Help with tweeter location
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 26 Registered: Oct-11 | Made some research in the forum and that tweeter should be preferably located as near to the woofer as possible; located on top of the woofer where it is closer to the driver and the passenger side. Here are some pictures showing the spots where i would like to install my tweeter2011 Ford Fiesta hatch). Please tell me what you think. Thanks.     1st pic:kick panel, my first choice (-) :tweeter is not by the driver's side. 2nd pic: dash mount (-) tweeter faces toward the ceiling 3rd pic: door mount (-) steering wheel blocks tweeter toward passenger side 4th pic: current stock location |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 27 Registered: Oct-11 | Sorry, forgot to mention the components i have its a morel maximo. I know, it should be mounted on the door together with the woofer. But would it really make a lot of difference if the woofer is nearer to the passenger/driver than the tweeter and should the tweeter be always be higher than the woofer? I really like the looks on mounting it on the kick panels. I'm just hoping that someone would say its safe to install it there. Side by side with the woofer and again, only that the woofer is closer to the passenger/ driver than the tweeter. But tweeter is a bit higher than the woofer and angled towards the passenger/driver and the woofer is not. Maybe the tweeter being pointed towards the person could compensate for its located after the woofer. Any suggestion? Especially from the golden guys out there. Thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 672 Registered: May-09 | Check out this custom install from Focal's WS, notice the tweeter aiming straight at you:  Perfect soundstaging not to high not too low. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 30 Registered: Oct-11 | Hi Joe. That looks really nice and clean, seems it came stock with the car. Even the color of the speakers looks really nice with the upholstery. With my door, it would have been the same placement if only they interchange the tweeters and the side mirror control toggle. But what you think of the areas where i put the tweeter? Which do you think would give the best imaging? But of course i would still experiment on the tweeters, before drilling holes. Also, I'm a bit bias on the kick panels, because the tweeter looks nice there. And I'm still hesitant to use the flush mount because of the big hole its going to make. By the way i finally got everything and will start my installation on tuesday. Thanks for all the advice. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 681 Registered: May-09 | The simplest rule is not to put them in a way that anyone's body on the front seats can obstruct sound (that would not be the case in the install on the pic) and not way to far from the midbass, but I have seen tweets being aimed at the windshield with interesting results. Really no rules, I made the point of tweeter location because people just pick a location and then get stuck with it since they already made holes, one other thing if your criteria is not to drill visible holes then probably an under-dash location could be your best bet. Regarding the install watch out for the chassis grounding on the amp, it's a common mistake with bad consequences, you could blow the EQ if your amp looses ground, fuse the EQ as instructed. All your grounding should be to metallic parts bolted to the chassis, very important to avoid pops, engine noise, amp overheating among other issues. Let me know if you have any concerns during the install. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 31 Registered: Oct-11 | Thanks will try putting it in different location before mounting it permanently. Will update you and post pics when I'm done. Thanks again. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 32 Registered: Oct-11 | Hi joe, I'm back and almost done with the installation. So far so good, sounds great only that there is still a slight hiss and whine on the front passenger side, which we could not find. I think we have done everything, checking the LOC, EQ and amp and its not coming from any of the units but still something is creating the noise. Hopefully will find it soon. Regarding the cache LOC this thing is powerful, did not even touch the amp's gain. The 4ch amp all set at zero gain, i wonder if thats good or not. Also, the bazooka BTA 6100 sub has doubled its bass, also at zero gain. EQ is easy to use and sends very clear sound. Tweeter location. Still trying to experiment but very confusing. I use the old IASCA disc for my reference. Tried the kick panels, doors, stock location, dash board and pillars . And so far the best location for my ears is on top of the dash and facing the windshield. I listen to the 7 drum beats and the 3 person saying left, center and right. But when i get to adjust the tweeter to make it as close as i could of the sound to their designated locations. But when i listen to it on the passenger side, it sounds far to their designated locations. What do you think i can still do? Also, the tweeter facing