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Capacitor Question....

 

New member
Username: Its_bacon12

Post Number: 36
Registered: 12-2003
ok im setting up a system with about 1200w rms so should i use a 1 farad cap and a .5 farad cap or just go all out with a 2 farad cap or a 1.5 farad cap? most asking glasswolf here but anyone else can help me out
 

New member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 674
Registered: 12-2003
don't bother with any capacitors. they won't help.
get a high output alternator capable of supplying the current your amplifiers will be drawing.
one those capacitors discharge, which will take under a minute, they won't be doing you any good at all.
 

New member
Username: Its_bacon12

Post Number: 38
Registered: 12-2003
lol ok i was just asking cuz i was going to get a 165A HO alterternator from mralternator.com and i was wondering if a cap would lighten the load a little cuz im adding some fog lights and radar detector, and some other little stuff

thanks
 

New member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 694
Registered: 12-2003
the capacitor won't take any load off of the alternator per se. at best what the cap will do is smooth out the spikes in demand from things like hard hitting bass. that'll mean a more smooth draw of current (though still just as much of it) which will stress teh alternator less.. theoretically.

will it really make the alternator last longer between rebuilds? who knows.
 

New member
Username: Zen936

Post Number: 9
Registered: 01-2004
Glasswolf please fill me in more on capacitors. Reason I'm asking is because I was starting to realize how my lights dimmed when my bass punched.

So with a capacitor, would it still dim my lights whenever my bass hits? I spoke to the audio mechanic doing my car and he says not all cars can have their alternators changed due to the fact that they are 'computerized'? Is he making sense? I drive a Nissan Skyline (1999) model coupe.
 

New member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 720
Registered: 12-2003
you can still upgrade the alternator in cars with computers.
the computers are fairly easy to bypass. all you do is cut the sensor wire that monitors the alternator.

capacitors are useless.
 

New member
Username: Zen936

Post Number: 18
Registered: 01-2004
I'm looking to the possibility of

a. Changing the wiring
b. Changing the alternator

If the first would be cost effective for me, I'd go for it, but I'd like to know if anyone experience any problems using 4gauge. Any precautions to take?
 

New member
Username: Its_bacon12

Post Number: 43
Registered: 12-2003
again, like i said before...changing wire will not help your power output at all, a new alternator with higher output is the only thing that will give you more power.
 

New member
Username: Zen936

Post Number: 19
Registered: 01-2004
"4 gauge wire you only use if your amplifier requires roughly 90a-150a of curent draw. Before you do that though, you have to have
an alternator that will put out that much, and then more."

Ryan M. regarding your comment on a different thread above, just to clear things out. Once I upgrade my alternator, would I need to change my 8gauge wiring to 4gauge as well, or can I still stick with the 8gauge? Because in your post, it's as if the wiring needs to be changed too. Thanks.
 

New member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 743
Registered: 12-2003
http://www.the12volt.com/info/recwirsz.asp
 

New member
Username: Its_bacon12

Post Number: 44
Registered: 12-2003
glasswofl's link has what you need to know about the cables and how much they can handle as far as amperage goes with length
 

mitch@evolution-r
Unregistered guest
i have got 3200 watts in total from my 3 amps and 4 12" rockfords, my car lights dim like bugger with the stereo on so i upgraded battery, alternator etc which did help but culd still drain my battery and dimm my lights so i got a 2.0 farad capacitor and it made a hell of a difference and also made the car more responsive as the electrical power was there for the ecu.
 

mitch@evolution-r
Unregistered guest
ps im using 0 gauge wire, not cheap and damn huge.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 1422
Registered: 12-2003
0ga is maybe $2/foot
it's not that expensive.
the capacitor is only masking the symptoms. the problem is still there.
your alternator isn't large enough.
 

