overall system volume, 4 band equalizer for quick adjustments, fader, and sub level control. Then you can route that to the amps via the Zapco symbilink cable (better than RCAs, it's firewire cable). The Zapcos can accept the 16V RCA cables from that Eclipse head unit, but I'd recommend their Symbilink cables for lowest noise.
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