the windshield will this be right? Thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 715 Registered: May-09 | Hello Carlos, first I am really glad that the stock HU is providing the sound quality you were expecting, that's hard to achieve with a stock HU. If you have a friend or someone crazy about audio invite him in to share impressions regarding tweeter placement, Also listen the CD on good home audio or other car audio system. You also should know that the equipment itself and it's settings have an effect on soundstaging. Regarding the noise hopefully you will find the cause certainly the gains set to zero that let you listen at full power seem weird, try looking at the manuals for proper gain settings on the LOC, EQ and amp. If after a while you want me to look at the issues I would need to know how everything was connected and placed (signal/power/speakers) and details on the noise, like if its audible on your rear speaker, changes when the car is on/off, etc. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 33 Registered: Oct-11 | So far i think followed the instructions on how to set the gain. First i set everything to minimum (head unit bass treble, LOC, EQ and amp). I increased the volume of the head unit before distortion. Increased the gain of the LOC before distortion and to match the volume of the EQ. Did not even really push the gain of the LOC to reach distortion because i was already satisfied with the loudness. Wiring: Head unit, i installed the front speaker wires to the LOC. -Power source for the LOC under the steering wheel ACC ignition switch . Output of the LOC to the main input of the EQ. -EQ power soure, same just tapped it on the LOC power source -from the LOC remote output i connected the remote turn on of the EQ , amp and amplfied sub LOC and EQ mounted under the dash of the passenger side. -Drilled a new hole by the right kick panel to ground them there. -4 ch amp location is at the baggage compartment mounted at the back of the seat -Power line on the driver side, RCA and remote on wires on the passenger side. (note: tried disconnecting the remote wire that runs with the RCA cable and wired it with the power line still get the same noise). Amplifier power supply. -Installed an in-line fuse by the battery and to the amp. Tapped the sub amp power source from there using 8mm power line. -ground source, on the seats bolt. EQ to Amp using RCA cables Amp to speakers, Front, used new wires for the component speakers - tweeters on the dash, passive crossover inside the kick panels Rear, tapped new wires to the old spreaker wires to run the coaxcials |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 718 Registered: May-09 | Ok Carlos, I will assume that you are using 3 RCA sets from the EQ to the back. Also is important to know if the whine stops when the car is off. Some defective electronic devices create their own noise, also, under when in wrong supply voltage, the hiss can present itself with the car off. There is another thing, the +12 supply to the LOC and EQ should be straight from the battery and *fused* (page 4 on the cache manual also suggest this) the ignition switched +12 to the remote in on the LOC and the rest is OK, this is done precisely to avoid noise issues. To test if the incoming signals to the amp are not clean just unplug the RCAs at the amp and turn on the car if you cease to hear the noise then that is the case. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 34 Registered: Oct-11 | The hiss and whine is there when the car is on. But this morning the sound went away, could it be a faulty RCA plug? And yes, I'm using 3 RCA sets from the EQ to the back. With the tweeter placement, we decided to put it on the dash facing half way in between the driver's ear and the ceiling. Here are pics of the installation.   |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 727 Registered: May-09 | Your install looks nice and clean, so great it's done. Bad news you have no sound, no RCAs will fail like that. First check that all devices have power (lights on). If you hear nothing not even the bass then the EQ is not receiving signal from the LOC try connecting something on the AUX input on the LOC and switching to it. If you still hear the bass tube but not the speakers the fuse on the amp could be blown. Don't know if you performed the mod I suggested in my previous post. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 35 Registered: Oct-11 | Its all done now, sounds great. Finally the whine and the hiss went away and the truth is, I really don't know what i did. But its all working perfectly now. I'm just hoping that nothing will come out anymore. Joe. thank you, thank you for all the help. Tweeters are still temporarily mounted and still trying to find the sweet spot. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 729 Registered: May-09 | Ok Carlos, I am really glad for you, not everyone ends up getting the results they want out of an install so you are one of the lucky ones. Since you don't have much insight on the problems you experienced those might show up later but I guess that are not serious. And it usually takes a while to get the best out of your audio, I am sure you will nail down the perfect location for the tweets. Best of luck and if you ever want to upgrade or have any questions let me know. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 36 Registered: Oct-11 | Hi joe. I just want to let you know that, there was an EMMA competition here last weekend. I didn't join. But I was able to meet one of the judges and was kind enough to sit in my car to see and listened to my system. What's even better he adjusted the EQ for me. Which it improved a lot from my settings. So far, he like the sound of my set-up. But he advised me to deadened the doors some more, to improve my soundstage and to remove some of the vibration on my door panels. He also suggested a processor/time delay so i could center the vocals. What processor do you think would work for my set-up? Thanks |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 790 Registered: May-09 | Hi Carlos, good to see you are still doing well, regarding your question, these devices exist but they are incredibly expensive, no point, every time you process a signal it degrades, not convenient for SQ. The proper way to introduce these functions is before the signal is converted to analog for the first time, so what is done now is having the head unit support these functions or digitally interface to a device that performs that so the signal integrity is preserved. For example the Alpine CDA-117 which interfaces to the PXA-H100 module. For these reasons there are few current devices like these and fewer that have a standalone interface, usually you control them via bluetooth and such, others I beleive you can buy an interface which further the cost, I remember the older PrecisionPower DCX-730 should be inexpensive. And man you are already eyeing to compete! Can't believe how fast you go. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 37 Registered: Oct-11 | No, I don't plan to compete at all. Its just really more for my me and my girlfriend listening pleasure. Very tempting and fun to watch thou. For the processor I was thinking and planing to save for the Rockford fosgate 3sixty.3 or the JBL MS-8. I think both accepts high speaker input, since I really want to keep the stock HU. So now i have 3 choices including the PrecisionPower DCX-730 as what you suggested. So what do you think I should dream and aim for? Thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 821 Registered: May-09 | For the sole purpose of dreaming you can consider the Audison Bit One |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 38 Registered: Oct-11 | Will give it time, maybe ill get over this car stereo thing and hopefully stop spending. Anyways I'm enjoying what i have now. thanks so much. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 836 Registered: May-09 | Audio and upgrades go hand in hand no problem, go to events and check out systems, talk to people, I think you are a SQ guy so those type of events. Since you have auxiliary inputs you can borrow signal from other systems and check out time alignment or other stuff. Well researched upgrades are worthwhile. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 39 Registered: Oct-11 | Yes, I'm a SQ person never liked loud cars. Thanks for the support and advice. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 40 Registered: Oct-11 | Joe, I like the bit one but I find it to expensive. What if I get the RF 3 sixty.2 you think it will make a big improvement to my system? |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 41 Registered: Oct-11 | Hi joe, I was able to get a used RF 3sixty.2 on ebay. Now I'm worried if i'll be able to operate it right. I'm wondering if you are familiar with this unit and be willing to help me again. We have some installers here that has heard of the unit, but I'm afraid they are not familiar with the unit. What do you think on my decision for getting this unit? |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 872 Registered: May-09 | Hi Carlos, you won't find many people familiar with those but they are not really that hard to operate or install, one downside of that unit is that it lacks a standalone interface, it needs a bluetooth enabled laptop to modify settings, it supports other handheld devices as well, you may want to look at these: http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/library/2008/2_SignalProcessors/3Sixty_Set UpNotes.pdf http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/library/2006/2_SignalProcessors/Deutsches- 3Sixty-MAN.pdf Hope you got it for a nice price and that it comes without any issues and the test CD, have fun with it and if I can help you with something let me know. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 42 Registered: Oct-11 | Thanks Joe. I'm glad your always there to help. I got the unit for $300 with the CD and a Palm that the owner uses to control 3sixty. Regarding with any issues, I just hope it does not have any. But the seller claims its in very good condition. It got a picture on the web, still looks good and still have the original box. When i get the unit I'll open another topic for others to see also. Thank you so so much. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 43 Registered: Oct-11 | I was thinking of using the cache cloc+d line driver/ line output converter in between the head unit and the 3sixty? just my thought, so i could have a maximum output voltage of 10V to feed the the processor. What do you think, will this work? |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 873 Registered: May-09 | First this is the english version of the manual (not the German): http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/library/2006/2_SignalProcessors/1230_52040 _02-3Sixty-MAN.pdf Yes you can use your current LOC if you want and route to the aux input of the 3sixty, that woul at least prevent the need to mess yet again with the output of the HU, I don't think that giving 10 Volt to the 3sixty will do any good to it though, just through the gain setting procedure as before. And that's what I was going to tell you, is best to reduce the signal path as much as you can, so unless you want to retain the analog knobs of the previous EQ is better to bypass it altogether. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 44 Registered: Oct-11 | ok. If the 10 volts will not do any good. Then i will just bypass the LOC and the EQ. Anyway ill just remove the speaker wires from the LOC and transfer it to the 3sixty and the RCA from the EQ to the 3sixty. Will mount it on the same location so i dont need to rewire. Seems its going to be a quick installation, i just hope nothing is wrong with the unit. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 45 Registered: Oct-11 | Oh wow! Thanks for the installation manual. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 874 Registered: May-09 | Yes Carlos in principle the less devices you have in the signal path the less loss of quality you will experience. Luck with that install. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 46 Registered: Oct-11 | Joe, I have a stupid question. What happens to the passive crossover of my component speakers if I use the 3sixty? Should I still use it? Can i still use the crossover of the 3sixty even with the passive crossover? Hope you understand my question. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 876 Registered: May-09 | Ok, just make two channels high pass and set to 60Hz to send to the amp, the sub channel set to 60Hz to send to the bass tube. Now high end SQ systems are run fully active (taking away any passive crossovers) but you would need a 6 channels amp to do that. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 47 Registered: Oct-11 | I'm afraid you were going to say that. Any way i have a question about time delay. If I delay the speakers on the driver side, to center the drivers sound image. What will happen to the front passenger side, sound image? |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 884 Registered: May-09 | LOL.. you got it, but still you can align back speakers with front speakers and keep things even. You can consider a listening point in the center of the front seats in which you will get partial benefits for both front seats, one of the reasons it's recommended to place the tweeter near the midbass is that, call it natural time alignment, also passive crossovers cause phase shifting, that is one of the reasons for going fully active, DSP based filters do not introduce phase shifting. The list of optimizations for SQ is long... I say just play with it until you get more or less what you want. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 48 Registered: Oct-11 | So you mean. With time delay, if I prioritize the driver side to get the best center image the front passenger side has to suffer? Meaning I still don't get the right center image for both front seats? Now since my tweeter is on the dash and my mid/woofer is on the doors. Where should I get my measurement for time delay, from the tweeters or from the mid/woofers? I'm really sorry for my questions and I don't know how long you'll be patient with me. Thanks you. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 890 Registered: May-09 | It's a tiny delay so if not an audiophile most likely the front passenger won't even notice. Since they are in different locations alignment between the two (say left tweeter & midbass) cannot be corrected UNLESS you go fully active. I guess the best way to align is to start with an average distance and then play with it from there. Nevermind I can answer no problem. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 49 Registered: Oct-11 | Thanks. As you mentioned before to set 2 channels to high pass at 60hz and sub low pass at 60hz. What would be a good slope to set my xover 12 or 24db/oct? |