Unregistered guest
hello glasswolf i see that you know an awful lot about caps and alternators....i have a question. ok i have a 2000 eclipse and i have a 90a alternator...now i am puttin in 2 jl w6's and runnin them with an mtx class d 800 watt amp mono, so 400 watts to each but the amp isnt gonna be turned up all the way obviously....do you think i have enough power to ride like that ? would i need a cap etc ? let me kno because i have wired my car and im just waiting for the amp to get here, i just dont wanna put the stuff in and have my car die on me on the road somewhere, so please any help i would appriciate. thank you
 

joe haduxer
Unregistered guest
i was wondering how these 25 farad capacitors are made. i see them and they're in the form of an amp case. how are these made?
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 1436
Registered: 12-2003
An 800W class D amp will draw about 80A of current peak. If it's not turned up to peak output, then it'll draw less power..
The decrease in current will be by a factor of ten for each +10dB down from peak.

you may be fine, maybe not.
Try it. if the lights dim, get a larger alternator.
the capacitors don't really help. They just mask the problems at best.

Regarding teh 25Fd caps, they are usually just a bank of smaller capacitors in a single casing, wired together in parallel.
 

Unregistered guest
I have two polk momo 300/2 amps, one for lows and one for highs. The bass amp(bridged)is pushing two 12 inch pioneer dual voice coil subs. The system was working perfect, (powered by stock 60 amp alternator) sounded like four 12's. (Car is a 91 honda crx). My buddy said that the system would fry the stock 60amp alternator so I changed the alternator to a 114amp. Ever since I changed the alternator the system doesnt sound half as good and when I crank it up the amp shuts itself off repeatedly. Ive spent alot of time and money and now Im really frustrated. Someone please help. Thanx. Please answer to this site or my e-mail elimory77@yahoo.com
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bruhneedluv2

Post Number: 42
Registered: May-04
question, glasswolf: I went to see your installs on your webpage and you have a capacitor there. Why are capacitors a bad thing if you have one in that set up (jeep cherokee i think)? I'm confused. Also will a weak battery cause the lights to dim when the bass hits? I have a 120a stock alt but I just discovered that my battery was gone. I replaced that battery with a duralast (900 cca 1000 total cca)battery. do you think that problem will occur again?

Sorry to be a pain but I have been in here for some time now and I have seen some things contradicting from others that post. I read your posts, jon's and matt lav's posts and I see some sense being made after assimilating it all. Also I have one kole MWF 10" and I am waiting on the other one. What would I need to look for as far as SQ? and how would I check for distortion as well?

ALL HELP FROM THE VETS ARE APPRECIATED!!!
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3512
Registered: Dec-03
a capacitor isn't a replacement for a high output alternator. the only purpose for a capacitor is for brief peak demands that can be up to ten times the RMS output of the amplifiers. If, and only if, the rest of teh charging system is up to par, is capacitance helpful. Then the caps will decrease transient delay for the amplifier power supplies during peak demand.
this should help:
http://p079.ezboard.com/fcaraudiotalkfrm27.showMessage?topicID=49.topic

If your lights are dimming, you need a larger alternator.
the stock rating doesn't matter. If it's 120A stock, that means the car was designed to need that much current itself, or the maker would have used a smaller alternator. You need to get a bigger one to handle your larger demands of the amplifiers.
the battery will help when the engine is off.

as for Kole... you won't get much SQ from anything by them. They're on par with Pyramid and Legacy. Very cheap.
If you want good SQ, you'll want better subs.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bruhneedluv2

Post Number: 45
Registered: May-04
even the MFW is bad? they are their signature line from my understand
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3531
Registered: Dec-03
"Kole" is another company like Rockwood, that tries to mislead people by using a name that's very similar to a real high end audio company (KOVE Audio.)
Kole products are most easily found at swap meets or stores like Wal-Mart.
 

New member
Username: Insearchofbass

Post Number: 4
Registered: Jun-04
hello all i saw the post here and wanted to throw in my two cents from experience too. I have seen that capacitors do help but just like glasswolf said it seems only temporary. I mean i thought about it also and asked myself what is a capacitor then i thought ok they are in the amplifiers we use so obviously they store and release and the one farads etc are just larger versions. So i figured i wasnt going that way esp since ive seen that my friends audio art 100 hc (800 rms true power at 1 ohm tested) was still draining his current in his chevy blazer with a 100 amp alternator i believe now the battery isnt being cooked but my point is the cap (1 farad) isnt solving the problem. I personally was going to use a batcap along with my optima red top but then i realized that the second battery still will only take the extra pull for current and eventually loose its reserve at least in terms of daily use and i do have one as of yet to hook up but adding an ho alternator will work because i will not be in a state of insufficient current and will not be stressing all the other components beyond their design limits.

thanks,

in search of bass
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3540
Registered: Dec-03
http://p079.ezboard.com/fcaraudiotalkfrm27.showMessage?topicID=49.topic

http://p079.ezboard.com/fcaraudiotalkfrm27.showMessage?topicID=50.topic

right you are, Kenny! (I know, too much MXC)
yeah you have the idea. Good job thinking that one through.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bruhneedluv2

Post Number: 46
Registered: May-04
well I guess I am confused. I have seen JL Audio, ID's, Kicker, Precision Power, MTX, Memphis, and Focal subs at my local flea market. We have swap meets here as well and I know I have seen JL Audio there for the last 4 times they were and thought they were generic as hell because of the name reminded me of JBL subwoofers. I guess it is not where you bought it but how it performs.

I guess Farenheit, SPL, and Power Acoustik are horrible too? they are all made by the same company. I have heard the MOFO from spl winners out here in Pine Bluff, AR. Music Mart is the name of the shop that has won the comps. all first place trophies. I guess they are crap as well too. I appreciate all the feedback that I get on here. Honestly I do. The koles fit my budget and give me plenty of trunk space and excellent bass. Others have heard them at the shops out here and are looking into those. peace
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bruhneedluv2

Post Number: 46
Registered: May-04
well I guess I am confused. I have seen JL Audio, ID's, Kicker, Precision Power, MTX, Memphis, and Focal subs at my local flea market. We have swap meets here as well and I know I have seen JL Audio there for the last 4 times they were and thought they were generic as hell because of the name reminded me of JBL subwoofers. I guess it is not where you bought it but how it performs.

I guess Farenheit, SPL, and Power Acoustik are horrible too? they are all made by the same company. I have heard the MOFO from spl winners out here in Pine Bluff, AR. Music Mart is the name of the shop that has won the comps. all first place trophies. I guess they are crap as well too. I appreciate all the feedback that I get on here. Honestly I do. The koles fit my budget and give me plenty of trunk space and excellent bass. Others have heard them at the shops out here and are looking into those. peace
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3544
Registered: Dec-03
"well I guess I am confused. I have seen JL Audio, ID's, Kicker, Precision Power, MTX, Memphis, and Focal subs at my local flea market."

used maybe. not new.
JL, Image Dynamics, and Focal are both very selective about who they license to sell their products.

"I guess Farenheit, SPL, and Power Acoustik are horrible too? they are all made by the same company. I have heard the MOFO from spl winners out here in Pine Bluff, AR. Music Mart is the name of the shop that has won the comps. all first place trophies."

yes. they are all crap brands, from a crap company.
you can have a very loud system that still sounds like @ss. As for pine bluff, wherever that is, I'm glad he's won a few local competitions with his cheap products. He wouldn't last long in state and national level events. I doubt he'd survive regional, especially in real events that are sanctioned by IASCA or USACi, as opposed to little backyard bass-off "events." in Backwater towns. Sorry, but I see these claims too often by people who don't really know anything about real pro-level circuit competition.

" The koles fit my budget and give me plenty of trunk space and excellent bass. Others have heard them at the shops out here and are looking into those."

If you're happy with them, that's great, and that's what matters in the end, but until you've heard better equipment in a good installation, don't make claims that wouldn't ever hold up in the real world please.
Also, if you don't want the truth about your products, don't ask. Asking someone "what do you think about..." is going to get you responses. Not sunshine blown up your skirt, so to speak.

I hope I answered your previous questions about capacitors and my systems.
after over a decade in this industry, a degree in a related field, and mecp gold certification, I like to think I know at least something about how various brands are put together. After replacing enough of the cheap crap after failure, I got a decent handle on what to avoid.

best of luck.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Bruhneedluv2

Post Number: 47
Registered: May-04
No need to insult the town, glass. And there is really no need of being condescending. The info I get I bring back in here from people who own shops in Pine Bluff, AR and Little Rock, AR. Honestly people come through there on a regular basis selling equipment, setting up in flea markets and those are the names I have seen come through. the flea market there has decent facilites, cheap rent, and plenty of road access. Just because they are not sold out of a shop with bells and whistles all around does not mean that the equipment sold is faulty or used.