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Silver Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 892 Registered: May-09 | I guess the 24 db/octave but as with everything try both. I running fully active you would set the midbass to tweeter crossover to 12 db/octave. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1071 Registered: May-09 | Ok Carlos, sorry about the mishap with the RF DSP, and WOW on the MS-8, so will look into it and provide some opinions, to start you may want to have this: MS-8 Manual As most signal processors this is easy to setup, very neat the small LCD screen and the remote, much better user interface. HoPe you didn't pay retail for it! It has a number of integrated power amplifiers which could be used for tweeters (20-30W) and use your amplifier for mids and the back speakers if you still want that. It also features self setup with the use of a mcrophone, high level inputs and many other things. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 50 Registered: Oct-11 | Yes, I got it cheaper on sonic electronix and free shipping. Thanks for the manual, you're the best. Checked out the manual and it mentioned this. NOTE: You can power some of the system's speakers by the MS-8's amplifiers and some by outboard amplifiers, but you should use only one connection type per output. For example, output channel 1 may use the MS-8's amplifier OR an outboard amplifier, but not both. Does this mean, I can wire it any way I want it. As long as I choose wether to use an aftermarket amp or the MS-8 amp for each channel, but not both on one channel. Which would be a better option? Option: 1 channel 1 and 2 - use MS-8 amp, to left and right tweeters channel 3 and 4 - to aftermarket amp, to front left and right mid/woofer channel 5 and 6 - to aftermarket amp, to rear left and right coaxial speakers channel 7 - to amplified sub Option 2: channel 1 and 2 - to aftermarket amp, to left and right tweeters channel 3 and 4 - to aftermarket amp, to left and right mid/woofer channel 5 and 6 - use MS-8 amp, to left and right rear coaxial speakers channel 7 - to amplified sub |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1081 Registered: May-09 | Well the built-in amplifiers the MS-8 has do not have the power for the Morel midbass driver so that has to go through your power amplifier, the tweeter can be sourced with the 20-30W the MS-8 can provide, also the coaxes would be better off sourced bt the clarion, With option 2 the coaxes would be getting insufficient power most likely. Both configurations can work but option 1 would make sense to me on a first look. With that many channels the MS-8 seems to be appropriate for a 7.1 channel HT system and a big screen LCD screen would be suitable, that thing is absolutely overkill... The auto setup may take a lot of guesswork on getting that flat SQ response in your car as a starting point. Also I would be looking at SQ midbass drivers instead of coaxials but not everyone agrees on leaving a non full range rear fill... |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 51 Registered: Oct-11 | Thanks for the advice. So option 1 for my set-up. Question, will it be safe not using the passive x-over for my component speakers? What x-over setting would you suggest? In the MS-8 manual they suggest 3500hz mid/high cut -off at 24 db slop. Any suggestions? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1087 Registered: May-09 | If you check the specs for your component speakers you will find that the passive crossover is set at 3800Hz with 6dB/Octave rollof, I recommend to set the MS-8 likewise for a starting point and there is no problem using your components without the passive crossover just making sure the right frecuency range is given to each speaker. for the midbass to basstube use 60Hz@24 dB/Octave. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 52 Registered: Oct-11 | OK, now I'll just to have to wait till it gets here. Will update you if I got it installed. Thanks again. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1092 Registered: May-09 | Ok Carlos, it's going to be easy since the thing sets itself up just placing the mike around your seat.... and happy holidays! |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 53 Registered: Oct-11 | Merry christmas and a Happy happy new year!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 54 Registered: Oct-11 | Would it be best to have a center channel? I'm looking at this unit Pioneer TS-CX7 2-1/4" 2.25" Full Range Center Channel Car Speaker. Merry christmas! |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1096 Registered: May-09 | Unfortunately that's a taste question so.. no right answer.. My opinion is that depends on the source, you should put as many speakers as the source recording will support, so if your source is a simple stereo channel set use 2 speakers..but don't quote me on that, as you might have read there is Glasswolf recommending the use of rear installed midbass drivers setup in mono and bandpassed well into the midrange frequencies (overlapping the components frequency range) and claiming improvements in the soundstage... It's been said that there are no definitive rules on audio... so as long as your credit is good you can always try! Merry christmas to you! |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 55 Registered: Oct-11 | Hi Joe, Finally got the MS-8 installed and I'm very happy. Everything sounded clear and crisp. Good thing I had a chance to return the RF360. At first I was kinda worried because it sounded really bad, but it was my fault, front and rear speakers where on the wrong jacks of the amplifier. Now it sounds really sweet. But I have a question regarding the amplifiers gain control. In the MS-8 manual it did not mention anything about adjusting the amps gain so i left it at minimum gain, I assume the DSP will take care of that. What do you think? Should I set it to min, mid or high? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1152 Registered: May-09 | Hi Carlos, good to hear that you liked it after all, regarding to your question if the gain range of the amp is 0.5 to 5.5V then halfways should be expecting a 2.95V signal since the MS-8 can deliver 2.5V if I read right then it can't clip the amp set that way, so I think that would be a good guess to set your gain. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 56 Registered: Oct-11 | Thanks will try it out. How about the sub woofer's gain? At zero gain it seems to strong for me. Thanks so much Joe, cant count the number of times i said thank you. Hope one of this days i can return the favor. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1157 Registered: May-09 | Seems like the output of the MS-8 to that particular channel may be too high, if not well, leave it at minimum I guess... need to return no favors....nevermind about that. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 57 Registered: Oct-11 | Its better with the center channel speakers. I was able to get the Jensen speakers and it fits well on the dash. With the tweeters I used the 24dB slope. For me, it separates more the tiny details of the sound. And for the sub at 12dB at minimum gain, even lowered the bass on the MS-8. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1161 Registered: May-09 | As you can see there are no rules in audio, I can sort of explain why you didn't need a hi-slope to the bass tube, low diameter subs "blend-in" nicely with components specially if you are not playing them loud, usually a big sub playing very loud will have that problem. Also Glasswolf one of our more experienced users suggested in an earlier thread setting up midbass drivers in mono but on the back and sharing frequency range with the comps, He also claimed great effect on the soundstage. So again one can never know... |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 58 Registered: Oct-11 | Hi joe, Been happy with my MS-8. So far everything is sounding great. But I'm curious about changing my tweeters to a higher model of the morel, like the MT-22. You think it would make a big difference compared to the maximo tweeters? Will it be OK if i use the maximo mid/woofer with the MT-22? And will the MS-8 pre-amp 20 watts be enough to play the MT-22 tweets? Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1233 Registered: May-09 | Hi Carlos, at the point you are now you can go for any brand of tweeter you may want, certainly 30W will suffice for most tweeters. Go to www.partsexpress.com, they have exotic tweeters well beyond the sound quality of entry level speakers, just make sure that the response of the tweeter overlaps the one of the midbass so you are able to play a bit with the crossover frequencies. The type of tweeter you want depend on your taste and budget. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 59 Registered: Oct-11 | Checked the specs of the MS-8 and its only CEA 18 watts @ 4ohms and 30 watts at 2ohms. That means i need to find a tweeter rated 2 ohms or 4ohms. Morel MT-22 is 3.8- 4ohms and MT-23 is 6 ohms. This means i should stay away from the MT-23 unless I get an amplifier for it. What do you suggest? Is 18 watts of power enough? If possible I dont want to add another amplifier since its getting crowded in the car and wires are getting thicker. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1238 Registered: May-09 | 18W will be enough in most cases, you could even wire in parallel 2 4 ohm rated tweeters to get a 2 ohm load, It seems to me that if a Morel branded tweeter is not all that you expected you should look at alternatives. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 60 Registered: Oct-11 | Any suggestions on the kind and model of the tweeter? Just not to expensive. I like the morels because of the easy mounting and they sound good to me. Other than that, I really dont have any ideas or experience on how the other tweeter would sound. I base it more on the reviews in the internet and the cash I have. Heard a couple of brands from freinds but I really cant appreciate it that much because of how they set up their cars. They call it loud and clear but to me its all loud and all bass you really cant hear the details of the music. Thanks Joe |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1242 Registered: May-09 | Well.. http://www.amazon.com/Supremo-Piccolo-Exotic-Inverted-Tweeters/dp/B0048J6Q2K Or you could try some ScanSpeak illuminators, or some stuff from Dynaudio. Neat stuff..truly SQ but $$$.. most of the time you can't have it both ways. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 61 Registered: Oct-11 | Wow! this are really nice speakers but maybe its way to much for my budget. Or i should forget about it for the mean time and try to save more money. Will try to inquire first to see how much they really cost. The morel piccolo is to much for me. The scanspeak I'm interested with the Illuminator D3004/6600-00 AirCirc Tweeter Textile Dome. For dynaudio need to check the price not much of a choice here but the MD-102. My problem with this tweeters is I need to put a hole in the doors. Do you have other options that I could just make them sit on the dash like the morel MT-12, 22 and 23? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1245 Registered: May-09 | That sort of gear is not worth much if the rest of the system can't truly pair up, would need SQ amps, 24/96 DACs player and source material to match...SQ is a sick expensive hobby.. small increments will wear you down and costs more on the long run.. the other thing as I have said before is that taste is in the middle of everything, kind of hard to buy stuff that expensive to find that it was not what you were looking for... kind of harder to recommend for the same reason! |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 62 Registered: Oct-11 | Ok, that sounds a bit to expensive, complicated and advance for me. What component speaker would you recommend that is more or less than $500. I just want a good midrange value component speakers that I could enjoy listening and not the wife yelling at me. There I could get the best sound quality. I'll just have to dream about the high end amplifiers and speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1263 Registered: May-09 | Some common commercial high end brands with not so high end lines are: Focal, Rainbow, DLS, CDT besides Morel. However they sound different.. sooo... which will you like? Got to listen to their stuff somewhere to make your mind about that. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 63 Registered: Oct-11 | What do you think of boston acoustics SPZ60?On ebay i can get it at $600+ but the other brands are to much for me.It has good reviews and has a lot of tweeter mounting options. Problem is its needs 150 watts rms and I only have 50 watts in my amp (rockford fosgate P400-4). Can I use this amp or I need a bigger wattage amp? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1266 Registered: May-09 | Check out these: For Rainbow: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=rainbow+speakers&_sacat=0&_odkw=rainbow&_osa cat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 For Focal: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Focal+speakers&_sacat=0&_odkw=rainbow+speake rs&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 There is stuff from them for cheap, I would not put Boston ahead those brands for a minute (Morel included) at least equally priced stuff but who knows how will those sound to you. My advise is to listen before you buy there must be a way for you to have a chance to listen somewhere. Focal are very revealing, unforgiving to recording defects, Rainbow are very accurate sounding but laid back in the way of Dynaudio or DLS.. usually the guy who like Focal will not like Rainbow an vice.. I believe that buying expensive speakers without listening to them is really a bad idea.. and although many people disagree the amp and source are equally important. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 64 Registered: Oct-11 | considering I'm using my stock head unit, JBL MS-8 and the Rockford fosgate punch P400-4. What price range of speakers would you advice me to get $300-500 or 500-700 dollars? Otherwise, even if I have the most expensive speakers and my source unit and amp is not that good then it will be useless. I'm looking at this items: http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOCAL-K2-POWER-165-KR-6-5-COMPONENT-SPEAKERS-165KR-/2807 91392226?pt=Car_Speakers&hash=item4160789fe2 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CS-265P-VANADIUM-RAINBOW-6-5-PROFI-COMPONENT-SPEAKERS-MA DE-GERMANY-/130420711025?pt=Car_Speakers&hash=item1e5dae1e71#ht_6739wt_954 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Morel-Hybrid-Ovation-6-II-6-2Way-Component-Speakers-/250 992282751?pt=Car_Speakers&hash=item3a704e4c7f#ht_7083wt_1026 |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1270 Registered: May-09 | That is correct is not worth it to spend more than $500 if at all, also note that you may not know what can your current Morel speakers are capable of if your source signal is not that clean. All those speakers you list should be excellent but sound very different as I have commented. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 65 Registered: Oct-11 | Did some research on component speakers that I think my RF punch 400p can handle. Here are my choices: 1. Pioneer TS-C720PRS 2. Rainbow SLC/SLX 265 3. Image dynamics CTX 65CS 4. DLS MS6A/R6A 5. Focal 165VB Which do you think is the best among the 5 speakers? Wish i could listen to them before buying. But sad to say, i have no way of doing that. So I would just take your advise, since you have been so patient and helpful with me from the very start. Thanks! Checked out: 1. Dynaudio esotec 242GT - would be the best pick but its to expensive for me. 2. Hertz, CDT and morel are power hungry and I don't have that enough wattage to power their mid entry level speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 66 Registered: Oct-11 | forgot this one Zapco i-6.2 |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1315 Registered: May-09 | Ok Carlos I will just give you an idea on how each sound: 1. Pioneer TS-C720PRS Rather dull highs, strong midbass. 2. Rainbow SLC/SLX 265 Smooth, tonally accurate, very detailed 3. Image dynamics CTX 65CS Contact alonzoub just changed his damaged rainbows for IDs 4. DLS MS6A/R6A Sweet and laid back 5. Focal 165VB Sharp high, very clean sounding but unforgiving, many poeple gets annoyed because of this. Which one is better is a question I can't answer, there are guys that will prefer cheap 150 speakers than $8000 ones, BTW, I just know Zapco amps and are excellent but not their speakers..unhappily. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 67 Registered: Oct-11 | Thanks Joe, Still hard to decide. I should narrow down my choices to Rainbow, DLS and maybe Image dynamics. Will do more research, thanks again. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 68 Registered: Oct-11 | Hi joe, Still having problems which component to get. What do you think of this component for SQ? http://www.xprogram.com/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_670. Its RMS rate is 80 watts but sensitivity is 86db,a bit low. You think my RF punch 50x4 can play this speakers sufficiently? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1364 Registered: May-09 | Hi Carlos I have heard other series from them, not to say they are not ok but just not know enough to recommend, as before it really doesn't change much if I had. I know you don't have much access to listening to equipment but your ears are the only thing you can really trust. Sorry I can't really help you better. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 69 Registered: Oct-11 | Finally decided and got this speakers. ES-620 - CDT Audio EuroSport 6.5, hope this are OK speakers. Made some research and all feedbacks are good. Gave woofersect different kinds of component speaker options (brands and models) and they recommended this. What do you think of this system? Any suggestions on my crossover setting on the MS-8 |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1376 Registered: May-09 | CDT is good audio brand, I have liked other kevlar speakers in the past very clean and these are not really entry level so will do better than your current speakers I guess.. but unless driven by true SQ electronics don't know how much of an improvement you will notice, also it seems that are power rated too high for the ms-8 amps. See how it goes, I really hope well since your system is getting really expensive now. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 70 Registered: Oct-11 | Yes, it seems that are power rated to high for the MS-8 and amps. But I talked to the guy at woofersect over the phone and explained to him my system and that, it will only be driven by a 50x4 amp but will be running full active with the use of an MS-8. But he assured me that it will be Ok, his reason is I will be running it full active and bi- amplifing it with the pre-amp of the MS-8. Unless, he just wants me to buy another amp after realizing that the system is under powered. I just hope it wont harm the speakers. What would you suggest? Should I bridge the amp to power the component speakers with 200 watts x 2@ 4 ohms and use the passive x-overs. Or power the mid-woofers with 200 watts, power the tweeters and the rear coaxial speakers with 19 watts from the MS-8 so I could retain running them full active. What do you think? Thanks Joe. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1382 Registered: May-09 | No it will not harm the speakers, he told you that it will work and it wil work, but probably not loud enough.. you know sellers. I think you are familiar with the configurations, is a question of trying all of them, properly powered and correctly crossed fully active is way better but I don't really think of rockford fosgate as a SQ amp so is hard to tell.. to me the obvious weak link is your stock deck, I guess that if it needs to be there you shoukd have a second source like a high end portable music player. |
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Bronze Member Username: ChofilenaIloilo, Iloilo Philippines Post Number: 71 Registered: Oct-11 | What is a portable music player, will an ipod work? Is ARC or cadence a SQ amp? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe1234Post Number: 1383 Registered: May-09 | Hifiman HM-801 24/96 DAC!! I am guessing it would match a high end HU...ipod is almost junk for SQ but if you can borrow it from someone likely will make some diffeence. Cowon also does some neat stuff. Something that supports flac, ape or wav(inefficient) formats at least. For amps, Mcintosh |
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