Also these shops sell JL Audio and Memphis mostly. But this guy used Mofos to prove a point.

"He wouldn't last long in state and national level events. I doubt he'd survive regional, especially in real events that are sanctioned by IASCA or USACi, as opposed to little backyard bass-off "events." in Backwater towns. Sorry, but I see these claims too often by people who don't really know anything about real pro-level circuit competition."

I'm sorry that you are so closed-minded in think that "backwater" towns do not have the capability to compete and win state regional and sanctioned comps. Remember, this is America. Because he stays there does not mean that is his hometown. You go where the money's good, open shops, build rep for customers, and then set up shops everywhere else. this guy is in the same age category as you. Im not far behind you all either since you all are in your mid 30's Im knocking at 30 myself.

But hey, people have opinions whether asinine or conducive. It's up to the people in here to assimilate the difference.

Also, the last time I checked bass always sounded like a whale with a seroius bowel movement: loud as hell and can possibly negate what hearing ability you have left. Being that you are an electrical engineer and that I worked in studios throughout the South i.e. part-time sound engineer and producer, there may be conflicting information. I know what music is supposed to sound like and you know the process of how voltage, voice coils, and what have you brings the music together: ta-may-toe ta-mau-toe.

I guess the speakers aint hot feces unless the music it is engineered right. that is my hobby. I just wanted to see what the forum mods have to say different than what I have seen and heard in person. No claims to be made. Lies do not become me.

Truthfully speaken, I feel that if the music in the cars do not match the headsets in quality (yeah I know they are right on my ears and I can hear more detail), the $2500 system aint fit for biohazardous waste disposal.

Enough co-signing of others' jock straps. Everybody has a preference.

this info is all I need.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3549
Registered: Dec-03
By no means can a good system not come from a small town. My point was that many people who've never been outside of tehir little rural county think they have the best system in the world, and they've never seen a competition level system. Your comments were in line with such situations.

I don't get into SPL systems myself, but I know how to set one up. It's part of my job. You first brought up how "loud" these cars are. SQ is a whole different story, as is reliability. Neither of these latter two subjects are shining points for lesser companies.

Yeah haedsets are great, and can cost a small fortune for a good set and headset amp. I don't suggest driving with headphones on however, sinec that is illegal. :-)
I like my Martin Logans better than most car systems, too, but they don't work too well on the road either.

" the speakers aint hot feces unless the music it is engineered right."

amen. a large factor in why I use MFSL master recording CDs for system demonstrations. I haven't seen much in the way of CDs that are mastered better than those.

as for forum mods, I'm not aware of there being any. regarding my attitude toward you, I was only returning what I felt was delivered in your initial posts. I don't appreciate people going out of their way to be cute and try to point out contradictions or mistakes to look "smart." This is how your questions came across in demeanor.

anyway, there is a lot that goes into designing the right product.. for amps, it's everything from using MilSpec components, to having an adequate power supply. these are all things that are frequently overlooked or skimped on to save production costs in lower end products, and it affects both performance and longevity.
For speakers it can be anything from magnet structure design to coil wire quality and cooling design.
A speaker may look good, but that doesn't mean it has good linear tracking at high excursion, or that the coils can handle prolonged high temperature use, and many other factors.
Keep in mind though, most times you see a blown speaker it's not from too much power. It's from amplifier distortion, be that caused by the amp clipping from lack of current, or being a digital amp which produces high distortion levels at high output levels, or from gains being set too high, or what have you.

hope something here helped you, anyway.


 

New member
Username: Pyrogallegos

Albuquerque, N.m. Usa

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jun-04
glasswolf whats your info on fosgate? ive put alot of money in on a system of rockfordfosgate and plan on still looking into alarger punch amp. should i? pyro
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 3613
Registered: Dec-03
sure
rockford makes good stuff. not my personal preference, but by no means poor quality.
I just feel they've become overly commercialized, and lost touch with the high end elite market they held in the earlier years. They've become more of a mass produced, easily available to the masses sort of company in my view.
 

Unregistered guest
hey Phil im from BURQUE too where did u get certified at?
 

Anonymous
 
Dude why drag this back up after 2 months gzz.
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